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More Controlled Parking Restrictions for Charlton
Comments
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It'll make it harder for some, no doubt. Getting to the game might mean parking up where you can and getting a bus or Uber to the ground, I don't know.0
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if they made them all 5 hour wait, then no problem
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Hornfair Road area to get much worse thenclive said:
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If this had come up in the first quarter of the season it would have probably been enough to finally stop me doing what had become an utter chore. Now, it's a pain, but time to look for plan B.
Jacko out!1 -
Something that's been bugging me. I normally park over to the west past the station
When I was walking up for the Rotherham game one of the stewards on the corner of Charlton church lane/flloyd told someone to try parking in a factory along the road. He was pointing down Delafield. Anyone know where this factory is?
I know we used to park in that a factory on Victoria away years ago for a few £ but that's gone and is housing now. What was he on about?0 -
Tax payers built the roads that cyclists and drivers use and are paying for the building of cycle paths and lanes. Both inefficient methods at moving people into towns and cities.Cardinal Sin said:
It's still a Road Tax however much you dislike the name.Rothko said:
It’s also true, there’s a tax on emissions that internal combustion engines produce, and it goes in to general taxation, and not ring fenced for use on the transport infrastructure.Cardinal Sin said:
Another cyclist trope.Rothko said:
Is this when we have to explain to a really thick person that there is no such thing as road taxgolfaddick said:
Pay £150 a year on "bike tax" and you're welcome to it. Until then, all road users should have equal rights. Crazy to have miles of empty lanes whilst cars are crammed into just 1 lane.Leeds_Addick said:
Yeah that’s a perfect example of what’s great about the cycle lanes. I wouldn’t fancy cycling along there without the segregation but now I have a speedy, safe way to get to Charlton.Cardinal Sin said:
This is why....Leeds_Addick said:
I don’t see how the cycleways are disastrous? It’s opened up a lot of the local area to me where otherwise I’d have felt unsafe cycling.Cardinal Sin said:
This isn't about Charlton Station - that's part of the justification. Parking is not really a problem on non-football Saturdays but including them until 6.30pm will give the Council a revenue bonus and catch home games. Not ok to park on a Saturday, unless you use a pay-to-park space - then it's fine. It is about hitting motorists and opening new lines of revenue. If not, why do owners of second cars have to pay double? Why do people with working vehicles (vans etc) have to pay £428 - they are still only occupying a vehicle space? This is the Council's car-hating elite at work and in conjunction with TfL's disastrous Cycleways. The Silvertown Tunnel is a crazy decision and goes against all of the Mayor and the Council's policies and ethics on climate change and local pollution. However, it gives them the justification to toll both the Silvertown and the Blackwall Tunnels. They will tell us that these tolls will only be in place until they have recovered the cost of the tunnel build but we all know what happens once they are in place - look at Dartford (tunnel and bridge) where the cost was repaid in 2003. They rake in close to £100m a year now. That could have paid for the new Silvertown Tunnel years ago.Rothko said:The CPZ is being brought in as those roads are being used as car parks for Charlton Station and North Greenwich, not to spite people who think getting the train a few times on a Saturday
Motorists in south-east London will soon live with the worst traffic congestion and pollution in the country (if we don't already) and also be taxed the most for the cheek of having a car - Congestion Charge, Ultra Low Emission Zone charges, Tunnel Tolls and Resident Parking charges and restrictions. All whilst our arterial roads have been restricted to single-file, often idling, queueing traffic to accommodate a tiny number of patronising cyclists (I have two road bikes).
Before anyone gets confused, I understand why we need to address climate change and support great public transport. Make it work really well and make it cheap, then I will consider my car usage seriously. In the meantime it's just another cynical and continuing attack on motorists.I used to drive to the valley but since the cycleway along trafalgar road opened I’m now cycling. Same goes for some of my journeys to West Greenwich and Blackheath.I get that it’s challenging to use public transport for those coming from Kent/Bexley but for those living closer to the valley around Greenwich, driving is completely unnecessary.
or is that a trope as well. Just for the record I drive a car, and at the moment I pay for the emissions that come from it.
The transport infrastructure is not joined up properly, expensive and inefficient and it needs sorting quicklyEbbsfleet style large car parks that are free, and fast direct trains into cities and between cities. 60 miles, 60 minutes for £6 or similar should be the aim. Buses that run from towns and villages that arrive 10 minutes before trains depart, that are required to wait for a train if delayed.
