Post-match Thread: Charlton Athletic v Gillingham | Tuesday 15 March 2022

Carter

Fanny Fanackapan said:

Carter said:

Eurgh I hate feeling like this after s win 

We were bang average, Gillingham were poor. If we had moved the ball quickly and played with any degree of tempo that game would have been out of sight in the first half. 

Corey Blackett-Taylor was the only midfielder looking to make something happen, their full backs were pish, every single time they had a runner to deal with they collapsed and we didn't capitalise on that or overload. 

I was annoyed with Gillingham too in a weird way, they just seemed to accept their fate. Vadaine Oliver dominates everyone and they could have made so much more of the knockdowns he got but they are shit.

We are only a bees dick less shit than them which is criminal given the disparity of resources 

Fair enough, Carter  & I know we'd all like, expect even, our team to be higher in the league & demolishing the likes of Gillingham.

But have you heard the saying " Mighty oaks from little acorns grow" ? 

The confidence in this squad must be minimal following so many poor performances that have seen us heading due south.

As such, last night will hopefully give us a foundation to build on - a new "start" to the season if it makes sense.

And, there's every reason to think  we could build on that small,  but perfectly formed foundation and grow like that oak tree....

...as long as we don't hold on to any dead wood. 

Then again, I hear you say, one swallow does not a summer make, a phrase coined by Arry Stotle, that well known twitcher. 

Yeah I agree, and I'm a big believer in the meritocracy of the football pyramid, we are in the same division as Gillingham, Accrington, Morecombe, Fleetwood and next year will be sharing it with Forest Green Rovers whose ground I am greatly looking  forward to visiting next season. 

What kills me though is the lack of anything resembling an attitude from our heroes in red. Even if its a fuck you attitude to us for giving them grief for that big wet dump they took on the pitch last Saturday. An "I'll show you" type vigour out of at least their own collective professional pride but they pedestrianed their way through another game and it shouldn't fool anyone 

I do admire your glass half full attitude auntie Fanny but these numbskulls have emptied me of that 

Cafc43v3r

I'll chuck my $0.02 in about Gilbey.  All things considered I would put Gilbey in our top 10 players, I think.

If you exclude Aneke and Inniss he might be closer to top 5.

Is Gilbey as good as Cullen, Bielik and Aribo or Stephens, Hollands and Jackson?    Nope. 

Is he better than Pratley, Morgan, Reeves, Lapslie, Marshall, Hughes, Russell, Wagstaff et al? Possibly.

Point being we won't not get promoted next season because Gilbey is in our squad, nor will we get promoted because Gilbey is in our squad.  There are at least 15 other problems to deal with before we jog him on.

He isn't the answer but he isn't the problem either. 

Croydon

MuttleyCAFC said:

Getting rid of Gilbey would be a najor mistake. He could have had 4 or 5 yesterday. I know the retort, well he only got one. But he has the game to be a real asset to us and we should be more interested in his development than slagging him off. Dobson, Gilbey, Fraser and possibly JFC is a good starting point for next season.

When you watch Stockley and Washington play, it is like chalk and cheese in relation to Burstow and Leko. There is more a determination to make something happen whether they are having a good game or not. It is very important to the side.

I wasn't too dosapointed on how we played. It was the sort of game you expect when you are trying to come out of a poor run. Whilst we were not spectacular, we deserved the points and that is a positive. Every chance we can follow that up on Staurday with another win.

One win against a dogshit Gills side and suddenly we're back to thinking the majority of the side are good enough. This fanbase 

MuttleyCAFC

We are not 1 or 2 players short. We need a lot more but my point is Gilbey isn't one of them and that could be as a squad player or starter. Those that think we need to change every player are not being realistic.

Croydon

You have Gilbey as a starting CM next season and you finish mid table again. Bloke has literally been absolute shite for weeks, a ghost even. Then he taps it into an empty net and is now a promotion winning CM? No chance. Squad player at absolute  best.

MuttleyCAFC

I would view him as a squad player with potential to be a starter which to be honest is how we should be assessing every player we keep. 

