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Sandgaard ownership discussion 2022-3 onwards (Meeting with CAST p138)

mattinfinland
mattinfinland Posts: 1,096
edited October 2022 in General Charlton
There has been plenty of talk about Sandgaard looking to sell, being skint and all of these other rumours,  but actually I think Sandgaard did clarify a few things in hes recent interview with Nick on BBC London Sport. Below I have written my conclusion on this and what I believe Sandgaards goal is here in the next few years.

TS - Thomas Sandgaard 
BG - Ben Garner
RD - Roland


To state the obvious the whole business model has changed entirely. This is clear to see with Jackson getting the boot. TS has a style he wishes the team to identify with hence the appointment of BG and hes staff. Out of the interviewed candidates TS felt BG was the best match for he's vision.

Money over the summer had been poured into the training ground development by Sandgaard it seems. Is it possible that an agreement was made between TS and RD regards to this hence why it could be possible rent wasn't paid as potentially ruomered. RD would probably profit from this development as he owns the real estate.

In Thomas's recent interview he appeared to state that he wants to make the club more sustainable,  more attractive with a clearer identity. The academy teams already have been playing a similar style to TS vision. Developing our own players is a way to make things more feasible financially which is why everything is being interlinked under this new style of play and would explain why Thomas is aiming for Cat1.

Thomas is looking to reduce the costs where possible to fit in with this new business model. Which is why we've seen big changes in staff and why most signings have been free transfers and loans. I do believe youth prospect's will get chances around the first team this season. And I personally do not expect to see any big money transfers. I would be surprised if we spend more then 300k in transfers fee's this season unless players are moved on first. I think our new transfer policy is to bring in hungry player's from the lower leagues who are cheap or available on a free who could suit our style of play. It's then BG job to coach them and get the best out of them.

Do I think this new business plan will work? Long term possibly and we will have to wait a few seasons to prehaps find out. I understand in today's market why TS is setting up things this way. I believe we will be more competitive then last season but I think promotion could be a couple of seasons away. I feel like Thomas will stick with this in the hope it brings success. 

I do not think after all these changes its a sign Thomas wants to sell. At least not in the next 3-4 years. And I don't think Thomas is "skint" I think this is he's plan to make the club more sustainable then it has been the past ten years.








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Comments

  • Dave2l
    Dave2l Posts: 8,865
    RodneyCharltonTrotta said:
    We'll be "sustainable" in league one is my gut feeling.  

    Think we're down here for a good while now based on the transfer activity to date and that's the reality.   We're not going to be throwing money at the problem like Derby and Ipswich and are gambling that Garner can do what he failed to do in previous roles and get a side promoted.

    Whether you can be sustainable with operating costs of £8m a year, year on year, without income from player sales/ sell on clauses is another question.

    But he's definitely downgrading expectations.

    Only at Charlton can you go from talk of Europe, Premier League football and "blowing the league out of the water" to setting an expectation for being sustainable in the 3rd tier in 2 seasons. 


    It is what it is but think we're probably down in this league for a good while unless Garner really is a revelation and the high press ethos makes us League One's Liverpool.

    The fact we have a weaker forward line than we ended the season with after Washington's departure and are now banking on an untested Leaburn and uninspiring Josh Davison as key squad players along with injury susceptible key men like Inniss and Aneke along with relatively unknown quantities in our signings so far means it might be a slog.

    We will see in 2.5 weeks the strength of the squad and capability of the manager within 10 or so games will be a fair indicator I expect.

    Looking forward to the new season and will get behind the manager and lads as always but expecting very little which is grim when we're in a league with Accrington and Cheltenham and Palace and Millwall continue to soar.


    There are always counter arguements etc and you have made some clear points.

    I think it's time for fans to simply mostly enjoy supporting the club again...instead of always only moaning.

    "If you can't beat em, join em"
  • Nicholas
    Nicholas Posts: 7,626
    Basically Roland’s vision then 
  • AndyG
    AndyG Posts: 5,905
    Rob7Lee said:
    I probably sound like a broken record but TS is a cuddlier friendlier version of RD.

    Like RD he thinks he can buck the trend, in a different way, but buck it all the same. 

    We're a long way from having a team that is going to challenge for the league/automatic promotion. Like those before my gut feel is he hopes we can over achieve and be in or around the play off's due too his astute knowledge of football and league 1........

