I posted this thread on the post match vs Utd, but has some relevance here.
Reflecting on the game, the result wasn't that important. What stood out for me is that there is a reconnect between the players, manager and the team, with the fans. For too long, whether it was caused by owners, managers and the frustration of inconsistent results, players that didn't seem to be putting in a shift, there was so much vitriol. Fans seemed ready to pounce, to pan the team for poor performances, and some might say fully deserved. But when push comes to shove, it's our Charlton, our team, our heritage. How much is this down to Dean Holden, I don't know, but listening to his press conferences about we've got to learn to win ugly, the Dobson tackle against Lincoln springs to mind, the mindset of the players seemed to have changed, they appear more together, instructions simplified, eg Inness lumping the ball out for throw ins, rather than trying to be cute around the back four. Pushing Fraser further up the pitch to influence games, getting CBT and Rak-Sakyi to put in a shift, and I could list many others. All these small, but significant changes look like they have galvanised the team. Guess the acid test will be against Barnsley on Saturday, but certainly there is a new vibe around the club.
I liked that clip inside the dressing room after the game, posted on Twatter, particularly when Holden said, “ look at me when I’m talking to you” ........
I liked that clip inside the dressing room after the game, posted on Twatter, particularly when Holden said, “ look at me when I’m talking to you” ........
Our biggest issue, and it was bought up by Garner ,was the culture at the club. I remember him saying early on that we played with a fear that he couldn't explain. So transfers are not my primary concern.. I thought we had no leaders 5 weeks ago. Dobson at a push but nobody was taking any responsibility on the pitch....and then comes last night. A team of leaders that showed bravery I haven't seen for quite some time.
If Holden can remove this fear factor and make them play with a bit of pride then it could be an interesting second half of the season. The early signs are good.
It’s impressive how he’s worked out his starting eleven and formation v quickly. I never knew from one week to the next what Garner was going to come up with. Not sure he did either.
Holden’s Oxford line up worried me but he learnt from that and quickly moved on.
Great management technique too. He said after Lincoln that we had too many players who could only last 60/70 mins or not play Sat/Tues/Sat. He called their bluff on that last night well and truly. Let’s hope they’re not too knackered for Sat!!
Can't decide how i feel about the 'listen when I'm talking ' comment from Holden afrer the game..
The squad needed discipline. It's fine as long as everyone buys into it
I personally think it’s a good thing. He’s in charge and the players know it. He strikes me as the type of manage who knows when to encourage and also knows when he needs to give players a kick up the arse. I actually much prefer what he has to say rather than the previous few managers. Early days still, but definitely impressed with him.
I posted this thread on the post match vs Utd, but has some relevance here.
Reflecting on the game, the result wasn't that important. What stood out for me is that there is a reconnect between the players, manager and the team, with the fans. For too long, whether it was caused by owners, managers and the frustration of inconsistent results, players that didn't seem to be putting in a shift, there was so much vitriol. Fans seemed ready to pounce, to pan the team for poor performances, and some might say fully deserved. But when push comes to shove, it's our Charlton, our team, our heritage. How much is this down to Dean Holden, I don't know, but listening to his press conferences about we've got to learn to win ugly, the Dobson tackle against Lincoln springs to mind, the mindset of the players seemed to have changed, they appear more together, instructions simplified, eg Inness lumping the ball out for throw ins, rather than trying to be cute around the back four. Pushing Fraser further up the pitch to influence games, getting CBT and Rak-Sakyi to put in a shift, and I could list many others. All these small, but significant changes look like they have galvanised the team. Guess the acid test will be against Barnsley on Saturday, but certainly there is a new vibe around the club.
One thing I like about him is I don't think football is rocket science. Yes, there are lots of complications which is a bit like a swan's legs under the water, but the basics are just that. It was obvious at OT that we had to try to keep it at 1-0 and take the risk with 10 to go. It didn't work out but given the quaity we were facing, it was the only way and that is what Holden did. Simple on field decisions and building confidence and the squad and you get where you want to go. The difficult parts we don't see, but the parts we do see should be simple common sense.
