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How far is our squad off from a promotion challenge/ Championship potential?

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  • Championship football is a very different kettle of fish and I dont think many of our current squad would be anywhere near that level. I can only think of 2 that might be able to cut it there and that is Dobson and perhaps Gilbey. I like Stockley, Lee etc but there is a reason they are here and couldn't get into their previous championship clubs sides. 
    I think the best chance we have is to try and tread water for a couple of years and do whatever we can to keep the youngsters like Mason, Kanu etc until they are ready to step up to the first team. If we let this group of promising young player go we are facing a long while in mediocrity. I'm not blaming TS here by the way he without doubt is the reason we are having this discussion as without him we wouldnt have a club. Tbh if I were him i wouldnt be willing to stump up what's needed to even try and sort this shit out by throwing money at it
  • edited January 2022
    If we stick with the formation (not the problem if we get the squad we need but worth a change on Saturday to mix things up). First player is first choice:

    GK CM Henderson/AMB/Harness - no issue, loan out AMB and Harness if we can, if not can release Henderson

    RCB Clare Deji
    CB Lavelle New - Inniss if he can stay fit, more likely Pearce stays as player/coach
    LCB Famewo / New - don’t see Famewo as an issue but bring in competition to push him. Purrington is also an option

    RWB New DJ - need an attacking wing back with good delivery

    DM Dobson New - genuine competition needed

    CM New Gilbey - need more goals, a better team around him and competition may still get that from Gilbey
    CM New Lee or JFC - need the best playmaking goalscoring midfielder we can find

    LWB New Purrington - need a Wiggins/Doughty type. Purrington valuable for his goals but need a pacey wing back with assists and goals in him as first choice. Bring in two if we move Purrington to LCB

    ST New Washington - need a BWP 20 goal striker
    ST Stockley New - need competitor for Stockley’s role either creative like Yann or quicker like Chuks

    Others Burstow CBT - latter under contract, gives us a winger so we can change formation

    Out - Watson, Gunter, Matthews, Kirk, Souare, Leko, Morgan, Davison, JFC or Lee, Inniss or Pearce
  • A very long way. 
  • The question is now redundant
  • My ideal squad for next season would be something like:

    GK - Mac/AMB (AMB might want to leave so Henderson for another year is fine). 
    RCB - Need a first teamer, someone who can play RB too. Clare and Deji as cover. 
    CB - Lavelle/Pearce
    LCB - Famewo (if we can buy him) and cover who also doubles up as cover for Lavelle in the centre (or Famewo move to the centre). 
    RWB - Competition for DJ
    LWB - Competition for Purrington
    CM - Dobson/JFC/Gilbey/Clare. Another DM to properly cover Dobson. 
    CAM - Competition for Lee if we can get him permanently. 
    STR - Two new ones to compete with Stockley and Washington. 
    CBT as an extra, more luxurious player, with the option to play wingers. 

    That's 8 new signings on top of Famewo and Lee. Probably need to buy 3 of them with 5 on loan or frees. Not sure we'll have the budget for it but I'd sell Morgan, Kirk and Davison to help fund it. 

    Gunter, Matthews, Souare, Inniss, Watson, Morgan, Kirk and Davison should be moved on. 
    Pearce isn't good enough now, so he certainly won't be good enough next season. 

    We don't just need competition for Purrington, DJ and Lee, we need first team starters so they are the back up options. None of them are ultimately good enough to start for a promotion chasing side. I don't get the hype around Lee, genuinely feel that too many people over rate him. He's done nothing for weeks.

