I think I may have posted this a while back, but I think it's worth repeating.
About 7 or 8 years ago a block of 8 flats were being built near where one of my mates lives. ( Maidstone area ). When he enquired about the cost of the flats he was told that all 8 had been bought by a Chinese man off plan. He was told that this is common practice and that a good % of new builds are being sold to foreign businessmen. I also keep seeing on the news about how many places in London are now owned by people from abroad that purely buy as an investment.
Now I have no idea what % of properties in and around London are being bought up like this but to me it's wrong. All this achieves is driving up the price of property over here and putting money in the hands of rich overseas buyers.
I would like Starmer to put something in the next Labour manifesto putting a stop to foreign ownership. Fair enough if the property is being bought to live in but not when they are being bought purely for profit.
It was fairly common for many a year Construction firms would hold exhibitions in Hong Kong for perspective buyers to buy off plan because the British housing market value held so well it was snapped up.
There has always been good & bad landlords but as personal wealth seems to have become so important to people, I suspect the number of landlords driven by profit has increased in recent years.
My son & his mate spent over a year trying to rent a property but each time they found somewhere they liked & could afford, they were gazumped by other tenants. They finally secured a place in February but only after they agreed to pay £150.00 extra each month.
Presumably the advertised rent is considered fair & is sufficient to net landlords a reasonable profit but rather than offer the property to the first suitable tenant(s) they are more than happy to sit back & wait for them to outbid each other regardless of the stress & financial pressure this causes. This smacks of profiteering.
My son & his mate pay £2,300.00 a month for a 2 bed apartment in the Elephant & Castle (nothing spectacular). They also pay for utilities & Council Tax. Their rent comes up for review in February & no doubt the additional £150.00 will count for nothing & the rent will increase further. They have very little wriggle room financially & may well have to move out.
On a different note & following on from blackpool72's earlier post, I have been involved in the collection of Local Government Revenue for most of my working life, before retiring in March. My last 6 months were spent working for an authority in Central London. There has been massive development in the area resulting in thousands of privately owned apartments & most of my time was spent updating changes in tenants.
A significant number of these properties had overseas owners. This included many from China & their tenants were almost exclusively overseas students. This means there is no Council Tax payable, as properties occupied by full time students are exempt. Therefore, the Council receives no income towards services from these properties, while the landlords simply sit back & wait for the rent to arrive via their agents. This situation exists in most Local Authorities but especially so in areas that have undergone such development over the last 10 to 15 years.
That's a ridiculous figure to have to pay. I guess the landlord will obviously take it if the demand is there.
Instinctively you'd think move a little further out and pay less.
There's clearly a number on here who are anti Landlord, by some bizarre twist some of those use the services of a Landlord. Go figure.
You mean to tell me some people on this thread aren't a home owner and ARENT homeless?! WHAT A SCOOP!
I'd suggest if you believe Landlords are greedy good for nothings you stop making use of the service they provide you. Go and buy your own place, take all the risk yourself and stop putting the responsibility at someone else's door and then moan about them.
There's clearly a number on here who are anti Landlord, by some bizarre twist some of those use the services of a Landlord. Go figure.
You mean to tell me some people on this thread aren't a home owner and ARENT homeless?! WHAT A SCOOP!
I'd suggest if you believe Landlords are greedy good for nothings you stop making use of the service they provide you. Go and buy your own place, take all the risk yourself and stop putting the responsibility at someone else's door and then moan about them.
The landlords buying up all the properties to rent is precisely why people can't just 'go out and buy your own place'. What an idiotic statement.
In case you hadn't noticed many are selling up, plenty of buying opportunities right now. There's less than 5 million private rentals in the UK and shrinking fast, hence why rents are in part increasing, supply and demand.
If people are so anti Landlords then don't use them, it's quite simple.
Seriously. What's the matter with some people? I'm 49 with no pension. So if I decided in the next couple of years to buy a 2nd property as a pension, some would be happy to see it go tits up for me.
I personally don't see a problem with buying a second property outright and then letting it out at a fair price.
I do have an issue with taking out a mortgage and expecting tenants to pay for it.
So all rental properties need to be mortgage free - that's going to work, NOT! Who decides a fair price? They tried something in Scotland that just made it worse for tenants. A fair price is market price.
You do realise a lot of businesses you buy from take out loans and by doing business with them you are paying off their mortgage loan
Right, I agree. But don’t become dewy eyed when the market turns on landlords who’ve overleveraged themselves and expect tenants to pick up the tab. Having your cake and eating it comes to mind - something for nothing.
Who is going 'dewy-eyed' about anything?. If you mean by 'overleveraged themselves' is this exactly the same as many owner/occupiers due to amongst other things, the worldwide economy? Don't be surprised when rents go up - and tenants have no choice about it and some of the reasons rents have gone up because the government has passed more costs on to the landlords.
And then the landlord passes it on to the tenant? What kind hearted people they are. If you can't afford to own a property and rent it out, sell it. It's quite simple - it's the market.
Many more would have to sell up than currently are, which would be even worse for tenants - I'm not surprised you aren't able to purchase your own place if you don't understand the fundamentals even if you must have predicted the end in the recent low interest period that so many others didn't! I know lots of people in their 20s buying a property
I don't know why you simply don't understand the rules of supply and demand apply to both tenants and landlords. If scores of landlords sell their properties then supply outreaches demand, prices go down, tenants who want to buy that otherwise couldn't afford to buy can now afford to buy - the whole social contract begins to work again. There is obviously the problem of foreign "investors" and domestic investo- i mean landlords then hoovering up the cheaper properties - but that's where maybe a fat stamp duty on a second property could be useful to then make it unprofitable for greedy landlords and investors. This extra stamp duty could then be funelled into building social housing. I know people who've purchased their own property, but they're either doing extremely well in life or have moved to areas that bring their commute up over an hour or more. As many have said on this thread, the current system is unsustainable and delaying the inevitable (prices dropping) is just roping more and more people of my age into the hellscape of negative equity in the future.
I'm getting a vibe that kentaddick is a tenant, who doesn't earn enough money to buy his own property.
lots of people are in that position - that is not humorous - it's just unfortunately true.
The thing that sticks in my craw a little as someone in that position - I can just about afford to pay the monthly mortgage for the place I live in, as a renter - and in fact that is what I am doing - but apparently i'm not trusted enough to get a mortgage - but I can pay someone elses off and nobody sees the issue.