Where Tubes can’t run we should have trams. Tiny electric cars, bikes and scooters available to rent to fill in the gaps alongside busses and taxis.
In my opinion the only way to start breaking down the need for the car is to make the alternative attractive. They are trying to make it attractive by making the life of a motorist a misery, but the fact is that the alternative is not in place yet. Or even in planning.3 -
Sorted for the Ipswich game - note the extra space for two tartan blankets and a large thermos of Bovril.
Not sure if I can use this on the M2 though.
7 -
There is a clue to the problem with making public transport attractive. It is in the name: Public Transport.Redrobo said:
Tax payers built the roads that cyclists and drivers use and are paying for the building of cycle paths and lanes. Both inefficient methods at moving people into towns and cities.Cardinal Sin said:
It's still a Road Tax however much you dislike the name.Rothko said:
It’s also true, there’s a tax on emissions that internal combustion engines produce, and it goes in to general taxation, and not ring fenced for use on the transport infrastructure.Cardinal Sin said:
Another cyclist trope.Rothko said:
Is this when we have to explain to a really thick person that there is no such thing as road taxgolfaddick said:
Pay £150 a year on "bike tax" and you're welcome to it. Until then, all road users should have equal rights. Crazy to have miles of empty lanes whilst cars are crammed into just 1 lane.Leeds_Addick said:
Yeah that’s a perfect example of what’s great about the cycle lanes. I wouldn’t fancy cycling along there without the segregation but now I have a speedy, safe way to get to Charlton.Cardinal Sin said:
This is why....Leeds_Addick said:
I don’t see how the cycleways are disastrous? It’s opened up a lot of the local area to me where otherwise I’d have felt unsafe cycling.Cardinal Sin said:
This isn't about Charlton Station - that's part of the justification. Parking is not really a problem on non-football Saturdays but including them until 6.30pm will give the Council a revenue bonus and catch home games. Not ok to park on a Saturday, unless you use a pay-to-park space - then it's fine. It is about hitting motorists and opening new lines of revenue. If not, why do owners of second cars have to pay double? Why do people with working vehicles (vans etc) have to pay £428 - they are still only occupying a vehicle space? This is the Council's car-hating elite at work and in conjunction with TfL's disastrous Cycleways. The Silvertown Tunnel is a crazy decision and goes against all of the Mayor and the Council's policies and ethics on climate change and local pollution. However, it gives them the justification to toll both the Silvertown and the Blackwall Tunnels. They will tell us that these tolls will only be in place until they have recovered the cost of the tunnel build but we all know what happens once they are in place - look at Dartford (tunnel and bridge) where the cost was repaid in 2003. They rake in close to £100m a year now. That could have paid for the new Silvertown Tunnel years ago.Rothko said:The CPZ is being brought in as those roads are being used as car parks for Charlton Station and North Greenwich, not to spite people who think getting the train a few times on a Saturday
Motorists in south-east London will soon live with the worst traffic congestion and pollution in the country (if we don't already) and also be taxed the most for the cheek of having a car - Congestion Charge, Ultra Low Emission Zone charges, Tunnel Tolls and Resident Parking charges and restrictions. All whilst our arterial roads have been restricted to single-file, often idling, queueing traffic to accommodate a tiny number of patronising cyclists (I have two road bikes).
Before anyone gets confused, I understand why we need to address climate change and support great public transport. Make it work really well and make it cheap, then I will consider my car usage seriously. In the meantime it's just another cynical and continuing attack on motorists.I used to drive to the valley but since the cycleway along trafalgar road opened I’m now cycling. Same goes for some of my journeys to West Greenwich and Blackheath.I get that it’s challenging to use public transport for those coming from Kent/Bexley but for those living closer to the valley around Greenwich, driving is completely unnecessary.
or is that a trope as well. Just for the record I drive a car, and at the moment I pay for the emissions that come from it.
The transport infrastructure is not joined up properly, expensive and inefficient and it needs sorting quicklyEbbsfleet style large car parks that are free, and fast direct trains into cities and between cities. 60 miles, 60 minutes for £6 or similar should be the aim. Buses that run from towns and villages that arrive 10 minutes before trains depart, that are required to wait for a train if delayed.
