The differences between Scally vs Roland/Katrien are so obvious it's tiresome to have to point them out. Read the Gills boards, they're not celebrating Scally's removal. Have a look.
Didnt we fly a banner ourselves saying "Roland Out" when we played Gillingham one game?
Scully though has clearly started that the abuse he's received has resulted in worthy criminal offences - So sounds like its gone well beyond the opinions of Social Media and Internet Forums... The worst that could be said in similar vein with Roland / Meire, was when fans turned up at her parents house.
Even then, I seem to recall most Charlton fans agreeing that a line had been crossed when that happened.
I am in too minds about this. Of course there should be lines which you cannot go beyond and those lines are sometimes crossed by a minority. But if somebody runs the club badly, it isn't like any other business and the hopes and lives of fans are connected to the club. If an owner comes in and says I am going to run this how I want and sod you, of course you need to react to that as a supporter if you care. Otherwise stop supporting and loving your club and let them get on with it.
If I understand correctly, Scally takes a wage from the club and I think that justifies critisism even more. That critisism should not be of a threatening variety and being wrongly accused of things shoud not be acceptable but I have always seen Scally as a bit of a wally and surely fans who are not happy with the situation the club is in are entitled to want him out.
I am too minds about this. Of course there should be lines which you cannot go beyond and those lines are sometimes crossed by a minority. But if somebody runs the club badly, it isn't like any other business and the hopes and lives of fans are connected to the club. If an owner comes in and says I am going to run this how I want and sod you, of course you need to react to that as a supporter if you care. Otherwise stop supporting and loving your club and let them get on with it.
If I understand correctly, Scally takes a wage from the club and I think that justifies critisism even more. That critisism should not be of a threatening variety and being wrongly accused of things shoud not be acceptable but I have always seen Scally as a bit of a wally and surely fans who are not happy with the situation the club is in are entitled to want him out.
Are you saying that because you consider Scally to be bit of a wally you're sceptical that his account is a true reflection of the level of abuse he's had to contend with, or that it's a valid reason for fans to hound him out if it means he's not very good at his job.
And why does him taking a wage, if he does, justify criticism. He works for the Club and has done for many years, so why shouldn't he? What am I misunderstanding here?
Reading his account, which I believe is what he has experienced and must feel very real to him, I think this goes way beyond a few banners wanting rid of him. As @Chunes stated above, the Gills notice boards are not celebrating his removal anyway, so I suspect the abuse to have crossed the bounds of justified criticism.
His account will be from his perspective. I am not saying people won't have acted in an unreasonable way which I don't condone, but all fans that want him out should not be included in that. Flying a plane with a banner stating Scally out is perfectly acceptable as far as I am concerned. False accusations and threats on his life are not.
His account will be from his perspective. I am not saying people won't have acted in an unreasonable way which I don't condone, but all fans that want him out should not be included in that. Flying a plane with a banner stating Scally out is perfectly acceptable as far as I am concerned. False accusations and threats on his life are not.
Fair enough. I'm having a mind mush sort of a day @MuttleyCAFC. You said you were in two minds and I failed to get inside either. Still don't get the bit about the wage, but not to worry. Think I'll go and eat worms! 😎
If you do a shit job for nothing or put shedloads of your own money in it is harder to criticise than if you say pay yourself £300k a year. But there is a line where the critisism shouldn't go.
Something need to be done ( I have no idea how ) to stop people being able to open fake profile accounts. Maybe an ID should be required and then it might make people think before mouthing off.
Musk was bang on the money re his takeover when he tried to get to the bottom of the number of real profiles I suspect there are significant numbers of fakes
In China, you have to register for all social media with your ID.
The Western mind sees this as an infringement of liberty....
But...at what price that liberty?
Helps them silence or disappear you if you post anything that contravenes the mandated view on matters I suppose.
Should absolutely not take direction on China on such matters and I'm glad the "western mind" is such a staunch proponent of liberty and freedom of thought and expression.
(Albeit there should be some accountability to assist in preventing loathsome trolling).
How do you deliver accountability if accounts are not only anonymous but also untraceable?
Social media is now completely out of hand, all accounts should be verified with ID so that people can be held to account for their actions.
The Chinese have their reasons for doing it, that’s a matter for them, but just look at the damage social media is doing to peoples mental health, the outrageous bullying and so on, it’s time to make people as accountable for their online actions as they are for their real life actions.
Something need to be done ( I have no idea how ) to stop people being able to open fake profile accounts. Maybe an ID should be required and then it might make people think before mouthing off.
Musk was bang on the money re his takeover when he tried to get to the bottom of the number of real profiles I suspect there are significant numbers of fakes
In China, you have to register for all social media with your ID.
The Western mind sees this as an infringement of liberty....
But...at what price that liberty?
Helps them silence or disappear you if you post anything that contravenes the mandated view on matters I suppose.
