Easy for those living in London and the South East to become fixated. I now live in Yorkshire and it’s a different proposition here. My daughter and her husband are 32 and 33 respectively and they’ve been homeowners for five years. I know five or six of their friends and all of them own their own homes. Jobs are plentiful and wages although not attracting London Weighting amounts are as good as anywhere else. This problem is for the most part a London and SE problem that’s been created through greed and bad government. Of course there are places in the U.K. where the prices are high but move ten miles and it’s much easier. Quite how London and SE solves this is beyond my understanding.
One of the young girls on the program I mentioned was living in Bristol. She had a flat. Well I call it a flat but her bedroom/living room and kitchen were all the same room. And it was no bigger than my bedroom. And she was being asked to pay £700 pm for the privilege! You can say it was just as hard in our day but I don't remember the system being so stacked towards greedy landlords being openly allowed to violate these people. It is a disgrace. Freeing up the social housing supply for the lucky few who were in the right place at the right time is turning out to be the recipe for disaster that many said it would be.
Rents have to a degree got out of control in ‘popular’ areas. That’s only going one way and it’s not down. As those landlords with borrowings have to renew their loans rents will go up further.
Don’t have the answer as whichever path it goes I fear the rental market will get harder. You could look at some form of regulated rents like we had until the 90’s but government/councils need funds as it will spark an exodus of selling in the BTL arena. Of course the old regulated rents there was a lot of additional burden on maintenance etc for the tenant which ultimately didn’t make the overall cost much cheaper.
In short - 30 years ago the average person could buy the average house with some hard work and a bit of sacrifice. Now you have to have 2 people well above average, some family help, a huge chunk of good luck and following winds. Even then you end up paying something like half a mill for a well below average house which the previous owner brought for 97k in 1998 and needs completely gutting and starting again as no work has been done to it since the 60's.
You can definitely buy a house for 500k that doesn't need gutting in Bexley. Not sure where your looking @cantersaddick ? Also, why will we not live as long as our parents?
You can definitely buy a house for 500k that doesn't need gutting in Bexley. Not sure where your looking @cantersaddick ? Also, why will we not live as long as our parents?
Maybe that was a slight exaggeration for effect and was meant as a bit of a joke but not too far off given my own experiences.
Life expectancy has been flattening for a few year and has actually fallen in the last 2 years. Drill down into that and the fall is much larger for millennials and Gen Z who's life expectancy is now lower than their parents. This is the first time since the data was collected that this has ever happened and estimated to be the first time in history really. Its largely driven by 2 things 1) the wealth effects i.e. on average we will be less wealthy than our parent and so will have a lower standard of living and 2) massive underfunding of public services particularly health and prevention health but all areas will have an impact on life expectancy overall.
Obviously massive variation within the average and geographical and wealth factors will make a difference for the individual. But on average we will live shorter than our parents.
You can definitely buy a house for 500k that doesn't need gutting in Bexley. Not sure where your looking @cantersaddick ? Also, why will we not live as long as our parents?
Maybe that was a slight exaggeration for effect and was meant as a bit of a joke but not too far off given my own experiences.
Life expectancy has been flattening for a few year and has actually fallen in the last 2 years. Drill down into that and the fall is much larger for millennials and Gen Z who's life expectancy is now lower than their parents. This is the first time since the data was collected that this has ever happened and estimated to be the first time in history really. Its largely driven by 2 things 1) the wealth effects i.e. on average we will be less wealthy than our parent and so will have a lower standard of living and 2) massive underfunding of public services particularly health and prevention health but all areas will have an impact on life expectancy overall.
Obviously massive variation within the average and geographical and wealth factors will make a difference for the individual. But on average we will live shorter than our parents.
Surely the counter argument to your wealth claim is that all the 30 and 40 year olds now will be inheriting all the homes their parents bought on the cheap and made huge profits
You can definitely buy a house for 500k that doesn't need gutting in Bexley. Not sure where your looking @cantersaddick ? Also, why will we not live as long as our parents?
Maybe that was a slight exaggeration for effect and was meant as a bit of a joke but not too far off given my own experiences.
Life expectancy has been flattening for a few year and has actually fallen in the last 2 years. Drill down into that and the fall is much larger for millennials and Gen Z who's life expectancy is now lower than their parents. This is the first time since the data was collected that this has ever happened and estimated to be the first time in history really. Its largely driven by 2 things 1) the wealth effects i.e. on average we will be less wealthy than our parent and so will have a lower standard of living and 2) massive underfunding of public services particularly health and prevention health but all areas will have an impact on life expectancy overall.
Obviously massive variation within the average and geographical and wealth factors will make a difference for the individual. But on average we will live shorter than our parents.
Surely the counter argument to your wealth claim is that all the 30 and 40 year olds now will be inheriting all the homes their parents bought on the cheap and made huge profits
A not true - simple maths those peoples parents are 50-75 so still have another 15-20 years given their life expectancy and the fact that they are living independently longer and so not freeing up housing stock. Still wouldnt solve the problem for those below 30.
B - even if it was true its more often than not shared between siblings and may be enough to put a deposit on a house but are you really saying that its fine for someone to have to wait until their parents die in order to put a deposit down on a house? Thats before we even get to what its doing to the wealth divide.
I reckon lots of companies are jumping on the bandwagon and profiteering (even more). It's' why we're called Rip off Britain. When (maybe if...) the war in Ukraine ends do you reckon the prices will tumble back down....? Not a chance. Shell's £7bn profit for the first three months of the year is typical of the greed. SEVEN BILLION. Not even turnover; but profit.
I reckon lots of companies are jumping on the bandwagon and profiteering (even more). It's' why we're called Rip off Britain. When (maybe if...) the war in Ukraine ends do you reckon the prices will tumble back down....? Not a chance. Shell's £7bn profit for the first three months of the year is typical of the greed. SEVEN BILLION. Not even turnover; but profit.
Agree re energy companies greed.
One point - expect that a year on from the start of war in Ukraine inflation should fall but not prices. That is what most other European economies are seeing. Our inflation remains stubbornly high. Probably because of the extra costs of importing due to Brexit.
I reckon lots of companies are jumping on the bandwagon and profiteering (even more). It's' why we're called Rip off Britain. When (maybe if...) the war in Ukraine ends do you reckon the prices will tumble back down....? Not a chance. Shell's £7bn profit for the first three months of the year is typical of the greed. SEVEN BILLION. Not even turnover; but profit.