Curbishley loved to trot out “we need to get back to basics” after a few bad results. It’s probably a tired cliche but it does help to push the reset button every now and then. I see Holden as that sort of manager. First and foremost I think players at our level certainly need to have a shape to the team and feel confident in what they are doing. I don’t think the players under Garner were good enough to follow his more complex direction. So far I’m quite impressed with DH. Whether he can push on from just steadying the ship remains to be seen.
I think whilst it is laudible when a team builds from the back, you don't do it when you have Lavelle and Innis. Holden is looking at what he has got and allowing that to dictate how we play which is the right thing to do unless you spend bucketloads bringing the type of players in to play a system.
Going a bit against the crowd here, but I’m Reserving judgement.
Fact is the team have picked up since Portsmouth. He’s had more options available to him (key being Leaburn returning and relieving Stockley of his nightmare period) but he’s manager, so he should get the credit for that.
Initial impression is there’s an element of non-league about him. The ‘look at me when I’m talking to you’, kicking and snapping things in the dressing room etc reminds me a lot of the Salford joint manager wallies in that programme. Seems a fair amount of crowd pleasing exaggeration in what he says as well and definitely an air of a football fan getting a managers job and saying things an average football fan wants to hear.
can he motivate beyond an initial reaction and aggressive approach? Can he keep a calm head and be tactically astute mid games? Can he improve players on the training ground?
We’ll find that all out over time. I’ll back him and sing his name like all our managers, but im holding fire on the analysis for now.
Lets not exaggerate him simply asking the players to lift their heads and look at him. It's being incorrectly referenced as some kind of Football factory thing on here now.
Going a bit against the crowd here, but I’m Reserving judgement.
Definitely, 5 mins in who knows how good/bad/ugly this northerner is going to be . We all want him to be the bees knees but no point tugging him off until he has a proper hard on, rather than the fellatio that was performed by some far too early on Garner before he'd even risen to the occasion
Lets not exaggerate him simply asking the players to lift their heads and look at him. It's being incorrectly referenced as some kind of Football factory thing on here now.
Everything is being exaggerated at the moment.
Holden's doing fine, Bonne is a half decent signing, We know nothing hard of those trying to buy the club, Stockley isn't that bad (just doesn't suit our formation), Garner wasn't bad We didn't play that well/badly against Man U Fraser's mistake wasn't that bad in the game. Clare isn't that bad at RB (we just have a better one in Egbo)
He seems to have galvanized the squad. I won’t get too carried away, as Jackson had an impact when he first took over, and then it became stale.
However, there is something about his manner and the way he talks that has made me warm to him. And that’s coming from an opinion where I didn’t have too much respect for the fact he took this job on and working for TS. Let’s see.
If he does stay longer than 6 months, then the whole family up north thing would be hard for him. I just don’t think it’s good to be away from your home like that
He clearly believes he can do it and we should afford him every chance we can to prove it. Chances like this don't always arrive in football and I'm sure there are lots of good managers who never get them. I would expect his family to move down here if he does establish himself but it wouldn't make sense now, not because of the fans, but the unpredictable way the club seems to be run.
I Posted this on the press conferences thread but feel it has more relevance here.
I like this manager a lot. Commands respect and will get the best out of the players IMO. I feel he will quickly identify the players who will take the club forward and gradually lose the ones who should not be here. Direct talker but with empathy. Has the gravitas of a real Manager rather than the role of just a Coach.
I already feel he is very right for this club and I hope he stays with us a long time.
Lets not exaggerate him simply asking the players to lift their heads and look at him. It's being incorrectly referenced as some kind of Football factory thing on here now.
Everything is being exaggerated at the moment.
