Nothing to look forward to at the moment until we see what the dozen players we need look like
Unless we see a massive turn around in the loan policy 5 or 6 is all we are going to get. After that it's got to be one in one out.
We need a minimum of 5 or 6 starters IMO. We might be pleasantly surprised with the transformation in one or two but to expect it from 7 or 8 is unrealistic, I think.
I don’t agree you can only play this with quality players like Man City and Liverpool do.
The players you are doing this against are lower quality so a good premier league defender is same as a good league 1 defender in reality.
Let’s give it a go and give manager time to put his imprint on the team
I’m looking forward to seeing it but we won’t have massively gifted and technical players and we’ll have to accept that not all the passes will go where intended and not all passes will maintain possession. It will be tough for Garner to get in the right players and I think it’s going to take time. We’ll need energy, athleticism and decent technical ability. Achieving that in league one in just one window sounds a tall order to me.
We definitely need some new forwards. A front 3 of Kirk (doesn’t work hard enough off the ball), Stockley (immobile) and CBT (hamstrings) doesn’t really fit a high intensity pressing side
Conceding from set pieces as we bring in ball playing defenders who aren’t convincing in the air.
This is why it's a balance. Both Stockley and Aneke are power players and could slaughter some of the modern CB in League 1 with a decent service.NOT Rubbish hoof balls but some quality short and long passes into space behind the attacking full backs for CBT and the new winger/Forward/striker ! that will hopefully play like Grant just before he left Cafc who was all 3 of the above. In the 5 straight loses we had no big man up front and the boy Burstow forgot how to score after his move to Chelsea. He will progress for Chelsea's U23 but he looked a long way off it at Cafc even though he may improve with more quality around him.
Deji must be an option in a passing from the back team. I feel we will lose Deji quite soon like Mason as I know his coaches from his early days before cafc felt he had the brains to go with natural talent to play higher than League 1 if his fitness and desire stays strong.
England U23 lost their first qualify match since 2011 when they lost to Solvenia last night. We had already qualified BUT England had 77% of Possession and even at 2-1 down in the last 5 minutes they were trying to make the perfect pass despite Solvenia having 11 players back. Two headed goals by Slovenia won the game for them.
Possession is important for game management; remember Tony Watt's magic feet by the line when the opposition couldn't get the ball off him as Cafc had a 2-1 goal lead at the business end of a match.
Possession means you mentally don't feel as tired but just like the Morecambe home game when we had 67% of the possession it doesn't always turn into 3 points if defenders make collective or individual mistakes. We made 3 poor mistakes that day defensively despite scoring two good goals including the impressive CBT getting to the byline and crossing for super sub Aneke to head home when the ball is coming from an advance position. Don't blame Aneke and Stockley for bad hoof balls forward. Diagonal long passes can be a great way to score. Just count the number of goals against Cafc at the valley over the last couple of seasons with Charlton being hit on the break.
100% I agree that our passing and first touch improves and the mandatory ability to pass a ball to colleges who have moved into space. Make angles, I have done enough coaching with young kids and we always said give the boy in possession options with who to pass to, plus Row z if under pressure in your own area and no easy ball on. We don't give cheap goals away.
I can't emphasize enough if our play is too slow in Possession then CBT will be marked by two players where if we can on occasions in transition get the ball to Corey Blackett-Taylor quickly he may only have one player to beat. I really don't want CBT wasting his energy defending. If the opposition have a corner I want Jayden and/or Chuks defending and Corey on the Half way line for a potential quick counter.
Ben Garner's gig and I'm interested how he sets the team up at home as I feel we will improve our away results but can't quite see how possession football per se improves your home form if one paced and the ball goes back to your keeper too many times.
England U23 lost their first qualify match since 2011 when they lost to Solvenia last night. We had already qualified BUT England had 77% of Possession and even at 2-1 down in the last 5 minutes they were trying to make the perfect pass despite Solvenia having 11 players back. Two headed goals by Slovenia won the game for them.
Possession is important for game management; remember Tony Watt's magic feet by the line when the opposition couldn't get the ball off him as Cafc had a 2-1 goal lead at the business end of a match.
