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ChatGPT

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    cafcpolo said:
    Crypto, Blockchain, Ai , VR there’s a whole new technology based world developing that I haven’t got a foggiest clue about. 

    Used to think of my parents as being technical dinosaurs not knowing how to work a video player or a Walkman. Suspect I’m going to be the same clueless dinosaur by 50. 
    VR is a fad - the only thing i can think of that would be made better by VR is live events. AI and machine learning will change the way we work, crypto will change the way we interact with money.
    VR is going no where. People have been saying it's a fad for close to a decade now and it's popularity is starting to take off.

    Live events are starting to happen, gaming & film are more immersive. Virtual worlds are being created that will use it.
    gaming maybe, film - no chance. The impracticalities of putting together a 360 degrees 120 min tent pole movie are mountainous - by which point you may as well have made it into a game. 
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    cafcpolo said:
    Crypto, Blockchain, Ai , VR there’s a whole new technology based world developing that I haven’t got a foggiest clue about. 

    Used to think of my parents as being technical dinosaurs not knowing how to work a video player or a Walkman. Suspect I’m going to be the same clueless dinosaur by 50. 
    VR is a fad - the only thing i can think of that would be made better by VR is live events. AI and machine learning will change the way we work, crypto will change the way we interact with money.
    VR is going no where. People have been saying it's a fad for close to a decade now and it's popularity is starting to take off.

    Live events are starting to happen, gaming & film are more immersive. Virtual worlds are being created that will use it.
    gaming maybe, film - no chance. The impracticalities of putting together a 360 degrees 120 min tent pole movie are mountainous - by which point you may as well have made it into a game. 
    Ah, I'm not talking about that. I just mean watching films in general. I've watched standard & 3D movies (no, not those kind of movies) with a VR headset on and it's miles better than just watching on the TV. Pop on some decent headphones and it's not far off like being in the cinema.

    Probably look like an absolute dick in doing so, but ho hum.
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    cafcpolo said:
    Crypto, Blockchain, Ai , VR there’s a whole new technology based world developing that I haven’t got a foggiest clue about. 

    Used to think of my parents as being technical dinosaurs not knowing how to work a video player or a Walkman. Suspect I’m going to be the same clueless dinosaur by 50. 
    VR is a fad - the only thing i can think of that would be made better by VR is live events. AI and machine learning will change the way we work, crypto will change the way we interact with money.
    VR is going no where. People have been saying it's a fad for close to a decade now and it's popularity is starting to take off.

    Live events are starting to happen, gaming & film are more immersive. Virtual worlds are being created that will use it.
    gaming maybe, film - no chance. The impracticalities of putting together a 360 degrees 120 min tent pole movie are mountainous - by which point you may as well have made it into a game. 
    First thing I ever did in VR, on a really cheap set-up (Samsung phone in a headset) was to watch a movie on a big screen. It was way better than watching it on my TV. 

    I also 'walked' around the Christ The Redeemer statue and my memory treats that experience as if I was actually there which is really strange. I remember where I walked in the same way I remember places I actually went to. 
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    VR definitely isn't for me. This time last year when we went to the showroom to sort out my new car, they proudly led me to the VR room where I could sit down and experience the car from the virtual driver's seat. It sort of did the job in terms of seeing how it was laid out, and of course how impressive the interior looks. But you couldn't "drive" it or operate any virtual controls. Then I'd had enough and decided to get "out". It didn't occur to me to take the glasses off and I started trying to manoeuvre out of a low "door" that didn't actually exist. I kept thinking I'm going to bump my head and bent down to get out. Finally I realised I can just take the glasses off and I looked round to find that I was edging away from the VR car seat almost bent double, and my wife and the sales guys were pissing themselves laughing.
    Brilliant 😂


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    Apple are rumoured to be working on a VR set that would offer full-body and head avatars so when you're on a call with another user, it would appear as if you're in a room with the actual person, rather than a cartoon version of them. Apple will probably also charge £10k for this, so chances of more than one person you know having it are non-existent. 
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    JiMMy 85 said:
    Apple are rumoured to be working on a VR set that would offer full-body and head avatars so when you're on a call with another user, it would appear as if you're in a room with the actual person, rather than a cartoon version of them. Apple will probably also charge £10k for this, so chances of more than one person you know having it are non-existent. 
    And no doubt people will probably just end up using them to call someone in the next room to see what's for dinner!
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    JiMMy 85 said:
    cafcpolo said:
    Crypto, Blockchain, Ai , VR there’s a whole new technology based world developing that I haven’t got a foggiest clue about. 