Where Tubes can’t run we should have trams. Tiny electric cars, bikes and scooters available to rent to fill in the gaps alongside busses and taxis.
In my opinion the only way to start breaking down the need for the car is to make the alternative attractive. They are trying to make it attractive by making the life of a motorist a misery, but the fact is that the alternative is not in place yet. Or even in planning.
By definition, public transport has members of the public on it. They are generally, unpleasant, smelly (fag stench, dodgy burgers, body odour, etc, etc), unstable, aggressive, violent, too close, drunk, covered in vomit, reading newspapers that are too large, listening to music that is too loud, trying to dodge fares, or, even worse, trying to strike up a conversation with you.
By comparison a car, even with the everyday traffic problems is a haven of tranquillity, an oasis of calm.9 - Sponsored links:
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Well obviously we will be in cars!cafcfan said:
There is a clue to the problem with making public transport attractive. It is in the name: Public Transport.Redrobo said:
Tax payers built the roads that cyclists and drivers use and are paying for the building of cycle paths and lanes. Both inefficient methods at moving people into towns and cities.Cardinal Sin said:
It's still a Road Tax however much you dislike the name.Rothko said:
It’s also true, there’s a tax on emissions that internal combustion engines produce, and it goes in to general taxation, and not ring fenced for use on the transport infrastructure.Cardinal Sin said:
Another cyclist trope.Rothko said:
Is this when we have to explain to a really thick person that there is no such thing as road taxgolfaddick said:
Pay £150 a year on "bike tax" and you're welcome to it. Until then, all road users should have equal rights. Crazy to have miles of empty lanes whilst cars are crammed into just 1 lane.Leeds_Addick said:
Yeah that’s a perfect example of what’s great about the cycle lanes. I wouldn’t fancy cycling along there without the segregation but now I have a speedy, safe way to get to Charlton.Cardinal Sin said:
This is why....Leeds_Addick said:
I don’t see how the cycleways are disastrous? It’s opened up a lot of the local area to me where otherwise I’d have felt unsafe cycling.Cardinal Sin said:
This isn't about Charlton Station - that's part of the justification. Parking is not really a problem on non-football Saturdays but including them until 6.30pm will give the Council a revenue bonus and catch home games. Not ok to park on a Saturday, unless you use a pay-to-park space - then it's fine. It is about hitting motorists and opening new lines of revenue. If not, why do owners of second cars have to pay double? Why do people with working vehicles (vans etc) have to pay £428 - they are still only occupying a vehicle space? This is the Council's car-hating elite at work and in conjunction with TfL's disastrous Cycleways. The Silvertown Tunnel is a crazy decision and goes against all of the Mayor and the Council's policies and ethics on climate change and local pollution. However, it gives them the justification to toll both the Silvertown and the Blackwall Tunnels. They will tell us that these tolls will only be in place until they have recovered the cost of the tunnel build but we all know what happens once they are in place - look at Dartford (tunnel and bridge) where the cost was repaid in 2003. They rake in close to £100m a year now. That could have paid for the new Silvertown Tunnel years ago.Rothko said:The CPZ is being brought in as those roads are being used as car parks for Charlton Station and North Greenwich, not to spite people who think getting the train a few times on a Saturday
Motorists in south-east London will soon live with the worst traffic congestion and pollution in the country (if we don't already) and also be taxed the most for the cheek of having a car - Congestion Charge, Ultra Low Emission Zone charges, Tunnel Tolls and Resident Parking charges and restrictions. All whilst our arterial roads have been restricted to single-file, often idling, queueing traffic to accommodate a tiny number of patronising cyclists (I have two road bikes).
Before anyone gets confused, I understand why we need to address climate change and support great public transport. Make it work really well and make it cheap, then I will consider my car usage seriously. In the meantime it's just another cynical and continuing attack on motorists.I used to drive to the valley but since the cycleway along trafalgar road opened I’m now cycling. Same goes for some of my journeys to West Greenwich and Blackheath.I get that it’s challenging to use public transport for those coming from Kent/Bexley but for those living closer to the valley around Greenwich, driving is completely unnecessary.
or is that a trope as well. Just for the record I drive a car, and at the moment I pay for the emissions that come from it.
The transport infrastructure is not joined up properly, expensive and inefficient and it needs sorting quicklyEbbsfleet style large car parks that are free, and fast direct trains into cities and between cities. 60 miles, 60 minutes for £6 or similar should be the aim. Buses that run from towns and villages that arrive 10 minutes before trains depart, that are required to wait for a train if delayed.