I reckon lots of companies are jumping on the bandwagon and profiteering (even more). It's' why we're called Rip off Britain. When (maybe if...) the war in Ukraine ends do you reckon the prices will tumble back down....? Not a chance. Shell's £7bn profit for the first three months of the year is typical of the greed. SEVEN BILLION. Not even turnover; but profit.
Agree re energy companies greed.
One point - expect that a year on from the start of war in Ukraine inflation should fall but not prices. That is what most other European economies are seeing. Our inflation remains stubbornly high. Probably because of the extra costs of importing due to Brexit.
It’s outrageous and another reason to despise this government. The refusal to implement a windfall tax is inexcusable when people have been sitting at home unable to turn on the heating. It’s a scandal.
You can definitely buy a house for 500k that doesn't need gutting in Bexley. Not sure where your looking @cantersaddick ? Also, why will we not live as long as our parents?
Maybe that was a slight exaggeration for effect and was meant as a bit of a joke but not too far off given my own experiences.
Life expectancy has been flattening for a few year and has actually fallen in the last 2 years. Drill down into that and the fall is much larger for millennials and Gen Z who's life expectancy is now lower than their parents. This is the first time since the data was collected that this has ever happened and estimated to be the first time in history really. Its largely driven by 2 things 1) the wealth effects i.e. on average we will be less wealthy than our parent and so will have a lower standard of living and 2) massive underfunding of public services particularly health and prevention health but all areas will have an impact on life expectancy overall.
Obviously massive variation within the average and geographical and wealth factors will make a difference for the individual. But on average we will live shorter than our parents.
Surely the counter argument to your wealth claim is that all the 30 and 40 year olds now will be inheriting all the homes their parents bought on the cheap and made huge profits
And then sell them to pay for their parents care homes as they live longer in retirement.
You can definitely buy a house for 500k that doesn't need gutting in Bexley. Not sure where your looking @cantersaddick ? Also, why will we not live as long as our parents?
Maybe that was a slight exaggeration for effect and was meant as a bit of a joke but not too far off given my own experiences.
Life expectancy has been flattening for a few year and has actually fallen in the last 2 years. Drill down into that and the fall is much larger for millennials and Gen Z who's life expectancy is now lower than their parents. This is the first time since the data was collected that this has ever happened and estimated to be the first time in history really. Its largely driven by 2 things 1) the wealth effects i.e. on average we will be less wealthy than our parent and so will have a lower standard of living and 2) massive underfunding of public services particularly health and prevention health but all areas will have an impact on life expectancy overall.
Obviously massive variation within the average and geographical and wealth factors will make a difference for the individual. But on average we will live shorter than our parents.
Surely the counter argument to your wealth claim is that all the 30 and 40 year olds now will be inheriting all the homes their parents bought on the cheap and made huge profits
And then sell them to pay for their parents care homes as they live longer in retirement.
Because social care has been treated shockingly over the last 20 years and had its funding slashed.
In short - 30 years ago the average person could buy the average house with some hard work and a bit of sacrifice. Now you have to have 2 people well above average, some family help, a huge chunk of good luck and following winds. Even then you end up paying something like half a mill for a well below average house which the previous owner brought for 97k in 1998 and needs completely gutting and starting again as no work has been done to it since the 60's.
Factually not even comparable.
1998 I was able to buy my 1st place 2 bed flat for £45000 working at sainsburys on £12000 a year. That flat today you would need 3 of you working at sainsburys to be able to get the mortgage on it.
Have heard people being interviewed on tv today and they are having to sell their property and move back with parents, as they cannot afford the mortgage with the interest rates increases. Government and Bank of England are so out of touch with reality.
You can definitely buy a house for 500k that doesn't need gutting in Bexley. Not sure where your looking @cantersaddick ? Also, why will we not live as long as our parents?
Maybe that was a slight exaggeration for effect and was meant as a bit of a joke but not too far off given my own experiences.
Life expectancy has been flattening for a few year and has actually fallen in the last 2 years. Drill down into that and the fall is much larger for millennials and Gen Z who's life expectancy is now lower than their parents. This is the first time since the data was collected that this has ever happened and estimated to be the first time in history really. Its largely driven by 2 things 1) the wealth effects i.e. on average we will be less wealthy than our parent and so will have a lower standard of living and 2) massive underfunding of public services particularly health and prevention health but all areas will have an impact on life expectancy overall.
Obviously massive variation within the average and geographical and wealth factors will make a difference for the individual. But on average we will live shorter than our parents.
Surely the counter argument to your wealth claim is that all the 30 and 40 year olds now will be inheriting all the homes their parents bought on the cheap and made huge profits
Not often I agree with you Seth, and probably wouldn’t get on with you over a pint. But on this one, you are showing Mike for what he is. What sort of fucking comment is that Mike?
Food prices . How high will they go? Itv 8.30pm I hope not much further. The wife kept a tally a couple of months ago. £400 shopping bill for the 2 of us for the month, don't drink indoors and get me meat from a butchers which is cheaper than the supermarkets.
Not often I agree with you Seth, and probably wouldn’t get on with you over a pint. But on this one, you are showing Mike for what he is. What sort of fucking comment is that Mike
I was replying to Canters in response to his claim that today’s youngsters will be worse off than their parents.
It was a generalisation, not a statement that ALL would benefit. Not sure why Seth mentioned those in care or you mentioned those whose parents don’t own their own home, of course they would not count
My parents lived in council accommodation all their lives as did my sister, I was the first person in my family to buy a house so I fully understand.
And whilst writing this is a discussion board and that is what me and canters were doing so wind your neck in with the swearing
You can definitely buy a house for 500k that doesn't need gutting in Bexley. Not sure where your looking @cantersaddick ? Also, why will we not live as long as our parents?
Maybe that was a slight exaggeration for effect and was meant as a bit of a joke but not too far off given my own experiences.
Life expectancy has been flattening for a few year and has actually fallen in the last 2 years. Drill down into that and the fall is much larger for millennials and Gen Z who's life expectancy is now lower than their parents. This is the first time since the data was collected that this has ever happened and estimated to be the first time in history really. Its largely driven by 2 things 1) the wealth effects i.e. on average we will be less wealthy than our parent and so will have a lower standard of living and 2) massive underfunding of public services particularly health and prevention health but all areas will have an impact on life expectancy overall.