It's a bit sick tbh - the system seems kinda set up against me.
edit for clarity - 9 years of renting thus far. Never missed a single rent payment. seen my rent rise by 25 -50 quid a month each year in that time, (until recently) for a one bed flat. After the latest rise i requested to hand in my notice and planned to go back to parents - my (decent) landlord called me (first time in nine years i've even had to speak to the guy) and asked me what he needed to do to keep me in the place.
Yeah it was clearly meant as some kind of dig, but the majority of people of my generation (>50%) are now renters, it just comes across as hopelessly out of touch.
One of the craziest threads i've seen. Rents are high because are willing to pay them, people can't get on the ladder because they spend too much time on Charlton Life, buying property is like investing in crypto. WTF? Bet there's other gems that i've missed.
It's a bit weird, I'm still yet to be told why some one would become a landlord other than accumulating wealth off the back of some one else (their tenant).
I simply don't understand how you cannot understand the situation and think that landlords selling up means rents will go down. It's what is happening now and rents are definitely not coming down. If there weren't landlords, there wouldn't be properties to rent. Most business 'accumulate wealth off the back of some one else'!
The idea is not to have rents go down, but prices of properties to go down. Heaven forbid it'll be more affordable to buy your own property than live in some one else's. If there were no longer any private landlords, then i guess the state would have to look at providing social housing, again - heaven forbid..!
Most businesses don't trade on a fundamental human need that then soaks up >50% of their customers wages. Although thinking about it in these terms sums up the attitude of landlords, it's just a business to suck up some wealth.
This is the point most people are missing. You're not trading crypto.
I've spent the last day or so being told that being a landlord has nothing to do with greed and sponging wealth off people, and now i'm told it is and it's fine because "it's a business".
Because you think it is greed but it isn't. No one is 'sponging'. You are entitled to your opinion but it doesn't make you correct. Am off to do some more work now
I'm going to ask this for what feels like the tenth time, how is it not greed? How is it not sponging when you're contributing nothing to the productivity of the country? and, something i've definitely asked before - Why do people become landlords in the first place?
Do you hold supermarkets in the same contempt?
It's pretty clear when you buy food you're paying people for their productivity. You pay the supermarket for your food and they pay their suppliers, farmers etc. There's a much wider economy around it which helps grease the wheels of the country's economy. What productivity is a landlord contributing?
The landlord is proving access to a home which you can't or don't wish to buy for the long term.
It is a reasonable that the landlord provides that 'service' and makes a profit as he carries all the risk - mortgage costs, no tenants , bad tenants, maintenance etc.
All we are really discussing is the market rate of rents which has grown hugely & to a level that (at least in London) isn't sustainable for many.
We either rely on market dynamics of supply & demand to push rents back down or some better legislation designed that makes the cost 'fairer'. Its not wrong to be a landlord per se.
I'm not saying it is, but lets be realistic, is it morally right to have an investment that is fundamental to people's living whilst that is completely out the reach of their tenants?
Change tenants for customers and the same point applies to a supermarket, they’re profiting from the ultimate fundamental things in life.
They could service all their suppliers at cost, if it wasn’t for pure greed, apparently.
I don't get the analogy. There are landlords who own a property outright so only have to pay utility bills and upkeep, whereas farmers work on the farm and have to keep buying things like livestock to keep the farms running. Furthermore people aren't paying half of their wages or more at the supermarket each week.
Because both are making a profit from providing an essential service, so surely both must be greedy? Why is ok for a supermarket to make a profit, but a landlord not?
Profit margins at a supermarket are around 1-3%. If landlords were only making that the situation would be far different.
We make about 3.5%. Can I come back in now?
That's better than we do!
“If you don’t like landlords become homeless”. Another to paste into the book of “completely unhinged stuff I’ve read on charlton life”
Except I didn't say that did I, again you like to make up stuff. I simply said if you don't like them, think they are the devil reincarnated don't use them. Take responsibility yourself, take the risks yourself, do whatever you need to do to get away from these pesky landlords. Or are you actually quite happy to pass on the risk to someone else?
I'm sure if you put your mind to it you can save a deposit and buy a property yourself,
So if I don't use landlords and can't afford to buy, what do I do? The only option is to become homeless.
I don't know your personal circumstances, but generally where there's a will there's a way.
What can you cut back on expenditure wise? Can you for now rent somewhere cheaper? Take a second job, change job, move to a different part of the country where the income multiplier is not like London/South east.
There will be lots of options if you really want to be a home owner and get away from greedy landlords.
Ok, I'll will myself shelter without becoming homeless or renting or home owning, why haven't we all thought of that?!
Sometimes I think there are people on here who live on a completely different planet.
So what about a second job etc? Work in a bar 4/5 nights a week and that alone within 2 years will give you the deposit on a property.
It may surprise you (like it does my kids) that all of us were young once and struggled from time to time to one degree or another, I really enjoyed my time living in a bedsit in Bethnal Green (when BG was a sh1te hole) eating hula hoop sandwiches but that's what saved me from being homeless. I made a lot of sacrifices to get out of there, sometimes you have just got to suck it up and do what you need to do.
If anyone is struggling you have two options, cut expenditure or increase income, the easiest way to increase income is a second job, something many of us have done in the past to keep the wolf from the door.
To say just get a second job and work 15 hours a day for 2 years in order to purchase some property is just so laughable. I really doubt when you were living in a bedsit in BG you were paying over 50% of your wages on rent
There's clearly a number on here who are anti Landlord, by some bizarre twist some of those use the services of a Landlord. Go figure.
You mean to tell me some people on this thread aren't a home owner and ARENT homeless?! WHAT A SCOOP!
I'd suggest if you believe Landlords are greedy good for nothings you stop making use of the service they provide you. Go and buy your own place, take all the risk yourself and stop putting the responsibility at someone else's door and then moan about them.
There's clearly a number on here who are anti Landlord, by some bizarre twist some of those use the services of a Landlord. Go figure.
You mean to tell me some people on this thread aren't a home owner and ARENT homeless?! WHAT A SCOOP!
I'd suggest if you believe Landlords are greedy good for nothings you stop making use of the service they provide you. Go and buy your own place, take all the risk yourself and stop putting the responsibility at someone else's door and then moan about them.
The landlords buying up all the properties to rent is precisely why people can't just 'go out and buy your own place'. What an idiotic statement.
In case you hadn't noticed many are selling up, plenty of buying opportunities right now. There's less than 5 million private rentals in the UK and shrinking fast, hence why rents are in part increasing, supply and demand.
