Some interesting comments on both sides of the argument, and as usual @ShootersHillGuru is right to say that most of us don’t have the visibility inside the club to even speculate effectively.
One non-speculative thing I would say, is that this is a business, as I am sure TS wishes us all to accept. Well in any business the buck stops at the top. Even more so if the biz is distinctly medium size and the bloke at the top gets heavily involved personally in key decisions that competitors leave to suitably qualified senior managers. And even more so if the owner brings his completely unqualified son into a senior role which clearly impacts the (apparent) role that has been assigned to Gallen.
In retrospect bringing his son in is the point when the light should have changed from flashing amber to red for me, and I’m embarrassed that I didnt face up to it, preferring to keep telling myself that he saved us from the crooks. It remains true but it is also true that the state of our squad (including its fitness, as I keep saying) is ultimately on him.
Too harsh on yourself. Nepotism in football is not uncommon.
Also wasn't it billed more as he (MS) is learning from SG and others and is more of a data man? Can only take that at face value in absence of other confirmed information rather than guesswork by some.
if you sent a blind man into harrods with a million pound and said buy what you want, he wouldnt necessarily come out with decent things. If you send a man who can see into harrods with a pound , he cant afford anything but he has to still make a choice on buying something. This is Steve Gallen
Steve Gallen has very good interpersonal and diplomatic skills.
For some reason I mentally bracket him with @bobmunro of this parish. Gallen attended the Trust AGM after the Bowyer Wembley Game. Thomas Driesen attended that game as part of the official party. When Gallen was asked about Driesen, and if Driesen had some kind of final say, his quite lengthy answer was generous and diplomatic, there wasn’t a hint of ire towards Driesen, indeed he was good humoured towards him and had encouraged Jacko and Bowyer to be friendly and welcoming. Any collaborating with Driesen would be another factor in the range of interpersonal skills Gallen would needfully and respectfully deploy in his role. I think that presently Steve Gallen behaves in a way intended to try to bring people together, but he has his football knowledge and contacts such as those attributes may be. Whether Steve is a good judge of a player is one thing, but the way he conducts himself in his job is a first rate other thing.
Steve Gallen has very good interpersonal and diplomatic skills.
For some reason I mentally bracket him with @bobmunro of this parish. Gallen attended the Trust AGM after the Bowyer Wembley Game. Thomas Driesen attended that game as part of the official party. When Gallen was asked about Driesen, and if Driesen had some kind of final say, his quite lengthy answer was generous and diplomatic, there wasn’t a hint of ire towards Driesen, indeed he was good humoured towards him and had encouraged Jacko and Bowyer to be friendly and welcoming. Any collaborating with Driesen would be another factor in the range of interpersonal skills Gallen would needfully and respectfully deploy in his role. I think that presently Steve Gallen behaves in a way intended to try to bring people together, but he has his football knowledge and contacts such as those attributes may be. Whether Steve is a good judge of a player is one thing, but the way he conducts himself in his job is a first rate other thing.
Being nice doesn't get you very far in life, Seth and is that what we want?
Clearly better than being a 'hunt' but if that produces results better than at the moment, then I know which one I'd prefer.
I think Gallen's connections have helped us over the years, certainly with the players we have had on loan, and the players we have received via loan/free transfer from Palace.
If you look at his record since he's been here, he is responsible for the likes of Bielik, Gallagher, Cullen, Williams, Lyle Taylor, Da Silva, Innis, Rak-Sakyi, obviously these are the highlights, and many of them loans, as we haven't been spending money whilst he's been here.
The connections help with loans especially, but his record when signing permanent players with a fee, certainly doesn't seem that great. It can also be argued that he has to try and find some gems amongst the yellow sticker items from other teams, but recruitment seems to have got noticeably worse.
Without any of us knowing what his exact remit is and how much control he has, it is impossible to make any judgement. What is true is the current system isn't working: although I suspect part of that is because of the manager not having enough control.
Seemed to have a better track record when there was little expectations on recruitment and his little book of contacts was priceless. I don't think it's any coincidence that some of the better players had come from the same pool... Dasilva, Maatsen, Gallagher.
He's never been a scout, had never worked a recruitment role at a club either before us (I'm pretty sure). Spoken of as a good negotiator and contacts in the game is a good thing, would retain his services if there were changes to the wider scouting/ recruitment process - a more traditional scout coming in as the head por example.