Obviously massive variation within the average and geographical and wealth factors will make a difference for the individual. But on average we will live shorter than our parents.
Surely the counter argument to your wealth claim is that all the 30 and 40 year olds now will be inheriting all the homes their parents bought on the cheap and made huge profits
Posted this on the housing thread in HOC a week or so ago but feel it would also be relevant here given some of the comments (admin please delete if not appropriate).
''Yeah sorry but there are some people on this thread who are so far removed from reality its ridiculous.
So for reference I've lived in Lewisham my whole life (bar a brief 6 month stretch in Chelmsford before dropping out of Uni), am 26, have done an apprenticeship after A-levels (fully qualified bicycle mechanic with some other bits) and currently earn roughly 25k before tax. I've never been particularly motivated by money, I just want enough to get by and to be able to have a place (or space) that can be my own, rented or bought (gd one I know).
I managed to move out 1-2 years ago to rent (house share because anything else is impossible), I loved it but how can I justify roughly 40% of my take home going on rent even before bills. I wasn't loosing money but it was basically treading water, then with bills going up (energy particularly) it seemed like a never ending road to nowhere.
So before Christmas I moved back in with my parents. I find it so depressing to say that I'm one of the lucky ones to be able to do that, what a sad state of affairs when that's a favourable outcome. My sister had also done the same a few months prior. We're obviously both paying rent however parent rates are still more favourable than the standard market so I'm back saving a fair amount.
Yet despite this I cannot see how I will ever be able to own somewhere that is mine in the place that I've grown up and love. I cannot state how mentally crushing it is to get up everyday to earn something to put towards what is in reality an impossible dream. Even with saving my arse off home ownership gets further and further away, it all seems so pointless. I'm not opposed to renting either but in the current market/climate it is just not sustainable.
I'm aware this may come across as self-pity but I want to stress that's not the case, I know I am very fortunate and lucky to be able to fall back on my parents. For those who have mentioned about their own home ownership struggles in the past I'm sure it was tough in the times you mentioned to and well done on getting on the ladder, I just wanted to give a current real life example of what its like out there at the moment.
I'll also add I saw someone comment about younger people preferring to or opting (cos there is really a choice lol) to rent rather than own earlier in the thread?!?!? Honestly I've not come across 1 person in my age bracket who'd rather contribute to a landlords pension than have a mortgage of their own.
I'm writing this at 3:30am after working overtime (gotta get that £££ for nothing) 9am-1am today and am back in again at 8:45am tomorrow, what a life, love it (but yh lazy 20 sommat get another job etc etc).
Honestly thinking about using what I have saved to fuck off out of London and to go travelling for as long as I can. There is no future here.
^I'm aware some people in this thread will have seen and replied to that already, just thought it needed sharing again. Particularly @Bournemouth Addick who lifted my spirits and @Rob7Lee who gave me plenty of food for thought with your reply, thank you
I would of replied on the HOC thread but I've been to busy drowning in avocado toast and iphones.
Posted this on the housing thread in HOC a week or so ago but feel it would also be relevant here given some of the comments (admin please delete if not appropriate).
''Yeah sorry but there are some people on this thread who are so far removed from reality its ridiculous.
So for reference I've lived in Lewisham my whole life (bar a brief 6 month stretch in Chelmsford before dropping out of Uni), am 26, have done an apprenticeship after A-levels (fully qualified bicycle mechanic with some other bits) and currently earn roughly 25k before tax. I've never been particularly motivated by money, I just want enough to get by and to be able to have a place (or space) that can be my own, rented or bought (gd one I know).
I managed to move out 1-2 years ago to rent (house share because anything else is impossible), I loved it but how can I justify roughly 40% of my take home going on rent even before bills. I wasn't loosing money but it was basically treading water, then with bills going up (energy particularly) it seemed like a never ending road to nowhere.
So before Christmas I moved back in with my parents. I find it so depressing to say that I'm one of the lucky ones to be able to do that, what a sad state of affairs when that's a favourable outcome. My sister had also done the same a few months prior. We're obviously both paying rent however parent rates are still more favourable than the standard market so I'm back saving a fair amount.
Yet despite this I cannot see how I will ever be able to own somewhere that is mine in the place that I've grown up and love. I cannot state how mentally crushing it is to get up everyday to earn something to put towards what is in reality an impossible dream. Even with saving my arse off home ownership gets further and further away, it all seems so pointless. I'm not opposed to renting either but in the current market/climate it is just not sustainable.
I'm aware this may come across as self-pity but I want to stress that's not the case, I know I am very fortunate and lucky to be able to fall back on my parents. For those who have mentioned about their own home ownership struggles in the past I'm sure it was tough in the times you mentioned to and well done on getting on the ladder, I just wanted to give a current real life example of what its like out there at the moment.
I'll also add I saw someone comment about younger people preferring to or opting (cos there is really a choice lol) to rent rather than own earlier in the thread?!?!? Honestly I've not come across 1 person in my age bracket who'd rather contribute to a landlords pension than have a mortgage of their own.
I'm writing this at 3:30am after working overtime (gotta get that £££ for nothing) 9am-1am today and am back in again at 8:45am tomorrow, what a life, love it (but yh lazy 20 sommat get another job etc etc).
Honestly thinking about using what I have saved to fuck off out of London and to go travelling for as long as I can. There is no future here.
Thanks for sharing @Addickted4life. I’m sorry to read how difficult it’s proving for you.
Please don’t answer this if you don’t want to, have you had a heart to heart with your parents on this? Do they need the rent you are now paying them? If not, Is there not a way that you continue to pay them that rent, they then take the minimum amount that covers the additional impact of you on their bills (if they need that) and they then put as much as they can aside into a separate preparation fund for you?
I didn’t get any help off anyone when I entered property ownership in the late 90s, but it’s a different world now. “you’ve got to go out and make your own way in the world” is just so much harder now and I think parents need to have a different attitude to assisting their kids where they can with regard to getting on the property ladder. I’m already thinking I need to be preparing for this over the next 10-15 years to give them a chance.
Posted this on the housing thread in HOC a week or so ago but feel it would also be relevant here given some of the comments (admin please delete if not appropriate).
''Yeah sorry but there are some people on this thread who are so far removed from reality its ridiculous.