If people are so anti Landlords then don't use them, it's quite simple.
Seriously. What's the matter with some people? I'm 49 with no pension. So if I decided in the next couple of years to buy a 2nd property as a pension, some would be happy to see it go tits up for me.
I personally don't see a problem with buying a second property outright and then letting it out at a fair price.
I do have an issue with taking out a mortgage and expecting tenants to pay for it.
So all rental properties need to be mortgage free - that's going to work, NOT! Who decides a fair price? They tried something in Scotland that just made it worse for tenants. A fair price is market price.
You do realise a lot of businesses you buy from take out loans and by doing business with them you are paying off their mortgage loan
Right, I agree. But don’t become dewy eyed when the market turns on landlords who’ve overleveraged themselves and expect tenants to pick up the tab. Having your cake and eating it comes to mind - something for nothing.
Who is going 'dewy-eyed' about anything?. If you mean by 'overleveraged themselves' is this exactly the same as many owner/occupiers due to amongst other things, the worldwide economy? Don't be surprised when rents go up - and tenants have no choice about it and some of the reasons rents have gone up because the government has passed more costs on to the landlords.
And then the landlord passes it on to the tenant? What kind hearted people they are. If you can't afford to own a property and rent it out, sell it. It's quite simple - it's the market.
Many more would have to sell up than currently are, which would be even worse for tenants - I'm not surprised you aren't able to purchase your own place if you don't understand the fundamentals even if you must have predicted the end in the recent low interest period that so many others didn't! I know lots of people in their 20s buying a property
I don't know why you simply don't understand the rules of supply and demand apply to both tenants and landlords. If scores of landlords sell their properties then supply outreaches demand, prices go down, tenants who want to buy that otherwise couldn't afford to buy can now afford to buy - the whole social contract begins to work again. There is obviously the problem of foreign "investors" and domestic investo- i mean landlords then hoovering up the cheaper properties - but that's where maybe a fat stamp duty on a second property could be useful to then make it unprofitable for greedy landlords and investors. This extra stamp duty could then be funelled into building social housing. I know people who've purchased their own property, but they're either doing extremely well in life or have moved to areas that bring their commute up over an hour or more. As many have said on this thread, the current system is unsustainable and delaying the inevitable (prices dropping) is just roping more and more people of my age into the hellscape of negative equity in the future.
I'm getting a vibe that kentaddick is a tenant, who doesn't earn enough money to buy his own property.
lots of people are in that position - that is not humorous - it's just unfortunately true.
The thing that sticks in my craw a little as someone in that position - I can just about afford to pay the monthly mortgage for the place I live in, as a renter - and in fact that is what I am doing - but apparently i'm not trusted enough to get a mortgage - but I can pay someone elses off and nobody sees the issue.
It's a bit sick tbh - the system seems kinda set up against me.
edit for clarity - 9 years of renting thus far. Never missed a single rent payment. seen my rent rise by 25 -50 quid a month each year in that time, (until recently) for a one bed flat. After the latest rise i requested to hand in my notice and planned to go back to parents - my (decent) landlord called me (first time in nine years i've even had to speak to the guy) and asked me what he needed to do to keep me in the place.
Yeah it was clearly meant as some kind of dig, but the majority of people of my generation (>50%) are now renters, it just comes across as hopelessly out of touch.
One of the craziest threads i've seen. Rents are high because are willing to pay them, people can't get on the ladder because they spend too much time on Charlton Life, buying property is like investing in crypto. WTF? Bet there's other gems that i've missed.
It's a bit weird, I'm still yet to be told why some one would become a landlord other than accumulating wealth off the back of some one else (their tenant).
I simply don't understand how you cannot understand the situation and think that landlords selling up means rents will go down. It's what is happening now and rents are definitely not coming down. If there weren't landlords, there wouldn't be properties to rent. Most business 'accumulate wealth off the back of some one else'!
The idea is not to have rents go down, but prices of properties to go down. Heaven forbid it'll be more affordable to buy your own property than live in some one else's. If there were no longer any private landlords, then i guess the state would have to look at providing social housing, again - heaven forbid..!
Most businesses don't trade on a fundamental human need that then soaks up >50% of their customers wages. Although thinking about it in these terms sums up the attitude of landlords, it's just a business to suck up some wealth.
This is the point most people are missing. You're not trading crypto.
I've spent the last day or so being told that being a landlord has nothing to do with greed and sponging wealth off people, and now i'm told it is and it's fine because "it's a business".
Because you think it is greed but it isn't. No one is 'sponging'. You are entitled to your opinion but it doesn't make you correct. Am off to do some more work now
I'm going to ask this for what feels like the tenth time, how is it not greed? How is it not sponging when you're contributing nothing to the productivity of the country? and, something i've definitely asked before - Why do people become landlords in the first place?
Do you hold supermarkets in the same contempt?
It's pretty clear when you buy food you're paying people for their productivity. You pay the supermarket for your food and they pay their suppliers, farmers etc. There's a much wider economy around it which helps grease the wheels of the country's economy. What productivity is a landlord contributing?
The landlord is proving access to a home which you can't or don't wish to buy for the long term.
It is a reasonable that the landlord provides that 'service' and makes a profit as he carries all the risk - mortgage costs, no tenants , bad tenants, maintenance etc.
All we are really discussing is the market rate of rents which has grown hugely & to a level that (at least in London) isn't sustainable for many.
We either rely on market dynamics of supply & demand to push rents back down or some better legislation designed that makes the cost 'fairer'. Its not wrong to be a landlord per se.
I'm not saying it is, but lets be realistic, is it morally right to have an investment that is fundamental to people's living whilst that is completely out the reach of their tenants?
Change tenants for customers and the same point applies to a supermarket, they’re profiting from the ultimate fundamental things in life.
They could service all their suppliers at cost, if it wasn’t for pure greed, apparently.
I don't get the analogy. There are landlords who own a property outright so only have to pay utility bills and upkeep, whereas farmers work on the farm and have to keep buying things like livestock to keep the farms running. Furthermore people aren't paying half of their wages or more at the supermarket each week.
Because both are making a profit from providing an essential service, so surely both must be greedy? Why is ok for a supermarket to make a profit, but a landlord not?
Profit margins at a supermarket are around 1-3%. If landlords were only making that the situation would be far different.
We make about 3.5%. Can I come back in now?
That's better than we do!
