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Who do we think we are?
lancashire lad
Posts: 15,629
All I seem to hear on here these days is criticism of owner, management and players as if we are not living up to the high standards of a top class team. We are not a top class team in the last 13 years we have been in League One more than in any other league. Palarse are an established Premiership team and Millwall are an established Championship team which leaves us as an aspiring League One team along with a number of other ex "big" teams.
OK we are not playing the best football in the world but we are only one of many clubs in the third tier and the club deserve our support to help it rise to the level of Millwall and maybe one day Palarse - that is the reality
OK we are not playing the best football in the world but we are only one of many clubs in the third tier and the club deserve our support to help it rise to the level of Millwall and maybe one day Palarse - that is the reality
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Comments
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Don’t disagree with much of that but football can change very quickly.It was only three years ago we were beating Luton in this league. Couple of seasons later, they are 4th in the Championship with a very real chance of Premier League football next season.
Go back five years more and they were in non-league!
Having aspirations is not a crime but we have to face the reality of where the team is today. Thinking we are above this level is a strategy that ensures you’ll make it very hard to escape. Ask Sheffield United fans what their six consecutive seasons down here were like.3 -
What a bizarre opening post. Who's criticising for not being top class? We're criticising as we're 16th in League One. If you don't think that we're underperforming, and therefore deserve to be criticised, then you need your head tested.45
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It'll always be a factor in the English / European game for all but the elite.Callumcafc said:Don’t disagree with much of that but football can change very quickly.It was only three years ago we were beating Luton in this league. Couple of seasons later, they are 4th in the Championship with a very real chance of Premier League football next season.
Go back five years more and they were in non-league!
Having aspirations is not a crime but we have to face the reality of where the team is today. Thinking we are above this level is a strategy that ensures you’ll make it very hard to escape.
Never understood the complaints that we're now up against pub teams (Urgh hate hate HATE that turn of phrase) of Accrington, its a little frustration that this is position we find ourselves in - But we could stay a Premier League team, and still end up against the likes of Accrington, its the beauty of promotion / relegation in this country.
Would hate the alternative of a closed shop League like the MLS
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And the beginning of settling for mediocrity begins.
We have always been a club looking up and hoping to rise. At the moment we are going backwards.
We should not be sitting in midtable/lower midtable with the finance and structure we have in place. Of course it may happen for a season, but it shouldn't be the norm or accepted as fine.
Something has badly gone wrong this year and we shouldn't just throw our hands up and accept that this is where we are.
Even under Roland and ESI we weren't as bad on the pitch as we are now.4 -
Especially as many of those teams now are well drilled, fit, and play high tempo quick football - even in the leagues below us (Sutton, Gateshead etc).ForeverAddickted said:
It'll always be a factor in the English / European game for all but the elite.Callumcafc said:Don’t disagree with much of that but football can change very quickly.It was only three years ago we were beating Luton in this league. Couple of seasons later, they are 4th in the Championship with a very real chance of Premier League football next season.
Go back five years more and they were in non-league!
Having aspirations is not a crime but we have to face the reality of where the team is today. Thinking we are above this level is a strategy that ensures you’ll make it very hard to escape.
Never understood the complaints that we're now up against pub teams (Urgh hate hate HATE that turn of phrase) of Accrington, its a little frustration that this is position we find ourselves in - But we could stay a Premier League team, and still end up against the likes of Accrington, its the beauty of promotion / relegation in this country.
Would hate the alternative of a closed shop League like the MLS
Yes there is some utter dross in League One, but even teams like AFC Wimbledon tend to try and play football.1 -
We're on a site discussing Charlton.
Charlton aren't doing very well.
That leads naturally to criticism about the way the players are playing, the signings we're making etc.
Is this not also the best place to discuss performances, bad free ticket schemes etc?
If and when we turn this around, the site will be more positive, it was in the past in times of success.5 -
We’ve a new owner and I think it’s come as quite a shock to him just what a state the club was in. Think he has been nieve and a bit unlucky. Don’t think he’s done much wrong apart from being too soft. Under his regime he’s had two club legends as managers and the only appointment he’s made outside of that was a disaster that nobody could seen coming. There was a clamour to appoint Jackson and had he not been appointed I think that the fans would have turned on Sandgaard. I think TS now needs to show a ruthless streak and this summer make wholesale changes and start again. I still think we’re lucky to have Thomas as owner but this is an important moment for the club.18
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"Even under ESI we weren't as bad on the pitch as we are now"SELR_addicks said:And the beginning of settling for mediocrity begins.