So for reference I've lived in Lewisham my whole life (bar a brief 6 month stretch in Chelmsford before dropping out of Uni), am 26, have done an apprenticeship after A-levels (fully qualified bicycle mechanic with some other bits) and currently earn roughly 25k before tax. I've never been particularly motivated by money, I just want enough to get by and to be able to have a place (or space) that can be my own, rented or bought (gd one I know).
I managed to move out 1-2 years ago to rent (house share because anything else is impossible), I loved it but how can I justify roughly 40% of my take home going on rent even before bills. I wasn't loosing money but it was basically treading water, then with bills going up (energy particularly) it seemed like a never ending road to nowhere.
So before Christmas I moved back in with my parents. I find it so depressing to say that I'm one of the lucky ones to be able to do that, what a sad state of affairs when that's a favourable outcome. My sister had also done the same a few months prior. We're obviously both paying rent however parent rates are still more favourable than the standard market so I'm back saving a fair amount.
Yet despite this I cannot see how I will ever be able to own somewhere that is mine in the place that I've grown up and love. I cannot state how mentally crushing it is to get up everyday to earn something to put towards what is in reality an impossible dream. Even with saving my arse off home ownership gets further and further away, it all seems so pointless. I'm not opposed to renting either but in the current market/climate it is just not sustainable.
I'm aware this may come across as self-pity but I want to stress that's not the case, I know I am very fortunate and lucky to be able to fall back on my parents. For those who have mentioned about their own home ownership struggles in the past I'm sure it was tough in the times you mentioned to and well done on getting on the ladder, I just wanted to give a current real life example of what its like out there at the moment.
I'll also add I saw someone comment about younger people preferring to or opting (cos there is really a choice lol) to rent rather than own earlier in the thread?!?!? Honestly I've not come across 1 person in my age bracket who'd rather contribute to a landlords pension than have a mortgage of their own.
I'm writing this at 3:30am after working overtime (gotta get that £££ for nothing) 9am-1am today and am back in again at 8:45am tomorrow, what a life, love it (but yh lazy 20 sommat get another job etc etc).
Honestly thinking about using what I have saved to fuck off out of London and to go travelling for as long as I can. There is no future here.
Rant over, so knackered hope this makes sense.
Mad luv political CL, have a great Saturday x ''
Thanks for posting your experience .
You have my full sympathies.
Leaving London really is one way around many of the issues you raise. I have friends in the capital in similar situations and I say that to them, but it seems to be non-negotiable to them that they remain I'm the area they grew up with stable friend and family networks. It seems harsh when I tell "that's the price you have to pay then", but I say it anyway. Its still a sad choice, but it is a choice.
I posted a lot about this over in the HoC so won't repeat myself as it's there for everyone to read if they wish.
I agree with most of what everyone has posted on here. It is harder than certain times in the past, but it's also easier than at other times. I also agree that in my experience over the past 10+ years, there isn't the desire there once was to make certain sacrifices (not everyone, but in general). Again over on HoC I gave examples of two different people who've worked for me and the different outcomes, one was prepared to make sacrifices, the other none and how those decisions have had very different outcomes when it has come to finances and housing.
BUT, whichever side you sit, what is clear that in London/SE the bubble is getting bigger and it's only going to get much much worse.
I've just got home having met up with my nephew, he's actually now doing the opposite. Moving from the suburbs (Essex) into as near top central London as he can, he's costed it and with the money he'll save on travel plus the extra rental costs he'll be broadly neutral (it will cost about £100 a month more) but he'll save over 2.5 hours a day in travel.
I'm loathe to do this and fully expect to get called the things I do when I go into one of these tirades but.....
Life is a bastard, it is genuinely tough and in my current role I have a lot of whatever the generation is called that is now 18-30. Whenever lucrative Bank Holiday weekend overtime is offered it is always me and the other over 40s doing it, I've always engaged with the new intake and will always impart advice and my own version of wisdom when it's warranted and, and I know I'm generalising and will get called out on it, genuinely there is not the appetite or desire (I'm using these words a bit loose here) to miss out on anything to earn a pound note. I had one of the girls almost in tears as she feels she will never be able to get on the ladder but these fundamentals of doing call-outs, working overtime, not pulling into every Costa or Starbucks you pass, making a pack up as opposed to getting a nandos/subway/mickeys whatever as well as turning your nose up at driving a car that isn't fresh off the transporter with only delivery miles and needing the latest iPhone or Samsung, they aren't being fulfilled. Of course it isn't as simple as "do more hours, save money, clear debts, get house" but I tell you what, its a start and whilst I do have sympathy for the ridiculous cost of renting, interest rates going up (which always fuck those without/with less money as rarely is it saved and generally the more skint are more likely to be on high LTV % categories). Truly before I bought my first place I did the following
Moved in with parents Did not turn down a call out, ever Worked every second of overtime offered my way Sold my nice but impractical and uneconomical car and swapped it for something I actively disliked but was very affordable Took on cash work, mostly running a mobile disco and it wasn't unusual to be called out from midnight on a Friday, work Saturday until 1pm, go home, test all the sound and light gear, load car up and DJ somewhere until whenever and be called out again on the Sunday. I also did airport runs, sold stuff on Ebay, made a few calculated risks with buying a thousand Gillette razors from the other side of the world and selling them for half what they cost in the shops here
Look, it isn't a catch all and times have got harder but the peoples of the western world I have a suspicion have got a bit softer.
You have to be able to absorb a lot of low blows in life and take some vicious punches and at some point understand your place in things. If you gonna be daft you better be tough. Be brutal with yourself. Set goals, make it a goal to get a grand saved up as fast as possible, that was a real driver for me, I obsessed about pulling that target I'd set myself for a deposit together.
Even then once I'd been handed the keys and stepped over the threshold I realised I was absolutely potless again and had nothing to make the home I'd bought nice. The kitchen was horrific, the bathroom was a deathtrap so the whole cycle started again with me working all I could, living in a shithole and coming back to a dark, dusty, messy, slow moving building site to do a few more hours work to make it a home. Knowing what I know now I would have done a lot of things home-wise different and would have definitely carried on building a pot of money beyond the 10% deposit and various solicitors fees I had to pay so I didnt have to do so much myself.
For a number of reasons this won't work for everyone, for a start wages haven't come close to levelling the playing field with basic cost of living expenses such as rent. A two up two down in an ol area of Chatham is over a grand before bills now! That is insane.
A way out however to get on the ladder is part rent part buy and to get registered with key worker schemes as they do bear fruit, I dont like the way they are all run but at some point you value freedom and your own space more than the fact you only "own" 30% of it.