“If you don’t like landlords become homeless”. Another to paste into the book of “completely unhinged stuff I’ve read on charlton life”
Except I didn't say that did I, again you like to make up stuff. I simply said if you don't like them, think they are the devil reincarnated don't use them. Take responsibility yourself, take the risks yourself, do whatever you need to do to get away from these pesky landlords. Or are you actually quite happy to pass on the risk to someone else?
I'm sure if you put your mind to it you can save a deposit and buy a property yourself,
So if I don't use landlords and can't afford to buy, what do I do? The only option is to become homeless.
I don't know your personal circumstances, but generally where there's a will there's a way.
What can you cut back on expenditure wise? Can you for now rent somewhere cheaper? Take a second job, change job, move to a different part of the country where the income multiplier is not like London/South east.
There will be lots of options if you really want to be a home owner and get away from greedy landlords.
Ok, I'll will myself shelter without becoming homeless or renting or home owning, why haven't we all thought of that?!
Sometimes I think there are people on here who live on a completely different planet.
So what about a second job etc? Work in a bar 4/5 nights a week and that alone within 2 years will give you the deposit on a property.
It may surprise you (like it does my kids) that all of us were young once and struggled from time to time to one degree or another, I really enjoyed my time living in a bedsit in Bethnal Green (when BG was a sh1te hole) eating hula hoop sandwiches but that's what saved me from being homeless. I made a lot of sacrifices to get out of there, sometimes you have just got to suck it up and do what you need to do.
If anyone is struggling you have two options, cut expenditure or increase income, the easiest way to increase income is a second job, something many of us have done in the past to keep the wolf from the door.
To say just get a second job and work 15 hours a day for 2 years in order to purchase some property is just so laughable. I really doubt when you were living in a bedsit in BG you were paying over 50% of your wages on rent
Why is a second job so laughable? As well as they day/office job I worked 5 or 6 nights a week in a bar, overtime at work on a Saturday morning and weddings on a Saturday afternoon/evening. So about 90-100 hours a week in total.
My rent was about 25% of my main job, that's because I choose a bedsit in the cheapest and worst area I could find. Had I rented a flat near my office job (sidcup) it would have been about 40%. I was on just under £400 a month.
I don't get how putting your place on the market for x amount, somebody agrees to pay it, but then others come in with higher offers, so going with those higher offers would be 'common sense'. Why is it common sense to further degrade the social contract we're all obliged to live by in order to gain personally? It might be maximising whatever, or what did they use to call it at Charlton, 'sweating the assets (?)', or grabbing as much as you can, but from my personal perspective I certainly would not describe it as 'common sense'. I used to think the term 'common sense' was quite a friendly one, going alongside the gentle 'don't be daft' exhortation. However used in terms of getting as much money as you can, it seems really quite brutal.
So if you put your house on the market for 200k and someone offered 250k to ensure a quick sale, you’d refuse and let them have it for 200k?
I don't get how putting your place on the market for x amount, somebody agrees to pay it, but then others come in with higher offers, so going with those higher offers would be 'common sense'. Why is it common sense to further degrade the social contract we're all obliged to live by in order to gain personally? It might be maximising whatever, or what did they use to call it at Charlton, 'sweating the assets (?)', or grabbing as much as you can, but from my personal perspective I certainly would not describe it as 'common sense'. I used to think the term 'common sense' was quite a friendly one, going alongside the gentle 'don't be daft' exhortation. However used in terms of getting as much money as you can, it seems really quite brutal.
So if you put your house on the market for 200k and someone offered 250k to ensure a quick sale, you’d refuse and let them have it for 200k?
Behave.
In that situation my decision wouldn't be a common sense one to take the higher offer, such a decision would be more like rapaciousness.
I don't get how putting your place on the market for x amount, somebody agrees to pay it, but then others come in with higher offers, so going with those higher offers would be 'common sense'. Why is it common sense to further degrade the social contract we're all obliged to live by in order to gain personally? It might be maximising whatever, or what did they use to call it at Charlton, 'sweating the assets (?)', or grabbing as much as you can, but from my personal perspective I certainly would not describe it as 'common sense'. I used to think the term 'common sense' was quite a friendly one, going alongside the gentle 'don't be daft' exhortation. However used in terms of getting as much money as you can, it seems really quite brutal.
So if you put your house on the market for 200k and someone offered 250k to ensure a quick sale, you’d refuse and let them have it for 200k?
Behave.
In that situation my decision wouldn't be a common sense one to take the higher offer, such a decision would be more like rapaciousness.
There's clearly a number on here who are anti Landlord, by some bizarre twist some of those use the services of a Landlord. Go figure.
You mean to tell me some people on this thread aren't a home owner and ARENT homeless?! WHAT A SCOOP!
I'd suggest if you believe Landlords are greedy good for nothings you stop making use of the service they provide you. Go and buy your own place, take all the risk yourself and stop putting the responsibility at someone else's door and then moan about them.
There's clearly a number on here who are anti Landlord, by some bizarre twist some of those use the services of a Landlord. Go figure.
You mean to tell me some people on this thread aren't a home owner and ARENT homeless?! WHAT A SCOOP!
I'd suggest if you believe Landlords are greedy good for nothings you stop making use of the service they provide you. Go and buy your own place, take all the risk yourself and stop putting the responsibility at someone else's door and then moan about them.
The landlords buying up all the properties to rent is precisely why people can't just 'go out and buy your own place'. What an idiotic statement.
In case you hadn't noticed many are selling up, plenty of buying opportunities right now. There's less than 5 million private rentals in the UK and shrinking fast, hence why rents are in part increasing, supply and demand.
If people are so anti Landlords then don't use them, it's quite simple.
Seriously. What's the matter with some people? I'm 49 with no pension. So if I decided in the next couple of years to buy a 2nd property as a pension, some would be happy to see it go tits up for me.
I personally don't see a problem with buying a second property outright and then letting it out at a fair price.
I do have an issue with taking out a mortgage and expecting tenants to pay for it.
So all rental properties need to be mortgage free - that's going to work, NOT! Who decides a fair price? They tried something in Scotland that just made it worse for tenants. A fair price is market price.
You do realise a lot of businesses you buy from take out loans and by doing business with them you are paying off their mortgage loan
Right, I agree. But don’t become dewy eyed when the market turns on landlords who’ve overleveraged themselves and expect tenants to pick up the tab. Having your cake and eating it comes to mind - something for nothing.
