second thoughts after posting, looked like a dead sea scrolls read!! However, regarding the New Zealand smoking laws, read an in depth report in the Mail on Line, makes interesting read, but rather long!!
Minimum age for drinking to be increased by one year, every year.
No one sensible can think it's a bad idea.
Just a thought.
As a sometime smoker but a tea total drinker, I couldn't agree more.
Never quite understood why alcohol is considered perfectly fine, appreciate there's the passive element to smoking although that has mostly been eradicated since 2007, but drink causes far more health (and social) problems and always has.
If alcohol was discovered today, it would 100% be illegal.
100% agree, yet it's perfectly acceptable despite the damage it can do to the individual but more importantly society as a whole. Think the study was back in 2014 but the outcome was that 137 admissions an hour in the UK due to alcohol which was more than double that of smoking.
It was estimated the cost to the NHS through smoking was a staggering 5.2bn a year - but weigh that against alcohol and just the 11bn a year cost to the criminal justice system before even looking at the NHS cost on top.
Sadly I've seen the effect of smoking (my mother died of lung cancer despite giving up in her 30's and the doctor saying it was nothing to do with the fact she smoked 40 years before, I failed to believe it), and also the effect of alcohol, neither are pleasant but to me alcohol was far more reaching in it's negative effect.
Alcohol is approximately £3.5bn a year cost to the NHS.
Obesity is £5.1bn. Fine excessive eaters
Jokes aside if that's true obesity has now outstripped smoking for NHS cost! Wowzer, but don't worry, the sugar tax is sorting it
I mentioned this several times on the Covid thread, when obesity really kicks in the strain on the NHS will make Covid look like a walk in the park.
Minimum age for drinking to be increased by one year, every year.
No one sensible can think it's a bad idea.
Just a thought.
As a sometime smoker but a tea total drinker, I couldn't agree more.
Never quite understood why alcohol is considered perfectly fine, appreciate there's the passive element to smoking although that has mostly been eradicated since 2007, but drink causes far more health (and social) problems and always has.
If alcohol was discovered today, it would 100% be illegal.
100% agree, yet it's perfectly acceptable despite the damage it can do to the individual but more importantly society as a whole. Think the study was back in 2014 but the outcome was that 137 admissions an hour in the UK due to alcohol which was more than double that of smoking.
It was estimated the cost to the NHS through smoking was a staggering 5.2bn a year - but weigh that against alcohol and just the 11bn a year cost to the criminal justice system before even looking at the NHS cost on top.
Sadly I've seen the effect of smoking (my mother died of lung cancer despite giving up in her 30's and the doctor saying it was nothing to do with the fact she smoked 40 years before, I failed to believe it), and also the effect of alcohol, neither are pleasant but to me alcohol was far more reaching in it's negative effect.
Smoking also contributes about £11 billion to the treasury through tax.
If you were looking at it purely on economic value you would actually encourage smoking.
Actually, current figures put it closer to £10 billion (presumably an ever decreasing number as the number of smokers drop), while costs to the country range from £12.6bn to £17.1bn depending which report you read. Plus none of the reports have tried to put a figure on the social care costs of smokers with chronic conditions where that care is provided by family members rather than the NHS, so it could be argued those numbers are under-valued.
However, I always think the productivity lost figures are pulled out of thin air. Somebody taking regular smoke breaks can't necessarily be included in lost productivity figures. If someone wants to waste time or needs time away from their desk they'll invent a reason, whether that's a smoke break, a coffee break, longer trips to the loo, etc.
In 20 years time, it will be reported that vaping can damage your health.
Or maybe it won't. Only time will tell on that one. I smoked from the age of 12 and finally quit aged 48. Vaping was the only thing that done it for me. 7 years on and I still vape, but a vast improvement on my health. Vaping doesn't cause me any smoking related issues I was having.
Minimum age for drinking to be increased by one year, every year.
No one sensible can think it's a bad idea.
Just a thought.
As a sometime smoker but a tea total drinker, I couldn't agree more.
Never quite understood why alcohol is considered perfectly fine, appreciate there's the passive element to smoking although that has mostly been eradicated since 2007, but drink causes far more health (and social) problems and always has.
If alcohol was discovered today, it would 100% be illegal.