    But just like RD he's finding it's a hell of a lot more difficult than he envisaged and hopefully he'll wake up and smell the coffee that he doesn't know better than seasoned pro's.

    You just have to hope, much like RD stumbled on Bowyer and it all fell into place that season, we do the same again. But currently the squad looks woefully short of that play off winning squad in almost every position.

    Phillips is as good or better a keeper than what we have.
    Bauer, Pearce, Naby I'd say were of a higher calibre
    Aribo, Bielik and Cullen 100 times better, Pratley also (hugely underrated in my view that season on and off the field)
    Taylor better, 

    I could go on, but that play off squad is far superior than what we currently have in almost every position.

    I really want to be proved wrong and come Christmas we are around the top 6.........

    But I have my ST and will be there at home and as many aways as I can get to...........It's the dreams that kill you............ 


    Mate I dont see how you can say that. Nobody knows what a new season will bring in reality. As you say it's the dreams that kill you but we have new faces through the door, the culprits from last season have gone, hopefully a few more will follow down the road soon if we can find another club stupid enough to take them 🙄 I'm sure there will be another 5-6 additions before the window shuts. We have a manager with a plan rather than the previous one who tbh was clueless. 
    You may not be but I'm excited about this season and hopeful it might just be a good one 😉
  • mattinfinland
    mattinfinland Posts: 1,096
    RodneyCharltonTrotta said:
    We'll be "sustainable" in league one is my gut feeling.  

    Think we're down here for a good while now based on the transfer activity to date and that's the reality.   We're not going to be throwing money at the problem like Derby and Ipswich and are gambling that Garner can do what he failed to do in previous roles and get a side promoted.

    Whether you can be sustainable with operating costs of £8m a year, year on year, without income from player sales/ sell on clauses is another question.

    But he's definitely downgrading expectations.

    Only at Charlton can you go from talk of Europe, Premier League football and "blowing the league out of the water" to setting an expectation for being sustainable in the 3rd tier in 2 seasons. 


    It is what it is but think we're probably down in this league for a good while unless Garner really is a revelation and the high press ethos makes us League One's Liverpool.

    The fact we have a weaker forward line than we ended the season with after Washington's departure and are now banking on an untested Leaburn and uninspiring Josh Davison as key squad players along with injury susceptible key men like Inniss and Aneke along with relatively unknown quantities in our signings so far means it might be a slog.

    We will see in 2.5 weeks the strength of the squad and capability of the manager within 10 or so games will be a fair indicator I expect.

    Looking forward to the new season and will get behind the manager and lads as always but expecting very little which is grim when we're in a league with Accrington and Cheltenham and Palace and Millwall continue to soar.

    Fair assessment 
  • Jints
    Jints Posts: 3,490
    As I recall Roland's "model" was based on a network of clubs. I can't see how TS's is similar. Developing talent through the academy to try to achieve sustainability is not particularly revolutionary - lots of clubs  trying that, some suceeding, most not.
  • Bailey
    Bailey Posts: 3,265
    It's a welcome bit of realism from TS. I think his comment about premier league in five years certainly bit him in the arse and he now realises what running an English football club with a premiership stadium in the third tier is all about. On the plus side, pouring money into the youth set up is a good thing and cheaper than paying over the odds for players who are either not good enough or are looking for a last chance at earning some money from soon to be over football career, Charlton's next promising team will undoubtedly come from the youngsters who are soon to be knocking on the first team door. The problem TS faces is balancing the books against success without cashing in on the players coming through. As for TS selling the club, someone on here needs to tell me what he actually owns at Charlton apart from some third rate players.
  • mattinfinland
    mattinfinland Posts: 1,096
    edited July 2022
    Rob7Lee said:
    I probably sound like a broken record but TS is a cuddlier friendlier version of RD.

    Like RD he thinks he can buck the trend, in a different way, but buck it all the same. 

    We're a long way from having a team that is going to challenge for the league/automatic promotion. Like those before my gut feel is he hopes we can over achieve and be in or around the play off's due too his astute knowledge of football and league 1........

    But just like RD he's finding it's a hell of a lot more difficult than he envisaged and hopefully he'll wake up and smell the coffee that he doesn't know better than seasoned pro's.

    You just have to hope, much like RD stumbled on Bowyer and it all fell into place that season, we do the same again. But currently the squad looks woefully short of that play off winning squad in almost every position.