Who is going 'dewy-eyed' about anything?. If you mean by 'overleveraged themselves' is this exactly the same as many owner/occupiers due to amongst other things, the worldwide economy? Don't be surprised when rents go up - and tenants have no choice about it and some of the reasons rents have gone up because the government has passed more costs on to the landlords.
And then the landlord passes it on to the tenant? What kind hearted people they are. If you can't afford to own a property and rent it out, sell it. It's quite simple - it's the market.
Many more would have to sell up than currently are, which would be even worse for tenants - I'm not surprised you aren't able to purchase your own place if you don't understand the fundamentals even if you must have predicted the end in the recent low interest period that so many others didn't! I know lots of people in their 20s buying a property
I don't know why you simply don't understand the rules of supply and demand apply to both tenants and landlords. If scores of landlords sell their properties then supply outreaches demand, prices go down, tenants who want to buy that otherwise couldn't afford to buy can now afford to buy - the whole social contract begins to work again. There is obviously the problem of foreign "investors" and domestic investo- i mean landlords then hoovering up the cheaper properties - but that's where maybe a fat stamp duty on a second property could be useful to then make it unprofitable for greedy landlords and investors. This extra stamp duty could then be funelled into building social housing. I know people who've purchased their own property, but they're either doing extremely well in life or have moved to areas that bring their commute up over an hour or more. As many have said on this thread, the current system is unsustainable and delaying the inevitable (prices dropping) is just roping more and more people of my age into the hellscape of negative equity in the future.
I'm getting a vibe that kentaddick is a tenant, who doesn't earn enough money to buy his own property.
lots of people are in that position - that is not humorous - it's just unfortunately true.
The thing that sticks in my craw a little as someone in that position - I can just about afford to pay the monthly mortgage for the place I live in, as a renter - and in fact that is what I am doing - but apparently i'm not trusted enough to get a mortgage - but I can pay someone elses off and nobody sees the issue.
It's a bit sick tbh - the system seems kinda set up against me.
edit for clarity - 9 years of renting thus far. Never missed a single rent payment. seen my rent rise by 25 -50 quid a month each year in that time, (until recently) for a one bed flat. After the latest rise i requested to hand in my notice and planned to go back to parents - my (decent) landlord called me (first time in nine years i've even had to speak to the guy) and asked me what he needed to do to keep me in the place.
Yeah it was clearly meant as some kind of dig, but the majority of people of my generation (>50%) are now renters, it just comes across as hopelessly out of touch.
One of the craziest threads i've seen. Rents are high because are willing to pay them, people can't get on the ladder because they spend too much time on Charlton Life, buying property is like investing in crypto. WTF? Bet there's other gems that i've missed.
It's a bit weird, I'm still yet to be told why some one would become a landlord other than accumulating wealth off the back of some one else (their tenant).
I simply don't understand how you cannot understand the situation and think that landlords selling up means rents will go down. It's what is happening now and rents are definitely not coming down. If there weren't landlords, there wouldn't be properties to rent. Most business 'accumulate wealth off the back of some one else'!
The idea is not to have rents go down, but prices of properties to go down. Heaven forbid it'll be more affordable to buy your own property than live in some one else's. If there were no longer any private landlords, then i guess the state would have to look at providing social housing, again - heaven forbid..!
Most businesses don't trade on a fundamental human need that then soaks up >50% of their customers wages. Although thinking about it in these terms sums up the attitude of landlords, it's just a business to suck up some wealth.
This is the point most people are missing. You're not trading crypto.
I've spent the last day or so being told that being a landlord has nothing to do with greed and sponging wealth off people, and now i'm told it is and it's fine because "it's a business".
Because you think it is greed but it isn't. No one is 'sponging'. You are entitled to your opinion but it doesn't make you correct. Am off to do some more work now
I'm going to ask this for what feels like the tenth time, how is it not greed? How is it not sponging when you're contributing nothing to the productivity of the country? and, something i've definitely asked before - Why do people become landlords in the first place?
Do you hold supermarkets in the same contempt?
It's pretty clear when you buy food you're paying people for their productivity. You pay the supermarket for your food and they pay their suppliers, farmers etc. There's a much wider economy around it which helps grease the wheels of the country's economy. What productivity is a landlord contributing?
The landlord is proving access to a home which you can't or don't wish to buy for the long term.
It is a reasonable that the landlord provides that 'service' and makes a profit as he carries all the risk - mortgage costs, no tenants , bad tenants, maintenance etc.
All we are really discussing is the market rate of rents which has grown hugely & to a level that (at least in London) isn't sustainable for many.
We either rely on market dynamics of supply & demand to push rents back down or some better legislation designed that makes the cost 'fairer'. Its not wrong to be a landlord per se.
I'm not saying it is, but lets be realistic, is it morally right to have an investment that is fundamental to people's living whilst that is completely out the reach of their tenants?
Change tenants for customers and the same point applies to a supermarket, they’re profiting from the ultimate fundamental things in life.
They could service all their suppliers at cost, if it wasn’t for pure greed, apparently.
I don't get the analogy. There are landlords who own a property outright so only have to pay utility bills and upkeep, whereas farmers work on the farm and have to keep buying things like livestock to keep the farms running. Furthermore people aren't paying half of their wages or more at the supermarket each week.
Because both are making a profit from providing an essential service, so surely both must be greedy? Why is ok for a supermarket to make a profit, but a landlord not?
Profit margins at a supermarket are around 1-3%. If landlords were only making that the situation would be far different.
We make about 3.5%. Can I come back in now?
That's better than we do!
“If you don’t like landlords become homeless”. Another to paste into the book of “completely unhinged stuff I’ve read on charlton life”
Except I didn't say that did I, again you like to make up stuff. I simply said if you don't like them, think they are the devil reincarnated don't use them. Take responsibility yourself, take the risks yourself, do whatever you need to do to get away from these pesky landlords. Or are you actually quite happy to pass on the risk to someone else?
I'm sure if you put your mind to it you can save a deposit and buy a property yourself,
So if I don't use landlords and can't afford to buy, what do I do? The only option is to become homeless.
I don't know your personal circumstances, but generally where there's a will there's a way.
What can you cut back on expenditure wise? Can you for now rent somewhere cheaper? Take a second job, change job, move to a different part of the country where the income multiplier is not like London/South east.
There will be lots of options if you really want to be a home owner and get away from greedy landlords.
Ok, I'll will myself shelter without becoming homeless or renting or home owning, why haven't we all thought of that?!
Sometimes I think there are people on here who live on a completely different planet.