    Used to think of my parents as being technical dinosaurs not knowing how to work a video player or a Walkman. Suspect I’m going to be the same clueless dinosaur by 50. 
    VR is a fad - the only thing i can think of that would be made better by VR is live events. AI and machine learning will change the way we work, crypto will change the way we interact with money.
    VR is going no where. People have been saying it's a fad for close to a decade now and it's popularity is starting to take off.

    Live events are starting to happen, gaming & film are more immersive. Virtual worlds are being created that will use it.
    gaming maybe, film - no chance. The impracticalities of putting together a 360 degrees 120 min tent pole movie are mountainous - by which point you may as well have made it into a game. 
    First thing I ever did in VR, on a really cheap set-up (Samsung phone in a headset) was to watch a movie on a big screen. It was way better than watching it on my TV. 

    I also 'walked' around the Christ The Redeemer statue and my memory treats that experience as if I was actually there which is really strange. I remember where I walked in the same way I remember places I actually went to. 
    eh, why wouldn't i just go to the cinema instead of paying £100 for a headset? Or if i want to stay at home, if i want to quickly get some water or eat some food, i'd have to pause and take off my headset to do so. 

    I just don't see it working, AR (augmented reality) will be a lot bigger imo, especially in advertising. 
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    JiMMy 85 said:
    cafcpolo said:
    Crypto, Blockchain, Ai , VR there’s a whole new technology based world developing that I haven’t got a foggiest clue about. 

    Used to think of my parents as being technical dinosaurs not knowing how to work a video player or a Walkman. Suspect I’m going to be the same clueless dinosaur by 50. 
    VR is a fad - the only thing i can think of that would be made better by VR is live events. AI and machine learning will change the way we work, crypto will change the way we interact with money.
    VR is going no where. People have been saying it's a fad for close to a decade now and it's popularity is starting to take off.

    Live events are starting to happen, gaming & film are more immersive. Virtual worlds are being created that will use it.
    gaming maybe, film - no chance. The impracticalities of putting together a 360 degrees 120 min tent pole movie are mountainous - by which point you may as well have made it into a game. 
    First thing I ever did in VR, on a really cheap set-up (Samsung phone in a headset) was to watch a movie on a big screen. It was way better than watching it on my TV. 

    I also 'walked' around the Christ The Redeemer statue and my memory treats that experience as if I was actually there which is really strange. I remember where I walked in the same way I remember places I actually went to. 
    eh, why wouldn't i just go to the cinema instead of paying £100 for a headset? Or if i want to stay at home, if i want to quickly get some water or eat some food, i'd have to pause and take off my headset to do so. 

    I just don't see it working, AR (augmented reality) will be a lot bigger imo, especially in advertising. 
    I don't think VR and AR are going up against each other, are they? They can co-exist? AR will be huge I think, but VR will still have its place. 

    The headset doesn't cost £100 for each film so it soon becomes cost effective. Also, there are currently nine films showing at my local cinema. I could watch thousands of different films on a headset, without having to go to that shithole of an Odeon near my house, without having to deal with other people annoying me. That said, I would like to watch every movie in an Odeon Luxe if I could. 

    I appreciate it's not something you are too interested in, but it does seem to me you are dismissing it out of personal preference. There will be plenty more useful applications of VR as it becomes cheaper and more accessible. It's very early days still. 
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    Why chatbots are bound to spout bullshit

    The brilliant, peerless Tim Harford in the FT. It's a must- read but paywalled. You should at least get it as part of an allocation of articles per month for those who register for free. I don't like to "steal" complete articles but the opening paras should be enough to make you want to read more:

    ...Much has changed since 1986, when the Princeton philosopher Harry Frankfurt published an essay in an obscure journal, Raritan, titled “On Bullshit”. Yet the essay, later republished as a slim bestseller, remains unnervingly relevant. Frankfurt’s brilliant insight was that bullshit lies outside the realm of truth and lies. A liar cares about the truth and wishes to obscure it. A bullshitter is indifferent to whether his statements are true: “He just picks them out, or makes them up, to suit his purpose.” Typically for a 20th-century writer, Frankfurt described the bullshitter as “he” rather than “she” or “they”. But now it’s 2023, we may have to refer to the bullshitter as “it” — because a new generation of chatbots are poised to generate bullshit on an undreamt-of scale. Consider what happened when David Smerdon, an economist at the University of Queensland, asked the leading chatbot ChatGPT: “What is the most cited economics paper of all time?” ChatGPT said that it was “A Theory of Economic History” by Douglass North and Robert Thomas, published in the Journal of Economic History in 1969 and cited more than 30,000 times since. It added that the article is “considered a classic in the field of economic history”. A good answer, in some ways. In other ways, not a good answer, because the paper does not exist....
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    Why chatbots are bound to spout bullshit