We have always been a club looking up and hoping to rise. At the moment we are going backwards.
We should not be sitting in midtable/lower midtable with the finance and structure we have in place. Of course it may happen for a season, but it shouldn't be the norm or accepted as fine.
Something has badly gone wrong this year and we shouldn't just throw our hands up and accept that this is where we are.
Even under Roland and ESI we weren't as bad on the pitch as we are now.
Are you serious???
Thats like Torquay fans saying that Leroy Rosenior did a better job as Manager as their current lot in the National League - I dont give a flying fuck how we did on the pitch under ESI, they were taking us in one pissing direction.
The only reason we didnt do so badly on the pitch under those bastards was because of the squad that Bowyer and Gallen had put together prior to them coming in - They then managed to scrimp and beg other clubs for loan players, even though ESI had put us in a transfer embargo.
They did NOTHING but take take take4 -
You need to learn from well run clubs and we're certainly not in that category at present. TS might be a nice guy but he needs to employ the right people otherwise we're going nowhere.
There are plenty of better run clubs in L1 and L2 - this is not simply a matter of budget.9 -
One of the better Spice Girls songs10
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The whole point is that with literally zero money and crooks for owners, we managed to have a better fist of a season.ForeverAddickted said:
"Even under ESI we weren't as bad on the pitch as we are now"SELR_addicks said:And the beginning of settling for mediocrity begins.
We have always been a club looking up and hoping to rise. At the moment we are going backwards.
We should not be sitting in midtable/lower midtable with the finance and structure we have in place. Of course it may happen for a season, but it shouldn't be the norm or accepted as fine.
Something has badly gone wrong this year and we shouldn't just throw our hands up and accept that this is where we are.
Even under Roland and ESI we weren't as bad on the pitch as we are now.
Are you serious???
Thats like Torquay fans saying that Leroy Rosenior did a better job as Manager as their current lot in the National League - I dont give a flying fuck how we did on the pitch under ESI, they were taking us in one pissing direction.
The only reason we didnt do so badly on the pitch under those bastards was because of the squad that Bowyer and Gallen had put together prior to them coming in - They then managed to scrimp and beg other clubs for loan players, even though ESI had put us in a transfer embargo.
They did NOTHING but take take take
Even with basically a bargain bucket of players on a shoestring budget, we only got relegated thanks to covid and a single game.
It points to something going badly wrong this season. TS has spent money, he's signed players, he's signed coaches, it all amounts to absolutely nothing other than potentially the worst season in our recent history.
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Really peculiar post. People will still spend their money travelling the country or making it to the valley to support their team, but they are well within their rights to criticise what's currently going on at the club. In fact, id go as far to say, that we have become too complacent with shit football being served up to us.11
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It is not bizarre it is reality and I could say that your comment is bizarre as are those that "like" it but I won't as we are all entitled to our opinion. Please tell me where I said that I didn't think we are underperforming, that in itself is bizarre.Croydon said:What a bizarre opening post. Who's criticising for not being top class? We're criticising as we're 16th in League One. If you don't think that we're underperforming, and therefore deserve to be criticised, then you need your head tested.0 -
we are a club in need of a VERY VERY rich owner/patron to push us on .. money = superb training/medical facilities, top class players, quality catering, decent car parks, comfy away travel etc. etc. etc .. all the thing big and small that makes a successful, consistent, winning football club, it's that simple, yet that difficult
I came within 5 numbers of winning last night's Euro Lottery lol .. I would have bunged in a few million given a win .. BUT, nowadays it take a LOT more than just 'a' few million' to make a huge long term difference
SOOO .. we are what we are, a mid table L1 club with champagne ambitions but only beer money0 -
I'm sorry I genuinely dont get your point - The whole basis of your argument about being worse now than what we were under ESI appears down to the fact that we were a Championship club then, and are a League One club now.SELR_addicks said:
The whole point is that with literally zero money and crooks for owners, we managed to have a better fist of a season.ForeverAddickted said:
"Even under ESI we weren't as bad on the pitch as we are now"SELR_addicks said:And the beginning of settling for mediocrity begins.
