Supersonic passenger flights

Dave Rudd

I can't believe that anyone thinks that we travel in the future.

Has the pandemic taught us nothing?  Working from home, holidaying from home, visiting others from home ... this is the future.  The 'new normal'.

The only travel that might take place is by criminals trying to get away from the scene of the crime.

No, Zoom is the future. 

Or an extension of the Elizabeth Line to Mars when the Earth grinds to a halt.

Lincsaddick

has anyone mentioned the G W words ? .. presumably these aircraft will run on fossil fuels, a LOT of fossil fuel .. I suspect the technology has as many military as civilian implications and travel will be (as already said) for the very rich ..

Still, wonderful machines .. London to N Y in 3 & 1/2 hours ? .. that's quicker than for me getting from Grimsby to London by train

Boom - Supersonic Passenger Airplanes (boomsupersonic.com)

sam3110

on the very link you put up Lincs is says this, so unless they change their stance, fossil fuels won't be a problem

SporadicAddick

Lincsaddick said:

has anyone mentioned the G W words ? .. presumably these aircraft will run on fossil fuels, a LOT of fossil fuel .. I suspect the technology has as many military as civilian implications and travel will be (as already said) for the very rich ..

Still, wonderful machines .. London to N Y in 3 & 1/2 hours ? .. that's quicker than for me getting from Grimsby to London by train

Boom - Supersonic Passenger Airplanes (boomsupersonic.com)

There's a whole section in the link you provided about sustainable fuel development...

Lincsaddick

SporadicAddick said:

Lincsaddick said:

has anyone mentioned the G W words ? .. presumably these aircraft will run on fossil fuels, a LOT of fossil fuel .. I suspect the technology has as many military as civilian implications and travel will be (as already said) for the very rich ..

Still, wonderful machines .. London to N Y in 3 & 1/2 hours ? .. that's quicker than for me getting from Grimsby to London by train

Boom - Supersonic Passenger Airplanes (boomsupersonic.com)

There's a whole section in the link you provided about sustainable fuel development...

BUT is this a hope, an expectation rather than a fact ?

Prometheus Fuels - Wikipedia

SporadicAddick

Lincsaddick said:

SporadicAddick said:

Lincsaddick said:

has anyone mentioned the G W words ? .. presumably these aircraft will run on fossil fuels, a LOT of fossil fuel .. I suspect the technology has as many military as civilian implications and travel will be (as already said) for the very rich ..

Still, wonderful machines .. London to N Y in 3 & 1/2 hours ? .. that's quicker than for me getting from Grimsby to London by train

Boom - Supersonic Passenger Airplanes (boomsupersonic.com)

There's a whole section in the link you provided about sustainable fuel development...

BUT is this a hope, an expectation rather than a fact ?

It's already happening:-

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/sep/15/british-airways-operates-first-passenger-flight-run-on-sustainable-fuel

Investment in the development of sustainable fuels is significant across the aviation industry as it comes face to face with its impact on the environment. It's not just the right thing to do, ultimately it will be good for business as well.

Lincsaddick

SporadicAddick said:

Lincsaddick said:

SporadicAddick said:

Lincsaddick said:

has anyone mentioned the G W words ? .. presumably these aircraft will run on fossil fuels, a LOT of fossil fuel .. I suspect the technology has as many military as civilian implications and travel will be (as already said) for the very rich ..

Still, wonderful machines .. London to N Y in 3 & 1/2 hours ? .. that's quicker than for me getting from Grimsby to London by train

Boom - Supersonic Passenger Airplanes (boomsupersonic.com)

There's a whole section in the link you provided about sustainable fuel development...

BUT is this a hope, an expectation rather than a fact ?

It's already happening:-

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/sep/15/british-airways-operates-first-passenger-flight-run-on-sustainable-fuel

Investment in the development of sustainable fuels is significant across the aviation industry as it comes face to face with its impact on the environment. It's not just the right thing to do, ultimately it will be good for business as well.

Point taken, however this one flight still emitted 6.4 tons of co2 .. ONE flight .. in the long term air travel is not sustainable .. look at all the resources needed to manufacture one aircraft, let alone powering it

SporadicAddick

Lincsaddick said:

SporadicAddick said:

Lincsaddick said:

SporadicAddick said:

Lincsaddick said:

has anyone mentioned the G W words ? .. presumably these aircraft will run on fossil fuels, a LOT of fossil fuel .. I suspect the technology has as many military as civilian implications and travel will be (as already said) for the very rich ..