100% agree, yet it's perfectly acceptable despite the damage it can do to the individual but more importantly society as a whole. Think the study was back in 2014 but the outcome was that 137 admissions an hour in the UK due to alcohol which was more than double that of smoking.
It was estimated the cost to the NHS through smoking was a staggering 5.2bn a year - but weigh that against alcohol and just the 11bn a year cost to the criminal justice system before even looking at the NHS cost on top.
Sadly I've seen the effect of smoking (my mother died of lung cancer despite giving up in her 30's and the doctor saying it was nothing to do with the fact she smoked 40 years before, I failed to believe it), and also the effect of alcohol, neither are pleasant but to me alcohol was far more reaching in it's negative effect.
Alcohol is approximately £3.5bn a year cost to the NHS.
Obesity is £5.1bn. Fine excessive eaters
Jokes aside if that's true obesity has now outstripped smoking for NHS cost! Wowzer, but don't worry, the sugar tax is sorting it
I mentioned this several times on the Covid thread, when obesity really kicks in the strain on the NHS will make Covid look like a walk in the park.
Obesity can never match and compare with Covid in its effects on the NHS. Two different beasts. Obesity is and will be a drain on resources just like Covid but it can never overwhelm the NHS in the same way Covid did. Obese patients are not per se a risk to staff and other patients, apart from bariatric nursing measures and special equipment being required. Obesity is never going to fill A&E and ITU. You might well argue that cancer is a big a drain on the NHS. All completely different problems. Fund the NHS properly and you can minimise the chances of any situation being a straw that breaks the camels back. We were not prepared for Covid. We will be next time.
In 20 years time, it will be reported that vaping can damage your health.
Or maybe it won't. Only time will tell on that one. I smoked from the age of 12 and finally quit aged 48. Vaping was the only thing that done it for me. 7 years on and I still vape, but a vast improvement on my health. Vaping doesn't cause me any smoking related issues I was having.
I take it there is no nicotine in the vaping stuff then?
I was lucky that I literally gave up smoking overnight with the help of the 24hr patches for 3-4 weeks around 17-18 years ago now, so I thankfully missed the vaping stage but my brother is a vaper.
Minimum age for drinking to be increased by one year, every year.
No one sensible can think it's a bad idea.
Just a thought.
As a sometime smoker but a tea total drinker, I couldn't agree more.
Never quite understood why alcohol is considered perfectly fine, appreciate there's the passive element to smoking although that has mostly been eradicated since 2007, but drink causes far more health (and social) problems and always has.
If alcohol was discovered today, it would 100% be illegal.
100% agree, yet it's perfectly acceptable despite the damage it can do to the individual but more importantly society as a whole. Think the study was back in 2014 but the outcome was that 137 admissions an hour in the UK due to alcohol which was more than double that of smoking.
It was estimated the cost to the NHS through smoking was a staggering 5.2bn a year - but weigh that against alcohol and just the 11bn a year cost to the criminal justice system before even looking at the NHS cost on top.
Sadly I've seen the effect of smoking (my mother died of lung cancer despite giving up in her 30's and the doctor saying it was nothing to do with the fact she smoked 40 years before, I failed to believe it), and also the effect of alcohol, neither are pleasant but to me alcohol was far more reaching in it's negative effect.
Smoking also contributes about £11 billion to the treasury through tax.
If you were looking at it purely on economic value you would actually encourage smoking.
Actually, current figures put it closer to £10 billion (presumably an ever decreasing number as the number of smokers drop), while costs to the country range from £12.6bn to £17.1bn depending which report you read. Plus none of the reports have tried to put a figure on the social care costs of smokers with chronic conditions where that care is provided by family members rather than the NHS, so it could be argued those numbers are under-valued.
However, I always think the productivity lost figures are pulled out of thin air. Somebody taking regular smoke breaks can't necessarily be included in lost productivity figures. If someone wants to waste time or needs time away from their desk they'll invent a reason, whether that's a smoke break, a coffee break, longer trips to the loo, etc.
If you wanted to make it a purely financial argument (which it quite clearly isn't) you would also have to factor in the saving on smokers dying younger than non smokers.
The economic argument is completely separate from the public health one. If it was the same it would have been banned, completely 30 years ago.
