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Post-match Thread: Charlton Athletic v Gillingham | Tuesday 15 March 2022

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Comments

  • Davo55
    Davo55 Posts: 7,846
    A real mixed set of views on Sam Lavelle last night. He was certainly much improved later in the game and (it has been pointed out to me) that coincided with Pearcey coming on. Sam’s still young and benefits greatly from having that experience and support alongside him. 
  • ross1
    ross1 Posts: 51,034

  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,773
    edited March 2022
    Getting rid of Gilbey would be a najor mistake. He could have had 4 or 5 yesterday. I know the retort, well he only got one. But he has the game to be a real asset to us and we should be more interested in his development than slagging him off. Dobson, Gilbey, Fraser and possibly JFC is a good starting point for next season.

    When you watch Stockley and Washington play, it is like chalk and cheese in relation to Burstow and Leko. There is more a determination to make something happen whether they are having a good game or not. It is very important to the side.

    I wasn't too dosapointed on how we played. It was the sort of game you expect when you are trying to come out of a poor run. Whilst we were not spectacular, we deserved the points and that is a positive. Every chance we can follow that up on Staurday with another win.
  • Chunes
    Chunes Posts: 17,405
    edited March 2022
    Gilbey is 27. Not sure he's got a lot of developing left to do!
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,773
    edited March 2022
    Chunes said:
    Gilbey is 27. Not sure he's got a lot of developing left to do!
    I think he can. You are looking at finishing which can suddenly fall into place. The difficulty is getting into the positions which I think is a strength of his. Not developing basic skills.
  • Chunes
    Chunes Posts: 17,405
    edited March 2022
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    Chunes said:
    Gilbey is 27. Not sure he's got a lot of developing left to do!
    I think he can. You are looking at finishing which can suddenly fall into place. The difficulty is getting into the positions which I think is a strength of his. Not developing basic skills.
    Composure is what he lacks and that's in his final ball as well. 

    He's never scored more than five goals in a season, will it all suddenly fall into place aged 28? Stranger things have happened but I'm not holding my breath. 
  • Oggy Red
    Oggy Red Posts: 44,962
    paulg1947 said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    It's why unlike some I like Gilbey. He gets the chances even though he misses too many. Another player doesn't get them. Sort that out and he will score more and his energy helps us.
    For some reason Gilbey seems to play much better when Washington is in the team. 

    The worrying thing is how much better everyone plays when Washington plays.  He isn't THAT good. 
    Yet he is always picked for international duty. Not bad for a Div One player
    Washington, while not individually outstanding, is a player that makes a team perform greater than it's sum of parts.
    His managers know his value.

    The type of player that Curbs would have liked in his time.


  • LenGlover
    LenGlover Posts: 31,671
    Chunes said:
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    Chunes said:
    Gilbey is 27. Not sure he's got a lot of developing left to do!
    I think he can. You are looking at finishing which can suddenly fall into place. The difficulty is getting into the positions which I think is a strength of his. Not developing basic skills.
    Composure is what he lacks and that's in his final ball as well.

    He's never scored more than five goals in a season, will it all suddenly fall into place aged 28? Stranger things have happened but I'm not holding my breath. 
    Jackson himself developed into a goalscoring midfielder later in his career. If anyone can guide Gilbey, theoretically he should be able to from his own playing experience.
  • LenGlover
    LenGlover Posts: 31,671
    Is Albie injured or was he just left out completely?

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  • Chunes
    Chunes Posts: 17,405
    edited March 2022
    LenGlover said:
    Chunes said:
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    Chunes said:
    Gilbey is 27. Not sure he's got a lot of developing left to do!
    I think he can. You are looking at finishing which can suddenly fall into place. The difficulty is getting into the positions which I think is a strength of his. Not developing basic skills.
    Composure is what he lacks and that's in his final ball as well.

    He's never scored more than five goals in a season, will it all suddenly fall into place aged 28? Stranger things have happened but I'm not holding my breath. 
    Jackson himself developed into a goalscoring midfielder later in his career. If anyone can guide Gilbey, theoretically he should be able to from his own playing experience.
    Was that not because he had spent a lot of his career not playing there? When he did get a long run playing there, he was a natural goalscorer in that position. Different to Gilbey who has always played CM and never scored a lot.
  • Oggy Red
    Oggy Red Posts: 44,962
    Chunes said:
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    Chunes said:
    Gilbey is 27. Not sure he's got a lot of developing left to do!
    I think he can. You are looking at finishing which can suddenly fall into place. The difficulty is getting into the positions which I think is a strength of his. Not developing basic skills.
    Composure is what he lacks and that's in his final ball as well.