    The brilliant, peerless Tim Harford in the FT. It's a must- read but paywalled. You should at least get it as part of an allocation of articles per month for those who register for free. I don't like to "steal" complete articles but the opening paras should be enough to make you want to read more:

    ...Much has changed since 1986, when the Princeton philosopher Harry Frankfurt published an essay in an obscure journal, Raritan, titled “On Bullshit”. Yet the essay, later republished as a slim bestseller, remains unnervingly relevant. Frankfurt’s brilliant insight was that bullshit lies outside the realm of truth and lies. A liar cares about the truth and wishes to obscure it. A bullshitter is indifferent to whether his statements are true: “He just picks them out, or makes them up, to suit his purpose.” Typically for a 20th-century writer, Frankfurt described the bullshitter as “he” rather than “she” or “they”. But now it’s 2023, we may have to refer to the bullshitter as “it” — because a new generation of chatbots are poised to generate bullshit on an undreamt-of scale. Consider what happened when David Smerdon, an economist at the University of Queensland, asked the leading chatbot ChatGPT: “What is the most cited economics paper of all time?” ChatGPT said that it was “A Theory of Economic History” by Douglass North and Robert Thomas, published in the Journal of Economic History in 1969 and cited more than 30,000 times since. It added that the article is “considered a classic in the field of economic history”. A good answer, in some ways. In other ways, not a good answer, because the paper does not exist....
    This Twitter thread looks at the example of the economic theory that wasn't.  



    But, to point at ChatGPT and say "look, it got the answer wrong!" is to misunderstand what it's for.  If you want to know what is the most cited economics paper of all time, you don't ask ChatGPT, you ask Google (and get "The most cited paper of all time in business & economics is the classical paper by Daniel Kahneman and Amos Tversky published in Econometrica").  

    Using the wrong tool often ends up with an unwanted result.  (Have you ever cut your lawn with nail clippers, or trimmed your fingernails with a hover mower?)  

    If you want an article about the most cited economics paper of all time, you can't get that from Google.  But you can use Google to find out what it is and then get ChatGPT to create an article about it.  Like this... 

    Daniel Kahneman was awarded the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences in 2002 for his contributions to the field of behavioral economics. Kahneman's work, along with his long-time collaborator Amos Tversky, revolutionized the way economists think about human decision-making by showing that people deviate from the traditional model of rationality in predictable ways.

    Kahneman's research focused on the psychological and emotional factors that influence people's decisions and showed that these factors often lead to systematic biases and errors. He developed the concept of "heuristics," or mental shortcuts, that people use to make decisions quickly and efficiently, but which can also lead to mistakes.

    Kahneman's insights have had a profound impact on economics, as well as on a wide range of other fields, including psychology, marketing, and policy-making. His work has helped to create a more nuanced understanding of human behavior and has challenged the traditional view of people as perfectly rational decision-makers.



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    VR definitely isn't for me. This time last year when we went to the showroom to sort out my new car, they proudly led me to the VR room where I could sit down and experience the car from the virtual driver's seat. It sort of did the job in terms of seeing how it was laid out, and of course how impressive the interior looks. But you couldn't "drive" it or operate any virtual controls. Then I'd had enough and decided to get "out". It didn't occur to me to take the glasses off and I started trying to manoeuvre out of a low "door" that didn't actually exist. I kept thinking I'm going to bump my head and bent down to get out. Finally I realised I can just take the glasses off and I looked round to find that I was edging away from the VR car seat almost bent double, and my wife and the sales guys were pissing themselves laughing.
    Have you seen that video of Ronnie O'Sullivan playing snooker with a VR headset? He tried to lean over the "table" and fell over
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    McBobbin said:
    VR definitely isn't for me. This time last year when we went to the showroom to sort out my new car, they proudly led me to the VR room where I could sit down and experience the car from the virtual driver's seat. It sort of did the job in terms of seeing how it was laid out, and of course how impressive the interior looks. But you couldn't "drive" it or operate any virtual controls. Then I'd had enough and decided to get "out". It didn't occur to me to take the glasses off and I started trying to manoeuvre out of a low "door" that didn't actually exist. I kept thinking I'm going to bump my head and bent down to get out. Finally I realised I can just take the glasses off and I looked round to find that I was edging away from the VR car seat almost bent double, and my wife and the sales guys were pissing themselves laughing.
    Have you seen that video of Ronnie O'Sullivan playing snooker with a VR headset? He tried to lean over the "table" and fell over
    even the GOATs do it
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    - That ChatGPT response is more of a summary of behavioral economics generally, rather than about the original Econometrica paper, judging by the paper's abstract. This may be what you are really after, but it could also be misleading.