After losing my Mum to lung cancer at the age of 56, it can only ever be a good thing. And I think anyone who has witnessed a loved one go through that would agree.
Amongst the last things she said to me, was that she regretted ever starting.
She also said if any of her grandchildren even think of picking up a fag she will send a lightning bolt down from the sky! That was the last joke she made.
I smoke and it really should be either as it is or completely banned. Saying you can smoke because you were born a year later than someone else (But both in their 30's lets say) is just ridiculous.
I barely drink, others chose to drink lots and it is completely their choice to do so.
They will not ban smoking and drinking because of the huge duty tax it brings in.
In 20 years time, it will be reported that vaping can damage your health.
Or maybe it won't. Only time will tell on that one. I smoked from the age of 12 and finally quit aged 48. Vaping was the only thing that done it for me. 7 years on and I still vape, but a vast improvement on my health. Vaping doesn't cause me any smoking related issues I was having.
I take it there is no nicotine in the vaping stuff then?
I was lucky that I literally gave up smoking overnight with the help of the 24hr patches for 3-4 weeks around 17-18 years ago now, so I thankfully missed the vaping stage but my brother is a vaper.
Depends what vape you smoke. You can get nicotine free ones but there are plenty of nicotine vapes.
Minimum age for drinking to be increased by one year, every year.
No one sensible can think it's a bad idea.
Just a thought.
As a sometime smoker but a tea total drinker, I couldn't agree more.
Never quite understood why alcohol is considered perfectly fine, appreciate there's the passive element to smoking although that has mostly been eradicated since 2007, but drink causes far more health (and social) problems and always has.
If alcohol was discovered today, it would 100% be illegal.
100% agree, yet it's perfectly acceptable despite the damage it can do to the individual but more importantly society as a whole. Think the study was back in 2014 but the outcome was that 137 admissions an hour in the UK due to alcohol which was more than double that of smoking.
It was estimated the cost to the NHS through smoking was a staggering 5.2bn a year - but weigh that against alcohol and just the 11bn a year cost to the criminal justice system before even looking at the NHS cost on top.
Sadly I've seen the effect of smoking (my mother died of lung cancer despite giving up in her 30's and the doctor saying it was nothing to do with the fact she smoked 40 years before, I failed to believe it), and also the effect of alcohol, neither are pleasant but to me alcohol was far more reaching in it's negative effect.
Smoking also contributes about £11 billion to the treasury through tax.
If you were looking at it purely on economic value you would actually encourage smoking.
Actually, current figures put it closer to £10 billion (presumably an ever decreasing number as the number of smokers drop), while costs to the country range from £12.6bn to £17.1bn depending which report you read. Plus none of the reports have tried to put a figure on the social care costs of smokers with chronic conditions where that care is provided by family members rather than the NHS, so it could be argued those numbers are under-valued.
However, I always think the productivity lost figures are pulled out of thin air. Somebody taking regular smoke breaks can't necessarily be included in lost productivity figures. If someone wants to waste time or needs time away from their desk they'll invent a reason, whether that's a smoke break, a coffee break, longer trips to the loo, etc.
If you wanted to make it a purely financial argument (which it quite clearly isn't) you would also have to factor in the saving on smokers dying younger than non smokers.
The economic argument is completely separate from the public health one. If it was the same it would have been banned, completely 30 years ago.
Definitely don't want to make it a purely financial argument, just responding to the claim that it would be encouraged on purely economic grounds.
As for you point about dying young being a saving. That is only true if the smoker dies within a very specific window, i.e. post retirement and earlier than they would have died otherwise, and presuming that pre-death treatment for smoking was cheaper than for the cause of death they would have had (an admittedly unknowable number). The reports actually put early death as a cost to society, as smokers were far more likely to die whilst still of a working age, thus adding to the smoking related productivity losses.
As I've stated on another thread on this site (sorry, honestly can't remember when or where it was), I'd be happy for smoking to be banned even if it was economically more expensive just to end the current situation where every footpath, beach, gutter, park and other public space has a liberal coating of dog ends.
People comparing drinking to smoking, give over. Smoking is way more addictive, much worse for you, and you need to be an anti social wanker and go and stand out in the rain to do it most of the time. Alcohol is a saint compared to those hideous cancer sticks
Minimum age for drinking to be increased by one year, every year.