Possession means you mentally don't feel as tired but just like the Morecambe home game when we had 67% of the possession it doesn't always turn into 3 points if defenders make collective or individual mistakes. We made 3 poor mistakes that day defensively despite scoring two good goals including the impressive CBT getting to the byline and crossing for super sub Aneke to head home when the ball is coming from an advance position. Don't blame Aneke and Stockley for bad hoof balls forward. Diagonal long passes can be a great way to score. Just count the number of goals against Cafc at the valley over the last couple of seasons with Charlton being hit on the break.
100% I agree that our passing and first touch improves and the mandatory ability to pass a ball to colleges who have moved into space. Make angles, I have done enough coaching with young kids and we always said give the boy in possession options with who to pass to, plus Row z if under pressure in your own area and no easy ball on. We don't give cheap goals away.
I can't emphasize enough if our play is too slow in Possession then CBT will be marked by two players where if we can on occasions in transition get the ball to Corey Blackett-Taylor quickly he may only have one player to beat. I really don't want CBT wasting his energy defending. If the opposition have a corner I want Jayden and/or Chuks defending and Corey on the Half way line for a potential quick counter.
Ben Garner's gig and I'm interested how he sets the team up at home as I feel we will improve our away results but can't quite see how possession football per se improves your home form if one paced and the ball goes back to your keeper too many times.
That defeat is always going to happen. It’s football. What it tells you though is that the style of having lots of possession on the whole works very well. That’s why going into that match they had already qualified and were undefeated. Do we expect to see a team that un defeatable ? Of course not. It’s going to happen and a reasonable amount too but I’d much prefer to be managing and watching that England U23 than Slovenia.
England U23 lost their first qualify match since 2011 when they lost to Solvenia last night. We had already qualified BUT England had 77% of Possession and even at 2-1 down in the last 5 minutes they were trying to make the perfect pass despite Solvenia having 11 players back. Two headed goals by Slovenia won the game for them.
That defeat is always going to happen. It’s football. What it tells you though is that the style of having lots of possession on the whole works very well. That’s why going into that match they had already qualified and were undefeated. Do we expect to see a team that un defeatable ? Of course not. It’s going to happen and a reasonable amount too but I’d much prefer to be managing and watching that England U23 than Slovenia.
I'll take losing once in 11 years!
Of course that won't happen and it's qualifying where England are a big fish in a small pond but as SHG say were are never going to remain undefeated whichever system we play.
If anything what you say Sam actually supports the the idea of playing that type of football.
Getting court short at the back, as the opposition lump it forward. Seriously though I hope we can play higher up the pitch, our backs always worry me when they start playing around at the back passing about to slowly.
To be honest I have no idea what a 'high-block' is, or how it helps to win a football match but a strategy to play pretty one touch total football in League 1 is naive in the extreme.
The teams that play the best football at this level tend to be those that are solid at the back and win lots of games so their confidence grows based on results.
The Chris Powell league-winning side was famous for grinding out ugly 1-0 wins on wet Tuesday nights up north but it still played some decent stuff when the circumstances allowed.
This will end in tears faster than Nigel Adkins and the positive thinking revolution.
To be honest I have no idea what a 'high-block' is, or how it helps to win a football match but a strategy to play pretty one touch total football in League 1 is naive in the extreme.
The teams that play the best football at this level tend to be those that are solid at the back and win lots of games so their confidence grows based on results.
The Chris Powell league-winning side was famous for grinding out ugly 1-0 wins on wet Tuesday nights up north but it still played some decent stuff when the circumstances allowed.
This will end in tears faster than Nigel Adkins and the positive thinking revolution.
Who said anything about one touch or total football? It’s attacking possession football as Swindon played last season and clubs like MK Dons have played for the last few years. It’s not beyond our level but you do need the right signings.
To be honest I have no idea what a 'high-block' is, or how it helps to win a football match but a strategy to play pretty one touch total football in League 1 is naive in the extreme.
The teams that play the best football at this level tend to be those that are solid at the back and win lots of games so their confidence grows based on results.
The Chris Powell league-winning side was famous for grinding out ugly 1-0 wins on wet Tuesday nights up north but it still played some decent stuff when the circumstances allowed.
This will end in tears faster than Nigel Adkins and the positive thinking revolution.