Cafc43v3r

Croydon said:

You have Gilbey as a starting CM next season and you finish mid table again. Bloke has literally been absolute shite for weeks, a ghost even. Then he taps it into an empty net and is now a promotion winning CM? No chance. Squad player at absolute  best.

Last season Gilbey was a 50/50 player, not a "first name on the team sheet" but was involved when fit.  We finished 7th.

Its not a stretch to suggest he could play a big role in a squad, not team, that finished higher than 7th. 

Lapslie, Reeves and Marshall played over 40 games between them in 18/19......

You couldn't, in any honesty, say the same about 7, 8 or 9 in our squad now.  Replace those first. 

6 loans + Watson, Gunter or Matthews and Souare is already 9.  I would almost keep everyone else on the basis we aren't going to sign 13 or 14 players better than them. 

paulfox

When Gilbey is on his game, I enjoy his running and energy, I know it’s a strange thing to then say, but sometimes if he stood still once he’s made a run forward you may find he gives himself time for some composure, quite often he’s running onto the ball having to then make an immediate decision. I think if he improves his timing into and around the edge of the box he will have more success, much like the goal he scored against Ipswich, he took the ball in his stride and buried it. I personally think there is something there with him. But that shouldn’t take away how poor he like many others have been recently.

killerandflash

CL_Phantom said:

Jake Forster-caskey was hardly a goal scoring midfielder before us, then a certain ex manager told him all about arriving late in the box and hey, we saw him bang in a few goals one half season. 

Gilbey can learn to keep his composure and finish.












I hope...

JFC is only a few months older than Gilbey (both are 27), so JFC's goal scoring improvement happened at a much younger age than Gilbey is now.

Indeed either are especially prolific
JFC - 21 in 211 league matches
Gilbey - 25 in 276

Joe Aribo has 30 in 189 now

TEL

I think we should take another look at signing Tucker, I was impressed with him. Myself, like Brownie wasnt impressed with Lavelle.....as Brownie said he hardly won a header all night, albeit against probably the best header of a ball in league one (Oliver).

If we are going 352 next season we need three ball playing proper centre backs and two proper wing backs rather than wingers playing wing back.

Im loving Dobbo in midfield, our best player by a country mile and Fraser looks like the real deal albeit lacking fitness. Stockley and Washington play well together but we need an alternative and we cannot rely on Aneke. I wouldnt sign or re-sign any of the loans....we have been really poor with loans recently and need to improve if they are making up 5 of our match day squad.

AMB in goal with Harness and Calamity Craig as back up next season

Not a great game but we got the three points which this season is all that matters until we stutter across the line and put this awful season behind us.

Exiled_Addick

I think people forget that in the two promotion winning seasons we had excellent first teams but behind that the squad players were nothing special. Both seasons, especially Powell’s, we avoided too many major injuries and suspensions. In Bowyer’s season there was a period around the new year when Bielik and Cullen were injured and Taylor was suspended and we wobbled a bit during that period. This season, and it’s partly because we put our eggs in the wrong basket, but also some bad luck, we’ve had either our best defence or best attack or both missing for three quarters of the season. There’s other issues too, and I’m not saying our first choice team is as good as either Powell or Bowyers, but that has hampered us massively.

A vey few of this squad are good enough to be first choice next season, but a good deal more would be good enough squad players. 

EveshamAddick

Carter said:

Fanny Fanackapan said:

Carter said:

Eurgh I hate feeling like this after s win 

We were bang average, Gillingham were poor. If we had moved the ball quickly and played with any degree of tempo that game would have been out of sight in the first half. 

Corey Blackett-Taylor was the only midfielder looking to make something happen, their full backs were pish, every single time they had a runner to deal with they collapsed and we didn't capitalise on that or overload. 

I was annoyed with Gillingham too in a weird way, they just seemed to accept their fate. Vadaine Oliver dominates everyone and they could have made so much more of the knockdowns he got but they are shit.

We are only a bees dick less shit than them which is criminal given the disparity of resources 

Fair enough, Carter  & I know we'd all like, expect even, our team to be higher in the league & demolishing the likes of Gillingham.

But have you heard the saying " Mighty oaks from little acorns grow" ? 

The confidence in this squad must be minimal following so many poor performances that have seen us heading due south.