We have always been a club looking up and hoping to rise. At the moment we are going backwards.
We should not be sitting in midtable/lower midtable with the finance and structure we have in place. Of course it may happen for a season, but it shouldn't be the norm or accepted as fine.
Something has badly gone wrong this year and we shouldn't just throw our hands up and accept that this is where we are.
Even under Roland and ESI we weren't as bad on the pitch as we are now.
Are you serious???
Thats like Torquay fans saying that Leroy Rosenior did a better job as Manager as their current lot in the National League - I dont give a flying fuck how we did on the pitch under ESI, they were taking us in one pissing direction.
The only reason we didnt do so badly on the pitch under those bastards was because of the squad that Bowyer and Gallen had put together prior to them coming in - They then managed to scrimp and beg other clubs for loan players, even though ESI had put us in a transfer embargo.
They did NOTHING but take take take
Even with basically a bargain bucket of players on a shoestring budget, we only got relegated thanks to covid and a single game.
It points to something going badly wrong this season. TS has spent money, he's signed players, he's signed coaches, it all amounts to absolutely nothing other than potentially the worst season in our recent history.
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I saw games under ESI. I saw games under Sandgaard this season.ForeverAddickted said:
I'm sorry I genuinely dont get your point - The whole basis of your argument about being worse now than what we were under ESI appears down to the fact that we were a Championship club then, and are a League One club now.SELR_addicks said:
The whole point is that with literally zero money and crooks for owners, we managed to have a better fist of a season.ForeverAddickted said:
"Even under ESI we weren't as bad on the pitch as we are now"SELR_addicks said:And the beginning of settling for mediocrity begins.
We have always been a club looking up and hoping to rise. At the moment we are going backwards.
We should not be sitting in midtable/lower midtable with the finance and structure we have in place. Of course it may happen for a season, but it shouldn't be the norm or accepted as fine.
Something has badly gone wrong this year and we shouldn't just throw our hands up and accept that this is where we are.
Even under Roland and ESI we weren't as bad on the pitch as we are now.
Are you serious???
Thats like Torquay fans saying that Leroy Rosenior did a better job as Manager as their current lot in the National League - I dont give a flying fuck how we did on the pitch under ESI, they were taking us in one pissing direction.
The only reason we didnt do so badly on the pitch under those bastards was because of the squad that Bowyer and Gallen had put together prior to them coming in - They then managed to scrimp and beg other clubs for loan players, even though ESI had put us in a transfer embargo.
They did NOTHING but take take take
Even with basically a bargain bucket of players on a shoestring budget, we only got relegated thanks to covid and a single game.
It points to something going badly wrong this season. TS has spent money, he's signed players, he's signed coaches, it all amounts to absolutely nothing other than potentially the worst season in our recent history.
One of those teams would beat the other.
"Even under Roland and ESI we weren't as bad on the pitch as we are now" - is a true statement. Notice the words 'on the pitch'.
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In fairness he did say under Roland and ESI. And under Roland we got promoted out of this division.ForeverAddickted said:
I'm sorry I genuinely dont get your point - The whole basis of your argument about being worse now than what we were under ESI appears down to the fact that we were a Championship club then, and are a League One club now.SELR_addicks said:
The whole point is that with literally zero money and crooks for owners, we managed to have a better fist of a season.ForeverAddickted said:
"Even under ESI we weren't as bad on the pitch as we are now"SELR_addicks said:And the beginning of settling for mediocrity begins.
We have always been a club looking up and hoping to rise. At the moment we are going backwards.
We should not be sitting in midtable/lower midtable with the finance and structure we have in place. Of course it may happen for a season, but it shouldn't be the norm or accepted as fine.
Something has badly gone wrong this year and we shouldn't just throw our hands up and accept that this is where we are.
Even under Roland and ESI we weren't as bad on the pitch as we are now.
Are you serious???
Thats like Torquay fans saying that Leroy Rosenior did a better job as Manager as their current lot in the National League - I dont give a flying fuck how we did on the pitch under ESI, they were taking us in one pissing direction.
The only reason we didnt do so badly on the pitch under those bastards was because of the squad that Bowyer and Gallen had put together prior to them coming in - They then managed to scrimp and beg other clubs for loan players, even though ESI had put us in a transfer embargo.