    Agree about the players to move on, but i'd keep Inniss as a back up if he can show he can go the rest of this season injury free.
    100% this. This current mob (bar one or two), are players I am looking at thinking, who do I want to keep as squad/back up to whoever the first XI are next season.  Not the other way round.  Nailed it for me 
  • cabbles said:
    My ideal squad for next season would be something like:

    GK - Mac/AMB (AMB might want to leave so Henderson for another year is fine). 
    RCB - Need a first teamer, someone who can play RB too. Clare and Deji as cover. 
    CB - Lavelle/Pearce
    LCB - Famewo (if we can buy him) and cover who also doubles up as cover for Lavelle in the centre (or Famewo move to the centre). 
    RWB - Competition for DJ
    LWB - Competition for Purrington
    CM - Dobson/JFC/Gilbey/Clare. Another DM to properly cover Dobson. 
    CAM - Competition for Lee if we can get him permanently. 
    STR - Two new ones to compete with Stockley and Washington. 
    CBT as an extra, more luxurious player, with the option to play wingers. 

    That's 8 new signings on top of Famewo and Lee. Probably need to buy 3 of them with 5 on loan or frees. Not sure we'll have the budget for it but I'd sell Morgan, Kirk and Davison to help fund it. 

    Gunter, Matthews, Souare, Inniss, Watson, Morgan, Kirk and Davison should be moved on. 
    Pearce isn't good enough now, so he certainly won't be good enough next season. 

    We don't just need competition for Purrington, DJ and Lee, we need first team starters so they are the back up options. None of them are ultimately good enough to start for a promotion chasing side. I don't get the hype around Lee, genuinely feel that too many people over rate him. He's done nothing for weeks.

    Agree about the players to move on, but i'd keep Inniss as a back up if he can show he can go the rest of this season injury free.
    100% this. This current mob (bar one or two), are players I am looking at thinking, who do I want to keep as squad/back up to whoever the first XI are next season.  Not the other way round.  Nailed it for me 
    If that is the case, and I'm not saying it ain't, we're years off doing anything with regards to going up due to the amount of players we'll have to go through to find some that would be an improvement on all those identified as not good enough now. We're talking 6 players minimum, who've not only got to be better, but also have to gel. Depressing
  • Just posted the following in the post match thread but bits of it are pertinent to this thread too ( which I’ve just spotted). 

    Something is rotten. I’m befuddled by it. New owner, new manager. Still shite.  I have always said that this squad of players is hugely overrated. Even our “stars” Stockley, Washington, Purrington, Gilbey etc are bog standard league 1 players IMHO. With the exception of Famewo (not ours), JFC (who may be knackered) and possibly Dobson and Clare I do not think we have a single player who would cut it consistently at championship level. Stockley and Purrington have tried it and come up short. Our recruitment has been pretty disastrous with the exception of the aforementioned players both in terms of quality and timing (and it looks like last minute business will be the order of the day this time round as well).  Kirk - dud. CBT - dud. DJ, Leko and Lee well on the way to Dud City. Don’t let’s mention Arter. Oh well, let’s. And step forward (zimmer frames available if needed) our motley selection of has-beens - Watson, Gunter, Mathews (who has not tried a leg for the last year from what I’ve seen). Our academy is producing but there’s no sign of a Lookman or a Gomez or a Konsa. Albie is surely heading for league 2 either on loan or with us if we don’t pull the finger out. Young Burstow has promise as has Deji2 (who seems to have disappeared) but the likes of Davison, Barker, Henry, Vennings etc have seemingly had their fleeting moments in the sun and are destined for lesser things. 

    Now having just done a hatchet job on our virtually our entire squad, while they are never getting us promoted they are clearly capable of better than they have been showing. Why they have reverted to the malaise is the million dollar question. I’ve no more idea than the next guy or gal why no one can seem to get the best out of this lot for more than a few weeks.  Jacko must be scratching his head. If, as we are given, to understand, his contract renews annually depending on unpublished performance metrics) he must be shitting himself already. 

    I like Thomas. I like the breath of fresh air he has brought. He and his good lady seem to be embracing the things that matter albeit in a slightly egocentric way that may not suit all tastes. But there is a big style over substance issue that he needs to overcome. I hope he’ll do it. He needs in short order to attend to the non football management. Unpopular officials remain in situ despite    long term rumours of their demise. Nepotism abounds and we are left with a few shining stars (take a bow Tracy and co) doing all the hard graft and good stuff. 