    Phillips is as good or better a keeper than what we have.
    Bauer, Pearce, Naby I'd say were of a higher calibre
    Aribo, Bielik and Cullen 100 times better, Pratley also (hugely underrated in my view that season on and off the field)
    Taylor better, 

    I could go on, but that play off squad is far superior than what we currently have in almost every position.

    I really want to be proved wrong and come Christmas we are around the top 6.........

    But I have my ST and will be there at home and as many aways as I can get to...........It's the dreams that kill you............ 


    I do agree with you about this new business model appearing to be similar to RD method toward the end of he's regime, I don't actually think he did to much wrong at the very end which was a shame when you consider how disastrous most of hes time at the club was. If he stuck he's neckout a little bit during that championship season who knows..

    What I will say is that I generally believe TS does care about this club, and has become a fan himself. 

    Rodney was spot on, he's not throwing money at this to a point which we hope we get success sooner but end up in much more debt as a result.

    He's taking a risk with this new business plan but it does appear to be the most sustainable way possible at least in TS opinion to get us promoted and who knows what this season will bring. We could still very well bring in 3 to 4 very promising loan signings. 

    I think we will get a better idea how competitive this squad is currently after tonight's friendly. It's a step closer to the new season and time to step up to another level again. 
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  • Callumcafc
    Callumcafc Posts: 63,763
    edited July 2022
    The squad isn’t completed yet but I have every confidence we will bring in more quality. I firmly believe a transfer fee will be spent on at least one new arrival. A lot can change in three weeks of a summer transfer window.

    We will be top six this season. And we’ll do it without spending loads of money.
  • Dazzler21
    Dazzler21 Posts: 51,344
    Rob7Lee said:
    I probably sound like a broken record but TS is a cuddlier friendlier version of RD.
    Then he's nothing like Roland. 
  • Bailey
    Bailey Posts: 3,265
    I think any further signings will be loans. 
  • lolwray
    lolwray Posts: 4,899
    I just wish he'd shut up and let the football management do the talking 
  • eaststandmike
    eaststandmike Posts: 14,956
    lolwray said:
    I just wish he'd shut up and let the football management do the talking 
    His wife was not available.
  • JohnnyH2
    JohnnyH2 Posts: 5,342
    Not for the first time it has to be said, Charlton with our overheads cannot be sustainable in Division 3 without a benefactor. It does not matter whoever is in charge they cannot cut the costs enough/increase revenue to still make us break even and get team out on the pitch year on year
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    Callumcafc said:
    The squad isn’t completed yet but I have every confidence we will bring in more quality. I firmly believe a transfer fee will be spent on at least one new arrival. A lot can change in three weeks of a summer transfer window.

    We will be top six this season. And we’ll do it without spending loads of money.
    Maybe not a lot on this window but how many clubs, at this level, have got a squad where over half of them cost a fee?

    Thats without factoring in the wage bill that will be bigger than all bar a handful.  By league 1 levels he has spent an absolute fortune.  

    Now the wage bill maybe less than last season, we may spend less on fees this window than last.  That doesn't mean it's not a lot.
  • Rob7Lee
    Rob7Lee Posts: 9,594
    AndyG said:
    Rob7Lee said:
    I probably sound like a broken record but TS is a cuddlier friendlier version of RD.

    Like RD he thinks he can buck the trend, in a different way, but buck it all the same. 

    We're a long way from having a team that is going to challenge for the league/automatic promotion. Like those before my gut feel is he hopes we can over achieve and be in or around the play off's due too his astute knowledge of football and league 1........

    But just like RD he's finding it's a hell of a lot more difficult than he envisaged and hopefully he'll wake up and smell the coffee that he doesn't know better than seasoned pro's.

    You just have to hope, much like RD stumbled on Bowyer and it all fell into place that season, we do the same again. But currently the squad looks woefully short of that play off winning squad in almost every position.

    Phillips is as good or better a keeper than what we have.
    Bauer, Pearce, Naby I'd say were of a higher calibre
    Aribo, Bielik and Cullen 100 times better, Pratley also (hugely underrated in my view that season on and off the field)
    Taylor better, 

    I could go on, but that play off squad is far superior than what we currently have in almost every position.

    I really want to be proved wrong and come Christmas we are around the top 6.........

    But I have my ST and will be there at home and as many aways as I can get to...........It's the dreams that kill you............ 