Who said anything about one touch or total football? It’s attacking possession football as Swindon played last season and clubs like MK Dons have played for the last few years. It’s not beyond our level but you do need the right signings.
Yes, Garner has talked about 'attacking football' (as has Sandgaard) and my opening post was about achieving this with Sandgaard's favoured high block/high press.
To turn it the other way, you can't really claim an attacking philosophy if you park the bus and try to grind out a gritty 1-0 win (much as I love that approach personally).
There are different ways of attacking, of course, but I'm expecting to see a team that tries to keep the ball and which closes the opposition defence down by hunting in packs (sometimes small packs of two or three players) to regain possession quickly.
As we are in League 1, we will get caught on the break on occasions, we will appear to have too many players out of position and we'll have a few scapegoats when players are slow to react.
But ... we should create chances by virtue of dispossessing ponderous defenders, intercepting poor passes into midfield, and then slipping our nippy forwards into the box.
Provided that we sign players to match these expectations, we could be in for some fun. Exasperation too ... but fun overall.
England U23 lost their first qualify match since 2011 when they lost to Solvenia last night. We had already qualified BUT England had 77% of Possession and even at 2-1 down in the last 5 minutes they were trying to make the perfect pass despite Solvenia having 11 players back. Two headed goals by Slovenia won the game for them.
Possession is important for game management; remember Tony Watt's magic feet by the line when the opposition couldn't get the ball off him as Cafc had a 2-1 goal lead at the business end of a match.
Possession means you mentally don't feel as tired but just like the Morecambe home game when we had 67% of the possession it doesn't always turn into 3 points if defenders make collective or individual mistakes. We made 3 poor mistakes that day defensively despite scoring two good goals including the impressive CBT getting to the byline and crossing for super sub Aneke to head home when the ball is coming from an advance position. Don't blame Aneke and Stockley for bad hoof balls forward. Diagonal long passes can be a great way to score. Just count the number of goals against Cafc at the valley over the last couple of seasons with Charlton being hit on the break.
100% I agree that our passing and first touch improves and the mandatory ability to pass a ball to colleges who have moved into space. Make angles, I have done enough coaching with young kids and we always said give the boy in possession options with who to pass to, plus Row z if under pressure in your own area and no easy ball on. We don't give cheap goals away.
I can't emphasize enough if our play is too slow in Possession then CBT will be marked by two players where if we can on occasions in transition get the ball to Corey Blackett-Taylor quickly he may only have one player to beat. I really don't want CBT wasting his energy defending. If the opposition have a corner I want Jayden and/or Chuks defending and Corey on the Half way line for a potential quick counter.
Ben Garner's gig and I'm interested how he sets the team up at home as I feel we will improve our away results but can't quite see how possession football per se improves your home form if one paced and the ball goes back to your keeper too many times.
That defeat is always going to happen. It’s football. What it tells you though is that the style of having lots of possession on the whole works very well. That’s why going into that match they had already qualified and were undefeated. Do we expect to see a team that un defeatable ? Of course not. It’s going to happen and a reasonable amount too but I’d much prefer to be managing and watching that England U23 than Slovenia.
England u23 are hardly ever 2 goals behind and great to see the ball passed around by the vastly superior side. When and only when you are behind and you are in added time I just didn't feel taking so many passes was a great idea. commentators saying they had plenty of time left to equalise was strange with just 3 minutes showing ! Of course England should be talented enough and fit enough to play the angles and Jordan Archer looks a good striker. Mentioning an England side and Charlton wasn't a great idea.
This window needs to be the best since Powell and Phil Chappel worked together in bringing in a squad which forged relationships all over the field; will Ben Garner get the players for the style he wants ? He will really need the support of the crowd as I agree it could take 2 or 3 windows and some Charlton fans/critics will only give the team until September 1st.
When I said the crowd could hinder our progress( airman Brown thought I was slagging off the working class LOL) I meant in the sense of impatience with a new style of play being implemented: Press, Possession and performance. Every young coach keeps saying the same mantra, who does it best and for longer may tell you the winner.
We are in League 1 and the hard work should be done at Sparrows lane Morning on the field and the afternoon inside with the managers coaches and analysts until all of the squad know their job. As we are bereft of a squad, the talks and enquiries will be going on and have done for a while.