    It’s not a happy cocktail at the moment. It’s by no means a disaster but fingers need to be pulled out of arses from top to bottom. 

    I’m glad I saved a tenner last night and didn’t bother.


  • Suppose the botton line is that it's not TS or JJ that are so obviously underperforming on a match to match basis. Blame them for faults in the bigger picture, but everyone knows this group of players can put in much better performances than they currently have been
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  • My ideal squad for next season would be something like:

    GK - Mac/AMB (AMB might want to leave so Henderson for another year is fine). 
    RCB - Need a first teamer, someone who can play RB too. Clare and Deji as cover. 
    CB - Lavelle/Pearce
    LCB - Famewo (if we can buy him) and cover who also doubles up as cover for Lavelle in the centre (or Famewo move to the centre). 
    RWB - Competition for DJ
    LWB - Competition for Purrington
    CM - Dobson/JFC/Gilbey/Clare. Another DM to properly cover Dobson. 
    CAM - Competition for Lee if we can get him permanently. 
    STR - Two new ones to compete with Stockley and Washington. 
    CBT as an extra, more luxurious player, with the option to play wingers. 

    That's 8 new signings on top of Famewo and Lee. Probably need to buy 3 of them with 5 on loan or frees. Not sure we'll have the budget for it but I'd sell Morgan, Kirk and Davison to help fund it. 

    Gunter, Matthews, Souare, Inniss, Watson, Morgan, Kirk and Davison should be moved on. 
    Pearce isn't good enough now, so he certainly won't be good enough next season. 

    We don't just need competition for Purrington, DJ and Lee, we need first team starters so they are the back up options. None of them are ultimately good enough to start for a promotion chasing side. I don't get the hype around Lee, genuinely feel that too many people over rate him. He's done nothing for weeks.

    Agree about the players to move on, but i'd keep Inniss as a back up if he can show he can go the rest of this season injury free.
    Pearce as 4th choice LCB/CB would be fine. If we got someone like another Famewo, he could be on the bench as cover for both Lavelle and Famewo. We'd also have the option of putting Deji in the middle so although on paper I'd have Pearce as back up to Lavelle, realistically he'd be way down the list. You say Pearce isn't good enough now but he's been very good over the last couple of months and is a good character to have around the dressing room. 

    When I said competition for the wing-backs, I would also be looking for players who are better than the two we've got but again both have been pretty decent over the last couple of months. Although I think especially at RWB we'd need someone who can do a lot more going forward so yes, generally agree. 

    Inniss is incapable of staying fit and just wastes a place in the squad. We're allowed 22 this season but it's either 20 or 21 next season so you can't afford to have players who you know are going to get injured. 
  • if we don’t pick up we could get dragged into the relegation battle and be looking to build a squad for promotion back to league one rather then Championship. 

    If Stockley is going to be out for a considerable time I think we should be worried. 
  • Lavelle's a world beater all of a sudden. He was in the team that lost most games at the start of the season. Amazing when somebody doesn't play, their level gets inflated here. bang ave lge 1cb imo
  • Gribbo said:
    cabbles said:
    My ideal squad for next season would be something like:

    GK - Mac/AMB (AMB might want to leave so Henderson for another year is fine). 
    RCB - Need a first teamer, someone who can play RB too. Clare and Deji as cover. 
    CB - Lavelle/Pearce
    LCB - Famewo (if we can buy him) and cover who also doubles up as cover for Lavelle in the centre (or Famewo move to the centre). 
    RWB - Competition for DJ
    LWB - Competition for Purrington
    CM - Dobson/JFC/Gilbey/Clare. Another DM to properly cover Dobson. 
    CAM - Competition for Lee if we can get him permanently. 
    STR - Two new ones to compete with Stockley and Washington. 
    CBT as an extra, more luxurious player, with the option to play wingers. 