    Mate I dont see how you can say that. Nobody knows what a new season will bring in reality. As you say it's the dreams that kill you but we have new faces through the door, the culprits from last season have gone, hopefully a few more will follow down the road soon if we can find another club stupid enough to take them 🙄 I'm sure there will be another 5-6 additions before the window shuts. We have a manager with a plan rather than the previous one who tbh was clueless. 
    You may not be but I'm excited about this season and hopeful it might just be a good one 😉
    I'm always excited to varying degrees for football to restart, but I look at the squad (appreciate it could improve before the window shuts) and on any basis it's not got 'challenging for the title' in it IMHO, it looks mid table at the very best to me and not really an improvement over what we had.

    We have a manager with a plan do we? What is that exactly? And as for his predecessor, he never had an opportunity to prove if he was any good or not, he took over what we all consider a pretty poor squad that was in danger of flirting with relegation.
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    Rob7Lee said:
    AndyG said:
    Rob7Lee said:
    I probably sound like a broken record but TS is a cuddlier friendlier version of RD.

    Like RD he thinks he can buck the trend, in a different way, but buck it all the same. 

    We're a long way from having a team that is going to challenge for the league/automatic promotion. Like those before my gut feel is he hopes we can over achieve and be in or around the play off's due too his astute knowledge of football and league 1........

    But just like RD he's finding it's a hell of a lot more difficult than he envisaged and hopefully he'll wake up and smell the coffee that he doesn't know better than seasoned pro's.

    You just have to hope, much like RD stumbled on Bowyer and it all fell into place that season, we do the same again. But currently the squad looks woefully short of that play off winning squad in almost every position.

    Phillips is as good or better a keeper than what we have.
    Bauer, Pearce, Naby I'd say were of a higher calibre
    Aribo, Bielik and Cullen 100 times better, Pratley also (hugely underrated in my view that season on and off the field)
    Taylor better, 

    I could go on, but that play off squad is far superior than what we currently have in almost every position.

    I really want to be proved wrong and come Christmas we are around the top 6.........

    But I have my ST and will be there at home and as many aways as I can get to...........It's the dreams that kill you............ 


    Mate I dont see how you can say that. Nobody knows what a new season will bring in reality. As you say it's the dreams that kill you but we have new faces through the door, the culprits from last season have gone, hopefully a few more will follow down the road soon if we can find another club stupid enough to take them 🙄 I'm sure there will be another 5-6 additions before the window shuts. We have a manager with a plan rather than the previous one who tbh was clueless. 
    You may not be but I'm excited about this season and hopeful it might just be a good one 😉
    I'm always excited to varying degrees for football to restart, but I look at the squad (appreciate it could improve before the window shuts) and on any basis it's not got 'challenging for the title' in it IMHO, it looks mid table at the very best to me and not really an improvement over what we had.

    We have a manager with a plan do we? What is that exactly? And as for his predecessor, he never had an opportunity to prove if he was any good or not, he took over what we all consider a pretty poor squad that was in danger of flirting with relegation.
    To be fair I think he was referring to Adkins but even that's unfair.  It was Adkins choice to start the season with no left back, no left winger, an inadequate midfield and a half fit center half.  Regardless of the things wrong he did himself. 
  • Kap10
    Kap10 Posts: 15,563
    RodneyCharltonTrotta said:
    Nicholas said:
    Basically Roland’s vision then 

    With songs.
    But no flying pigs
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  • Callumcafc
    Callumcafc Posts: 63,763
    edited July 2022
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Callumcafc said:
    The squad isn’t completed yet but I have every confidence we will bring in more quality. I firmly believe a transfer fee will be spent on at least one new arrival. A lot can change in three weeks of a summer transfer window.

    We will be top six this season. And we’ll do it without spending loads of money.
    Maybe not a lot on this window but how many clubs, at this level, have got a squad where over half of them cost a fee?

    Thats without factoring in the wage bill that will be bigger than all bar a handful.  By league 1 levels he has spent an absolute fortune.  

    Now the wage bill maybe less than last season, we may spend less on fees this window than last.  That doesn't mean it's not a lot.
    I should have clarified that I meant we won't spend a lot of money this window.

    I agree that we have already paid fees for a number of our better players such as Fraser, Aneke, Stockley and Kirk.

    But in my opinion, these concerns about Thomas cutting the spend and 'changing the business model' have only reared their head because we haven't spent money on transfer fees so far this summer. I'll make the point that others already have: if McGrandles had cost 400k from Lincoln, who would be talking about Thomas having a change of heart and tightening the purse strings?