    - For me, the main problem is that it is difficult to tell what's right and what's wrong, as the bullshit quote in an earlier post suggested. If that's not important, e.g. for getting/exploring ideas, then it could be useful.
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    @Chizz trouble is that when I started to play around with it, nobody told me what it's for. It invited me to ask it questions.  I was puzzled because I'd just watched the guy on Newsnight saying that the intro he'd just read out had been created by ChatGPT. So far I've not understood how he got it to do that.

    e.g. it may be a non-issue now, but how would I get ChatGPT to create an article about e.g. how Charlie Methven has a string of business failures to his name? If it could have done that, I'd have had a blogpost up yesterday and this afternoon be going round bragging "It was the Dossier wot dunnit"😉🤣

    Are you able to show us how you specify it to write an article? 
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    WSSWSS
    edited February 2023
    Here you go @PragueAddick, I just used it for exactly what you said:


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    edited February 2023
    @WSS Bloody hell. Gob duly smacked....thanks...

    Sportalis...never even heard of that one, will go away and look for it..

    on the other hand it also illustrates how it gets things wrong, and in a potentially damaging way. Most obviously he didn't preside over a relegation.
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    @Chizz trouble is that when I started to play around with it, nobody told me what it's for. It invited me to ask it questions.  I was puzzled because I'd just watched the guy on Newsnight saying that the intro he'd just read out had been created by ChatGPT. So far I've not understood how he got it to do that.

    e.g. it may be a non-issue now, but how would I get ChatGPT to create an article about e.g. how Charlie Methven has a string of business failures to his name? If it could have done that, I'd have had a blogpost up yesterday and this afternoon be going round bragging "It was the Dossier wot dunnit"😉🤣

    Are you able to show us how you specify it to write an article? 
    In short, you can say "give me a 200 word about Henry VIII" and you'll get exactly that, factually and grammaticality correct. Say "again" and you'll get a different 200 word essay, equally correct. 

    Or, you could write an article synopsis and say "rewrite this in 400 words". 

    The 'facts' it uses are those that were in existence up to the end of 2021. So all the Henry VIII stuff will be accurate. Anything that's subsequent to that will need a bit of help. 

    With any article, you might want to split it up into paragraphs that you get it to produce ("give me 100 words on investing in football") and ones where you give it the facts to rewrite. 

    In your example, you could ask it to write about CM's business failures and use that. Or Google them yourself and paste what you find into it and see how it rewrites it. 
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    Or... "Tell me about the Charlton Dossier"


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    edited February 2023
    @Chizz trouble is that when I started to play around with it, nobody told me what it's for. It invited me to ask it questions.  I was puzzled because I'd just watched the guy on Newsnight saying that the intro he'd just read out had been created by ChatGPT. So far I've not understood how he got it to do that.

    e.g. it may be a non-issue now, but how would I get ChatGPT to create an article about e.g. how Charlie Methven has a string of business failures to his name? If it could have done that, I'd have had a blogpost up yesterday and this afternoon be going round bragging "It was the Dossier wot dunnit"😉🤣

    Are you able to show us how you specify it to write an article? 
    People keep saying that to get the most out of it you have to ask it smart questions and iterate its responses. So if you want it to write a story you tell it to. Then you tell it to improve certain parts and add certain elements. It will keep improving and adjusting it. So while it does take some effort, that effort is far less than that required to do the task entirely without CGPT. 

    Edit - I also know a teacher who has become adept at using it for lesson plans. He says its saving him 10 hours a week now that he's got the process down. I used it for figuring out a gym routine. The first response was generic and basic, but after focusing on elements of it I ended up with a routine that I could handle. Well, theoretically. I haven't actually been to the gym for months. Also, it was good for coming up with a weekly breakfast plan! 
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    edited February 2023
    JiMMy 85 said:
    @Chizz trouble is that when I started to play around with it, nobody told me what it's for. It invited me to ask it questions.  I was puzzled because I'd just watched the guy on Newsnight saying that the intro he'd just read out had been created by ChatGPT. So far I've not understood how he got it to do that.

    e.g. it may be a non-issue now, but how would I get ChatGPT to create an article about e.g. how Charlie Methven has a string of business failures to his name? If it could have done that, I'd have had a blogpost up yesterday and this afternoon be going round bragging "It was the Dossier wot dunnit"😉🤣

    Are you able to show us how you specify it to write an article? 
    People keep saying that to get the most out of it you have to ask it smart questions and iterate its responses. So if you want it to write a story you tell it to. Then you tell it to improve certain parts and add certain elements. It will keep improving and adjusting it. So while it does take some effort, that effort is far less than that required to do the task entirely without CGPT. 