    That's 8 new signings on top of Famewo and Lee. Probably need to buy 3 of them with 5 on loan or frees. Not sure we'll have the budget for it but I'd sell Morgan, Kirk and Davison to help fund it. 

    Gunter, Matthews, Souare, Inniss, Watson, Morgan, Kirk and Davison should be moved on. 
    Pearce isn't good enough now, so he certainly won't be good enough next season. 

    We don't just need competition for Purrington, DJ and Lee, we need first team starters so they are the back up options. None of them are ultimately good enough to start for a promotion chasing side. I don't get the hype around Lee, genuinely feel that too many people over rate him. He's done nothing for weeks.

    Agree about the players to move on, but i'd keep Inniss as a back up if he can show he can go the rest of this season injury free.
    100% this. This current mob (bar one or two), are players I am looking at thinking, who do I want to keep as squad/back up to whoever the first XI are next season.  Not the other way round.  Nailed it for me 
    If that is the case, and I'm not saying it ain't, we're years off doing anything with regards to going up due to the amount of players we'll have to go through to find some that would be an improvement on all those identified as not good enough now. We're talking 6 players minimum, who've not only got to be better, but also have to gel. Depressing
    We are years off it. We are now an established League One club, and it will take us a fcking age to change that.
  • Croydon said:
    Gribbo said:
    cabbles said:
    My ideal squad for next season would be something like:

    GK - Mac/AMB (AMB might want to leave so Henderson for another year is fine). 
    RCB - Need a first teamer, someone who can play RB too. Clare and Deji as cover. 
    CB - Lavelle/Pearce
    LCB - Famewo (if we can buy him) and cover who also doubles up as cover for Lavelle in the centre (or Famewo move to the centre). 
    RWB - Competition for DJ
    LWB - Competition for Purrington
    CM - Dobson/JFC/Gilbey/Clare. Another DM to properly cover Dobson. 
    CAM - Competition for Lee if we can get him permanently. 
    STR - Two new ones to compete with Stockley and Washington. 
    CBT as an extra, more luxurious player, with the option to play wingers. 

    That's 8 new signings on top of Famewo and Lee. Probably need to buy 3 of them with 5 on loan or frees. Not sure we'll have the budget for it but I'd sell Morgan, Kirk and Davison to help fund it. 

    Gunter, Matthews, Souare, Inniss, Watson, Morgan, Kirk and Davison should be moved on. 
    Pearce isn't good enough now, so he certainly won't be good enough next season. 

    We don't just need competition for Purrington, DJ and Lee, we need first team starters so they are the back up options. None of them are ultimately good enough to start for a promotion chasing side. I don't get the hype around Lee, genuinely feel that too many people over rate him. He's done nothing for weeks.

    Agree about the players to move on, but i'd keep Inniss as a back up if he can show he can go the rest of this season injury free.
    100% this. This current mob (bar one or two), are players I am looking at thinking, who do I want to keep as squad/back up to whoever the first XI are next season.  Not the other way round.  Nailed it for me 
    If that is the case, and I'm not saying it ain't, we're years off doing anything with regards to going up due to the amount of players we'll have to go through to find some that would be an improvement on all those identified as not good enough now. We're talking 6 players minimum, who've not only got to be better, but also have to gel. Depressing
    We are years off it. We are now an established League One club, and it will take us a fcking age to change that.
    Yeah I know. Depressing ain't it
  • edited January 2022
    we are no where near a play off side let alone a Championship side.
    we as others have said got a few players that could be a part of a team that could be a top side but we have too many holes to plug. Maybe next season if we keep Stockley, Clare, Dobson, Lee and possibly Burstow (would include Innis and JFC but with their injury record you cant really) and put in another 7 or 8 players, asking alot, and then with some momentum and the wind in the right direction we could possibly get out of this poxy league. Whats Cullen up to nowadays?
  • 3 players. 
  • Maybe a bit harsh in the shadow of tonight's performance but think we are a fair bit off from genuinely competing for promotion and then having the foundation of a Championship team.