Still, wonderful machines .. London to N Y in 3 & 1/2 hours ? .. that's quicker than for me getting from Grimsby to London by train

Boom - Supersonic Passenger Airplanes (boomsupersonic.com)

There's a whole section in the link you provided about sustainable fuel development...

BUT is this a hope, an expectation rather than a fact ?

It's already happening:-

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/sep/15/british-airways-operates-first-passenger-flight-run-on-sustainable-fuel

Investment in the development of sustainable fuels is significant across the aviation industry as it comes face to face with its impact on the environment. It's not just the right thing to do, ultimately it will be good for business as well.

Point taken, however this one flight still emitted 6.4 tons of co2 .. ONE flight .. in the long term air travel is not sustainable .. look at all the resources needed to manufacture one aircraft, let alone powering it

Air travel has to become sustainable and net zero is the ambition. Even if the operation itself isn't carbon neutral, the offset needs to make it so. This is a decent overview from the global industry  body.

https://www.iata.org/en/programs/environment/flynetzero/

Air travel is critical to the global economy and it will continue to grow.

Chizz

Lincsaddick said:

SporadicAddick said:

Lincsaddick said:

SporadicAddick said:

Lincsaddick said:

has anyone mentioned the G W words ? .. presumably these aircraft will run on fossil fuels, a LOT of fossil fuel .. I suspect the technology has as many military as civilian implications and travel will be (as already said) for the very rich ..

Still, wonderful machines .. London to N Y in 3 & 1/2 hours ? .. that's quicker than for me getting from Grimsby to London by train

Boom - Supersonic Passenger Airplanes (boomsupersonic.com)

There's a whole section in the link you provided about sustainable fuel development...

BUT is this a hope, an expectation rather than a fact ?

It's already happening:-

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/sep/15/british-airways-operates-first-passenger-flight-run-on-sustainable-fuel

Investment in the development of sustainable fuels is significant across the aviation industry as it comes face to face with its impact on the environment. It's not just the right thing to do, ultimately it will be good for business as well.

Point taken, however this one flight still emitted 6.4 tons of co2 .. ONE flight .. in the long term air travel is not sustainable .. look at all the resources needed to manufacture one aircraft, let alone powering it

Also on the link you provided...

Although construction on the Overture final assembly line won’t begin for several years, we’re already planning how to design a LEED-certified production facility. Overture’s manufacturing center will also take advantage of on- and off-site clean electricity generation.

“Scrappiness” has always been part of Boom’s culture. We are fortunate that in our engineering and manufacturing processes, sustainability and economics often align. As a result, we look for the most resource-efficient path forward for every project we undertake. Throughout the design and build process on XB-1, we had many opportunities to repurpose used tooling for new applications. After creating the wing skins, we repurposed the carbon laminating tools into vacuum assembly fixtures.

Overture, our flagship supersonic passenger aircraft, will be an era-defining airplane, but every aircraft has a finite lifetime. Long before we put the first production model together, we’re already thinking about the best way to take it apart. We’re investigating how to incorporate the latest recycling (indeed, pre-cycling) practices — including for complex carbon composites — into Overture’s design to minimize the amount of waste generated at the end of the airplane’s useful life.

The prospect of widespread supersonic flight offers great promise to the world: business opportunities, chances for human connection, and ties between cultures. But as an aircraft manufacturer, we have a responsibility to make sure that these benefits don’t come at an unacceptable cost to society and our planet. We’re committed to ensuring the new era of travel is sustainably supersonic.

Lincsaddick

already planning, we hope, we hope, we expect, we hope .. we will see 

JohnBoyUK

I'll just link to this...

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/brahmal-vasudevan-institute/

Its such a big issue that Imperial College just received a £25m donation from Brahmal Vasudevan to set up a Research Institute in the Department of Aeronautics (where I work!).

We've got a large number of academics working on efficient engines, more efficient wings and fuselage made from stronger, lighter materials, larger more powerful batteries for electric powered flight, but batteries made from different more environmental, recyclable products, etc etc etc.  Such an interesting place to work

AddicksAddict

sam3110 said:

RickAddick said:

Glovepup said:

The challenge these companies are working on supersonic planes (there are others not just boom) is avoiding the creation of the sonic boom, Concord was used for London to New York for this reason and could not reach full speed until it was over sea to not break windows etc. 

If they can do that then hopefully it will eventually become more the usual way to travel rather than just those with the cash. 