    Edit - I also know a teacher who has become adept at using it for lesson plans. He says its saving him 10 hours a week now that he's got the process down. I used it for figuring out a gym routine. The first response was generic and basic, but after focusing on elements of it I ended up with a routine that I could handle. Well, theoretically. I haven't actually been to the gym for months. Also, it was good for coming up with a weekly breakfast plan! 
    what a fantastic use case. Genuinely.
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    GPT Zero is available to uncover AI generated messages - although not 100% accurate atm.

    https://medium.datadriveninvestor.com/gpt-zero-is-designed-to-recognize-texts-written-by-ai-ab7ff4d11fd6
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    Having seen some of the impressive answers from ChatGPT I decided to have another go, but I think either I expect too much of it or, more likely, I am not using it for the right purpose.

    The replies were so generic I didn't bother pasting them in.

    Me: Charlton life is a forum for fans of Charlton athletic football club. What are the main topics of discussion?
    ChatGPT: <generic answer about topics in football fan forums>

    Me: 
    Who are the main contributors?
    ChatGPT: <generic answer about the typical football forum contributor>

    Me: 
    Apart from football, what else do they discuss?
    ChatGPT: <generic answer about typical topics apart from football>

    Me: 
    What proportion of the discussions are about football?
    ChatGPT: <generic answer but including "
    I would estimate that anywhere from 70-90% of the discussions on such a forum could be about football, depending on the particular interests and topics being discussed by the members of the community at a given time.">

    Me: 
    How long has the forum been going?
    ChatGPT: <generic ...>

    Me: 
    Which football fan forum do you know most about?
    ChatGPT: <generic ...>

    Me: 
    Which football journalist cover Charlton Athletic?
    ChatGPT: <generic ...>

    Me: 
    Is Jonathan Liew a good football journalist?
    ChatGPT: <generic including "He has won several awards and accolades for his writing, and is known for his thoughtful and well-researched analysis of the sport.">

    Me: 
    What are the main football fan forums for Fleetwood Town?
    ChatGPT: <generic answer about where to get fans opinions about a football club>

    At this point my train got to the station, thank god.

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    My head hurts!

    The Olympic Stadium one is eerily accurate although I don't recall that West Ham got two year's free rent. That's the kind of mistake that can cause trouble. The Charlton Dossier one is all over the shop, "compiled in the early 2000s". The actual Dossier website only went live in Oct 21, I don't know if that has a bearing on its accuracy. Guess it shouldnt

    But this is all really educational . I'd love to read more positive examples of how it is being used.
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    “Charlton Athletic, a team so bold and true, With a history rich and a spirit that shines through. From the Valley they rise, with a roar that echoes far, Inspiring fans both young and old, who carry their hearts in scar.

    The Addicks, they march on, with a passion that never dies, Defying the odds and standing tall, with a fire in their eyes. Their colors fly high, red and white, a symbol of hope and pride, And in every match they play, they give their all and never hide.

    From the terraces they sing, a chorus of unity and love, Their voices rising higher, with each goal that comes from above. And when the final whistle blows, and the match is won or lost, The Charlton fans remain, with a bond that's never tossed.

    So here's to Charlton Athletic, a club that stands the test of time, With a spirit that shines brighter, and a passion that will never decline. For they are more than just a team, they're a family and a home, And in their hearts, they'll always be, the pride of South London.”


    Not sure about the “with a bond that’s never tossed” line!! 

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    Just found this on Youtube - says there is 'No Copyright infringement intended'.  It is an AI cover of a John Lennon demo.  This sort of thing has opened a can of worms as artists hang on to their identities.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yvUIxj-rpY
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    This is a 15 minute podcast from this morning's Wake Up to money in which Debbie Weinstein (Google) talks AI and introduces free training. 

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0g3dx36
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    edited July 2023
    I only used it once(the 5 free questions) and it showed to me it wasn't as clever as it made out 




    Lisowski has never won a tournament and Allen has been the most dominant player this season and the shootout is 1 frame not 3
    If this is ChatGPT, it's only trained on knowledge up to 2021, so it wouldn't know about Allen being dominant this season. It does seem to make stuff up when it doesn't know the answer. Since it's essentially a text generator I don't think it can do predictions very well!
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