So what about a second job etc? Work in a bar 4/5 nights a week and that alone within 2 years will give you the deposit on a property.
It may surprise you (like it does my kids) that all of us were young once and struggled from time to time to one degree or another, I really enjoyed my time living in a bedsit in Bethnal Green (when BG was a sh1te hole) eating hula hoop sandwiches but that's what saved me from being homeless. I made a lot of sacrifices to get out of there, sometimes you have just got to suck it up and do what you need to do.
If anyone is struggling you have two options, cut expenditure or increase income, the easiest way to increase income is a second job, something many of us have done in the past to keep the wolf from the door.
To say just get a second job and work 15 hours a day for 2 years in order to purchase some property is just so laughable. I really doubt when you were living in a bedsit in BG you were paying over 50% of your wages on rent
Why is a second job so laughable? As well as they day/office job I worked 5 or 6 nights a week in a bar, overtime at work on a Saturday morning and weddings on a Saturday afternoon/evening. So about 90-100 hours a week in total.
My rent was about 25% of my main job, that's because I choose a bedsit in the cheapest and worst area I could find. Had I rented a flat near my office job (sidcup) it would have been about 40%. I was on just under £400 a month.
This is the shit attitude (IMHO) ingrained into people. If you want to do that fair play to you but instead of that being the only option why can t we have shitloads more affordable rents? Better social housing, rent caps etc etc. This brain washing where its always the people with nothings fault.
Its ALL and mean ALL that horrible witches fault.
Imagine that some people don't want to be upwardly mobile, would be quite happy with a fair wage for a fair days work and a fair rent amount and live a great life. But oh no we have to be Gordon Gekko. My god i hate capitalism and moreover Tories.
if i hear "hard working families" one more time - sound bit bullshit.
Seriously. What's the matter with some people? I'm 49 with no pension. So if I decided in the next couple of years to buy a 2nd property as a pension, some would be happy to see it go tits up for me.
I personally don't see a problem with buying a second property outright and then letting it out at a fair price.
I do have an issue with taking out a mortgage and expecting tenants to pay for it.
So all rental properties need to be mortgage free - that's going to work, NOT! Who decides a fair price? They tried something in Scotland that just made it worse for tenants. A fair price is market price.
You do realise a lot of businesses you buy from take out loans and by doing business with them you are paying off their mortgage loan
Right, I agree. But don’t become dewy eyed when the market turns on landlords who’ve overleveraged themselves and expect tenants to pick up the tab. Having your cake and eating it comes to mind - something for nothing.
Who is going 'dewy-eyed' about anything?. If you mean by 'overleveraged themselves' is this exactly the same as many owner/occupiers due to amongst other things, the worldwide economy? Don't be surprised when rents go up - and tenants have no choice about it and some of the reasons rents have gone up because the government has passed more costs on to the landlords.
And then the landlord passes it on to the tenant? What kind hearted people they are. If you can't afford to own a property and rent it out, sell it. It's quite simple - it's the market.
Many more would have to sell up than currently are, which would be even worse for tenants - I'm not surprised you aren't able to purchase your own place if you don't understand the fundamentals even if you must have predicted the end in the recent low interest period that so many others didn't! I know lots of people in their 20s buying a property
I don't know why you simply don't understand the rules of supply and demand apply to both tenants and landlords. If scores of landlords sell their properties then supply outreaches demand, prices go down, tenants who want to buy that otherwise couldn't afford to buy can now afford to buy - the whole social contract begins to work again. There is obviously the problem of foreign "investors" and domestic investo- i mean landlords then hoovering up the cheaper properties - but that's where maybe a fat stamp duty on a second property could be useful to then make it unprofitable for greedy landlords and investors. This extra stamp duty could then be funelled into building social housing. I know people who've purchased their own property, but they're either doing extremely well in life or have moved to areas that bring their commute up over an hour or more. As many have said on this thread, the current system is unsustainable and delaying the inevitable (prices dropping) is just roping more and more people of my age into the hellscape of negative equity in the future.
I'm getting a vibe that kentaddick is a tenant, who doesn't earn enough money to buy his own property.
lots of people are in that position - that is not humorous - it's just unfortunately true.
The thing that sticks in my craw a little as someone in that position - I can just about afford to pay the monthly mortgage for the place I live in, as a renter - and in fact that is what I am doing - but apparently i'm not trusted enough to get a mortgage - but I can pay someone elses off and nobody sees the issue.
It's a bit sick tbh - the system seems kinda set up against me.
edit for clarity - 9 years of renting thus far. Never missed a single rent payment. seen my rent rise by 25 -50 quid a month each year in that time, (until recently) for a one bed flat. After the latest rise i requested to hand in my notice and planned to go back to parents - my (decent) landlord called me (first time in nine years i've even had to speak to the guy) and asked me what he needed to do to keep me in the place.
Yeah it was clearly meant as some kind of dig, but the majority of people of my generation (>50%) are now renters, it just comes across as hopelessly out of touch.
One of the craziest threads i've seen. Rents are high because are willing to pay them, people can't get on the ladder because they spend too much time on Charlton Life, buying property is like investing in crypto. WTF? Bet there's other gems that i've missed.
It's a bit weird, I'm still yet to be told why some one would become a landlord other than accumulating wealth off the back of some one else (their tenant).
I simply don't understand how you cannot understand the situation and think that landlords selling up means rents will go down. It's what is happening now and rents are definitely not coming down. If there weren't landlords, there wouldn't be properties to rent. Most business 'accumulate wealth off the back of some one else'!
The idea is not to have rents go down, but prices of properties to go down. Heaven forbid it'll be more affordable to buy your own property than live in some one else's. If there were no longer any private landlords, then i guess the state would have to look at providing social housing, again - heaven forbid..!
Most businesses don't trade on a fundamental human need that then soaks up >50% of their customers wages. Although thinking about it in these terms sums up the attitude of landlords, it's just a business to suck up some wealth.
This is the point most people are missing. You're not trading crypto.
I've spent the last day or so being told that being a landlord has nothing to do with greed and sponging wealth off people, and now i'm told it is and it's fine because "it's a business".
Because you think it is greed but it isn't. No one is 'sponging'. You are entitled to your opinion but it doesn't make you correct. Am off to do some more work now
I'm going to ask this for what feels like the tenth time, how is it not greed? How is it not sponging when you're contributing nothing to the productivity of the country? and, something i've definitely asked before - Why do people become landlords in the first place?
Do you hold supermarkets in the same contempt?