Yes older generations could buy a house for pocket change comparatively however they also had to walk everywhere or get the bus, central heating and double glazing was a pipedream as were foreign holidays, television, wasnt a plentiful choice of fruit, meat and veg in the shops. And there was no Internet.
It can be argued these days we are living in are the most convenient and easy to be lazy in the history of humanity. Give me a double glazed, allocated parking bay, timber-framed 30% owned newbuild over being born in the 30s or 40s. Although those fyckers did get the sixties and all that went with that
I'm loathe to do this and fully expect to get called the things I do when I go into one of these tirades but.....
Life is a bastard, it is genuinely tough and in my current role I have a lot of whatever the generation is called that is now 18-30. Whenever lucrative Bank Holiday weekend overtime is offered it is always me and the other over 40s doing it, I've always engaged with the new intake and will always impart advice and my own version of wisdom when it's warranted and, and I know I'm generalising and will get called out on it, genuinely there is not the appetite or desire (I'm using these words a bit loose here) to miss out on anything to earn a pound note. I had one of the girls almost in tears as she feels she will never be able to get on the ladder but these fundamentals of doing call-outs, working overtime, not pulling into every Costa or Starbucks you pass, making a pack up as opposed to getting a nandos/subway/mickeys whatever as well as turning your nose up at driving a car that isn't fresh off the transporter with only delivery miles and needing the latest iPhone or Samsung, they aren't being fulfilled. Of course it isn't as simple as "do more hours, save money, clear debts, get house" but I tell you what, its a start and whilst I do have sympathy for the ridiculous cost of renting, interest rates going up (which always fuck those without/with less money as rarely is it saved and generally the more skint are more likely to be on high LTV % categories). Truly before I bought my first place I did the following
Moved in with parents Did not turn down a call out, ever Worked every second of overtime offered my way Sold my nice but impractical and uneconomical car and swapped it for something I actively disliked but was very affordable Took on cash work, mostly running a mobile disco and it wasn't unusual to be called out from midnight on a Friday, work Saturday until 1pm, go home, test all the sound and light gear, load car up and DJ somewhere until whenever and be called out again on the Sunday. I also did airport runs, sold stuff on Ebay, made a few calculated risks with buying a thousand Gillette razors from the other side of the world and selling them for half what they cost in the shops here
Look, it isn't a catch all and times have got harder but the peoples of the western world I have a suspicion have got a bit softer.
You have to be able to absorb a lot of low blows in life and take some vicious punches and at some point understand your place in things. If you gonna be daft you better be tough. Be brutal with yourself. Set goals, make it a goal to get a grand saved up as fast as possible, that was a real driver for me, I obsessed about pulling that target I'd set myself for a deposit together.
Even then once I'd been handed the keys and stepped over the threshold I realised I was absolutely potless again and had nothing to make the home I'd bought nice. The kitchen was horrific, the bathroom was a deathtrap so the whole cycle started again with me working all I could, living in a shithole and coming back to a dark, dusty, messy, slow moving building site to do a few more hours work to make it a home. Knowing what I know now I would have done a lot of things home-wise different and would have definitely carried on building a pot of money beyond the 10% deposit and various solicitors fees I had to pay so I didnt have to do so much myself.
For a number of reasons this won't work for everyone, for a start wages haven't come close to levelling the playing field with basic cost of living expenses such as rent. A two up two down in an ol area of Chatham is over a grand before bills now! That is insane.
A way out however to get on the ladder is part rent part buy and to get registered with key worker schemes as they do bear fruit, I dont like the way they are all run but at some point you value freedom and your own space more than the fact you only "own" 30% of it.
Yes older generations could buy a house for pocket change comparatively however they also had to walk everywhere or get the bus, central heating and double glazing was a pipedream as were foreign holidays, television, wasnt a plentiful choice of fruit, meat and veg in the shops. And there was no Internet.
It can be argued these days we are living in are the most convenient and easy to be lazy in the history of humanity. Give me a double glazed, allocated parking bay, timber-framed 30% owned newbuild over being born in the 30s or 40s. Although those fyckers did get the sixties and all that went with that
completely ignoring the fact that a lot of young people now are saddled with thousands of pounds of debt after leaving university, which (apologies for assuming your age) a lot of home owners don't seem to take into account when they stick their oar in on this issue. But yeah right. Just suck it up and save right?
How much exactly were those tuition fees in the 80's and 90's again can someone remind me?
I think that one of the main issues we have is that almost every "scheme" to get the housing market moving for people is demand led, and never seems to be supply led.
Effectively we pick a group of people, make it easier for them to get on the ladder for a bit, but all that really does is push up house prices more because it's not revolving around building more houses, it's about giving some people more cash to buy them.
Its absolutely harder to get on the housing ladder now than it ever has been. People that don't have the next generation up able to help them out need to earn a pretty decent wage, and have a partner who does the same, or pretty much all the saving in the world won't do much.
The increases in standard of living brings with it a much higher take of our disposable income, so much so that to forego things like phones etc would mean you're doing the equivalent of living in the 1980s, which seems to be where the minds of some of the lucky buggers who bought a house with the loose change down the back of their sofa still seem to be.
I'm loathe to do this and fully expect to get called the things I do when I go into one of these tirades but.....
Life is a bastard, it is genuinely tough and in my current role I have a lot of whatever the generation is called that is now 18-30. Whenever lucrative Bank Holiday weekend overtime is offered it is always me and the other over 40s doing it, I've always engaged with the new intake and will always impart advice and my own version of wisdom when it's warranted and, and I know I'm generalising and will get called out on it, genuinely there is not the appetite or desire (I'm using these words a bit loose here) to miss out on anything to earn a pound note. I had one of the girls almost in tears as she feels she will never be able to get on the ladder but these fundamentals of doing call-outs, working overtime, not pulling into every Costa or Starbucks you pass, making a pack up as opposed to getting a nandos/subway/mickeys whatever as well as turning your nose up at driving a car that isn't fresh off the transporter with only delivery miles and needing the latest iPhone or Samsung, they aren't being fulfilled. Of course it isn't as simple as "do more hours, save money, clear debts, get house" but I tell you what, its a start and whilst I do have sympathy for the ridiculous cost of renting, interest rates going up (which always fuck those without/with less money as rarely is it saved and generally the more skint are more likely to be on high LTV % categories). Truly before I bought my first place I did the following
Moved in with parents Did not turn down a call out, ever Worked every second of overtime offered my way Sold my nice but impractical and uneconomical car and swapped it for something I actively disliked but was very affordable Took on cash work, mostly running a mobile disco and it wasn't unusual to be called out from midnight on a Friday, work Saturday until 1pm, go home, test all the sound and light gear, load car up and DJ somewhere until whenever and be called out again on the Sunday. I also did airport runs, sold stuff on Ebay, made a few calculated risks with buying a thousand Gillette razors from the other side of the world and selling them for half what they cost in the shops here
Look, it isn't a catch all and times have got harder but the peoples of the western world I have a suspicion have got a bit softer.