    The point of my post is that I believe that there still is money to spend on the right player(s) but having done so for half a dozen or more players over the last two years, it's hardly surprising that we aren't keeping that same pace. And it's nothing to particularly worry about.
  • mattinfinland
    mattinfinland Posts: 1,096
    edited July 2022
    JohnnyH2 said:
    Not for the first time it has to be said, Charlton with our overheads cannot be sustainable in Division 3 without a benefactor. It does not matter whoever is in charge they cannot cut the costs enough/increase revenue to still make us break even and get team out on the pitch year on year
    Agreed, but it's also a bigger risk to spend 4 or 5m in transfers and still not get promotion. This is about cutting losses to an absolute minimum.

    Neither option ultimately guarantees promotion. 
  • Dazzler21
    Dazzler21 Posts: 51,344
    Burn him.
  • CL_Phantom
    CL_Phantom Posts: 5,513
    edited July 2022
    Jints said:
    As I recall Roland's "model" was based on a network of clubs. I can't see how TS's is similar. Developing talent through the academy to try to achieve sustainability is not particularly revolutionary - lots of clubs  trying that, some suceeding, most not.

    The comparison in vision and aim has been done before, some accept it some dont. Both have/d the vision of breaking even and sustainability;

    RD by -
    Playing the transfer market using his network of clubs 
    Investing in a strong 11 and squad filling with cheap frees, loans and youth prospects
    Develop the premier league stars of the future and sell for a tidy profit 
    Increase the match day expierence, catering, sofas, DJ´s etc.
    Target 20k

    TS by - 
    Playing the transfer market by seeking the best deals / friendly neighbourhood agents 
    Investing in mainly, players that can develop for us/ resale
    Squad filling with cheap (but quality) loans and youth prospects
    Develop the youth and sell for a tidy profit 
    Increase the match day expirence with regualr guitar solos (may not be 100% accurate i just dont remember what they said recently )
    Fill the valley


    Nothing wrong with it, there wasnt anything wrong with Rolands plan other than the fact that he never had the desire to push us on in January´s when the playing side needed it for promotion/ relegation - he then completley gave up out of boredom and spite. 
  • T_C_E
    T_C_E Posts: 16,418
    I get the need to trim back staff (non playing side) for financial reasons so can someone explain why the need for a COO and a DOO.
    🤷‍♂️
  • Rothko
    Rothko Posts: 18,801
    Awful lot of people projecting their feeling on to an interview which was pretty neutral.
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    mattinfinland said:
    JohnnyH2 said:
    Not for the first time it has to be said, Charlton with our overheads cannot be sustainable in Division 3 without a benefactor. It does not matter whoever is in charge they cannot cut the costs enough/increase revenue to still make us break even and get team out on the pitch year on year
    Agreed, but it's also a bigger risk to spend 4 or 5m in transfers and still not get promotion. This is about cutting losses to an absolute minimum.

    Neither option ultimately guarantees promotion. 
    Is it?  If you spent 4 or 5 million extra (over 3 or 4 windows on half a dozen players) your recruitment would have to be shocking to either not get promoted or have 1 or 2 players that you could sell to get that money back.

    The worst way is being halfed arsed in the middle somewhere.
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,842
    Most teams promoted out of a division do so because they have a number of players which are too good for that level.

    The Bowyer team had them, hence the number of players who left us and are still in the Championship. Indeed the likes of Bauer and Sarr were Championship signings by us on Championship money no doubt. The Powell team had them in spades , hence we had a very decent finish the next season in the Championship with very few additions.

    At the moment I don't see that with our side, or our additions so far this summer.

    Investing in the academy is great, but any benefits are long term. The promising U18s coming through now would have initially been spotted years ago when Roland still owned us (or even the Spivs). In the meantime we'll be losing significant money every season we're in L1.
  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick Posts: 29,031
    killerandflash said:
    Most teams promoted out of a division do so because they have a number of players which are too good for that level.

    The Bowyer team had them, hence the number of players who left us and are still in the Championship. Indeed the likes of Bauer and Sarr were Championship signings by us on Championship money no doubt. The Powell team had them in spades , hence we had a very decent finish the next season in the Championship with very few additions.

    At the moment I don't see that with our side, or our additions so far this summer.

    Investing in the academy is great, but any benefits are long term. The promising U18s coming through now would have initially been spotted years ago when Roland still owned us (or even the Spivs). In the meantime we'll be losing significant money every season we're in L1.
    Spot on.

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