Concord was originally planned to be used on long haul flights to the far east and Australia (and west coast US?), but the sonic boom impact over land issue relegated it to the London / Paris to New York route (and later pleasure flights) where supersonic flight was possible over the Atlantic.
It therefore became a white elephant from Day 1.
What is going to change with the sonic boom issue to avoid history repeating itself? Difficult to engineer out the laws of physics, surely?

Perhaps they can get it to fly higher, or maybe aerodynamic advances mean the "boom" can be made smaller or broken up. 

A fighter jet breaking the sound barrier doesn't usually do a huge amount of damage does it?

Only to the thing it’s firing at, hopefully. 

MuttleyCAFC

It looks very similar to the Concorde. 

cafcfan

MuttleyCAFC said:

It looks very similar to the Concorde. 

I expect that is kind of inevitable. In the same way F1 cars are all much of a muchness.

MuttleyCAFC

Yes, but it does show how clever the 60s engineers were as Concorde would not have been copied, a computer will have designed that.

WSS

MuttleyCAFC said:

Yes, but it does show how clever the 60s engineers were as Concorde would not have been copied, a computer will have designed that.

All by itself?

MuttleyCAFC

WSS said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

Yes, but it does show how clever the 60s engineers were as Concorde would not have been copied, a computer will have designed that.

All by itself?

I'm sure some clever people helped it.

Off_it

sam3110 said:

RickAddick said:

Glovepup said:

The challenge these companies are working on supersonic planes (there are others not just boom) is avoiding the creation of the sonic boom, Concord was used for London to New York for this reason and could not reach full speed until it was over sea to not break windows etc. 

If they can do that then hopefully it will eventually become more the usual way to travel rather than just those with the cash. 

Concord was originally planned to be used on long haul flights to the far east and Australia (and west coast US?), but the sonic boom impact over land issue relegated it to the London / Paris to New York route (and later pleasure flights) where supersonic flight was possible over the Atlantic.
It therefore became a white elephant from Day 1.
What is going to change with the sonic boom issue to avoid history repeating itself? Difficult to engineer out the laws of physics, surely?

Perhaps they can get it to fly higher, or maybe aerodynamic advances mean the "boom" can be made smaller or broken up. 

A fighter jet breaking the sound barrier doesn't usually do a huge amount of damage does it?

I think it can do, which is why they dont normally do it over land.

An ex of mine used to work for the MoD and they had a department that dealt specifically with claims for compensation for damage done by low flying planes, etc - windows breaking, people dropping things in shock at the sudden noise, fishermen having accidents, farmers claiming their hens had stopped laying because they were spooked by the planes, etc.

Lincsaddick

Off_it said:

sam3110 said:

RickAddick said:

Glovepup said:

The challenge these companies are working on supersonic planes (there are others not just boom) is avoiding the creation of the sonic boom, Concord was used for London to New York for this reason and could not reach full speed until it was over sea to not break windows etc. 

If they can do that then hopefully it will eventually become more the usual way to travel rather than just those with the cash. 

Concord was originally planned to be used on long haul flights to the far east and Australia (and west coast US?), but the sonic boom impact over land issue relegated it to the London / Paris to New York route (and later pleasure flights) where supersonic flight was possible over the Atlantic.
It therefore became a white elephant from Day 1.
What is going to change with the sonic boom issue to avoid history repeating itself? Difficult to engineer out the laws of physics, surely?

Perhaps they can get it to fly higher, or maybe aerodynamic advances mean the "boom" can be made smaller or broken up. 

A fighter jet breaking the sound barrier doesn't usually do a huge amount of damage does it?

I think it can do, which is why they dont normally do it over land.

An ex of mine used to work for the MoD and they had a department that dealt specifically with claims for compensation for damage done by low flying planes, etc - windows breaking, people dropping things in shock at the sudden noise, fishermen having accidents, farmers claiming their hens had stopped laying because they were spooked by the planes, etc.

When I was a kid, round about 8, 9, 10 my folks always took me to the Farnborough air show .. one time, an English Electric Lightning fighter  came flashing across the sky accompanied by a very loud 'thunderclap' .. the sonic boom cracked all the windows in the airfield buildings and blew out a large number of windows in the control tower

MuttleyCAFC

What a plane that was

MuttleyCAFC

When I went to Italy a few weeks back for part of the holiday we stayed in Predappio which had the old Caproni factory basically still there but rotting since the war. I was fascinated by it. I love planes.