As such, last night will hopefully give us a foundation to build on - a new "start" to the season if it makes sense.

And, there's every reason to think  we could build on that small,  but perfectly formed foundation and grow like that oak tree....

...as long as we don't hold on to any dead wood. 

Then again, I hear you say, one swallow does not a summer make, a phrase coined by Arry Stotle, that well known twitcher. 

Yeah I agree, and I'm a big believer in the meritocracy of the football pyramid, we are in the same division as Gillingham, Accrington, Morecombe, Fleetwood and next year will be sharing it with Forest Green Rovers whose ground I am greatly looking  forward to visiting next season. 

What kills me though is the lack of anything resembling an attitude from our heroes in red. Even if its a fuck you attitude to us for giving them grief for that big wet dump they took on the pitch last Saturday. An "I'll show you" type vigour out of at least their own collective professional pride but they pedestrianed their way through another game and it shouldn't fool anyone 

I do admire your glass half full attitude auntie Fanny but these numbskulls have emptied me of that 

Players certainly looked like they were trying to me the other night.

JamesSeed

EveshamAddick said:

Carter said:

Fanny Fanackapan said:

Carter said:

Eurgh I hate feeling like this after s win 

We were bang average, Gillingham were poor. If we had moved the ball quickly and played with any degree of tempo that game would have been out of sight in the first half. 

Corey Blackett-Taylor was the only midfielder looking to make something happen, their full backs were pish, every single time they had a runner to deal with they collapsed and we didn't capitalise on that or overload. 

I was annoyed with Gillingham too in a weird way, they just seemed to accept their fate. Vadaine Oliver dominates everyone and they could have made so much more of the knockdowns he got but they are shit.

We are only a bees dick less shit than them which is criminal given the disparity of resources 

Fair enough, Carter  & I know we'd all like, expect even, our team to be higher in the league & demolishing the likes of Gillingham.

But have you heard the saying " Mighty oaks from little acorns grow" ? 

The confidence in this squad must be minimal following so many poor performances that have seen us heading due south.

As such, last night will hopefully give us a foundation to build on - a new "start" to the season if it makes sense.

And, there's every reason to think  we could build on that small,  but perfectly formed foundation and grow like that oak tree....

...as long as we don't hold on to any dead wood. 

Then again, I hear you say, one swallow does not a summer make, a phrase coined by Arry Stotle, that well known twitcher. 

Yeah I agree, and I'm a big believer in the meritocracy of the football pyramid, we are in the same division as Gillingham, Accrington, Morecombe, Fleetwood and next year will be sharing it with Forest Green Rovers whose ground I am greatly looking  forward to visiting next season. 

What kills me though is the lack of anything resembling an attitude from our heroes in red. Even if its a fuck you attitude to us for giving them grief for that big wet dump they took on the pitch last Saturday. An "I'll show you" type vigour out of at least their own collective professional pride but they pedestrianed their way through another game and it shouldn't fool anyone 

I do admire your glass half full attitude auntie Fanny but these numbskulls have emptied me of that 

Players certainly looked like they were trying to me the other night.

Me too. There isn’t a massive amount of quality in the side, but they’ll win their fair shares of games if they put a real shift in, as evidenced by the initial Jacko bounce. The problems arise when they get comfortable. 

This really is a massively important summer in terms of recruitment. No one wants to become known as a League One club with Championship aspirations. 

cabbles

I think Gilbey should be a squad player next season 

If Jackson wants to go with 3 in the middle as he has been, for me, that’s Dobson, Fraser and one other.  The other isn’t JFC imo.

JFC/Gilbey keep them as squad players 

Not 100% sure about our forward line of Aneke, Stockley and Washington if he stays.  It’s okay, but Aneke isn’t consistent with fitness, and the other two are decent, but when I think of a promotion winning forward, I think of Kermorgant, Lyle Taylor and for goal scoring ability alone, BWP.

That’s the bar and we know it is because we’ve seen those players go on to achieve promotion.  

At the moment, on here, we’ve got a lot of ‘I think he can better’ or ‘he may be able to do a job’, ‘this can be taught’

to a certain extent yes, players can improve and work on their games, but Kermorgant, Taylor and if you want to compare midfielders, Bielik, Cullen and Aribo were a cut above on what we have now.  That’s why we got promoted.