Where Tubes can’t run we should have trams. Tiny electric cars, bikes and scooters available to rent to fill in the gaps alongside busses and taxis.
In my opinion the only way to start breaking down the need for the car is to make the alternative attractive. They are trying to make it attractive by making the life of a motorist a misery, but the fact is that the alternative is not in place yet. Or even in planning.
By definition, public transport has members of the public on it. They are generally, unpleasant, smelly (fag stench, dodgy burgers, body odour, etc, etc), unstable, aggressive, violent, too close, drunk, covered in vomit, reading newspapers that are too large, listening to music that is too loud, trying to dodge fares, or, even worse, trying to strike up a conversation with you.
By comparison a car, even with the everyday traffic problems is a haven of tranquillity, an oasis of calm.0 -
Road maintenance is paid from general taxes. The motorists contribution is insignificant. If roads were maintained from a tax on cars, lorries etc no one would be able to afford a car except the very well off.golfaddick said:
Yep, probably more like it.Addickted said:
How about £150 a year insurance to use a cycle lane and a compulsory 'mot' to ensure your cycle is roadworthy?Rothko said:And there isn’t a car tax or road tax, and if it’s a straight read across, a zero emissions car pays the grand total of £0
Call it what you like.....road tax, car tax, emissions tax but I know cyclists dont pay it.0 -
I assume you would be happy to scrap car tax then?iainment said:
Road maintenance is paid from general taxes. The motorists contribution is insignificant. If roads were maintained from a tax on cars, lorries etc no one would be able to afford a car except the very well off.golfaddick said:
Yep, probably more like it.Addickted said:
How about £150 a year insurance to use a cycle lane and a compulsory 'mot' to ensure your cycle is roadworthy?Rothko said:And there isn’t a car tax or road tax, and if it’s a straight read across, a zero emissions car pays the grand total of £0
Call it what you like.....road tax, car tax, emissions tax but I know cyclists dont pay it.And VAT on cars?
And car benefit tax?
And VAT on petrol?
And VAT on car parts and repairs?
The fact is the motor industry is very lucrative to the government in many ways: and the whole of the country benefits from it.
You need to get off your bike and look at the bigger picture. As earthlings we need people to use cars less. A push bike really is not the answer, and neither is parking restrictions around train stations if we want people to use trains.3 -
Even so the taxes on motoring don’t cover anything near the cost of roads.Redrobo said:
I assume you would be happy to scrap car tax then?iainment said:
Road maintenance is paid from general taxes. The motorists contribution is insignificant. If roads were maintained from a tax on cars, lorries etc no one would be able to afford a car except the very well off.golfaddick said:
Yep, probably more like it.Addickted said:
How about £150 a year insurance to use a cycle lane and a compulsory 'mot' to ensure your cycle is roadworthy?Rothko said:And there isn’t a car tax or road tax, and if it’s a straight read across, a zero emissions car pays the grand total of £0
Call it what you like.....road tax, car tax, emissions tax but I know cyclists dont pay it.And VAT on cars?
And car benefit tax?
And VAT on petrol?
And VAT on car parts and repairs?
The fact is the motor industry is very lucrative to the government in many ways: and the whole of the country benefits from it.
You need to get off your bike and look at the bigger picture. As earthlings we need people to use cars less. A push bike really is not the answer, and neither is parking restrictions around train stations if we want people to use trains.
0 -
Or they could just estimate over a couple of games roughly how many empty spaces they have, (let's say for arguments sake it's 200), then put a security guard on the gate the following game, he has 200 parking vouchers and once they're gone that's it.SoundAsa£ said:
The same can be said for Makros, their carpark is enormous.sammy391 said:Never understand why parking at the curry’s/Pc World had never been denied idea used/extended to football fans!?
masses of car parking spaces unused (and even a lower section completely empty) surely would be gobbled up even at £5 a popI have never seen it anywhere near full even on match days and meet ups for CL vengeance bouts.