You have to be able to absorb a lot of low blows in life and take some vicious punches and at some point understand your place in things. If you gonna be daft you better be tough. Be brutal with yourself. Set goals, make it a goal to get a grand saved up as fast as possible, that was a real driver for me, I obsessed about pulling that target I'd set myself for a deposit together.
Even then once I'd been handed the keys and stepped over the threshold I realised I was absolutely potless again and had nothing to make the home I'd bought nice. The kitchen was horrific, the bathroom was a deathtrap so the whole cycle started again with me working all I could, living in a shithole and coming back to a dark, dusty, messy, slow moving building site to do a few more hours work to make it a home. Knowing what I know now I would have done a lot of things home-wise different and would have definitely carried on building a pot of money beyond the 10% deposit and various solicitors fees I had to pay so I didnt have to do so much myself.
For a number of reasons this won't work for everyone, for a start wages haven't come close to levelling the playing field with basic cost of living expenses such as rent. A two up two down in an ol area of Chatham is over a grand before bills now! That is insane.
A way out however to get on the ladder is part rent part buy and to get registered with key worker schemes as they do bear fruit, I dont like the way they are all run but at some point you value freedom and your own space more than the fact you only "own" 30% of it.
Yes older generations could buy a house for pocket change comparatively however they also had to walk everywhere or get the bus, central heating and double glazing was a pipedream as were foreign holidays, television, wasnt a plentiful choice of fruit, meat and veg in the shops. And there was no Internet.
It can be argued these days we are living in are the most convenient and easy to be lazy in the history of humanity. Give me a double glazed, allocated parking bay, timber-framed 30% owned newbuild over being born in the 30s or 40s. Although those fyckers did get the sixties and all that went with that
completely ignoring the fact that a lot of young people now are saddled with thousands of pounds of debt after leaving university, which (apologies for assuming your age) a lot of home owners don't seem to take into account when they stick their oar in on this issue. But yeah right. Just suck it up and save right?
How much exactly were those tuition fees in the 80's and 90's again can someone remind me?
If I'm honest I don't have the first idea how much a university education costs now or costed then. Never went, which is something else to think about. Are degrees worth that level of debt? Not in my book but I've worked since I left school. I'm 41 now and something I observed was a few of my pals who went to university were only catching up with me wages-wise in their 30s.
My point was, I agree it is horribly tough to get on the property ladder now but I dont know what you want me to say, don't graft and save, give up? By not doing anything it isn't going to suddenly get easier, successive governments have not done anything to get a grip on the elevating cost of rent and property prices and in the South East demand far outstrips supply.
There is a lot of injustice, I think higher education should be free or at least heavily subsidised certainly for core things. Even the more subjectively questionably valuable courses.
I'm loathe to do this and fully expect to get called the things I do when I go into one of these tirades but.....
Life is a bastard, it is genuinely tough and in my current role I have a lot of whatever the generation is called that is now 18-30. Whenever lucrative Bank Holiday weekend overtime is offered it is always me and the other over 40s doing it, I've always engaged with the new intake and will always impart advice and my own version of wisdom when it's warranted and, and I know I'm generalising and will get called out on it, genuinely there is not the appetite or desire (I'm using these words a bit loose here) to miss out on anything to earn a pound note. I had one of the girls almost in tears as she feels she will never be able to get on the ladder but these fundamentals of doing call-outs, working overtime, not pulling into every Costa or Starbucks you pass, making a pack up as opposed to getting a nandos/subway/mickeys whatever as well as turning your nose up at driving a car that isn't fresh off the transporter with only delivery miles and needing the latest iPhone or Samsung, they aren't being fulfilled. Of course it isn't as simple as "do more hours, save money, clear debts, get house" but I tell you what, its a start and whilst I do have sympathy for the ridiculous cost of renting, interest rates going up (which always fuck those without/with less money as rarely is it saved and generally the more skint are more likely to be on high LTV % categories). Truly before I bought my first place I did the following
Moved in with parents Did not turn down a call out, ever Worked every second of overtime offered my way Sold my nice but impractical and uneconomical car and swapped it for something I actively disliked but was very affordable Took on cash work, mostly running a mobile disco and it wasn't unusual to be called out from midnight on a Friday, work Saturday until 1pm, go home, test all the sound and light gear, load car up and DJ somewhere until whenever and be called out again on the Sunday. I also did airport runs, sold stuff on Ebay, made a few calculated risks with buying a thousand Gillette razors from the other side of the world and selling them for half what they cost in the shops here
Look, it isn't a catch all and times have got harder but the peoples of the western world I have a suspicion have got a bit softer.
You have to be able to absorb a lot of low blows in life and take some vicious punches and at some point understand your place in things. If you gonna be daft you better be tough. Be brutal with yourself. Set goals, make it a goal to get a grand saved up as fast as possible, that was a real driver for me, I obsessed about pulling that target I'd set myself for a deposit together.
Even then once I'd been handed the keys and stepped over the threshold I realised I was absolutely potless again and had nothing to make the home I'd bought nice. The kitchen was horrific, the bathroom was a deathtrap so the whole cycle started again with me working all I could, living in a shithole and coming back to a dark, dusty, messy, slow moving building site to do a few more hours work to make it a home. Knowing what I know now I would have done a lot of things home-wise different and would have definitely carried on building a pot of money beyond the 10% deposit and various solicitors fees I had to pay so I didnt have to do so much myself.
For a number of reasons this won't work for everyone, for a start wages haven't come close to levelling the playing field with basic cost of living expenses such as rent. A two up two down in an ol area of Chatham is over a grand before bills now! That is insane.
A way out however to get on the ladder is part rent part buy and to get registered with key worker schemes as they do bear fruit, I dont like the way they are all run but at some point you value freedom and your own space more than the fact you only "own" 30% of it.