Should absolutely not take direction on China on such matters and I'm glad the "western mind" is such a staunch proponent of liberty and freedom of thought and expression.
(Albeit there should be some accountability to assist in preventing loathsome trolling).
How do you deliver accountability if accounts are not only anonymous but also untraceable?
Social media is now completely out of hand, all accounts should be verified with ID so that people can be held to account for their actions.
The Chinese have their reasons for doing it, that’s a matter for them, but just look at the damage social media is doing to peoples mental health, the outrageous bullying and so on, it’s time to make people as accountable for their online actions as they are for their real life actions.
Yes I agree that something needs to be done but my point was that I would not sacrifice western mindset f liberty and free speech in a baby and bathwater scenario.
And the fact that the social media landscape in China was held up as an example concerns me as taking direction on social media regulation from the Chinese authorities is akin to consulting with the taliban on gender equality matters.
Very much doubt there's a house of commoners thread on Beijing FC Life and I feel great sympathy for the population there and the authoritarian control they're subject to.
Tricky issue but needs to be resolved with balance.
Some people may want to retain privacy and post on Charlton Life under pseudonyms/ user names etc even if they have no intention on trolling/ being divs.
We know that Tony Keohane and Katrien Meire took two members of this forum to court on trumped up allegations that were laughed out of court by the judge, so manufactured weere they.
That didn't stop the whole process being expensive and stressful for the two people or the other forum members threatened with court action.
So I have no sympathy for Roland, KM or TK. If there were any real threats then they could have reported those to the police rather than making some up. To my knowledge they never did.
That's not to say that internet abuse and trolling (of which I have been a victim myself) are right or excusable but the liar banner is not an example of that.
Writing factually correct remarks on a bedsheet is not personal abuse, particularly if hilarious. Roland/Scully Out is a slogan and part of free speech, not personal abuse. Nor are those involved in the action hiding behind a cloak of secrecy.
They bear no comparison to anonymous vile attacks and threats under the protection of Twitter.
Something need to be done ( I have no idea how ) to stop people being able to open fake profile accounts. Maybe an ID should be required and then it might make people think before mouthing off.
Musk was bang on the money re his takeover when he tried to get to the bottom of the number of real profiles I suspect there are significant numbers of fakes
In China, you have to register for all social media with your ID.
The Western mind sees this as an infringement of liberty....
But...at what price that liberty?
Helps them silence or disappear you if you post anything that contravenes the mandated view on matters I suppose.
Should absolutely not take direction on China on such matters and I'm glad the "western mind" is such a staunch proponent of liberty and freedom of thought and expression.
(Albeit there should be some accountability to assist in preventing loathsome trolling).
How do you deliver accountability if accounts are not only anonymous but also untraceable?
Social media is now completely out of hand, all accounts should be verified with ID so that people can be held to account for their actions.
The Chinese have their reasons for doing it, that’s a matter for them, but just look at the damage social media is doing to peoples mental health, the outrageous bullying and so on, it’s time to make people as accountable for their online actions as they are for their real life actions.
Yes I agree that something needs to be done but my point was that I would not sacrifice western mindset f liberty and free speech in a baby and bathwater scenario.
And the fact that the social media landscape in China was held up as an example concerns me as taking direction on social media regulation from the Chinese authorities is akin to consulting with the taliban on gender equality matters.
Very much doubt there's a house of commoners thread on Beijing FC Life and I feel great sympathy for the population there and the authoritarian control they're subject to.
Tricky issue but needs to be resolved with balance.
Some people may want to retain privacy and post on Charlton Life under pseudonyms/ user names etc even if they have no intention on trolling/ being divs.
Honestly I think you seriously overestimate how controlled the vast majority are, I partake in daily political conversations, as long as people don’t know I’m a foreigner criticisms are welcomed and discussed (although I’m more pro the A LOT of locals when it comes to several policies)
There are definitely things that are off limits, but most of the time debate can and does take place.
Even so, that level of control would be totally unacceptable in a western democracy, but you can ensure people use ID to make criminal charges easier, without being draconian towards political criticism
Didnt we fly a banner ourselves saying "Roland Out" when we played Gillingham one game?
Scully though has clearly started that the abuse he's received has resulted in worthy criminal offences - So sounds like its gone well beyond the opinions of Social Media and Internet Forums... The worst that could be said in similar vein with Roland / Meire, was when fans turned up at her parents house.
Even then, I seem to recall most Charlton fans agreeing that a line had been crossed when that happened.
someone did, I know not who .. must be 4/5 years back, it was the last time I was at the delightful Priestfield
Didnt we fly a banner ourselves saying "Roland Out" when we played Gillingham one game?
Scully though has clearly started that the abuse he's received has resulted in worthy criminal offences - So sounds like its gone well beyond the opinions of Social Media and Internet Forums... The worst that could be said in similar vein with Roland / Meire, was when fans turned up at her parents house.