Could they not be encouraged to cone off a certain amount on match days and charge £5 a pop…..they’d clean up.1 -
That is a very blinkered way of looking at the cost of and the contribution towards our roads.iainment said:
Even so the taxes on motoring don’t cover anything near the cost of roads.Redrobo said:
I assume you would be happy to scrap car tax then?iainment said:
Road maintenance is paid from general taxes. The motorists contribution is insignificant. If roads were maintained from a tax on cars, lorries etc no one would be able to afford a car except the very well off.golfaddick said:
Yep, probably more like it.Addickted said:
How about £150 a year insurance to use a cycle lane and a compulsory 'mot' to ensure your cycle is roadworthy?Rothko said:And there isn’t a car tax or road tax, and if it’s a straight read across, a zero emissions car pays the grand total of £0
Call it what you like.....road tax, car tax, emissions tax but I know cyclists dont pay it.And VAT on cars?
And car benefit tax?
And VAT on petrol?
And VAT on car parts and repairs?
The fact is the motor industry is very lucrative to the government in many ways: and the whole of the country benefits from it.
You need to get off your bike and look at the bigger picture. As earthlings we need people to use cars less. A push bike really is not the answer, and neither is parking restrictions around train stations if we want people to use trains.A better way of looking at it is to ask yourself the question as to what would be the consequences of not having roads?Savings you make with a good road network reduce costs of building and maintaining them.
It is why man started building tracks in the first place and why the Romans took them to a new level. It is why we have motorways, it is why we should have good train services. It saves time and money. You have to factor that in.0 -
They Want people to use trains.Yet the Prevent people from getting to train stations
makes sense0 -
The sooner we move to a bespoke stadium in Kent with 5000 parking spaces the better….
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You are right and he's wrong. There is no factory left where you can park.carly burn said:Something that's been bugging me. I normally park over to the west past the station
When I was walking up for the Rotherham game one of the stewards on the corner of Charlton church lane/flloyd told someone to try parking in a factory along the road. He was pointing down Delafield. Anyone know where this factory is?
I know we used to park in that a factory on Victoria away years ago for a few £ but that's gone and is housing now. What was he on about?
0 -
286 to ElthamAddictedoldgit said:Live in Sidcup & been forced to abandon my old diesel car & switch to the railway by the ULEZ restrictions.
I qualify for the freedom pass.
So been reading this thread with a smug smile getting bigger & biggerSaid smile disappeared when it was pointed out, no trains on Boxing day, is that correct?
161 to Charlton.0 - Sponsored links:
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That is so wrong I scarcely know where to start.iainment said:
Even so the taxes on motoring don’t cover anything near the cost of roads.Redrobo said:
I assume you would be happy to scrap car tax then?iainment said:
Road maintenance is paid from general taxes. The motorists contribution is insignificant. If roads were maintained from a tax on cars, lorries etc no one would be able to afford a car except the very well off.golfaddick said:
Yep, probably more like it.Addickted said:
How about £150 a year insurance to use a cycle lane and a compulsory 'mot' to ensure your cycle is roadworthy?Rothko said:And there isn’t a car tax or road tax, and if it’s a straight read across, a zero emissions car pays the grand total of £0
Call it what you like.....road tax, car tax, emissions tax but I know cyclists dont pay it.And VAT on cars?
And car benefit tax?
And VAT on petrol?
And VAT on car parts and repairs?
The fact is the motor industry is very lucrative to the government in many ways: and the whole of the country benefits from it.
You need to get off your bike and look at the bigger picture. As earthlings we need people to use cars less. A push bike really is not the answer, and neither is parking restrictions around train stations if we want people to use trains.
In 2019/20, VED generated around £7.0 billion and Fuel Duty about £27.6 billion. That's before you even take account of all the other motoring taxes.
In 2019/20, about £10.9 billion was spent on national and local roads in the United Kingdom.
It's been known for years that motoring taxes far exceed the amount that is spent on roads. You can argue that that is a good thing as it helps pay for our hospitals, schools etc but don't try and twist the fact that taxes on motoring don't cover the cost of roads.6 -
All well and good, but are we not away to Wimbledon on boxing day?Baldybonce said:
286 to ElthamAddictedoldgit said:Live in Sidcup & been forced to abandon my old diesel car & switch to the railway by the ULEZ restrictions.
I qualify for the freedom pass.
So been reading this thread with a smug smile getting bigger & biggerSaid smile disappeared when it was pointed out, no trains on Boxing day, is that correct?