Listening to Gallen the other day was interesting re the centre halves. Yes, if we're gonna pass it out from the back they need to be comfortable on the ball, but first things first they need to concentrate on keeping the ball out of our net. Harking back to SCPs team, morrison, Taylor and Cort were all comfortable but they were primarily "stoppers" good in the air, strong and able to win the ball and get rid of it sensibly, usually to the fullbacks who were exceptional that season. we don’t need the centre half's to be pinging the ball 50yrds, or marauding forward, we need them to be calm and pick the right option in front of them. So, the full backs and midfielders can pick it up and make stuff happen. Lavelle grew on me last season, he can knock it around a bit, but he's too weak in the air. Maybe he'll improve, but we need a whole new defence and keeper if we're going to start playing it out from the back effectively tbh.
I just feel that adopting a new, holistic approach to football is at massive odds with our owners' short term ambition to be out of L1 next season and be pushing up the leagues at a rate of knots.
I'm all for this kind of approach to football and giving a young manager the opportunity, but it is all hot air if it doesn't produce results at Fleetwood away on a heavily-clichéd, cold, Tuesday night. I fear that that, to do this properly, will take longer than TS is (and arguably, us as fans are) willing to give and spend on to do properly. Results until Xmas will dictate the tolerance, so I feel like theorycrafting about it is relatively moot at this point.
I genuinely hope that BG hits the ground running with some magic football and gets us all excited, but I think it'll be more defined by the players we get in than the style of our football, imho.
After watching the @Callumcafc video from the 'next manager' thread it dawned on me that a modicum of intelligence is required to play this way.
Yes we know defenders cover each other and forwards knock the ball on and all those other little tricks, but the high press demands the team act as one throughout the whole game. Each player has a role to play wherever the ball is on the pitch and they have to stick with it. Any weak links in the system will be exposed due to the commitment required by other team members.
Of course fitness and condition is vital, but I wonder how much time is spent in the classroom? I think they should hand out test papers to the players with a series of match situations and check the players responses. A bit like an 11+ test for footballers. Talking of which I failed mine and was condemned to a life in the lower leagues - .metaphorically speaking.
Comments
We need a minimum of 5 or 6 starters IMO. We might be pleasantly surprised with the transformation in one or two but to expect it from 7 or 8 is unrealistic, I think.
This is why it's a balance.
Both Stockley and Aneke are power players and could slaughter some of the modern CB in League 1 with a decent service.NOT Rubbish hoof balls but some quality short and long passes into space behind the attacking full backs for CBT and the new winger/Forward/striker ! that will hopefully play like Grant just before he left Cafc who was all 3 of the above. In the 5 straight loses we had no big man up front and the boy Burstow forgot how to score after his move to Chelsea. He will progress for Chelsea's U23 but he looked a long way off it at Cafc even though he may improve with more quality around him.
Deji must be an option in a passing from the back team. I feel we will lose Deji quite soon like Mason as I know his coaches from his early days before cafc felt he had the brains to go with natural talent to play higher than League 1 if his fitness and desire stays strong.
England U23 lost their first qualify match since 2011 when they lost to Solvenia last night. We had already qualified BUT England had 77% of Possession and even at 2-1 down in the last 5 minutes they were trying to make the perfect pass despite Solvenia having 11 players back. Two headed goals by Slovenia won the game for them.
Possession is important for game management; remember Tony Watt's magic feet by the line when the opposition couldn't get the ball off him as Cafc had a 2-1 goal lead at the business end of a match.
Possession means you mentally don't feel as tired but just like the Morecambe home game when we had 67% of the possession it doesn't always turn into 3 points if defenders make collective or individual mistakes. We made 3 poor mistakes that day defensively despite scoring two good goals including the impressive CBT getting to the byline and crossing for super sub Aneke to head home when the ball is coming from an advance position. Don't blame Aneke and Stockley for bad hoof balls forward. Diagonal long passes can be a great way to score. Just count the number of goals against Cafc at the valley over the last couple of seasons with Charlton being hit on the break.
100% I agree that our passing and first touch improves and the mandatory ability to pass a ball to colleges who have moved into space. Make angles, I have done enough coaching with young kids and we always said give the boy in possession options with who to pass to, plus Row z if under pressure in your own area and no easy ball on. We don't give cheap goals away.
