Isn't this a case of triggering the extra year to get a fee when he leaves in the summer...?
I don't actually think he's worth anything. Who do you think would spend money on him? He had a good spell at Torquay United, but they are in the sixth tier.
I think that he'll be given a pre-season under Jones and then shipped out on loan again when discovered he's not good enough.
If Jones has seen enough to keep him, that's fine by me. Yes, he's looked shaky this season, but last year we saw what he might deliver. Less baffled by this than, say, giving Henry the longer contract.
Worth a punt for another year I'd say, especially as he won't be a big earner
Even if our owners want to "go for it" next season, our budget won't be infinite. So cheap but dependable backup is not a bad idea.
Assuming we play 3 at the back and assuming Jones, REG and Gillesphey will still be here then I suspect we go with 5 CBs and a kid. If Mitchell is the kid, Ness an understudy then that allows one more.
So maybe him signing means we can move on Thomas and Hector and spend their combined wages on someone exceptional for our level to be our number one CB on the team sheet. That would be great business to me.
If we could move Jones and Gillesphey on for 2 better replacements then even better but that seems unlikely.
I think that ness is the “kid” and sixth defender. You need that level depth at the position in a 352 but want someone on lower wages. My guess is Mitchell will be loaned out again. Given Mitchell really struggled in League two last year I doubt in is going to be in the first team mix in the short term
Around the time we played Man Utd in the Carabao cup Ness was the next best thing since sliced bread under Holden. He has fallen down the ranks since then. Maybe he needs a manager that will have faith in him......not sure that is Jones TBH but if he can go out on loan it may be beneficial.........
I think that ness is the “kid” and sixth defender. You need that level depth at the position in a 352 but want someone on lower wages. My guess is Mitchell will be loaned out again. Given Mitchell really struggled in League two last year I doubt in is going to be in the first team mix in the short term
Where has it been said that Zach "struggled" this season in L2 ?
My understanding is that once Garner left, last season's EFL L1 Apprentice of the Season didn't fit into Cowley's system & was sidelined straight away. What a waste of a season for a well regarded young player !
Sincerely hoping that Nathan gives him a deserved opportunity to show what he has to offer in the close season.
He looked at his best when playing with Hector last season, and whilst he is not the only one (Lloyd Jones), this was in large part because Hector was able to step up and win contested headers as well as put the first challenge in when the ball was coming into the defensive line, and that allowed Ness to drop back and use his mobility to mop up. And he did very well. Hector's solidness on the ball also meant that Ness just had to either play long balls (which he's decent at) or play it square to his CB partner.
I do still think there's a decent player in there. A lot of the things he's currently lacking--reading the game, ability in possession, keeping up with pace of play, defending on the front foot--are learnable. But my concerns with him are similar to my concerns with Deji: 1) The above are not things that can be learned in one pre-season or one run of games, they oftentimes take months if not years 2) And learning them oftentimes means playing consistently
And given that he has one year left on his contract, we don't really have months/multiple years for him to develop, and it's hard to see him playing regularly next season baring a lot of injuries.
I don't mind the idea of keeping him around for depth, it might mean letting Mitchell go out on loan again for the first half next season--I would rather Mitchell get experience as he has the far brighter future. But in an ideal world, Ness would be going out on loan, at least for the first half next season, to iron out the kinks and improve his reading of the game (and with that, his ability in the air should improve at least to the point of not completely misjudging headers constantly). But I don't know if that will happen. He's a perfectly fine sixth choice CB, but I'm not expecting huge improvements until he has the chance to play week in, week out, make mistakes, and fix them.
I’m not sure Ness fits into our 3-5-2, though maybe Jones will switch to a diamond next season.
I don’t see him as one of the wider CBs in a back three where you want a bit more ability on the ball, pace and players who are comfortable sometimes getting forward and offering width.
He also doesn’t fit the central CB mould, someone who could either be the big strong dominating type or good on the ball and step into midfield to move from 3-5-2 to a diamond.
I think he’s got the potential to progress but he’ll need regular game time which I can’t see us offering considering where we want to be.