Holden's doing fine, Bonne is a half decent signing, We know nothing hard of those trying to buy the club, Stockley isn't that bad(just doesn't suit our formation), Garner wasn't bad We didn't play that well/badly against Man U Fraser's mistake wasn't that bad in the game. Clare isn't that bad at RB (we just have a better one in Egbo)
It’s not just a formation thing with Stockley imho.
As for the second bit, well, enjoy the good performances when you can, particularly against the richest club in the world featuring a world cup winner and a bunch of internationals. To be in with a shout in the 90th minute, with our goalie not having been bombarded all match was way beyond my expectations.
Agree about Fraser though. Even if his shot had been on target the keeper might have saved it.
I like what I see so far.When Lennie took up the reins he was far from a household name and that ended well ..let's face it we've been playing manager bingo for a longtime maybe this one can come good..I wish him well and I ll get behind him .
Comments
I assume Sandgaard was advised and he listened to the advice!
Reflecting on the game, the result wasn't that important. What stood out for me is that there is a reconnect between the players, manager and the team, with the fans. For too long, whether it was caused by owners, managers and the frustration of inconsistent results, players that didn't seem to be putting in a shift, there was so much vitriol. Fans seemed ready to pounce, to pan the team for poor performances, and some might say fully deserved. But when push comes to shove, it's our Charlton, our team, our heritage.
How much is this down to Dean Holden, I don't know, but listening to his press conferences about we've got to learn to win ugly, the Dobson tackle against Lincoln springs to mind, the mindset of the players seemed to have changed, they appear more together, instructions simplified, eg Inness lumping the ball out for throw ins, rather than trying to be cute around the back four. Pushing Fraser further up the pitch to influence games, getting CBT and Rak-Sakyi to put in a shift, and I could list many others. All these small, but significant changes look like they have galvanised the team.
Guess the acid test will be against Barnsley on Saturday, but certainly there is a new vibe around the club.
I remember him saying early on that we played with a fear that he couldn't explain.
So transfers are not my primary concern..
I thought we had no leaders 5 weeks ago. Dobson at a push but nobody was taking any responsibility on the pitch....and then comes last night. A team of leaders that showed bravery I haven't seen for quite some time.
If Holden can remove this fear factor and make them play with a bit of pride then it could be an interesting second half of the season.
The early signs are good.
The squad needed discipline.
It's fine as long as everyone buys into it
No problem with that
Give me a mad passionate northern football fan manager over a lily livered southern ponce who cries about everything ...
This is football , it's all madness , fuck northerners too
The proof of the pudding etc ........
Fact is the team have picked up since Portsmouth. He’s had more options available to him (key being Leaburn returning and relieving Stockley of his nightmare period) but he’s manager, so he should get the credit for that.
Initial impression is there’s an element of non-league about him. The ‘look at me when I’m talking to you’, kicking and snapping things in the dressing room etc reminds me a lot of the Salford joint manager wallies in that programme. Seems a fair amount of crowd pleasing exaggeration in what he says as well and definitely an air of a football fan getting a managers job and saying things an average football fan wants to hear.
can he motivate beyond an initial reaction and aggressive approach? Can he keep a calm head and be tactically astute mid games? Can he improve players on the training ground?
We all want him to be the bees knees but no point tugging him off until he has a proper hard on, rather than the fellatio that was performed by some far too early on Garner before he'd even risen to the occasion
Holden's doing fine,
Bonne is a half decent signing,
We know nothing hard of those trying to buy the club,
Stockley isn't that bad (just doesn't suit our formation),
Garner wasn't bad
We didn't play that well/badly against Man U
Fraser's mistake wasn't that bad in the game.
Clare isn't that bad at RB (we just have a better one in Egbo)
I Posted this on the press conferences thread but feel it has more relevance here.
I like this manager a lot. Commands respect and will get the best out of the players IMO. I feel he will quickly identify the players who will take the club forward and gradually lose the ones who should not be here. Direct talker but with empathy. Has the gravitas of a real Manager rather than the role of just a Coach.
I already feel he is very right for this club and I hope he stays with us a long time.
SCP :-)