They did NOTHING but take take take
Even with basically a bargain bucket of players on a shoestring budget, we only got relegated thanks to covid and a single game.
It points to something going badly wrong this season. TS has spent money, he's signed players, he's signed coaches, it all amounts to absolutely nothing other than potentially the worst season in our recent history.2 -
ESI were taking us in one direction..... standards were slipping on the pitch. Off the pitch. There was no clear sign of a rosy future. It was a shitshow all over.
Tommy has....... er - shit, hang on a minute. Played a guitar in the pub and hired his kid?1 -
I agree that we need to cut Thomas some slack.ShootersHillGuru said:We’ve a new owner and I think it’s come as quite a shock to him just what a state the club was in. Think he has been nieve and a bit unlucky. Don’t think he’s done much wrong apart from being too soft. Under his regime he’s had two club legends as managers and the only appointment he’s made outside of that was a disaster that nobody could seen coming. There was a clamour to appoint Jackson and had he not been appointed I think that the fans would have turned on Sandgaard. I think TS now needs to show a ruthless streak and this summer make wholesale changes and start again. I still think we’re lucky to have Thomas as owner but this is an important moment for the club.
Much of the criticism about TS has been about his initial hype and his (unrealistic) five year plan. What was he supposed to say after taking over the club? If he had said his plans were to put the club on a sound footing for steady growth he would have got pelters too! Many also seem to criticize him for not having as much money as they would like! We all would like limitless cash to throw at the team, but that is not realistic. There are very few owners in that position. As far as I am concerned it is much better having an owner who seems to actually care and who shows his face. The whole atmosphere since TS took over feels so much better than the Roland days to me.
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Yes because apart from Green | McGeady | Smith | Davis... the squad was already in place before ESI came on board - I know we're talking about matters on the pitch. But I feel that ESI are being given too much credit, simply because we were a Championship team then, and a League One team nowSELR_addicks said:
I saw games under ESI. I saw games under Sandgaard this season.ForeverAddickted said:
I'm sorry I genuinely dont get your point - The whole basis of your argument about being worse now than what we were under ESI appears down to the fact that we were a Championship club then, and are a League One club now.SELR_addicks said:
The whole point is that with literally zero money and crooks for owners, we managed to have a better fist of a season.ForeverAddickted said:
"Even under ESI we weren't as bad on the pitch as we are now"SELR_addicks said:And the beginning of settling for mediocrity begins.
We have always been a club looking up and hoping to rise. At the moment we are going backwards.
We should not be sitting in midtable/lower midtable with the finance and structure we have in place. Of course it may happen for a season, but it shouldn't be the norm or accepted as fine.
Something has badly gone wrong this year and we shouldn't just throw our hands up and accept that this is where we are.
Even under Roland and ESI we weren't as bad on the pitch as we are now.
Are you serious???
Thats like Torquay fans saying that Leroy Rosenior did a better job as Manager as their current lot in the National League - I dont give a flying fuck how we did on the pitch under ESI, they were taking us in one pissing direction.
The only reason we didnt do so badly on the pitch under those bastards was because of the squad that Bowyer and Gallen had put together prior to them coming in - They then managed to scrimp and beg other clubs for loan players, even though ESI had put us in a transfer embargo.
They did NOTHING but take take take
Even with basically a bargain bucket of players on a shoestring budget, we only got relegated thanks to covid and a single game.
It points to something going badly wrong this season. TS has spent money, he's signed players, he's signed coaches, it all amounts to absolutely nothing other than potentially the worst season in our recent history.
One of those teams would beat the other.
"Even under Roland and ESI we weren't as bad on the pitch as we are now" - is a true statement. Notice the words 'on the pitch'.1 -
I don't really care about ESI. They're obviously crooks.ForeverAddickted said:
Yes because apart from Green | McGeady | Smith | Davis... the squad was already in place before ESI came on board - I know we're talking about matters on the pitch. But I feel that ESI are being given too much credit, simply because we were a Championship team then, and a League One team nowSELR_addicks said:
I saw games under ESI. I saw games under Sandgaard this season.ForeverAddickted said:
I'm sorry I genuinely dont get your point - The whole basis of your argument about being worse now than what we were under ESI appears down to the fact that we were a Championship club then, and are a League One club now.SELR_addicks said:
The whole point is that with literally zero money and crooks for owners, we managed to have a better fist of a season.ForeverAddickted said:
"Even under ESI we weren't as bad on the pitch as we are now"SELR_addicks said:And the beginning of settling for mediocrity begins.