I can't emphasize enough if our play is too slow in Possession then CBT will be marked by two players where if we can on occasions in transition get the ball to Corey Blackett-Taylor quickly he may only have one player to beat. I really don't want CBT wasting his energy defending. If the opposition have a corner I want Jayden and/or Chuks defending and Corey on the Half way line for a potential quick counter.
Ben Garner's gig and I'm interested how he sets the team up at home as I feel we will improve our away results but can't quite see how possession football per se improves your home form if one paced and the ball goes back to your keeper too many times.
Of course that won't happen and it's qualifying where England are a big fish in a small pond but as SHG say were are never going to remain undefeated whichever system we play.
If anything what you say Sam actually supports the the idea of playing that type of football.
The teams that play the best football at this level tend to be those that are solid at the back and win lots of games so their confidence grows based on results.
The Chris Powell league-winning side was famous for grinding out ugly 1-0 wins on wet Tuesday nights up north but it still played some decent stuff when the circumstances allowed.
This will end in tears faster than Nigel Adkins and the positive thinking revolution.
Yes, Garner has talked about 'attacking football' (as has Sandgaard) and my opening post was about achieving this with Sandgaard's favoured high block/high press.
To turn it the other way, you can't really claim an attacking philosophy if you park the bus and try to grind out a gritty 1-0 win (much as I love that approach personally).
There are different ways of attacking, of course, but I'm expecting to see a team that tries to keep the ball and which closes the opposition defence down by hunting in packs (sometimes small packs of two or three players) to regain possession quickly.
As we are in League 1, we will get caught on the break on occasions, we will appear to have too many players out of position and we'll have a few scapegoats when players are slow to react.
But ... we should create chances by virtue of dispossessing ponderous defenders, intercepting poor passes into midfield, and then slipping our nippy forwards into the box.
Provided that we sign players to match these expectations, we could be in for some fun. Exasperation too ... but fun overall.
4-2 is the new clean sheet win.
England u23 are hardly ever 2 goals behind and great to see the ball passed around by the vastly superior side. When and only when you are behind and you are in added time I just didn't feel taking so many passes was a great idea. commentators saying they had plenty of time left to equalise was strange with just 3 minutes showing ! Of course England should be talented enough and fit enough to play the angles and Jordan Archer looks a good striker. Mentioning an England side and Charlton wasn't a great idea.
This window needs to be the best since Powell and Phil Chappel worked together in bringing in a squad which forged relationships all over the field; will Ben Garner get the players for the style he wants ? He will really need the support of the crowd as I agree it could take 2 or 3 windows and some Charlton fans/critics will only give the team until September 1st.
When I said the crowd could hinder our progress( airman Brown thought I was slagging off the working class LOL) I meant in the sense of impatience with a new style of play being implemented:
Press, Possession and performance.
Every young coach keeps saying the same mantra, who does it best and for longer may tell you the winner.
We are in League 1 and the hard work should be done at Sparrows lane Morning on the field and the afternoon inside with the managers coaches and analysts until all of the squad know their job. As we are bereft of a squad, the talks and enquiries will be going on and have done for a while.
I'm all for this kind of approach to football and giving a young manager the opportunity, but it is all hot air if it doesn't produce results at Fleetwood away on a heavily-clichéd, cold, Tuesday night. I fear that that, to do this properly, will take longer than TS is (and arguably, us as fans are) willing to give and spend on to do properly. Results until Xmas will dictate the tolerance, so I feel like theorycrafting about it is relatively moot at this point.
I genuinely hope that BG hits the ground running with some magic football and gets us all excited, but I think it'll be more defined by the players we get in than the style of our football, imho.
Yes we know defenders cover each other and forwards knock the ball on and all those other little tricks, but the high press demands the team act as one throughout the whole game. Each player has a role to play wherever the ball is on the pitch and they have to stick with it. Any weak links in the system will be exposed due to the commitment required by other team members.
Of course fitness and condition is vital, but I wonder how much time is spent in the classroom? I think they should hand out test papers to the players with a series of match situations and check the players responses. A bit like an 11+ test for footballers. Talking of which I failed mine and was condemned to a life in the lower leagues - .metaphorically speaking.