    Once league status is secured we should surely focus on next year's campaign ie as Steve Brown was saying...sign up those you want to keep now etc. 

    By my reckoning we would need a significant rebuild along the lines of the below if we are going to seriously challenge to be one of the best 3 teams in this league over the next 2 seasons.  A pretty big task.

    A month ago we looked like world beaters so not sure what has gone wrong in that time but much of our squad don't inspire as promotion material let alone having potential to compete in the championship in the next 2 years.


    GK

    Craig MacGillivray Yes  yes

     Stephen Henderson  2nd/3rd choice  yes

      

    Def

     Akin Famewo (on loan from Norwich City) No    3rd division maybe but championship no way

    Jason Pearce (captain) No too slow even for this division

    Samuel Lavelle Yes - so long as he's up to it physically, we haven't seen enough of him yet and he was definitely a last gasp acquisition

    Ryan Inniss  If injury permits - and the doubts here have to be huge - he's making the right noises about wanting to stay but will his earnings aspirations match Charlton's budget?

    Pape Souaré No   not even close

     Sean Clare Yes Best right back at the club, best rightsided CH too - a must keep

     Adam Matthews No  I think he's capable but he seems fragile

     Chris Gunter No  time's run out,  he'd be an adequate Lg1 makeweight if he'd accept a commensurate contract

    Ben Purrington Yes another essential keeper

     Deji Elerewe Yes as a development player in League 1, championship next season (not happening obvs) would be far too soon for him


    Mid
    George Dobson Yes definite at this level

    Diallang Jaiyesimi  Squad player maybe but can't see Championship quality/ potential so only maybe, he's done a turn as an emergency rwb but I don't see anything of what he was supposedly bought for

    Jake Forster-Caskey Yes but hopefully injury hasn’t caused him to lose too much - yes

    Elliot Lee (on loan from Luton Town) Squad player rather than key man - yes in Lg1 if he starts practising deadballs, shooting and crossing!!

     Charlie Kirk Not even close, what/who did they think they were buying?

     Corey Blackett-Taylor No

     Albie Morgan No

    Alex Gilbey  Yes

     Ben Watson No

     

     ST/FWD

    Jayden Stockley (vice-captain) Yes - yes

    Conor Washington Yes - yes on whatever terms he requests

     Josh Davison No the 21/22 undeserved scapegoat - at this level I think he's only just short of what we need, his similarity to Stockers is currently doing him no favours, he had a stinking half against Wycombe but that happens to them all, in the current crop he's Stockers's understudy, I'd offer him a year with an option

    Jonathan Leko (on loan from Birmingham City) Maybe but need to pick a position for him - he's clearly a lovely lad and hugely popular in SE7 but this spell with us has been mostly hopeless, last night a new low, he'll never accept what he's actually worth at CAFC, brum will flog him off elsewhere, good luck to him but no thanks

    Mason Burstow- keep and keep hold of him at all costs - 100%

     

    So probably by that reckoning we would need one or two centre backs, cover at full backs, 3 or 4 midfielders and one or two goal scorers.

    Am I being overly pessimistic?  no you're not, this squad is not in a false position

  • 3 players. 
    Sorry mutts, couldn’t help but LOL that.

    We’re 14th in League One.  We finished 7th last season and people were saying we only needed one or two more.  

    I respect your opinion, but I would love to know which 3 positions you think need strengthening, or the 8 you think are good enough? 
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  • We can improve further of course but to be competetive in league one we need a striker. I am like a worn record but a player who has the attributes we are missing is Cole Stockton. A Lee like player who can shoot - maybe Lee can with more confidence and a centre half who is not made of glass.
  • Gilbey is quality, even on his off days he looks better than the rest.