The players we’ve got in the squad at the moment, even the so called better ones, are a level down those I mention above.  

It’s all opinion, but I remain to be convinced, even with better players around them, that our current crop of ‘better’ players are able to do the business 

Cardinal Sin

Davo55 said:

A real mixed set of views on Sam Lavelle last night. He was certainly much improved later in the game and (it has been pointed out to me) that coincided with Pearcey coming on. Sam’s still young and benefits greatly from having that experience and support alongside him. 

He had to step up in the central position as the only centre-half in the defensive line. I thought he did that well and controlled the offside line well communicating strongly with Purrington and Clare. He is still learning the game. Oliver may be better than him in the air but how many headers did Oliver get on target? 

Cardinal Sin

Cafc43v3r said:

I'll chuck my $0.02 in about Gilbey.  All things considered I would put Gilbey in our top 10 players, I think.

If you exclude Aneke and Inniss he might be closer to top 5.

Is Gilbey as good as Cullen, Bielik and Aribo or Stephens, Hollands and Jackson?    Nope. 

Is he better than Pratley, Morgan, Reeves, Lapslie, Marshall, Hughes, Russell, Wagstaff et al? Possibly.

Point being we won't not get promoted next season because Gilbey is in our squad, nor will we get promoted because Gilbey is in our squad.  There are at least 15 other problems to deal with before we jog him on.

He isn't the answer but he isn't the problem either. 

Great when he wants to know. Goes missing 80% of the time. Simply not good enough at any level.

Dazzler21

There's a lot of over inflations of the truth on Charlton life at the moment. 

Whether it's over stating how poor we are (hard to do but some manage it) or over stating how good a win was. The reality is we have underachieved but people have a right to feel relieved especially when Gillingham looked another potential banana skin. 

Fact is we won and didn't look like conceding bar a CB taking two rushed shots. Players looked more together until Lee came on and the return of CBT, Washington and Stockley has boosted morale. Gilbey as an example works harder when Washington and Stockley are in the side. We get more balls in the box when we have wingers playing and Stockley up front. 

If we have our core side coming back together and continue to lose, Jackson's role will feel untenable to many.

Whether TS is one of those is the only question that matters. 

(p.s PLEASE GET A CEO IN THOMAS - They will highlight the main (TK) problem at the club I know this seems irrelevant to the rest but feels so important to me)

SouthWest_Addicks

@cabbles Mentioned into you on Tuesday, can’t see a Powell summer at all this transfers window. Expecting it to be more Robinson 17/8. Bringing a couple players to improve the quality (Fosu, Clarke, Reeves, Marshall etc)

Expecting 10 of that starting 11 from Tuesday to be at Charlton next season (Matthews  aside). 

Getting a settled back 5 is more important than trying to shift the likes of Gilbey off etc IMO.

Chunes

Got no problem with Gilbey being a squad player but as other posters have said before, part of our problem over the past few season is having too many players who are squad standard and too few standouts.

cabbles

Chunes said:

Got no problem with Gilbey being a squad player but as other posters have said before, part of our problem over the past few season is having too many players who are squad standard and too few standouts.

Exactly.  And then we go through this mental arithmetic of trying talk up their ability when it probably isn’t good enough 

MuttleyCAFC

cabbles said:

Chunes said:

Got no problem with Gilbey being a squad player but as other posters have said before, part of our problem over the past few season is having too many players who are squad standard and too few standouts.

Exactly.  And then we go through this mental arithmetic of trying talk up their ability when it probably isn’t good enough 

I actually disagree with that. I think our problem is having too many who are not good enough in reserve. Whether Gilbey is a squad player or first team player will be down to him largely but I wouldn't say he wasn't good enough to stake his claim and that is what we should be looking for as part of our squad.

My reaction was to posts recently saying we should get rid which I think would be a mistake.