Or maybe he's completely to blame as according to some the Sandgaards never got involved and the black box is a myth or some nonsense like that.
Not every player you bring in will be a success. That’s a fact.
For every Mark Kinsella, John Robinson, Clive Mendonca, Josh Cullen you will have a Ralph Milne, Simon Francis, Neil Redfearn.
Ralph Milne was signed by a manager called Alex Ferguson and Simon Francis went on to be managed by Eddie Howe and captained Bournemouth in the Premier. Neil Redfern cost a million at the time and didn't live up to that tag.
Had opportunities last season to chat to Scouts, agents and dad's of players and it really isn't an exact science when you buy players or get players on loan. Crazy stories of gazumping, agent demands and players who shouldn't be allowed out without a carer or chaperone. One scout I met from a league 2 club refused to talk about number 6's as a defensive midfielder because to him that should be the Left sided CB !
Steve Gallen even with a budget having to get his 5th choice sometimes.
Seemed to have a better track record when there was little expectations on recruitment and his little book of contacts was priceless. I don't think it's any coincidence that some of the better players had come from the same pool... Dasilva, Maatsen, Gallagher.
He's never been a scout, had never worked a recruitment role at a club either before us (I'm pretty sure). Spoken of as a good negotiator and contacts in the game is a good thing, would retain his services if there were changes to the wider scouting/ recruitment process - a more traditional scout coming in as the head por example.
Or maybe he's completely to blame as according to some the Sandgaards never got involved and the black box is a myth or some nonsense like that.
He is brilliant, and I mean brilliant, at finding out who is available. Ask him to find a midfielder who is free, wants less than 2k a week and he will find someone. I want a left back on loan, he will find one. I need a striker now zero budget he will find one.
Now ask him to find the next Jamie Vardy from the non league and he isn't very good at all.
You need someone who can do that at the club. You need other things as well though.
There were three parts to the recruitment team that was so successful in summer 2018 - Gallen, Bowyer, and (as much as some will scoff) Driesen. Hard for us to know who from that group was a help or a hindrance and to what extent they helped or hindered, but that was the team that did such a good job. They also did a fair job in summer 2019 identifying and securing, for example, Connor Gallagher. Since that trio was broken up, first with Driesen leaving and then Bowyer, our recruitment has steadily decreased in quality.
Again, hard to say what is root cause, contributing factor, or coincidence. Is it the people, is it the budget, is it upper management interference, was the earlier success blind luck, or at least partly dependent on the quality of player available at the time (has anyone in League One been able to sign three players for no transfer fee as good as Taylor, Cullen, and Bielik since we did it)?
I suspect Gallen is good at what he is good at, but needs help with other things. Perhaps he, Bowyer, and Driesen complimented each other well in what they could and could not bring to the table. Perhaps our subsequent managers do not have such a good eye for who is and is not a good player for their system as Bowyer had, or perhaps Driesen had a better spreadsheet that Martin Sandgaard. Whetever the case I suspect Gallen is not one of our biggest issues right now.
Gallen was good when him and Bowyer were left to do their own thing, ever since Martin started helping him its been nothing short of awful, we really that whole family out the club if takes relegation and a total rebuild in league 2 then so be it
Driesen done the homework on the players that to be honest is very geeky but effective. No one is doing that now. A lot of the signings over the past 3 years wouldn’t have been here. People want to hate him so bad because of Roland and how it started. But gradually it got better and better.
Driesen done the homework on the players that to be honest is very geeky but effective. No one is doing that now. A lot of the signings over the past 3 years wouldn’t have been here. People want to hate him so bad because of Roland and how it started. But gradually it got better and better.
People hate Driesen because he is the perfect example of why Roland failed, he was given a responsibility he didn't deserve and was simply unqualified for. Plus he doesn't accept any responsbility for any of the poor signings, only the decent ones or ones we missed out on who have gone on to do well.
Seemed to have a better track record when there was little expectations on recruitment and his little book of contacts was priceless. I don't think it's any coincidence that some of the better players had come from the same pool... Dasilva, Maatsen, Gallagher.
He's never been a scout, had never worked a recruitment role at a club either before us (I'm pretty sure). Spoken of as a good negotiator and contacts in the game is a good thing, would retain his services if there were changes to the wider scouting/ recruitment process - a more traditional scout coming in as the head por example.