    He's never scored more than five goals in a season, will it all suddenly fall into place aged 28? Stranger things have happened but I'm not holding my breath. 
    Muttley's original main point, is that Gilbey makes the runs from deep to get into goalscoring positions.
    No one else in our midfield does that any way near as much.

    But Gilbey does make those runs, especially with players like Washington in front of him peeling off and creating the space for Gilbey to run into.
    No Washington in the team, for example = no space created for Gilbey to make his runs. Fans though, conclude Gilbey is not putting the effort in.


    Players won't score goals if they are not in the right place at the right time. Gilbey is making those runs to put himself in the right place.  He won't score every time though, even top strikers don't. Goalscoring is invariably about averages ...... last night, Gilbey had 3 chances and converted 1, more or less the stats of most strikers let alone midfielders.

    Okay, there's question marks against Gilbey's composure at times - but as he's often busting a gut to make those runs, composure can easily suffer.
    You see that also in better players than Gilbey.

    He's 27. Will he get better? Maybe his composure will. That might be all it takes.


  • RoanRedNY
    RoanRedNY Posts: 1,152
    Macronate said:
    Why are people talking about relegation when we’re only 23 points off a playoff place.
    Exactly - we are also only 39 teams off the Premier League.  Let’s have some perspective!!
  • Oggy Red
    Oggy Red Posts: 44,962
    RoanRedNY said:
    Macronate said:
    Why are people talking about relegation when we’re only 23 points off a playoff place.
    Exactly - we are also only 39 teams off the Premier League.  Let’s have some perspective!!
    But there will be those glass half empty types, pointing out that we're only 33 places from non-league ....... and we're DOOMED! :smiley:




  • Chunes
    Chunes Posts: 17,405
    edited March 2022
    Oggy Red said:
    Chunes said:
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    Chunes said:
    Gilbey is 27. Not sure he's got a lot of developing left to do!
    I think he can. You are looking at finishing which can suddenly fall into place. The difficulty is getting into the positions which I think is a strength of his. Not developing basic skills.
    Composure is what he lacks and that's in his final ball as well.

    He's never scored more than five goals in a season, will it all suddenly fall into place aged 28? Stranger things have happened but I'm not holding my breath. 
    Muttley's original main point, is that Gilbey makes the runs from deep to get into goalscoring positions.
    No one else in our midfield does that any way near as much.

    But Gilbey does make those runs, especially with players like Washington in front of him peeling off and creating the space for Gilbey to run into.
    No Washington in the team, for example = no space created for Gilbey to make his runs. Fans though, conclude Gilbey is not putting the effort in.


    Players won't score goals if they are not in the right place at the right time. Gilbey is making those runs to put himself in the right place.  He won't score every time though, even top strikers don't. Goalscoring is invariably about averages ...... last night, Gilbey had 3 chances and converted 1, more or less the stats of most strikers let alone midfielders.

    Okay, there's question marks against Gilbey's composure at times - but as he's often busting a gut to make those runs, composure can easily suffer.
    You see that also in better players than Gilbey.

    He's 27. Will he get better? Maybe his composure will. That might be all it takes.


    For a long time I had similar feelings to you guys, that he could come good. But I've watched every game he's played for us for two years and he never does. The trait that finally turned it off for me was the hiding. Gilbey hides, we've all seen it. As Peter Crouch said in one of his podcasts, there are places to hide on a football pitch, and bravery is about more than just making tackles, it's about showing for the ball in tough games. 

    The best indicator of future performance is past performance, he's been here a long time and had maybe five good games. If you had to bet your house, would you bet he continues on his current trajectory of average-to-poor with the odd good game thrown in every once in a while, or a sudden, sharp uptick in form? 

    To be honest, I'm done 'hoping' players come good. We've been shit for ages. We need players who are consistent. 
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,773
    Oggy Red said:
    Chunes said:
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    Chunes said:
    Gilbey is 27. Not sure he's got a lot of developing left to do!
    I think he can. You are looking at finishing which can suddenly fall into place. The difficulty is getting into the positions which I think is a strength of his. Not developing basic skills.
    Composure is what he lacks and that's in his final ball as well.

    He's never scored more than five goals in a season, will it all suddenly fall into place aged 28? Stranger things have happened but I'm not holding my breath. 
    Muttley's original main point, is that Gilbey makes the runs from deep to get into goalscoring positions.
    No one else in our midfield does that any way near as much.

    But Gilbey does make those runs, especially with players like Washington in front of him peeling off and creating the space for Gilbey to run into.
    No Washington in the team, for example = no space created for Gilbey to make his runs. Fans though, conclude Gilbey is not putting the effort in.