We have always been a club looking up and hoping to rise. At the moment we are going backwards.
We should not be sitting in midtable/lower midtable with the finance and structure we have in place. Of course it may happen for a season, but it shouldn't be the norm or accepted as fine.
Something has badly gone wrong this year and we shouldn't just throw our hands up and accept that this is where we are.
Even under Roland and ESI we weren't as bad on the pitch as we are now.
Are you serious???
Thats like Torquay fans saying that Leroy Rosenior did a better job as Manager as their current lot in the National League - I dont give a flying fuck how we did on the pitch under ESI, they were taking us in one pissing direction.
The only reason we didnt do so badly on the pitch under those bastards was because of the squad that Bowyer and Gallen had put together prior to them coming in - They then managed to scrimp and beg other clubs for loan players, even though ESI had put us in a transfer embargo.
They did NOTHING but take take take
Even with basically a bargain bucket of players on a shoestring budget, we only got relegated thanks to covid and a single game.
It points to something going badly wrong this season. TS has spent money, he's signed players, he's signed coaches, it all amounts to absolutely nothing other than potentially the worst season in our recent history.
One of those teams would beat the other.
"Even under Roland and ESI we weren't as bad on the pitch as we are now" - is a true statement. Notice the words 'on the pitch'.
The whole point of my post is this bit:
"We should not be sitting in midtable/lower midtable with the finance and structure we have in place. Of course it may happen for a season, but it shouldn't be the norm or accepted as fine.
Something has badly gone wrong this year and we shouldn't just throw our hands up and accept that this is where we are. "
You trying to pick apart a true phrase because you don't like it, while ignoring the bigger point.2 -
Leave the fucking dramatics out of it then!!SELR_addicks said:
I don't really care about ESI. They're obviously crooks.ForeverAddickted said:
Yes because apart from Green | McGeady | Smith | Davis... the squad was already in place before ESI came on board - I know we're talking about matters on the pitch. But I feel that ESI are being given too much credit, simply because we were a Championship team then, and a League One team nowSELR_addicks said:
I saw games under ESI. I saw games under Sandgaard this season.ForeverAddickted said:
I'm sorry I genuinely dont get your point - The whole basis of your argument about being worse now than what we were under ESI appears down to the fact that we were a Championship club then, and are a League One club now.SELR_addicks said:
The whole point is that with literally zero money and crooks for owners, we managed to have a better fist of a season.ForeverAddickted said:
"Even under ESI we weren't as bad on the pitch as we are now"SELR_addicks said:And the beginning of settling for mediocrity begins.
We have always been a club looking up and hoping to rise. At the moment we are going backwards.
We should not be sitting in midtable/lower midtable with the finance and structure we have in place. Of course it may happen for a season, but it shouldn't be the norm or accepted as fine.
Something has badly gone wrong this year and we shouldn't just throw our hands up and accept that this is where we are.
Even under Roland and ESI we weren't as bad on the pitch as we are now.
Are you serious???
Thats like Torquay fans saying that Leroy Rosenior did a better job as Manager as their current lot in the National League - I dont give a flying fuck how we did on the pitch under ESI, they were taking us in one pissing direction.
The only reason we didnt do so badly on the pitch under those bastards was because of the squad that Bowyer and Gallen had put together prior to them coming in - They then managed to scrimp and beg other clubs for loan players, even though ESI had put us in a transfer embargo.
They did NOTHING but take take take
Even with basically a bargain bucket of players on a shoestring budget, we only got relegated thanks to covid and a single game.
It points to something going badly wrong this season. TS has spent money, he's signed players, he's signed coaches, it all amounts to absolutely nothing other than potentially the worst season in our recent history.
One of those teams would beat the other.
"Even under Roland and ESI we weren't as bad on the pitch as we are now" - is a true statement. Notice the words 'on the pitch'.
The whole point of my post is this bit:
"We should not be sitting in midtable/lower midtable with the finance and structure we have in place. Of course it may happen for a season, but it shouldn't be the norm or accepted as fine.
Something has badly gone wrong this year and we shouldn't just throw our hands up and accept that this is where we are. "
You trying to pick apart a true phrase because you don't like it, while ignoring the bigger point.