It's pretty clear when you buy food you're paying people for their productivity. You pay the supermarket for your food and they pay their suppliers, farmers etc. There's a much wider economy around it which helps grease the wheels of the country's economy. What productivity is a landlord contributing?
The landlord is proving access to a home which you can't or don't wish to buy for the long term.
It is a reasonable that the landlord provides that 'service' and makes a profit as he carries all the risk - mortgage costs, no tenants , bad tenants, maintenance etc.
All we are really discussing is the market rate of rents which has grown hugely & to a level that (at least in London) isn't sustainable for many.
We either rely on market dynamics of supply & demand to push rents back down or some better legislation designed that makes the cost 'fairer'. Its not wrong to be a landlord per se.
I'm not saying it is, but lets be realistic, is it morally right to have an investment that is fundamental to people's living whilst that is completely out the reach of their tenants?
Change tenants for customers and the same point applies to a supermarket, they’re profiting from the ultimate fundamental things in life.
They could service all their suppliers at cost, if it wasn’t for pure greed, apparently.
I don't get the analogy. There are landlords who own a property outright so only have to pay utility bills and upkeep, whereas farmers work on the farm and have to keep buying things like livestock to keep the farms running. Furthermore people aren't paying half of their wages or more at the supermarket each week.
Because both are making a profit from providing an essential service, so surely both must be greedy? Why is ok for a supermarket to make a profit, but a landlord not?
Profit margins at a supermarket are around 1-3%. If landlords were only making that the situation would be far different.
We make about 3.5%. Can I come back in now?
I take it the 3.5% would be against the loan if you have one? Assuming that and also assuming the property is in good order and in a saleable area, would the property not also appreciate in value at market rates? Assuming a fair bit there I know but that's basically how so many have become landlords with multiple properties, (occasional Homes Under the Hammer viewer) . Its not much of risk if you can spread that risk about in a multiple property portfolio. That increase in property value is or was a key driver that has reduced the available properties to first time buyers and the less well off. Not having a dig at you but that is a win win for landlords especially in the south east and for the renters the opposite applies.
No loan CK, we brought the one in SE London outright. 2% drop in price since we purchased. We have this one and a half share of a property near Maidstone with the B-in-L. The price of that has gone up plenty but we have had it about 7 years.
We let at about 30% under the going rent rate for the areas, as we brought both with sitting tenants who were on low rents, and agreed to keep them low. We prefer happy tenants who look after the places hope that we are not greedy.
There's clearly a number on here who are anti Landlord, by some bizarre twist some of those use the services of a Landlord. Go figure.
You mean to tell me some people on this thread aren't a home owner and ARENT homeless?! WHAT A SCOOP!
I'd suggest if you believe Landlords are greedy good for nothings you stop making use of the service they provide you. Go and buy your own place, take all the risk yourself and stop putting the responsibility at someone else's door and then moan about them.
There's clearly a number on here who are anti Landlord, by some bizarre twist some of those use the services of a Landlord. Go figure.
You mean to tell me some people on this thread aren't a home owner and ARENT homeless?! WHAT A SCOOP!
I'd suggest if you believe Landlords are greedy good for nothings you stop making use of the service they provide you. Go and buy your own place, take all the risk yourself and stop putting the responsibility at someone else's door and then moan about them.
The landlords buying up all the properties to rent is precisely why people can't just 'go out and buy your own place'. What an idiotic statement.
In case you hadn't noticed many are selling up, plenty of buying opportunities right now. There's less than 5 million private rentals in the UK and shrinking fast, hence why rents are in part increasing, supply and demand.
If people are so anti Landlords then don't use them, it's quite simple.
Seriously. What's the matter with some people? I'm 49 with no pension. So if I decided in the next couple of years to buy a 2nd property as a pension, some would be happy to see it go tits up for me.
I personally don't see a problem with buying a second property outright and then letting it out at a fair price.
I do have an issue with taking out a mortgage and expecting tenants to pay for it.
So all rental properties need to be mortgage free - that's going to work, NOT! Who decides a fair price? They tried something in Scotland that just made it worse for tenants. A fair price is market price.
You do realise a lot of businesses you buy from take out loans and by doing business with them you are paying off their mortgage loan
Right, I agree. But don’t become dewy eyed when the market turns on landlords who’ve overleveraged themselves and expect tenants to pick up the tab. Having your cake and eating it comes to mind - something for nothing.
Who is going 'dewy-eyed' about anything?. If you mean by 'overleveraged themselves' is this exactly the same as many owner/occupiers due to amongst other things, the worldwide economy? Don't be surprised when rents go up - and tenants have no choice about it and some of the reasons rents have gone up because the government has passed more costs on to the landlords.
And then the landlord passes it on to the tenant? What kind hearted people they are. If you can't afford to own a property and rent it out, sell it. It's quite simple - it's the market.
Many more would have to sell up than currently are, which would be even worse for tenants - I'm not surprised you aren't able to purchase your own place if you don't understand the fundamentals even if you must have predicted the end in the recent low interest period that so many others didn't! I know lots of people in their 20s buying a property
I don't know why you simply don't understand the rules of supply and demand apply to both tenants and landlords. If scores of landlords sell their properties then supply outreaches demand, prices go down, tenants who want to buy that otherwise couldn't afford to buy can now afford to buy - the whole social contract begins to work again. There is obviously the problem of foreign "investors" and domestic investo- i mean landlords then hoovering up the cheaper properties - but that's where maybe a fat stamp duty on a second property could be useful to then make it unprofitable for greedy landlords and investors. This extra stamp duty could then be funelled into building social housing. I know people who've purchased their own property, but they're either doing extremely well in life or have moved to areas that bring their commute up over an hour or more. As many have said on this thread, the current system is unsustainable and delaying the inevitable (prices dropping) is just roping more and more people of my age into the hellscape of negative equity in the future.
I'm getting a vibe that kentaddick is a tenant, who doesn't earn enough money to buy his own property.
lots of people are in that position - that is not humorous - it's just unfortunately true.
The thing that sticks in my craw a little as someone in that position - I can just about afford to pay the monthly mortgage for the place I live in, as a renter - and in fact that is what I am doing - but apparently i'm not trusted enough to get a mortgage - but I can pay someone elses off and nobody sees the issue.
It's a bit sick tbh - the system seems kinda set up against me.
edit for clarity - 9 years of renting thus far. Never missed a single rent payment. seen my rent rise by 25 -50 quid a month each year in that time, (until recently) for a one bed flat. After the latest rise i requested to hand in my notice and planned to go back to parents - my (decent) landlord called me (first time in nine years i've even had to speak to the guy) and asked me what he needed to do to keep me in the place.