Also this: I think he's mobile enough to play on the outside of a back three, I don't think he's good enough on the ball. And playing in the middle would mean having two outside CBs constantly stepping up to win heads and defend on the front foot, and I'm not sure Gillesphey, Jones or REG meet that criteria. I also think both Jones and Gillesphey are best suited to playing in the middle of a back three.
NJ in the programme today repeating that the current squad is too big, he wants to bring in quality and that they have been working on recruitment pretty much since he came in while praising the conveyor belt of talent from the academy.
Feels like a weird fever dream that this time 12 months ago I thought we had a CB who we could build a defense around for years to come, injuries have obviously had an impact but he looks so many miles off that centre half tho broke through last season
His last few performances were pretty good. I think we should forget the games where he was coming back from injury and the whole team were playing badly. It's definitelyworth seeing how he performs over the next twelve months. He's still very young for a centre back.
Even if our owners want to "go for it" next season, our budget won't be infinite. So cheap but dependable backup is not a bad idea.
Assuming we play 3 at the back and assuming Jones, REG and Gillesphey will still be here then I suspect we go with 5 CBs and a kid. If Mitchell is the kid, Ness an understudy then that allows one more.
So maybe him signing means we can move on Thomas and Hector and spend their combined wages on someone exceptional for our level to be our number one CB on the team sheet. That would be great business to me.
If we could move Jones and Gillesphey on for 2 better replacements then even better but that seems unlikely.
Not sure about letting Hector go. Players Marks thread shows him very near the top of the rankings in most of his matches after his shaky start, That would depend on who was to replace him of course.
Jones seems to like Thomas, however he's played Hector, Jones, REG and Gillesphey. I'm not convinced he knows who his back three are, but i think we can all agree we need better and it's unlikely the answer is Ness. I'd be interested how does everyone rank our CBs?
It's possible that Ness is staying because he is an 'academy graduate' (sort of) and in the 8+8+8 model, while he's not very good, he can at least be one of the 8 on the edges of the first team squad
I think that ness is the “kid” and sixth defender. You need that level depth at the position in a 352 but want someone on lower wages. My guess is Mitchell will be loaned out again. Given Mitchell really struggled in League two last year I doubt in is going to be in the first team mix in the short term
Was excellent in many games before his injury last season, didn’t get anywhere near those levels again this season.
Personally think we triggered the extension to ensure we get a fee this summer as compensation isn’t always the best option nor with his age, it might not be an option for too much longer.
Was excellent in many games before his injury last season, didn’t get anywhere near those levels again this season.
Personally think we triggered the extension to ensure we get a fee this summer as compensation isn’t always the best option nor with his age, it might not be an option for too much longer.
Not sure there is going to be much of a fee or compensation.
A large sell on fee ala Eleware maybe.
But if the extension was only trigged to get a fee why announce it far ahead of the retain and released list?
Was excellent in many games before his injury last season, didn’t get anywhere near those levels again this season.
Personally think we triggered the extension to ensure we get a fee this summer as compensation isn’t always the best option nor with his age, it might not be an option for too much longer.
Not sure there is going to be much of a fee or compensation.
A large sell on fee ala Eleware maybe.
But if the extension was only trigged to get a fee why announce it far ahead of the retain and released list?
Potentially to get him in other clubs' thinking for their transfer window? Announcing the extension early and then touting Ness around a bit might allow teams to consider him as an option when they put their lists together.
Alternatively and probably more likely a lot of work has been done with budget and targets and Jones has decided that he's got the scope to replace two CBs but not three. We've got four now with Ness who will occupy the 6th slot and probably (hopefully) not be called upon and we can bring in two top CBs to play alongside Lloyd or REG. Ness can't be on much, we trigger his extension without needing to negotiate a payrise, pay for two proper CBs and then ideally have a top 6 season and release Ness at the end of it when we look to progress again. Equally it could be that Jones is going to see if he can improve Ness this season
Was excellent in many games before his injury last season, didn’t get anywhere near those levels again this season.
Personally think we triggered the extension to ensure we get a fee this summer as compensation isn’t always the best option nor with his age, it might not be an option for too much longer.