Even then, I seem to recall most Charlton fans agreeing that a line had been crossed when that happened.
someone did, I know not who .. must be 4/5 years back, it was the last time I was at the delightful Priestfield
I am starting to wonder if Twitter and Facebook and the like actually are net negatives for the world in general. I don't like regulation of free speech and shutting down these companies would be quite a regulation. But more and more these platforms feel like their very existence is "yelling fire in a crowded theater." The science is quite strong that the more social media is used, the worse the mental health outcome.
Something need to be done ( I have no idea how ) to stop people being able to open fake profile accounts. Maybe an ID should be required and then it might make people think before mouthing off.
Musk was bang on the money re his takeover when he tried to get to the bottom of the number of real profiles I suspect there are significant numbers of fakes
In China, you have to register for all social media with your ID.
The Western mind sees this as an infringement of liberty....
But...at what price that liberty?
Helps them silence or disappear you if you post anything that contravenes the mandated view on matters I suppose.
Should absolutely not take direction on China on such matters and I'm glad the "western mind" is such a staunch proponent of liberty and freedom of thought and expression.
(Albeit there should be some accountability to assist in preventing loathsome trolling).
How do you deliver accountability if accounts are not only anonymous but also untraceable?
Social media is now completely out of hand, all accounts should be verified with ID so that people can be held to account for their actions.
The Chinese have their reasons for doing it, that’s a matter for them, but just look at the damage social media is doing to peoples mental health, the outrageous bullying and so on, it’s time to make people as accountable for their online actions as they are for their real life actions.
Yes I agree that something needs to be done but my point was that I would not sacrifice western mindset f liberty and free speech in a baby and bathwater scenario.
And the fact that the social media landscape in China was held up as an example concerns me as taking direction on social media regulation from the Chinese authorities is akin to consulting with the taliban on gender equality matters.
Very much doubt there's a house of commoners thread on Beijing FC Life and I feel great sympathy for the population there and the authoritarian control they're subject to.
Tricky issue but needs to be resolved with balance.
Some people may want to retain privacy and post on Charlton Life under pseudonyms/ user names etc even if they have no intention on trolling/ being divs.
Honestly I think you seriously overestimate how controlled the vast majority are, I partake in daily political conversations, as long as people don’t know I’m a foreigner criticisms are welcomed and discussed (although I’m more pro the A LOT of locals when it comes to several policies)
There are definitely things that are off limits, but most of the time debate can and does take place.
Even so, that level of control would be totally unacceptable in a western democracy, but you can ensure people use ID to make criminal charges easier, without being draconian towards political criticism
Fair enough and I'm probably guilty of being subject to the Western media agenda/ propaganda view of Chinese society.
I worked for a Hong Kong bank previously and a lot of my colleagues would comment on how the narrative in news here about China/ HK was often a different spin from what they knew with their insight.
Comments
Scully though has clearly started that the abuse he's received has resulted in worthy criminal offences - So sounds like its gone well beyond the opinions of Social Media and Internet Forums... The worst that could be said in similar vein with Roland / Meire, was when fans turned up at her parents house.
Even then, I seem to recall most Charlton fans agreeing that a line had been crossed when that happened.
If I understand correctly, Scally takes a wage from the club and I think that justifies critisism even more. That critisism should not be of a threatening variety and being wrongly accused of things shoud not be acceptable but I have always seen Scally as a bit of a wally and surely fans who are not happy with the situation the club is in are entitled to want him out.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/19441305/gillingham-paul-scally-interview/
And why does him taking a wage, if he does, justify criticism. He works for the Club and has done for many years, so why shouldn't he? What am I misunderstanding here?
Reading his account, which I believe is what he has experienced and must feel very real to him, I think this goes way beyond a few banners wanting rid of him. As @Chunes stated above, the Gills notice boards are not celebrating his removal anyway, so I suspect the abuse to have crossed the bounds of justified criticism.
Social media is now completely out of hand, all accounts should be verified with ID so that people can be held to account for their actions.
The Chinese have their reasons for doing it, that’s a matter for them, but just look at the damage social media is doing to peoples mental health, the outrageous bullying and so on, it’s time to make people as accountable for their online actions as they are for their real life actions.
And the fact that the social media landscape in China was held up as an example concerns me as taking direction on social media regulation from the Chinese authorities is akin to consulting with the taliban on gender equality matters.
Very much doubt there's a house of commoners thread on Beijing FC Life and I feel great sympathy for the population there and the authoritarian control they're subject to.
Tricky issue but needs to be resolved with balance.
Some people may want to retain privacy and post on Charlton Life under pseudonyms/ user names etc even if they have no intention on trolling/ being divs.
There are definitely things that are off limits, but most of the time debate can and does take place.
I worked for a Hong Kong bank previously and a lot of my colleagues would comment on how the narrative in news here about China/ HK was often a different spin from what they knew with their insight.