161 to Charlton.1 -
Yes, but by definition the spanner’s are normally playing away when Charlton are at home! 😉cafcfan said:
There is a clue to the problem with making public transport attractive. It is in the name: Public Transport.Redrobo said:
Tax payers built the roads that cyclists and drivers use and are paying for the building of cycle paths and lanes. Both inefficient methods at moving people into towns and cities.Cardinal Sin said:
It's still a Road Tax however much you dislike the name.Rothko said:
It’s also true, there’s a tax on emissions that internal combustion engines produce, and it goes in to general taxation, and not ring fenced for use on the transport infrastructure.Cardinal Sin said:
Another cyclist trope.Rothko said:
Is this when we have to explain to a really thick person that there is no such thing as road taxgolfaddick said:
Pay £150 a year on "bike tax" and you're welcome to it. Until then, all road users should have equal rights. Crazy to have miles of empty lanes whilst cars are crammed into just 1 lane.Leeds_Addick said:
Yeah that’s a perfect example of what’s great about the cycle lanes. I wouldn’t fancy cycling along there without the segregation but now I have a speedy, safe way to get to Charlton.Cardinal Sin said:
This is why....Leeds_Addick said:
I don’t see how the cycleways are disastrous? It’s opened up a lot of the local area to me where otherwise I’d have felt unsafe cycling.Cardinal Sin said:
This isn't about Charlton Station - that's part of the justification. Parking is not really a problem on non-football Saturdays but including them until 6.30pm will give the Council a revenue bonus and catch home games. Not ok to park on a Saturday, unless you use a pay-to-park space - then it's fine. It is about hitting motorists and opening new lines of revenue. If not, why do owners of second cars have to pay double? Why do people with working vehicles (vans etc) have to pay £428 - they are still only occupying a vehicle space? This is the Council's car-hating elite at work and in conjunction with TfL's disastrous Cycleways. The Silvertown Tunnel is a crazy decision and goes against all of the Mayor and the Council's policies and ethics on climate change and local pollution. However, it gives them the justification to toll both the Silvertown and the Blackwall Tunnels. They will tell us that these tolls will only be in place until they have recovered the cost of the tunnel build but we all know what happens once they are in place - look at Dartford (tunnel and bridge) where the cost was repaid in 2003. They rake in close to £100m a year now. That could have paid for the new Silvertown Tunnel years ago.Rothko said:The CPZ is being brought in as those roads are being used as car parks for Charlton Station and North Greenwich, not to spite people who think getting the train a few times on a Saturday
Motorists in south-east London will soon live with the worst traffic congestion and pollution in the country (if we don't already) and also be taxed the most for the cheek of having a car - Congestion Charge, Ultra Low Emission Zone charges, Tunnel Tolls and Resident Parking charges and restrictions. All whilst our arterial roads have been restricted to single-file, often idling, queueing traffic to accommodate a tiny number of patronising cyclists (I have two road bikes).
Before anyone gets confused, I understand why we need to address climate change and support great public transport. Make it work really well and make it cheap, then I will consider my car usage seriously. In the meantime it's just another cynical and continuing attack on motorists.I used to drive to the valley but since the cycleway along trafalgar road opened I’m now cycling. Same goes for some of my journeys to West Greenwich and Blackheath.I get that it’s challenging to use public transport for those coming from Kent/Bexley but for those living closer to the valley around Greenwich, driving is completely unnecessary.
or is that a trope as well. Just for the record I drive a car, and at the moment I pay for the emissions that come from it.
The transport infrastructure is not joined up properly, expensive and inefficient and it needs sorting quicklyEbbsfleet style large car parks that are free, and fast direct trains into cities and between cities. 60 miles, 60 minutes for £6 or similar should be the aim. Buses that run from towns and villages that arrive 10 minutes before trains depart, that are required to wait for a train if delayed.
Where Tubes can’t run we should have trams. Tiny electric cars, bikes and scooters available to rent to fill in the gaps alongside busses and taxis.
In my opinion the only way to start breaking down the need for the car is to make the alternative attractive. They are trying to make it attractive by making the life of a motorist a misery, but the fact is that the alternative is not in place yet. Or even in planning.By definition, public transport has members of the public on it. They are generally, unpleasant, smelly (fag stench, dodgy burgers, body odour, etc, etc), unstable, aggressive, violent, too close, drunk, covered in vomit, reading newspapers that are too large, listening to music that is too loud, trying to dodge fares, or, even worse, trying to strike up a conversation with you.