    I like Clare at RCB and Famewo is a very good defender, just needs to learn to pass the ball.

    Dobson when played as the anchor is also easily good enough for top 6 in this division.

    Outside of that we are struggling a little, players like Stockley, Washington, MacG, Lee etc are all very good on their day but seem to be fairly inconsistent.
  • I think new, first team quality, players for Striker, CAM and a RWB would give us a huge boost in the short term for the rest of the season. 

    Just can't see it happening in January with the squad cap and how unbalanced the squad is right now. 
  • edited January 2022
    Thought we retained too many from last season after "just" missing out on the playoffs, surprisingly, the same core players are more than likely going to miss out again. 

    Adkins - poor result - top 6 side - sack Adkins

    Jackson - poor result - bottom half side - sack the players. 

    In truth, most of the squad is mid table league one, with 3/4 top six league one players and a handful that have the potential to be, some that flatter to deceive and outright midtable quality.

    Top 6 league one 
    McG/ Purrington/ Gilbey/ Stockley 

    Flatter to deceive  (on their day top 6, others mid table )
    Leko/ Famewo/ DJ/ Lee/ Washington

    Potential to be top 6 League one
    Dobson/ Lavelle/ Clare - difficult one as hasn't had a lot of time in midfield where he'd like to be, and really, what we signed him for.

    Midtable
    Matthews/ Gunter/ Watson/ Kirk/ CBT/ Davison/ Morgan 

    Inniss/ JFC/ Pearce - all 3 would be in the top 6 bracket, but with injuries and retirement in site, you could argue they're not worth a squad place next season onwards so not sure they'd be worth including.

    Not enough quality to start and poor back ups. Dobson should have established himself as a solid top 6 player by the end of the season. Add another 3 quality players for the level, and find better experienced players that don't just want to move back home/ keep fit for Wales.
  • 3 players. 

    Only if the 3 are M'Bappe, Lewandowski and Van Dijk
  • Leuth said:
    Gilbey gets a completely free ride on here while others are scrutinised harshly. He might be a decent ball-carrier but (Ipswich aside) I've almost never seen him run a game for us.
    completely agree. He seems to blind people with his few attacking runs. 
  • Redhenry said:
    Lavelle's a world beater all of a sudden. He was in the team that lost most games at the start of the season. Amazing when somebody doesn't play, their level gets inflated here. bang ave lge 1cb imo
    Realistically we won’t be replacing the entire squad and he’s under contract. He’s young enough to improve and we know the main issue is in attack - we need more goals up front and across midfield, and better, more consistent delivery from both wing backs.

    Sort out the attack and our defence will look stronger. They won’t be so exposed if we’ve got better attacking threats who force the opposition to sit deeper.
  • Leuth said:
    Gilbey gets a completely free ride on here while others are scrutinised harshly. He might be a decent ball-carrier but (Ipswich aside) I've almost never seen him run a game for us.
    completely agree. He seems to blind people with his few attacking runs. 
    And just because he looks one of the best in a sea of mediocrity, doesn’t mean he’s good enough.  
  • edited January 2022
    MacGivillary - yes
    Henderson - no
    AMB - maybe
    Clare - yes
    Purrington - yes
    Matthews - no
    Gunter - no
    Pearce - no
    Inniss - not sure, depends on injuries 
    Lavelle - not sure
    Famewo - not sure
    Souare - no

    Dobson - yes
    JFC - not sure, depends on how he returns from his injury
    Gilbey - yes
    Lee - yes
    Kirk - no
    Morgan - no
    DJ - no
    CBT - no 
    Leko - no
    Watson - no

    Washington - yes
    Stockley - yes
    Davison - no
    Burstow - yes

    This shows that we will need to sign a lot of new players - yet again it’s going to be another squad rebuild 🤦🏻‍♀️
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