No one sensible can think it's a bad idea.
Just a thought.
As a sometime smoker but a tea total drinker, I couldn't agree more.
Never quite understood why alcohol is considered perfectly fine, appreciate there's the passive element to smoking although that has mostly been eradicated since 2007, but drink causes far more health (and social) problems and always has.
If alcohol was discovered today, it would 100% be illegal.
Once something is legal, you cannot make it illegal.
Which is why I think legalising recreational cannabis and other malicious drugs is a very poor idea.
I've never smoked in my life but I have what the doctor call a smokers lung. 30 years in the Fire brigade probably explains that. What I find hard to understand is why people like my sister in law who absolutely hated smoking suddenly started smoking in her 40s. Knowing what it does to your health she must be bonkers.
I've never smoked in my life but I have what the doctor call a smokers lung. 30 years in the Fire brigade probably explains that. What I find hard to understand is why people like my sister in law who absolutely hated smoking suddenly started smoking in her 40s. Knowing what it does to your health she must be bonkers.
Strange thing in the fire service is coming out of a building on fire and taking off your breathing apparatus set, to see your colleagues light a cigarette as soon as they take off the face mask.
I've never smoked in my life but I have what the doctor call a smokers lung. 30 years in the Fire brigade probably explains that. What I find hard to understand is why people like my sister in law who absolutely hated smoking suddenly started smoking in her 40s. Knowing what it does to your health she must be bonkers.
Strange thing in the fire service is coming out of a building on fire and taking off your breathing apparatus set, to see your colleagues light a cigarette as soon as they take off the face mask.
I know mate it's bonkers. How many more years you got left to serve mate.
Minimum age for drinking to be increased by one year, every year.
No one sensible can think it's a bad idea.
Just a thought.
As a sometime smoker but a tea total drinker, I couldn't agree more.
Never quite understood why alcohol is considered perfectly fine, appreciate there's the passive element to smoking although that has mostly been eradicated since 2007, but drink causes far more health (and social) problems and always has.
If alcohol was discovered today, it would 100% be illegal.
Once something is legal, you cannot make it illegal.
Which is why I think legalising recreational cannabis and other malicious drugs is a very poor idea.
Eh? Loads of things which were legal are now illegal. Like smoking in pubs.
Minimum age for drinking to be increased by one year, every year.
No one sensible can think it's a bad idea.
Just a thought.
As a sometime smoker but a tea total drinker, I couldn't agree more.
Never quite understood why alcohol is considered perfectly fine, appreciate there's the passive element to smoking although that has mostly been eradicated since 2007, but drink causes far more health (and social) problems and always has.
If alcohol was discovered today, it would 100% be illegal.
Once something is legal, you cannot make it illegal.
Which is why I think legalising recreational cannabis and other malicious drugs is a very poor idea.
I know people who use cannabis recreationally and others who take it for serious medical conditions. I wouldn't describe the drug's effects on either group as malicious
Minimum age for drinking to be increased by one year, every year.
No one sensible can think it's a bad idea.
Just a thought.
As a sometime smoker but a tea total drinker, I couldn't agree more.
Never quite understood why alcohol is considered perfectly fine, appreciate there's the passive element to smoking although that has mostly been eradicated since 2007, but drink causes far more health (and social) problems and always has.
If alcohol was discovered today, it would 100% be illegal.
Once something is legal, you cannot make it illegal.
Which is why I think legalising recreational cannabis and other malicious drugs is a very poor idea.
Eh? Loads of things which were legal are now illegal. Like smoking in pubs.
Minimum age for drinking to be increased by one year, every year.
No one sensible can think it's a bad idea.
Just a thought.
As a sometime smoker but a tea total drinker, I couldn't agree more.
Never quite understood why alcohol is considered perfectly fine, appreciate there's the passive element to smoking although that has mostly been eradicated since 2007, but drink causes far more health (and social) problems and always has.
If alcohol was discovered today, it would 100% be illegal.
Once something is legal, you cannot make it illegal.
Which is why I think legalising recreational cannabis and other malicious drugs is a very poor idea.