    Players won't score goals if they are not in the right place at the right time. Gilbey is making those runs to put himself in the right place.  He won't score every time though, even top strikers don't. Goalscoring is invariably about averages ...... last night, Gilbey had 3 chances and converted 1, more or less the stats of most strikers let alone midfielders.

    Okay, there's question marks against Gilbey's composure at times - but as he's often busting a gut to make those runs, composure can easily suffer.
    You see that also in better players than Gilbey.

    He's 27. Will he get better? Maybe his composure will. That might be all it takes.


    That is indeed my point. Composure isn't talent and it can also have a link to how the team functions as a unit and pressure within it. I thought Dobson was a good player very early when some were writing him off and I think Gilbey is a good player even though some have been writing him off. Am I right, well as always it is a matter of opinion but that is what we give on a forum.

    When I managed, at youth football level admittedly, I was criticised for playing a player who missed too many sitters. But what I saw was he was getting the chances other players were not. He continued to be a bit wasteful but ended up our top scorer. Even whilst he was top scorer, some were calling on me to drop him. I said to one, the problem is you are making a judgement on what you see on grass, but I make it on what I see on paper. Even in previous matches Gilbey was getting into goal scoring positions more than any other non striker.
  • Chunes
    Chunes Posts: 17,405
    Composure is a talent. 
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,773
    circumstances can affect composure.
  • Chunes
    Chunes Posts: 17,405
    edited March 2022
    If circumstances affect your composure, that's the definition of not having composure! Sorry Mutts but you're reaching here mate. 
  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 33,738
    edited March 2022
    ross1 said:

    "You dont win a game if you don't keep clean sheet"

    And there you have it. I know the interview is after a game & might nit be thinking to clearly but......

    Just need to score more goals than your opponent. I couldn't care less if we let in 2 goals every game as long as we score 3.

    Clean sheets are overrated. Its scoring goals that counts.

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  • Carter
    Carter Posts: 14,271
    Eurgh I hate feeling like this after s win 

    We were bang average, Gillingham were poor. If we had moved the ball quickly and played with any degree of tempo that game would have been out of sight in the first half. 

    Corey Blackett-Taylor was the only midfielder looking to make something happen, their full backs were pish, every single time they had a runner to deal with they collapsed and we didn't capitalise on that or overload. 

    I was annoyed with Gillingham too in a weird way, they just seemed to accept their fate. Vadaine Oliver dominates everyone and they could have made so much more of the knockdowns he got but they are shit.

    We are only a bees dick less shit than them which is criminal given the disparity of resources 
  • Oggy Red
    Oggy Red Posts: 44,962
    Chunes said:
    If circumstances affect your composure, that's the definition of not having composure! Sorry Mutts but you're reaching here mate. 
    Blimey, mate ..... you give the impression that you expect Premier League standards from average Third Division players.
    They are Third Division players for a reason, with all the strengths, imperfections and frailties of being human.

    When the team is playing well as a unit, individual players perform well - an integral part of a side in form.
    But much of that depends on how that team unit functions: when it's struggling with a string of poor or even dreadful results, missing key players, confidence is lost and anxiety creeps in. When the ball doesn't stick up front, no one creates space and usually reliable players are regularly making the same mistakes costing goals and games - every player's form suffers. We've just witnessed exactly that since Christmas.

    It's seen clearly with strikers ..... scoring regularly, they're clearly composed, confident and full of self-belief.
    Then comes the dreaded barren run and week after week they fluff what seems to be the easiest of chances.

    Likewise clearly seen with keepers, shot stopping, commanding their box and claiming crosses. But it just needs the team to have a poor run, the keeper exposed and too many goals conceded, before the keeper himself gets jittery.


    Back to Gilbey: it's been an unpredictable year and a half for him at Charlton. Last season, having suffered a bad injury early on that kept him out for a lengthy period, Bowyer then played him before he was fully recovered in an unfamiliar position which he clearly struggled with. Adkins arrived and played Gilbey correctly and then we saw how effective he could be in a team that was playing well as a unit.

    Covid struck Gilbey in the summer - not only did he miss most of this pre-season but was obviously lacking stamina and sharpness when he finally was able to be again involved. He struggled in a struggling team. When Jacko was first installed as manager, the team was on fire and Gilbey was a key part of that. 

    Circumstance affect your composure? Of course it does.
    You wouldn't be human otherwise.