Not sure there is going to be much of a fee or compensation.
A large sell on fee ala Eleware maybe.
But if the extension was only trigged to get a fee why announce it far ahead of the retain and released list?
Potentially to get him in other clubs' thinking for their transfer window? Announcing the extension early and then touting Ness around a bit might allow teams to consider him as an option when they put their lists together.
Alternatively and probably more likely a lot of work has been done with budget and targets and Jones has decided that he's got the scope to replace two CBs but not three. We've got four now with Ness who will occupy the 6th slot and probably (hopefully) not be called upon and we can bring in two top CBs to play alongside Lloyd or REG. Ness can't be on much, we trigger his extension without needing to negotiate a payrise, pay for two proper CBs and then ideally have a top 6 season and release Ness at the end of it when we look to progress again. Equally it could be that Jones is going to see if he can improve Ness this season
How I see it generally plus we could either loan him out till January to League One/Two and see how he does or a short term National League loan too. He’s young, he never really came through the academy route and he has shown he has potential.
Nowhere near as strange as having Aaron Henry under contract for another season.
It's possible, though you'd think if that were the case we'd try and tie him down to a longer deal before activating his extension like we're doing with Small. I guess we'll see, I'm hopeful with a summer off and his second season over we might see the Ness of last season more this the one we got in this one.
Then why only give him 45 mins at the end of the season?
I think ness was retained to get a small fee and a sell on clause
By the same logic why consistantly play two players, Hector and Thomas, he was about to release
Personally felt he was giving chances to Hector and Thomas to change his mind. I'm sure he said somewhere that some tough conversations had to be made, and reckon he was referencing Thomas, probably the most difficult one of all having polled 3rd in player of the year.
Maybe he was already impressed with Ness that he didn't need to play him to decide if he was wanted for next season.
Comments
Not sure which.
I think that he'll be given a pre-season under Jones and then shipped out on loan again when discovered he's not good enough.
Worth a punt for another year I'd say, especially as he won't be a big earner
Assuming we play 3 at the back and assuming Jones, REG and Gillesphey will still be here then I suspect we go with 5 CBs and a kid.
If Mitchell is the kid, Ness an understudy then that allows one more.
So maybe him signing means we can move on Thomas and Hector and spend their combined wages on someone exceptional for our level to be our number one CB on the team sheet. That would be great business to me.
If we could move Jones and Gillesphey on for 2 better replacements then even better but that seems unlikely.
I do still think there's a decent player in there. A lot of the things he's currently lacking--reading the game, ability in possession, keeping up with pace of play, defending on the front foot--are learnable. But my concerns with him are similar to my concerns with Deji:
1) The above are not things that can be learned in one pre-season or one run of games, they oftentimes take months if not years
2) And learning them oftentimes means playing consistently
And given that he has one year left on his contract, we don't really have months/multiple years for him to develop, and it's hard to see him playing regularly next season baring a lot of injuries.
I don't mind the idea of keeping him around for depth, it might mean letting Mitchell go out on loan again for the first half next season--I would rather Mitchell get experience as he has the far brighter future. But in an ideal world, Ness would be going out on loan, at least for the first half next season, to iron out the kinks and improve his reading of the game (and with that, his ability in the air should improve at least to the point of not completely misjudging headers constantly). But I don't know if that will happen. He's a perfectly fine sixth choice CB, but I'm not expecting huge improvements until he has the chance to play week in, week out, make mistakes, and fix them.
Personally think we triggered the extension to ensure we get a fee this summer as compensation isn’t always the best option nor with his age, it might not be an option for too much longer.
A large sell on fee ala Eleware maybe.
But if the extension was only trigged to get a fee why announce it far ahead of the retain and released list?
Nowhere near as strange as having Aaron Henry under contract for another season.
I think ness was retained to get a small fee and a sell on clause
Personally felt he was giving chances to Hector and Thomas to change his mind. I'm sure he said somewhere that some tough conversations had to be made, and reckon he was referencing Thomas, probably the most difficult one of all having polled 3rd in player of the year.
Maybe he was already impressed with Ness that he didn't need to play him to decide if he was wanted for next season.