Yes older generations could buy a house for pocket change comparatively however they also had to walk everywhere or get the bus, central heating and double glazing was a pipedream as were foreign holidays, television, wasnt a plentiful choice of fruit, meat and veg in the shops. And there was no Internet.
It can be argued these days we are living in are the most convenient and easy to be lazy in the history of humanity. Give me a double glazed, allocated parking bay, timber-framed 30% owned newbuild over being born in the 30s or 40s. Although those fyckers did get the sixties and all that went with that
completely ignoring the fact that a lot of young people now are saddled with thousands of pounds of debt after leaving university, which (apologies for assuming your age) a lot of home owners don't seem to take into account when they stick their oar in on this issue. But yeah right. Just suck it up and save right?
How much exactly were those tuition fees in the 80's and 90's again can someone remind me?
Something I hear banded around an awful lot, how much does a grad pay a month back of say a £25k salary on £50k debt? Zero isn't it? What about on roughly the average annual salary of £35k a year, about £45 a month isn't it? It's basically a small graduate tax which even on the average UK salary is sub 2%, lower earners it's zero.
By the way those not going to Uni (or going come to that) in the 80's would have paid a higher % of their salary in taxation anyway than someone leaving Uni now even with their loan repayment added as the tax free allowance was proportionately lower and the income tax rate started in the 30's%. Even by 1990 the starting rate had only reduced to 25%, still 5% more than now.
I wholeheartedly agree @carter as I've said over in the HoC. You make a valid point about the decision on going to uni or not. I was with 3 grads yesterday in the office in my team (well actually two are Grads one is an apprentice). The two grads, one did marine biology the other art. My industry is in the financial sector. Now I don't know how much student debt they have and/or if parents helped them, but I would question if that was a worthwhile degree for them based on their current career choices. The apprentices will be financial no worse off salary wise at the same age as those grads.
Comments
Don’t have the answer as whichever path it goes I fear the rental market will get harder. You could look at some form of regulated rents like we had until the 90’s but government/councils need funds as it will spark an exodus of selling in the BTL arena. Of course the old regulated rents there was a lot of additional burden on maintenance etc for the tenant which ultimately didn’t make the overall cost much cheaper.
Factually not even comparable.
Also, why will we not live as long as our parents?
Life expectancy has been flattening for a few year and has actually fallen in the last 2 years. Drill down into that and the fall is much larger for millennials and Gen Z who's life expectancy is now lower than their parents. This is the first time since the data was collected that this has ever happened and estimated to be the first time in history really. Its largely driven by 2 things 1) the wealth effects i.e. on average we will be less wealthy than our parent and so will have a lower standard of living and 2) massive underfunding of public services particularly health and prevention health but all areas will have an impact on life expectancy overall.
Obviously massive variation within the average and geographical and wealth factors will make a difference for the individual. But on average we will live shorter than our parents.
B - even if it was true its more often than not shared between siblings and may be enough to put a deposit on a house but are you really saying that its fine for someone to have to wait until their parents die in order to put a deposit down on a house? Thats before we even get to what its doing to the wealth divide.
Shell's £7bn profit for the first three months of the year is typical of the greed. SEVEN BILLION. Not even turnover; but profit.
One point - expect that a year on from the start of war in Ukraine inflation should fall but not prices. That is what most other European economies are seeing. Our inflation remains stubbornly high. Probably because of the extra costs of importing due to Brexit.
That flat today you would need 3 of you working at sainsburys to be able to get the mortgage on it.
But on this one, you are showing Mike for what he is.
What sort of fucking comment is that Mike?
Itv 8.30pm
I hope not much further.
The wife kept a tally a couple of months ago.
£400 shopping bill for the 2 of us for the month, don't drink indoors and get me meat from a butchers which is cheaper than the supermarkets.
''Yeah sorry but there are some people on this thread who are so far removed from reality its ridiculous.
So for reference I've lived in Lewisham my whole life (bar a brief 6 month stretch in Chelmsford before dropping out of Uni), am 26, have done an apprenticeship after A-levels (fully qualified bicycle mechanic with some other bits) and currently earn roughly 25k before tax. I've never been particularly motivated by money, I just want enough to get by and to be able to have a place (or space) that can be my own, rented or bought (gd one I know).
I managed to move out 1-2 years ago to rent (house share because anything else is impossible), I loved it but how can I justify roughly 40% of my take home going on rent even before bills. I wasn't loosing money but it was basically treading water, then with bills going up (energy particularly) it seemed like a never ending road to nowhere.
So before Christmas I moved back in with my parents. I find it so depressing to say that I'm one of the lucky ones to be able to do that, what a sad state of affairs when that's a favourable outcome. My sister had also done the same a few months prior. We're obviously both paying rent however parent rates are still more favourable than the standard market so I'm back saving a fair amount.
Yet despite this I cannot see how I will ever be able to own somewhere that is mine in the place that I've grown up and love. I cannot state how mentally crushing it is to get up everyday to earn something to put towards what is in reality an impossible dream. Even with saving my arse off home ownership gets further and further away, it all seems so pointless. I'm not opposed to renting either but in the current market/climate it is just not sustainable.
I'm aware this may come across as self-pity but I want to stress that's not the case, I know I am very fortunate and lucky to be able to fall back on my parents. For those who have mentioned about their own home ownership struggles in the past I'm sure it was tough in the times you mentioned to and well done on getting on the ladder, I just wanted to give a current real life example of what its like out there at the moment.
I'll also add I saw someone comment about younger people preferring to or opting (cos there is really a choice lol) to rent rather than own earlier in the thread?!?!? Honestly I've not come across 1 person in my age bracket who'd rather contribute to a landlords pension than have a mortgage of their own.
I'm writing this at 3:30am after working overtime (gotta get that £££ for nothing) 9am-1am today and am back in again at 8:45am tomorrow, what a life, love it (but yh lazy 20 sommat get another job etc etc).
Honestly thinking about using what I have saved to fuck off out of London and to go travelling for as long as I can. There is no future here.
Rant over, so knackered hope this makes sense.
Mad luv political CL, have a great Saturday x ''
I would of replied on the HOC thread but I've been to busy drowning in avocado toast and iphones.
You have my full sympathies.