Or maybe he's completely to blame as according to some the Sandgaards never got involved and the black box is a myth or some nonsense like that.
He is brilliant, and I mean brilliant, at finding out who is available. Ask him to find a midfielder who is free, wants less than 2k a week and he will find someone. I want a left back on loan, he will find one. I need a striker now zero budget he will find one.
Now ask him to find the next Jamie Vardy from the non league and he isn't very good at all.
You need someone who can do that at the club. You need other things as well though.
The big problem is that he did find us a couple of strikers with a zero budget......and they scored zero goals (Parker & Hemed).
Its unearthing a Jamie Vardy which is the biggest skill. We have never managed it in my lifetime. Closest we got was probably Paul Williams. We've had the fools gold in Stuart Fleetwood & Chris Dickson.
In another life I will come back supporting Liverpool where Ian Rush was replaced by Robbie Fowler who was then replaced by Michael Owen.
Not every player you bring in will be a success. That’s a fact.
For every Mark Kinsella, John Robinson, Clive Mendonca, Josh Cullen you will have a Ralph Milne, Simon Francis, Neil Redfearn.
Of course, I don't think anyone will argue they should be. But you've got to weight up the good signings and the bad. That's not all down to a lack of budget, just like the early part of RD's reign, we've wasted money and I can't see how Gallen is blameless.
Nowhere on this thread have I said he’s blameless on here, however is not a miracle worker or a magician. You will get players in for whatever reason don’t work out. That’s a fact
Yes, it's stating the obvious that not everybody will work out. You did say he's not the problem, which I disagree with, he's definitely part of it, the extent to which is probably unclear (certainly not the major problem). We can talk about budgets, but the budget from Sandgaard wasn't unreasonable at all until the summer.
That’s what forums are about. We have different opinions. You have yours and I have mine.
Sandgaard , his partner and his son are the main problem in my opinion at this football club
Agreed, as I think most of us will. But this thread is specifically about Gallen, his role at the club and the job he performs (admittedly they obviously crossover).
I'm guessing that he gets undermined but is on a big enough screw to say f*** it, do it your way, and plod along.
Not every player you bring in will be a success. That’s a fact.
For every Mark Kinsella, John Robinson, Clive Mendonca, Josh Cullen you will have a Ralph Milne, Simon Francis, Neil Redfearn.
Ralph Milne was signed by a manager called Alex Ferguson and Simon Francis went on to be managed by Eddie Howe and captained Bournemouth in the Premier. Neil Redfern cost a million at the time and didn't live up to that tag.
Had opportunities last season to chat to Scouts, agents and dad's of players and it really isn't an exact science when you buy players or get players on loan. Crazy stories of gazumping, agent demands and players who shouldn't be allowed out without a carer or chaperone. One scout I met from a league 2 club refused to talk about number 6's as a defensive midfielder because to him that should be the Left sided CB !
Steve Gallen even with a budget having to get his 5th choice sometimes.
I remember him saying that there'd be (say) 3/4/5 targets and he'd negotiate initially for the top target (obviously). The moment that negotiation broke down he'd switch to target two and so on. Gallen also stated that the number one reason for a negotiation to fail was pay.
Rather than switch to targets 2/3/4 and 5 - I reckon he should've turned his negotiating skills on the owner to wheedle more money out of him. It may well be cheaper to bring in better players in the long run.
Frankly the team looks like a set of 2nd and 3rd choice players.
Looking at a recent photo of Gallen sitting next to MS and TS he did look glum, hardly surprising watching our crap football 🥅
If things are as bad as they appear behind the scenes it makes me ask, why hasn’t he resigned, and I’m not referring to his ability to sign players etc but the culture at the club or is he happy just to take the pay cheque?
Taking a pay check. Thats it. Doubt he gives a stuff quite frankly.
couldn't be more wrong
We’ll see if he looks like he’s interested come January when it’s him, MS, Anthony & Jason trying to get folks in with a couple of quid they found down the back of the sofa 🤷♀️
I also do not doubt that he is a very good negotiator.
I do, though, have my doubts over his scouting ability and knowledge of players. He's previous top recruitment/signings was all before Sandgaard came in, no surprises there. However, it was also all from the contacts he made within youth/academy football. Gallagher and Bielik, Cullen even, all because he had contacts at these London clubs. You need that in football, for sure, but you also need to have the ability to scout and spot a player, and we have not had that for years.
