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edited July 2007 in General Charlton
Jimmymelrose touched upon it earlier,

despite the fact he was an absolute disaster for us in every possible sense you can imagine, i still haven't got it in me to completely loathe the bloke.

Him and his spell just now seems one of those irrelevent times that happened and ended in a blink of an eyelid. I'm sure he will get a bit of a frosty reception when he returns, but i can't see it being to bad or anything. Personally i think i'll just ignore him, but it almost feels to me like it never happened.

Am i alone ?


  • no I am with you he is irrelevant now ALMOST forgotten as if it didn't happen.

    It's kinda if he wasn't so shit we wouldn't have got Pards. Granted we are paying and paid for his mistakes but it happens in football and we will come out stronger the other end.
  • never really liked the bloke anyway to be honest...before he joined us!
  • Totally agree with you all there although i can't help feeling that he started the passion in the stands last season, am i wrong?
  • Pluses: He did his best, he worked hard and it was never going to be easy replacing Curbs and having to rebuild the side to boot, especially as a lot of Premiership class players were out of our financial league which meant taking a chance on the likes of Diawara and Andy Reid and his history of injuries. Plus he inherited a coaching set-up with Les Reed and Mark Robson as his deputies, and Andy Mills as GM and he didn't appear to gel with them and he had horrendous luck with injuries at the start of the season.

    Negatives: Traore and Faye, especially concerning the money they arrived at, Walton - came, went on loan and has been sold on at a loss, and he should have signed someone/anyone other than JFH to partner Darren Bent.

    Personally while he made mistakes tactically and squad wise, it could have worked had he had a bit more luck.
  • with that new management structure, who is to say how much Dowie was to blame for the signings? and isn't that what was wrong with the whole arrangement?
  • Lets be fair, when I first looked at our first 8 fixtures I said I wouldn't have been suprised if we we on nil points after the first 8. After the poxy start we had it hit all the players confidence in a fledgling squad.

    I don't think any manager could have achieved different results, and lets remember on paper this time last year Fat Boy and Darren Bent looked to be among the best in the country....
  • we judge him on his purchases and on team performance, the latter was more Dowies area, the former 'apparently' more of a team effort?
  • nothing here to really make me need to hate him.
  • I think he tried his best- it just wasn't good enough-

    Talked a good job, and was good at talking people up.

    A good staff seargent, a poor major.

    As for "hating him" bit pointless really.
  • edited July 2007
    Whoever followed Curbs was going to have difficulties because Curbs did such a magnificent job over a long period of time and squeezed every drop of potential and ability from most of his players the majority of the time.

    In reality the best we were ever going to do was midtable and Dowie being given a job above his competence meant that was even beyond us.

    Pardew is as good a manager as we realistically can get so we just have to trust in him and hope that he can get us promoted first time.
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  • you forgot to add - left us with loads of overpaid hasbeens..
  • [cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]you forgot to add - left us with loads of overpaid hasbeens..

    We will never know what he would have done had he been allowed to see out his contract.

    That's why I consider it unfair to lay any blame at Curb's door.

    Those "overpaid hasbeens" kept us in the Prem under Curbs.
  • edited July 2007
    Big bent oversaw our doom... and others, in my opinion it was all a matter of time, the rot had well and truly set in, all it needed was a bad first run of games and we would've been history. Mind you its all ifs and buts, if he'd signed a new deal, if the board had backed him, who knows..

    Undeniable however is that we needed a major, major overhaul when dowie arrived, with no upcoming talent, homegrown or otherwise.. and then the newbies needing time to gel.
  • I can agree with most of that and I'm sure that had Curbs stayed he would have strengthened the obvious areas.
  • not so sure but who knows? Whoever was responsible it was always gonna be a make or break season, and I'm not sure its been a bad thing.
  • We needed a change for sure, I would rather be where we are now than be facing another season like Curb's last three.
  • We definitely needed change after Curbs.

    And as said by others, a vicious early fixture list coupled with a horrendous injury list meant Dowie just couldn't get going - and evidently resulted in early tensions amongst staff and general loss of confidence amongst players.

    It all changed when Pards arrived. But if a couple of draws had turned into wins towards the end of the season, we could have just about clawed our way to safety, like Wigan. And that's without taking into account the West Scam/Tevez thing.

    We lost it, though, with Les Reeds disasterous few weeks when it was patently obvious that we were totally rudderless.
  • You lot all seem to be missing the point.

    I wouldn't mind if he were just a crap manager - that he didn't have the ability to do the job (and I don't accept the bad luck stories anyway)

    He was irresponsible. Why do you all think he got the sack? Because of bad results? With our board I don't think so. The guy did other shit that upset the team and set us on a downward spiral. It only needs a little reading between the lines.

    Some of you may think it pointless to hate him - well it's pointless to hate anybody. There is a damn good reason to utterly dislike the guy and be angry with him. I'm angry with him - angrier than with Marcus Bent (although I dislike him as much as you lot do). Did Marcus Bent get the sack? No. Why not? Because ultimately he's done nothing wrong. He's just incompetant. Dowie is more than incompetant. He's guilty of (apart from wasting money) of neglecting his duties as a manager. Otherwise he wouldn't have got the sack. He deserves more stick than any player has ever received.
  • Managers are sacked all the time - doesn't mean that they've necessarily done any particular thing wrong, but more likely that results aren't good enough.
  • [quote][cite]Posted By: AllLeftFoot[/cite]Managers are sacked all the time - doesn't mean that they've necessarily done any particular thing wrong, but more likely that results aren't good enough.[/quote]

    Sacked all the time. At Charlton? Come on -think about it! This was nothing to do with results.
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  • dowie should not have taken the job,to work under such constraints. under the conditions that he was taken under,i doubt whether pardew would have accepted the same terms.

    and jordans court case wasn't too helpful either.
  • There may have been more to it, but I don't see how the problems at the start of last season can be seen to be all of
    Dowie's making.