  • Chunes
    Chunes Posts: 17,405
    edited March 2022
    I feel like I'm losing my mind here. What has any of that got to do with playing a simple final ball that's clearly on? Or a shot that's clearly on? Best leave it. Agree to disagree. We make so many excuses for the poor performances of our crap players that we deserve to be where we are.
  • Fanny Fanackapan
    Fanny Fanackapan Posts: 18,758
    Carter said:
    Eurgh I hate feeling like this after s win 

    We were bang average, Gillingham were poor. If we had moved the ball quickly and played with any degree of tempo that game would have been out of sight in the first half. 

    Corey Blackett-Taylor was the only midfielder looking to make something happen, their full backs were pish, every single time they had a runner to deal with they collapsed and we didn't capitalise on that or overload. 

    I was annoyed with Gillingham too in a weird way, they just seemed to accept their fate. Vadaine Oliver dominates everyone and they could have made so much more of the knockdowns he got but they are shit.

    We are only a bees dick less shit than them which is criminal given the disparity of resources 
    Fair enough, Carter  & I know we'd all like, expect even, our team to be higher in the league & demolishing the likes of Gillingham.

    But have you heard the saying " Mighty oaks from little acorns grow" ? 

    The confidence in this squad must be minimal following so many poor performances that have seen us heading due south.

    As such, last night will hopefully give us a foundation to build on - a new "start" to the season if it makes sense.

    And, there's every reason to think  we could build on that small,  but perfectly formed foundation and grow like that oak tree....

    ...as long as we don't hold on to any dead wood. 

    Then again, I hear you say, one swallow does not a summer make, a phrase coined by Arry Stotle, that well known twitcher. 
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,773
    edited March 2022
    Chunes said:
    I feel like I'm losing my mind here. What has any of that got to do with playing a simple final ball that's clearly on? Or a shot that's clearly on? Best leave it. Agree to disagree. We make so many excuses for the poor performances of our crap players that we deserve to be where we are.
    Possibly or maybe we decide some of the players who are not crap are which could be cutting off our noses to spite our faces. I get it. The season is so shite that all the players must be. Some of them undoubtably are.
  • Oggy Red
    Oggy Red Posts: 44,962
    golfaddick said:
    ross1 said:

    "You dont win a game if you don't keep clean sheet"

    And there you have it. I know the interview is after a game & might nit be thinking to clearly but......

    Just need to score more goals than your opponent. I couldn't care less if we let in 2 goals every game as long as we score 3.

    Clean sheets are overrated. Its scoring goals that counts.
    You stand more chance of winning a game if you keep a clean sheet, Golfie.
    Why otherwise would managers prize clean sheets so highly?

    Back to basics:
    1) Keep a clean sheet = 1 point guaranteed.
    2) Keep a clean sheet and score just 1 goal= 3 points guaranteed.

    3) Let the oppo score and you need to score 1 goal ..... just to earn a point.
    4) Let the oppo score and you need to score 2 goals ...... to win, 3 points.

    You might not care less if we let in 2 goals every game, but can you guarantee we will score 3?
    No, of course not. Opponents are not just going to roll over. They want points also.


    PS: Roy of the Rovers was my hero too. :smile:


  • Oggy Red
    Oggy Red Posts: 44,962
    Chunes said:
    I feel like I'm losing my mind here. What has any of that got to do with playing a simple final ball that's clearly on? Or a shot that's clearly on? Best leave it. Agree to disagree. We make so many excuses for the poor performances of our crap players that we deserve to be where we are.
    Yeah, I'm good with that too, Chunes. :smile:




  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,773
    Carter said:
    Eurgh I hate feeling like this after s win 

    We were bang average, Gillingham were poor. If we had moved the ball quickly and played with any degree of tempo that game would have been out of sight in the first half. 

    Corey Blackett-Taylor was the only midfielder looking to make something happen, their full backs were pish, every single time they had a runner to deal with they collapsed and we didn't capitalise on that or overload. 

    I was annoyed with Gillingham too in a weird way, they just seemed to accept their fate. Vadaine Oliver dominates everyone and they could have made so much more of the knockdowns he got but they are shit.

    We are only a bees dick less shit than them which is criminal given the disparity of resources 
    I would be a massive mistake going for Oliver as a poster suggested. We need somebody to score goals.
  • CL_Phantom
    CL_Phantom Posts: 5,558
    Jake Forster-caskey was hardly a goal scoring midfielder before us, then a certain ex manager told him all about arriving late in the box and hey, we saw him bang in a few goals one half season. 

    Gilbey can learn to keep his composure and finish.












    I hope...
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,773
    edited March 2022
    Richard Rufus was a defender who never scored. He went 100 games without scoring. Then he scored in the play off final and started to build up a decent return for a centre back. And against better defenders.

    In terms of Gilbey, he definitely gets more than his fair share of chances compared to other midfielders. That is an attribute that could become useful if he improves his end product just by a small percentage.

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