I also doubt that he is being paid a small sum, he was made director under previous ownership after all, the same who handed out large sums of money to Bowyer at the time too.
Taking a pay check. Thats it. Doubt he gives a stuff quite frankly.
couldn't be more wrong
We’ll see if he looks like he’s interested come January when it’s him, MS, Anthony & Jason trying to get folks in with a couple of quid they found down the back of the sofa 🤷♀️
I've been slightly critical of Gallen but in your scenario, how is that his fault? Who would be "interested" when you can't do your job?
Taking a pay check. Thats it. Doubt he gives a stuff quite frankly.
couldn't be more wrong
We’ll see if he looks like he’s interested come January when it’s him, MS, Anthony & Jason trying to get folks in with a couple of quid they found down the back of the sofa 🤷♀️
I've been slightly critical of Gallen but in your scenario, how is that his fault? Who would be "interested" when you can't do your job?
Never said it was his fault. Just that he looks to me that he’s lost interest, especially since Bowyer left. He’s still being paid to do ‘a job’ & as such should still do it to the best of your ability imho
Taking a pay check. Thats it. Doubt he gives a stuff quite frankly.
couldn't be more wrong
We’ll see if he looks like he’s interested come January when it’s him, MS, Anthony & Jason trying to get folks in with a couple of quid they found down the back of the sofa 🤷♀️
I've been slightly critical of Gallen but in your scenario, how is that his fault? Who would be "interested" when you can't do your job?
Never said it was his fault. Just that he looks to me that he’s lost interest, especially since Bowyer left. He’s still being paid to do ‘a job’ & as such should still do it to the best of your ability imho
Of course he should, but if Sandgaard says there's no money then his best is handicapped. He can't do any negotiating if we're not going to sign anyone can he.
We’re all looking for people to blame, given what’s going on at the moment.
My take on it, Steve’s been sold short, bit like the last few managers we’ve had Jes Raki Saki has been a good loan this season, but we could have done with more quality incoming in the sunnier, we all know it and have been banging on about it for the last 6 months, I’m sure his hands have been tied, and he’s as frustrated as us about it.
I don’t think we had the same level of financial security under Roland as we do now, ie Roland just let people get on with it to a certain degree, where as TS doesn’t seem to trust / delegate very well.
His halo has definitely slipped. When he and Bowyer were given a budget and told to get on with it , by Roland , they performed well. Since he has been 1 of 4 in the recruitment team , 2 of whom have got no football experience ( TS and son ) it's all gone to pot. He's still an asset in my opinion if given a budget to work with , along with the manager.
Find it very amusing that Charlton Fans rate Steve so highly. IF he was the 'messiah' or even above average at spotting talent, and hammering out great deals surely someone would of made him an offer he couldn't refuse, especially considering Martin Sandgaard is his boss (laughable situation). Makes no sense that one of the best (according to some on here would carry on working for the club in the current environment.
Me, I don't think he's as good as he likes to think he is. We've had some seriously ropey loan signings and permanents and that was before the Sandgaard era. I think he eats out on Gallagher and Cullen.
Comments
Also wasn't it billed more as he (MS) is learning from SG and others and is more of a data man? Can only take that at face value in absence of other confirmed information rather than guesswork by some.
When Gallen was asked about Driesen, and if Driesen had some kind of final say, his quite lengthy answer was generous and diplomatic, there wasn’t a hint of ire towards Driesen, indeed he was good humoured towards him and had encouraged Jacko and Bowyer to be friendly and welcoming. Any collaborating with Driesen would be another factor in the range of interpersonal skills Gallen would needfully and respectfully deploy in his role.
I think that presently Steve Gallen behaves in a way intended to try to bring people together, but he has his football knowledge and contacts such as those attributes may be. Whether Steve is a good judge of a player is one thing, but the way he conducts himself in his job is a first rate other thing.
Clearly better than being a 'hunt' but if that produces results better than at the moment, then I know which one I'd prefer.
If you look at his record since he's been here, he is responsible for the likes of Bielik, Gallagher, Cullen, Williams, Lyle Taylor, Da Silva, Innis, Rak-Sakyi, obviously these are the highlights, and many of them loans, as we haven't been spending money whilst he's been here.