By comparison a car, even with the everyday traffic problems is a haven of tranquillity, an oasis of calm.0 -
In that case, feet up in front of the tele with a mince pie.twiggyaddick said:
All well and good, but are we not away to Wimbledon on boxing day?Baldybonce said:
286 to ElthamAddictedoldgit said:Live in Sidcup & been forced to abandon my old diesel car & switch to the railway by the ULEZ restrictions.
I qualify for the freedom pass.
So been reading this thread with a smug smile getting bigger & biggerSaid smile disappeared when it was pointed out, no trains on Boxing day, is that correct?
161 to Charlton.1 -
An oasis of calm...... Try driving my kids around and see if you still call it thatcafcfan said:
There is a clue to the problem with making public transport attractive. It is in the name: Public Transport.Redrobo said:
Tax payers built the roads that cyclists and drivers use and are paying for the building of cycle paths and lanes. Both inefficient methods at moving people into towns and cities.Cardinal Sin said:
It's still a Road Tax however much you dislike the name.Rothko said:
It’s also true, there’s a tax on emissions that internal combustion engines produce, and it goes in to general taxation, and not ring fenced for use on the transport infrastructure.Cardinal Sin said:
Another cyclist trope.Rothko said:
Is this when we have to explain to a really thick person that there is no such thing as road taxgolfaddick said:
Pay £150 a year on "bike tax" and you're welcome to it. Until then, all road users should have equal rights. Crazy to have miles of empty lanes whilst cars are crammed into just 1 lane.Leeds_Addick said:
Yeah that’s a perfect example of what’s great about the cycle lanes. I wouldn’t fancy cycling along there without the segregation but now I have a speedy, safe way to get to Charlton.Cardinal Sin said:
This is why....Leeds_Addick said:
I don’t see how the cycleways are disastrous? It’s opened up a lot of the local area to me where otherwise I’d have felt unsafe cycling.Cardinal Sin said:
This isn't about Charlton Station - that's part of the justification. Parking is not really a problem on non-football Saturdays but including them until 6.30pm will give the Council a revenue bonus and catch home games. Not ok to park on a Saturday, unless you use a pay-to-park space - then it's fine. It is about hitting motorists and opening new lines of revenue. If not, why do owners of second cars have to pay double? Why do people with working vehicles (vans etc) have to pay £428 - they are still only occupying a vehicle space? This is the Council's car-hating elite at work and in conjunction with TfL's disastrous Cycleways. The Silvertown Tunnel is a crazy decision and goes against all of the Mayor and the Council's policies and ethics on climate change and local pollution. However, it gives them the justification to toll both the Silvertown and the Blackwall Tunnels. They will tell us that these tolls will only be in place until they have recovered the cost of the tunnel build but we all know what happens once they are in place - look at Dartford (tunnel and bridge) where the cost was repaid in 2003. They rake in close to £100m a year now. That could have paid for the new Silvertown Tunnel years ago.Rothko said:The CPZ is being brought in as those roads are being used as car parks for Charlton Station and North Greenwich, not to spite people who think getting the train a few times on a Saturday
Motorists in south-east London will soon live with the worst traffic congestion and pollution in the country (if we don't already) and also be taxed the most for the cheek of having a car - Congestion Charge, Ultra Low Emission Zone charges, Tunnel Tolls and Resident Parking charges and restrictions. All whilst our arterial roads have been restricted to single-file, often idling, queueing traffic to accommodate a tiny number of patronising cyclists (I have two road bikes).
Before anyone gets confused, I understand why we need to address climate change and support great public transport. Make it work really well and make it cheap, then I will consider my car usage seriously. In the meantime it's just another cynical and continuing attack on motorists.I used to drive to the valley but since the cycleway along trafalgar road opened I’m now cycling. Same goes for some of my journeys to West Greenwich and Blackheath.I get that it’s challenging to use public transport for those coming from Kent/Bexley but for those living closer to the valley around Greenwich, driving is completely unnecessary.
or is that a trope as well. Just for the record I drive a car, and at the moment I pay for the emissions that come from it.
The transport infrastructure is not joined up properly, expensive and inefficient and it needs sorting quicklyEbbsfleet style large car parks that are free, and fast direct trains into cities and between cities. 60 miles, 60 minutes for £6 or similar should be the aim. Buses that run from towns and villages that arrive 10 minutes before trains depart, that are required to wait for a train if delayed.