Leaving London really is one way around many of the issues you raise. I have friends in the capital in similar situations and I say that to them, but it seems to be non-negotiable to them that they remain I'm the area they grew up with stable friend and family networks. It seems harsh when I tell "that's the price you have to pay then", but I say it anyway. Its still a sad choice, but it is a choice.
I agree with most of what everyone has posted on here. It is harder than certain times in the past, but it's also easier than at other times.
I also agree that in my experience over the past 10+ years, there isn't the desire there once was to make certain sacrifices (not everyone, but in general). Again over on HoC I gave examples of two different people who've worked for me and the different outcomes, one was prepared to make sacrifices, the other none and how those decisions have had very different outcomes when it has come to finances and housing.
BUT, whichever side you sit, what is clear that in London/SE the bubble is getting bigger and it's only going to get much much worse.
I've just got home having met up with my nephew, he's actually now doing the opposite. Moving from the suburbs (Essex) into as near top central London as he can, he's costed it and with the money he'll save on travel plus the extra rental costs he'll be broadly neutral (it will cost about £100 a month more) but he'll save over 2.5 hours a day in travel.
Life is a bastard, it is genuinely tough and in my current role I have a lot of whatever the generation is called that is now 18-30. Whenever lucrative Bank Holiday weekend overtime is offered it is always me and the other over 40s doing it, I've always engaged with the new intake and will always impart advice and my own version of wisdom when it's warranted and, and I know I'm generalising and will get called out on it, genuinely there is not the appetite or desire (I'm using these words a bit loose here) to miss out on anything to earn a pound note. I had one of the girls almost in tears as she feels she will never be able to get on the ladder but these fundamentals of doing call-outs, working overtime, not pulling into every Costa or Starbucks you pass, making a pack up as opposed to getting a nandos/subway/mickeys whatever as well as turning your nose up at driving a car that isn't fresh off the transporter with only delivery miles and needing the latest iPhone or Samsung, they aren't being fulfilled. Of course it isn't as simple as "do more hours, save money, clear debts, get house" but I tell you what, its a start and whilst I do have sympathy for the ridiculous cost of renting, interest rates going up (which always fuck those without/with less money as rarely is it saved and generally the more skint are more likely to be on high LTV % categories). Truly before I bought my first place I did the following
Moved in with parents
Did not turn down a call out, ever
Worked every second of overtime offered my way
Sold my nice but impractical and uneconomical car and swapped it for something I actively disliked but was very affordable
Took on cash work, mostly running a mobile disco and it wasn't unusual to be called out from midnight on a Friday, work Saturday until 1pm, go home, test all the sound and light gear, load car up and DJ somewhere until whenever and be called out again on the Sunday. I also did airport runs, sold stuff on Ebay, made a few calculated risks with buying a thousand Gillette razors from the other side of the world and selling them for half what they cost in the shops here
Look, it isn't a catch all and times have got harder but the peoples of the western world I have a suspicion have got a bit softer.
You have to be able to absorb a lot of low blows in life and take some vicious punches and at some point understand your place in things. If you gonna be daft you better be tough. Be brutal with yourself. Set goals, make it a goal to get a grand saved up as fast as possible, that was a real driver for me, I obsessed about pulling that target I'd set myself for a deposit together.
Even then once I'd been handed the keys and stepped over the threshold I realised I was absolutely potless again and had nothing to make the home I'd bought nice. The kitchen was horrific, the bathroom was a deathtrap so the whole cycle started again with me working all I could, living in a shithole and coming back to a dark, dusty, messy, slow moving building site to do a few more hours work to make it a home. Knowing what I know now I would have done a lot of things home-wise different and would have definitely carried on building a pot of money beyond the 10% deposit and various solicitors fees I had to pay so I didnt have to do so much myself.
For a number of reasons this won't work for everyone, for a start wages haven't come close to levelling the playing field with basic cost of living expenses such as rent. A two up two down in an ol area of Chatham is over a grand before bills now! That is insane.
A way out however to get on the ladder is part rent part buy and to get registered with key worker schemes as they do bear fruit, I dont like the way they are all run but at some point you value freedom and your own space more than the fact you only "own" 30% of it.
Yes older generations could buy a house for pocket change comparatively however they also had to walk everywhere or get the bus, central heating and double glazing was a pipedream as were foreign holidays, television, wasnt a plentiful choice of fruit, meat and veg in the shops. And there was no Internet.
It can be argued these days we are living in are the most convenient and easy to be lazy in the history of humanity. Give me a double glazed, allocated parking bay, timber-framed 30% owned newbuild over being born in the 30s or 40s. Although those fyckers did get the sixties and all that went with that
How much exactly were those tuition fees in the 80's and 90's again can someone remind me?
Effectively we pick a group of people, make it easier for them to get on the ladder for a bit, but all that really does is push up house prices more because it's not revolving around building more houses, it's about giving some people more cash to buy them.
Its absolutely harder to get on the housing ladder now than it ever has been. People that don't have the next generation up able to help them out need to earn a pretty decent wage, and have a partner who does the same, or pretty much all the saving in the world won't do much.
The increases in standard of living brings with it a much higher take of our disposable income, so much so that to forego things like phones etc would mean you're doing the equivalent of living in the 1980s, which seems to be where the minds of some of the lucky buggers who bought a house with the loose change down the back of their sofa still seem to be.
My point was, I agree it is horribly tough to get on the property ladder now but I dont know what you want me to say, don't graft and save, give up? By not doing anything it isn't going to suddenly get easier, successive governments have not done anything to get a grip on the elevating cost of rent and property prices and in the South East demand far outstrips supply.
There is a lot of injustice, I think higher education should be free or at least heavily subsidised certainly for core things. Even the more subjectively questionably valuable courses.
By the way those not going to Uni (or going come to that) in the 80's would have paid a higher % of their salary in taxation anyway than someone leaving Uni now even with their loan repayment added as the tax free allowance was proportionately lower and the income tax rate started in the 30's%. Even by 1990 the starting rate had only reduced to 25%, still 5% more than now.
I wholeheartedly agree @carter as I've said over in the HoC. You make a valid point about the decision on going to uni or not. I was with 3 grads yesterday in the office in my team (well actually two are Grads one is an apprentice). The two grads, one did marine biology the other art. My industry is in the financial sector. Now I don't know how much student debt they have and/or if parents helped them, but I would question if that was a worthwhile degree for them based on their current career choices. The apprentices will be financial no worse off salary wise at the same age as those grads.