The connections help with loans especially, but his record when signing permanent players with a fee, certainly doesn't seem that great. It can also be argued that he has to try and find some gems amongst the yellow sticker items from other teams, but recruitment seems to have got noticeably worse.
What is true is the current system isn't working: although I suspect part of that is because of the manager not having enough control.
He's never been a scout, had never worked a recruitment role at a club either before us (I'm pretty sure). Spoken of as a good negotiator and contacts in the game is a good thing, would retain his services if there were changes to the wider scouting/ recruitment process - a more traditional scout coming in as the head por example.
Or maybe he's completely to blame as according to some the Sandgaards never got involved and the black box is a myth or some nonsense like that.
I think the apathy set in for him a while ago.
Ralph Milne was signed by a manager called Alex Ferguson and Simon Francis went on to be managed by Eddie Howe and captained Bournemouth in the Premier.
Neil Redfern cost a million at the time and didn't live up to that tag.
Had opportunities last season to chat to Scouts, agents and dad's of players and it really isn't an exact science when you buy players or get players on loan. Crazy stories of gazumping, agent demands and players who shouldn't be allowed out without a carer or chaperone. One scout I met from a league 2 club refused to talk about number 6's as a defensive midfielder because to him that should be the Left sided CB !
Steve Gallen even with a budget having to get his 5th choice sometimes.
Now ask him to find the next Jamie Vardy from the non league and he isn't very good at all.
You need someone who can do that at the club. You need other things as well though.
Again, hard to say what is root cause, contributing factor, or coincidence. Is it the people, is it the budget, is it upper management interference, was the earlier success blind luck, or at least partly dependent on the quality of player available at the time (has anyone in League One been able to sign three players for no transfer fee as good as Taylor, Cullen, and Bielik since we did it)?
I suspect Gallen is good at what he is good at, but needs help with other things. Perhaps he, Bowyer, and Driesen complimented each other well in what they could and could not bring to the table. Perhaps our subsequent managers do not have such a good eye for who is and is not a good player for their system as Bowyer had, or perhaps Driesen had a better spreadsheet that Martin Sandgaard. Whetever the case I suspect Gallen is not one of our biggest issues right now.
If he was really all that, do you honestly think he'd still be here?
Its unearthing a Jamie Vardy which is the biggest skill. We have never managed it in my lifetime. Closest we got was probably Paul Williams. We've had the fools gold in Stuart Fleetwood & Chris Dickson.
In another life I will come back supporting Liverpool where Ian Rush was replaced by Robbie Fowler who was then replaced by Michael Owen.
Rather than switch to targets 2/3/4 and 5 - I reckon he should've turned his negotiating skills on the owner to wheedle more money out of him. It may well be cheaper to bring in better players in the long run.
Frankly the team looks like a set of 2nd and 3rd choice players.
If things are as bad as they appear behind the scenes it makes me ask, why hasn’t he resigned, and I’m not referring to his ability to sign players etc but the culture at the club or is he happy just to take the pay cheque?
Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting he is.
I also do not doubt that he is a very good negotiator.
I do, though, have my doubts over his scouting ability and knowledge of players. He's previous top recruitment/signings was all before Sandgaard came in, no surprises there. However, it was also all from the contacts he made within youth/academy football. Gallagher and Bielik, Cullen even, all because he had contacts at these London clubs. You need that in football, for sure, but you also need to have the ability to scout and spot a player, and we have not had that for years.
I also doubt that he is being paid a small sum, he was made director under previous ownership after all, the same who handed out large sums of money to Bowyer at the time too.
Just that he looks to me that he’s lost interest, especially since Bowyer left.
He’s still being paid to do ‘a job’ & as such should still do it to the best of your ability imho
My take on it, Steve’s been sold short, bit like the last few managers we’ve had Jes Raki Saki has been a good loan this season, but we could have done with more quality incoming in the sunnier, we all know it and have been banging on about it for the last 6 months, I’m sure his hands have been tied, and he’s as frustrated as us about it.
I don’t think we had the same level of financial security under Roland as we do now, ie Roland just let people get on with it to a certain degree, where as TS doesn’t seem to trust / delegate very well.
Me, I don't think he's as good as he likes to think he is. We've had some seriously ropey loan signings and permanents and that was before the Sandgaard era. I think he eats out on Gallagher and Cullen.