Six-a-bag-of-nuts

We lack leaders and game changers. There is no character or charisma.
The players we bring in need to be qualitative step up from recent recruits.
We need Fraser level and above and the loans need to match that quality not be makeshift number-boosters.
I would venture to suggest that even if we had suffered no injuries this season we still wouldn't be troubling the top 2 and arguably the top 6

MuttleyCAFC

That is what Jacko has to do. Work out what we are missing. And I expect it is more than one thing. Let's hope he gets it right.

grumpyaddick

MuttleyCAFC said:

That is what Jacko has to do. Work out what we are missing. And I expect it is more than one thing. Let's hope he gets it right.

What makes you think Jackson will play a significant role in recruitment ?

He hasn't up to now. 

Cafc43v3r

Chunes said:

Got no problem with Gilbey being a squad player but as other posters have said before, part of our problem over the past few season is having too many players who are squad standard and too few standouts.

That's exactly the issue.  At the same time your going to have to bring in about 10 players just to replace the loans, Watson, Souare, Henderson. 

Based on the last 3 windows, although I appreciate there were reasons, I honestly don't think we will bring in 10 "standouts" and signing squad players to replace our squad players seems a waste of time and resource. 

If all the "new" players we signed in the summer were brilliant and we were in the bottom half just because of the legacy ones I might think differently.  Even keeping Watson, Matthews etc wouldn't have mattered.  Our summer recruitment screwed us, which ever way you look at it. 

MuttleyCAFC

grumpyaddick said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

That is what Jacko has to do. Work out what we are missing. And I expect it is more than one thing. Let's hope he gets it right.

What makes you think Jackson will play a significant role in recruitment ?

He hasn't up to now. 

Because I hope the club has learned from its mistakes. You would hope it is a joint effort but jacko and his team has to be best placed to know what is needed.

soapy_jones

MuttleyCAFC said:

grumpyaddick said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

That is what Jacko has to do. Work out what we are missing. And I expect it is more than one thing. Let's hope he gets it right.

What makes you think Jackson will play a significant role in recruitment ?

He hasn't up to now. 

Because I hope the club has learned from its mistakes. You would hope it is a joint effort but jacko and his team has to be best placed to know what is needed.

What makes you think Jacko will be here?

One underwhelming performance against the pony worriers can not hide his tactical naivety.

I want him to stay and build a team but I reckon TS is approaching shit or get off the pot time.

MuttleyCAFC

I do't know whether he will be here or not. I do think we need a bit of continuity and not another reset though. 

Exiled_Addick

cabbles said:

I think Gilbey should be a squad player next season 

If Jackson wants to go with 3 in the middle as he has been, for me, that’s Dobson, Fraser and one other.  The other isn’t JFC imo.

JFC/Gilbey keep them as squad players 

Not 100% sure about our forward line of Aneke, Stockley and Washington if he stays.  It’s okay, but Aneke isn’t consistent with fitness, and the other two are decent, but when I think of a promotion winning forward, I think of Kermorgant, Lyle Taylor and for goal scoring ability alone, BWP.

That’s the bar and we know it is because we’ve seen those players go on to achieve promotion.  

At the moment, on here, we’ve got a lot of ‘I think he can better’ or ‘he may be able to do a job’, ‘this can be taught’

to a certain extent yes, players can improve and work on their games, but Kermorgant, Taylor and if you want to compare midfielders, Bielik, Cullen and Aribo were a cut above on what we have now.  That’s why we got promoted.

The players we’ve got in the squad at the moment, even the so called better ones, are a level down those I mention above.  

It’s all opinion, but I remain to be convinced, even with better players around them, that our current crop of ‘better’ players are able to do the business 

I agree on the forwards, none of them are bad players and all have their merits but I don’t think it’s a promotion winning front line. 

Aneke we just need to use as an impact sub. It’s not ideal but he is very effective off the bench and can win us points without putting too much strain on his body. It’s the way get the most out of him most consistently. 

Then I think you make a choice between Washington and Stockley and try to bring in a really good 20 goal striker to complement the one you either sell or make into a squad player. Toss up for me who you keep both have their pros a cons. Washington is probably a bit better at what he does but he too has become a bit injury prone on the quiet. 

MuttleyCAFC

Aneke, Stockley and Washington you keep. Then you bring a couple in but ones that can compete with them for places. If you are going to play two up front whatever, that has to be a minimum.