Funnily I'm not bothered by the rest, and agree with it - Hence why I'm not arguing that1 -
I mean, the same club and supporters that frothed at the mouth in anger at Rolly for not investing in January and pushing on to playoffs in the champ?
I think thats us, right?1 -
We had our best years in more recent times when everybody in the club was singing from the same hymn sheet ...... directors, managing staff, players and supporters.
We formed our own political party to pave the way for a return to The Valley. We rebuilt the stadium. We won promotion to the Premier League, relegated and returned next season as Champions. We even established ourselves in the Prem for a number of seasons, regularly taking the scalps of famous 'super clubs'. We were regarded throughout football as the 'model club'. We did it. Together.
All things must pass and eventually the wheels fell off.
The return of Chris Powell, after a false start but ending in a record breaking title winning season, albeit in the Third Division made us believe once more.
Once more, we were again a club 'all singing from the same hymn sheet'.
We need to be a club again. All together. It's a proven recipe for success.
Right now as a club we appear to be broken and divided, just like in Chris Powell's first season.
We've been here before. We know what's needed.
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what do you mean, broken and divided? Are there people at the club that don't want success and some that do?Oggy Red said:We had our best years in more recent times when everybody in the club was singing from the same hymn sheet ...... directors, managing staff, players and supporters.
We formed our own political party to pave the way for a return to The Valley. We rebuilt the stadium. We won promotion to the Premier League, relegated and returned next season as Champions. We even established ourselves in the Prem for a number of seasons, regularly taking the scalps of famous 'super clubs'. We were regarded throughout football as the 'model club'. We did it. Together.
All things must pass and eventually the wheels fell off.
The return of Chris Powell, after a false start but ending in a record breaking title winning season, albeit in the Third Division made us believe once more.
Once more, we were again a club 'all singing from the same hymn sheet'.
We need to be a club again. All together. It's a proven recipe for success.
Right now as a club we appear to be broken and divided, just like in Chris Powell's first season.
We've been here before. We know what's needed.
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Fan's at every club are pretty much the same.
When the team is successful they are happy.
When the team is largely shite they will have a moan.
As we are heading for our lowest league position in living memory I think it's quite natural for fans to have the hump.
I renewed my season ticket yesterday and still go to plenty of away games so my support for the club is still there.
But if I want to come on here and have a moan I will do just that.7 -
Bizarre Warslancashire lad said:
It is not bizarre it is reality and I could say that your comment is bizarre as are those that "like" it but I won't as we are all entitled to our opinion. Please tell me where I said that I didn't think we are underperforming, that in itself is bizarre.Croydon said:What a bizarre opening post. Who's criticising for not being top class? We're criticising as we're 16th in League One. If you don't think that we're underperforming, and therefore deserve to be criticised, then you need your head tested.4 -
Your whole post is about how we shouldn't be criticising, and basically alluding to the fact that league one is our level. Now you're agreeing we are underperforming, which in itself is a criticism. So which is it?lancashire lad said:
It is not bizarre it is reality and I could say that your comment is bizarre as are those that "like" it but I won't as we are all entitled to our opinion. Please tell me where I said that I didn't think we are underperforming, that in itself is bizarre.Croydon said:What a bizarre opening post. Who's criticising for not being top class? We're criticising as we're 16th in League One. If you don't think that we're underperforming, and therefore deserve to be criticised, then you need your head tested.2 -
The "problem" is two pronged. One of which is true and one of which isn't.
People look at our stadium and the number of people and look at the teams we play and their stadiums and gates. Most of which would actually fit in one of our stands. People think, wrongly, it means we have more money for better players etc etc. Ignoring the fact our overheads, and losses, dwarf 90% of teams at this level.
The valid reason is we have an owner who is rich enough to make this work, to a degree, who has publicly stated his ambition and thrown enough money at it. He has made a pigs ear of it, on the pitch at least.
If we were rescued from ESI by a group of fans who re mortgaged their houses and didn't have a pot to piss in the reaction would be completely different.
The reality is every season we spend in this division the closer to oblivion we become and it wasn't the fans that said we would blow this league out the water.
People are pissed off because the, very expensive, players are shit and the club have over promised and under delivered.4
https://youtu.be/3DxlDankKsw