    Putting men who hadn't worked with each other before together in a three-man management team was odd - maybe Dowie should have insisted on bringing in his own people to work with him, as most other managers would probably have done.

    As Oggy says, it was then obvious that we were rudderless under Uncle Les - but that didn't prevent him being given a three-year contract.

    Pardew arrived and the 'Head Coach' title and three wise men system was scrapped. Too little too late in the end, but here's hoping for a more enjoyable and successful season!
  • I agree that the management set-up was wrong - I even argued that point at the time on here if I remember rightly. Other than that I stand by what I say. For one thing, Dowie agreed to it and then went and did otherwise thus upsetting staff along the way.
  • There was a lack of trust which developed principally between Dowie and RM. Whatever the reasons were for that

    Bob Dowie turning up in the dressing room at Craven Cottage
    The Newcastle Fiasco
    The signings
    Dowie disappearing unannounced to visit his family
    The Court Case

    the guy was going to find following the Curbs/RM axis very difficult to follow. The fixtures didn't help, the "thin" squad didn't help. You just wonder though what Pards (or Curbs) would have achieved with the £11M that Dowie had to play with?

    Frankly I just think he wasn't the right choice, pure and simple. (By the way I thought he was a good appointment at the time so what do I know!!)
  • For me, no feelings either way really - don't htae him but couldn't take to him either.

    As for the money he spent...£11m sounds a lot and although he brought in Faye, Traore,JFH and Walton he also brought in Reid and Diawara who will prove to be solid buys.........and just n case you have other doubts, Sunderland have spent £20 m this summer on what... ???
  • It wasn't the first 7 or 8 games that did for Dowie - it was the 1 point from Fulham away and Watford at home that made it curtains for him (and eventually us) since any run gathering some points would have stopped the board from pulling the trigger.

    In retrospect the best scenario from a points and stability perspective would have been keep Curbs then replace him with Pardew when he was sacked by West Ham - but that would have meant acting without integrity which is NOT the Charlton way.

    Dowie's version of footy did make it the most exciting season in years but.... Billy Davies anyone !
  • [quote][cite]Posted By: jimmymelrose[/cite]I agree that the management set-up was wrong - I even argued that point at the time on here if I remember rightly. Other than that I stand by what I say. For one thing, Dowie agreed to it and then went and did otherwise thus upsetting staff along the way.[/quote]

    It's petty minded to hate someone for making a few mistakes in the transfer market and I'm pretty sure you would have agreed to taking the job under those conditions considering the money that was on offer. Few people get to choose their team and that he was the last piece in was more the fault of the club in not building a structure around him rather than imposing him on an existing structure.

    Dowie failed for a number of reasons, poor tactics in some games, poor transfer purchases were his fault, but the injury list wasn't. Give him a break he did his best, just that his best wasn't good enough. If we'd taken a few more points here and there - particularly against the newly promoted teams then we'd still be in the Premiership. However I'm equally certain that were it not for Darren Bent we'd have been relegated the previous season.
  • Hate is a pretty strong word.

    He was a tactically inept, useless motivator, surrounded by the wrong people, in the wrong system (not his fault).

    His only good deal was Carson (jury is still out on reid and diawara imo) and he pretty much undone 10 years of good work in 3 months.

    He bought players in on high wages that didnt care for the club - JFH, Faye, Traore, Diawara and couldnt get anything out of any of them.

    The only reason people dont hate him is that he was actually very nice to the fans, talked us up and got an atmosphere going which was something Curbs didnt/couldnt do in his last couple of years. He talked a good game but couldnt deliver.

    He didnt get good a start but my abiding memory of Dowie was that he had a cracking little side at Fulham, home to Watford, away to Wigan and yet he was totally tactically inept. We should never have lost at Fulham or Wigan but when he needed to grind out a 0-0 he couldnt. He had no defensive tactics. It was when I walked out of Fulham in October that I knew the game was up, bloody October.

    Basically I thought he was useless and 75% of the reason why we went down last season. Some people seem to think that is a blessing in disguise. I am afraid that I dont.

    The mistakes that were made last season have put the club back 3-5 years.

    But I still dont hate him.
    edited July 2007
    [cite]Posted By: Southendaddick[/cite] he pretty much undone 10 years of good work in 3 months.
    I'm pretty sure all of that good work was slowly unravelling like a thread on a button of a Ciro Citerrio suit for at least three years before Dowie's arrival. All he done was what I would have done, pull the thread causing the button to fall off prematurely and leaving it in my pocket until mum (Pards) bothered to sew it back on.
  • Sorry fella I just dont see where that comes from.

    The start that we had in 05/06 was some of the best football I had ever seen. Murphy pulling the strings, Bent up front, solid at the back.

    Curbs problem was that he would get us in a great position by February and then bore the arse out of us for the next 3 months and lose most matches.

    It was more exciting last season cos we had something to play for. Had he stayed last season and spent £11m in the summer I am 99% certain we would have stayed up.

    Its irrelevant now, Pardew is our King, we have players that want to play for us and a manager that has completely reformed the club for the better so lets not have a debate about 3 managers ago.
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