Where Tubes can’t run we should have trams. Tiny electric cars, bikes and scooters available to rent to fill in the gaps alongside busses and taxis.
In my opinion the only way to start breaking down the need for the car is to make the alternative attractive. They are trying to make it attractive by making the life of a motorist a misery, but the fact is that the alternative is not in place yet. Or even in planning.
By definition, public transport has members of the public on it. They are generally, unpleasant, smelly (fag stench, dodgy burgers, body odour, etc, etc), unstable, aggressive, violent, too close, drunk, covered in vomit, reading newspapers that are too large, listening to music that is too loud, trying to dodge fares, or, even worse, trying to strike up a conversation with you.
By comparison a car, even with the everyday traffic problems is a haven of tranquillity, an oasis of calm.0 -
Public transport is generally unreliable, extremely poor value for money and often full of obnoxious people.
People will have paid small fortunes for tickets to Shrewsbury and will now have to undertake a convoluted mission to get to a game. Less than 200 miles away.
Worth reading the Shrewsbury train thread which perfectly underlines why there needs to be massive enhancements to public transport before people will favour it over far more reliable and economical cars unfortunately.4 -
I don’t disagree. We need roads fit for purpose for all sorts of reasons. But car owners who think only they have a right to the road because they pay “Road tax” and think no one else pays anything to the road distort and deflect the argument.Redrobo said:
That is a very blinkered way of looking at the cost of and the contribution towards our roads.iainment said:
Even so the taxes on motoring don’t cover anything near the cost of roads.Redrobo said:
I assume you would be happy to scrap car tax then?iainment said:
Road maintenance is paid from general taxes. The motorists contribution is insignificant. If roads were maintained from a tax on cars, lorries etc no one would be able to afford a car except the very well off.golfaddick said:
Yep, probably more like it.Addickted said:
How about £150 a year insurance to use a cycle lane and a compulsory 'mot' to ensure your cycle is roadworthy?Rothko said:And there isn’t a car tax or road tax, and if it’s a straight read across, a zero emissions car pays the grand total of £0
Call it what you like.....road tax, car tax, emissions tax but I know cyclists dont pay it.And VAT on cars?
And car benefit tax?
And VAT on petrol?
And VAT on car parts and repairs?
The fact is the motor industry is very lucrative to the government in many ways: and the whole of the country benefits from it.
You need to get off your bike and look at the bigger picture. As earthlings we need people to use cars less. A push bike really is not the answer, and neither is parking restrictions around train stations if we want people to use trains.A better way of looking at it is to ask yourself the question as to what would be the consequences of not having roads?Savings you make with a good road network reduce costs of building and maintaining them.
It is why man started building tracks in the first place and why the Romans took them to a new level. It is why we have motorways, it is why we should have good train services. It saves time and money. You have to factor that in.3 -
Earlier in this thread I was picked up for intimating that parking policies were punishing car owners.
I'll defend that point now. Firstly, if the council is making car ownership both more difficult and more expensive, whislt doing nothing to improve public transport or provide viable alternative means of transport then that is punishment pure and simple.
Secondly, the situation is far worse than just alternatives not being provided, alternatives are actively being scrapped, 9% of buses and 18% of tubes. If you make it more difficult to use personal transport whilst public transport is also being cut, then how can it be anything other than a punishment?
https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/25/tube-line-could-be-closed-due-to-tfl-funding-crisis-15665178/
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MrOneLung said:The sooner we move to a bespoke stadium in North Norfolk with 5000 parking spaces the better….
I'm being selfish ...
😉3 -
Those cuts are more to do with this Governments decision to go after TfL and particularly Londoners for voting the wrong way, I get the politics, not the economic damage bringing London down doesrandy andy said:Earlier in this thread I was picked up for intimating that parking policies were punishing car owners.
I'll defend that point now. Firstly, if the council is making car ownership both more difficult and more expensive, whislt doing nothing to improve public transport or provide viable alternative means of transport then that is punishment pure and simple.
Secondly, the situation is far worse than just alternatives not being provided, alternatives are actively being scrapped, 9% of buses and 18% of tubes. If you make it more difficult to use personal transport whilst public transport is also being cut, then how can it be anything other than a punishment?
https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/25/tube-line-could-be-closed-due-to-tfl-funding-crisis-15665178/4