Eh? Loads of things which were legal are now illegal. Like smoking in pubs.
I've never smoked in my life but I have what the doctor call a smokers lung. 30 years in the Fire brigade probably explains that. What I find hard to understand is why people like my sister in law who absolutely hated smoking suddenly started smoking in her 40s. Knowing what it does to your health she must be bonkers.
Strange thing in the fire service is coming out of a building on fire and taking off your breathing apparatus set, to see your colleagues light a cigarette as soon as they take off the face mask.
I know mate it's bonkers. How many more years you got left to serve mate.
I am only a hedgehog, 29 years in and still loving it for the most part and so will carry on as long as I can.
Minimum age for drinking to be increased by one year, every year.
No one sensible can think it's a bad idea.
Just a thought.
As a sometime smoker but a tea total drinker, I couldn't agree more.
Never quite understood why alcohol is considered perfectly fine, appreciate there's the passive element to smoking although that has mostly been eradicated since 2007, but drink causes far more health (and social) problems and always has.
If alcohol was discovered today, it would 100% be illegal.
Once something is legal, you cannot make it illegal.
Which is why I think legalising recreational cannabis and other malicious drugs is a very poor idea.
I've never smoked in my life but I have what the doctor call a smokers lung. 30 years in the Fire brigade probably explains that. What I find hard to understand is why people like my sister in law who absolutely hated smoking suddenly started smoking in her 40s. Knowing what it does to your health she must be bonkers.
Strange thing in the fire service is coming out of a building on fire and taking off your breathing apparatus set, to see your colleagues light a cigarette as soon as they take off the face mask.
I know mate it's bonkers. How many more years you got left to serve mate.
I am only a hedgehog, 29 years in and still loving it for the most part and so will carry on as long as I can.
Glad to hear you are still loving it. As for being a hedgehog ( that will mean nothing to most on here ). A fire can't tell the difference.
Comments
However, regarding the New Zealand smoking laws, read an in depth report in the Mail on Line, makes interesting read, but rather long!!
However, I always think the productivity lost figures are pulled out of thin air. Somebody taking regular smoke breaks can't necessarily be included in lost productivity figures. If someone wants to waste time or needs time away from their desk they'll invent a reason, whether that's a smoke break, a coffee break, longer trips to the loo, etc.
I was lucky that I literally gave up smoking overnight with the help of the 24hr patches for 3-4 weeks around 17-18 years ago now, so I thankfully missed the vaping stage but my brother is a vaper.
The economic argument is completely separate from the public health one. If it was the same it would have been banned, completely 30 years ago.
Amongst the last things she said to me, was that she regretted ever starting.
She also said if any of her grandchildren even think of picking up a fag she will send a lightning bolt down from the sky! That was the last joke she made.
They will not ban smoking and drinking because of the huge duty tax it brings in.
As for you point about dying young being a saving. That is only true if the smoker dies within a very specific window, i.e. post retirement and earlier than they would have died otherwise, and presuming that pre-death treatment for smoking was cheaper than for the cause of death they would have had (an admittedly unknowable number). The reports actually put early death as a cost to society, as smokers were far more likely to die whilst still of a working age, thus adding to the smoking related productivity losses.
As I've stated on another thread on this site (sorry, honestly can't remember when or where it was), I'd be happy for smoking to be banned even if it was economically more expensive just to end the current situation where every footpath, beach, gutter, park and other public space has a liberal coating of dog ends.
- Marlboro Gold - £12.25
- Silk Cut Purple - £13.35
- Benson and Hedges Silver - £11.40
- 30g Cutters Choice - £15.86
- 30g Amber Leaf - £15.74
Wow, not smoked for 22 years so have not really taken any notice of the price of fags.Not sure how people afford it these days, seven days of 20 a day Silk Cuts would set you back £93.45.
Which is why I think legalising recreational cannabis and other malicious drugs is a very poor idea.
30 years in the Fire brigade probably explains that.
What I find hard to understand is why people like my sister in law who absolutely hated smoking suddenly started smoking in her 40s.
Knowing what it does to your health she must be bonkers.
How many more years you got left to serve mate.
As for being a hedgehog ( that will mean nothing to most on here ).
A fire can't tell the difference.
Stay safe mate.