Yeah it was clearly meant as some kind of dig, but the majority of people of my generation (>50%) are now renters, it just comes across as hopelessly out of touch.
One of the craziest threads i've seen. Rents are high because are willing to pay them, people can't get on the ladder because they spend too much time on Charlton Life, buying property is like investing in crypto. WTF? Bet there's other gems that i've missed.
It's a bit weird, I'm still yet to be told why some one would become a landlord other than accumulating wealth off the back of some one else (their tenant).
I simply don't understand how you cannot understand the situation and think that landlords selling up means rents will go down. It's what is happening now and rents are definitely not coming down. If there weren't landlords, there wouldn't be properties to rent. Most business 'accumulate wealth off the back of some one else'!
The idea is not to have rents go down, but prices of properties to go down. Heaven forbid it'll be more affordable to buy your own property than live in some one else's. If there were no longer any private landlords, then i guess the state would have to look at providing social housing, again - heaven forbid..!
Most businesses don't trade on a fundamental human need that then soaks up >50% of their customers wages. Although thinking about it in these terms sums up the attitude of landlords, it's just a business to suck up some wealth.
This is the point most people are missing. You're not trading crypto.
I've spent the last day or so being told that being a landlord has nothing to do with greed and sponging wealth off people, and now i'm told it is and it's fine because "it's a business".
Because you think it is greed but it isn't. No one is 'sponging'. You are entitled to your opinion but it doesn't make you correct. Am off to do some more work now
I'm going to ask this for what feels like the tenth time, how is it not greed? How is it not sponging when you're contributing nothing to the productivity of the country? and, something i've definitely asked before - Why do people become landlords in the first place?
Do you hold supermarkets in the same contempt?
It's pretty clear when you buy food you're paying people for their productivity. You pay the supermarket for your food and they pay their suppliers, farmers etc. There's a much wider economy around it which helps grease the wheels of the country's economy. What productivity is a landlord contributing?
The landlord is proving access to a home which you can't or don't wish to buy for the long term.
It is a reasonable that the landlord provides that 'service' and makes a profit as he carries all the risk - mortgage costs, no tenants , bad tenants, maintenance etc.
All we are really discussing is the market rate of rents which has grown hugely & to a level that (at least in London) isn't sustainable for many.
We either rely on market dynamics of supply & demand to push rents back down or some better legislation designed that makes the cost 'fairer'. Its not wrong to be a landlord per se.
I'm not saying it is, but lets be realistic, is it morally right to have an investment that is fundamental to people's living whilst that is completely out the reach of their tenants?
Change tenants for customers and the same point applies to a supermarket, they’re profiting from the ultimate fundamental things in life.
They could service all their suppliers at cost, if it wasn’t for pure greed, apparently.
I don't get the analogy. There are landlords who own a property outright so only have to pay utility bills and upkeep, whereas farmers work on the farm and have to keep buying things like livestock to keep the farms running. Furthermore people aren't paying half of their wages or more at the supermarket each week.
Because both are making a profit from providing an essential service, so surely both must be greedy? Why is ok for a supermarket to make a profit, but a landlord not?
Profit margins at a supermarket are around 1-3%. If landlords were only making that the situation would be far different.
We make about 3.5%. Can I come back in now?
That's better than we do!
“If you don’t like landlords become homeless”. Another to paste into the book of “completely unhinged stuff I’ve read on charlton life”
Except I didn't say that did I, again you like to make up stuff. I simply said if you don't like them, think they are the devil reincarnated don't use them. Take responsibility yourself, take the risks yourself, do whatever you need to do to get away from these pesky landlords. Or are you actually quite happy to pass on the risk to someone else?
I'm sure if you put your mind to it you can save a deposit and buy a property yourself,
So if I don't use landlords and can't afford to buy, what do I do? The only option is to become homeless.
I don't know your personal circumstances, but generally where there's a will there's a way.
What can you cut back on expenditure wise? Can you for now rent somewhere cheaper? Take a second job, change job, move to a different part of the country where the income multiplier is not like London/South east.
There will be lots of options if you really want to be a home owner and get away from greedy landlords.
Ok, I'll will myself shelter without becoming homeless or renting or home owning, why haven't we all thought of that?!
Sometimes I think there are people on here who live on a completely different planet.
So what about a second job etc? Work in a bar 4/5 nights a week and that alone within 2 years will give you the deposit on a property.
It may surprise you (like it does my kids) that all of us were young once and struggled from time to time to one degree or another, I really enjoyed my time living in a bedsit in Bethnal Green (when BG was a sh1te hole) eating hula hoop sandwiches but that's what saved me from being homeless. I made a lot of sacrifices to get out of there, sometimes you have just got to suck it up and do what you need to do.
If anyone is struggling you have two options, cut expenditure or increase income, the easiest way to increase income is a second job, something many of us have done in the past to keep the wolf from the door.
To say just get a second job and work 15 hours a day for 2 years in order to purchase some property is just so laughable. I really doubt when you were living in a bedsit in BG you were paying over 50% of your wages on rent
Why is a second job so laughable? As well as they day/office job I worked 5 or 6 nights a week in a bar, overtime at work on a Saturday morning and weddings on a Saturday afternoon/evening. So about 90-100 hours a week in total.
My rent was about 25% of my main job, that's because I choose a bedsit in the cheapest and worst area I could find. Had I rented a flat near my office job (sidcup) it would have been about 40%. I was on just under £400 a month.
FTR, I went on Zoopla and the cheapest studio for rent in Bethnal Green is £1,350 a month. Times have changed.
Private landlords invest in BTL properties to make a return on that investment - I haven't read the whole thread word for word but has anyone said otherwise? They are providing a service for a profit, as is the case with any 'for profit' organisation providing goods or services. They are not responsible for ensuring all citizens are able to afford housing, whether that be rent or purchase (and it is not an inalienable right to own property - I own my own property and the land it is built on and the surrounding curtilage is freehold, but that's how things work). It is the responsibility of government, with social housing subsidised through general taxation if need be and pressure on property developers through compulsory purchase of land banks so as to build social housing.
If BTL landlords are not able to make a profit from their activities then they won't do it - they will sell up and get 6.2% yield with a NS&I fix. That's the world we live in and if it's gone tits up then blame the right people - successive governments.
Just out of interest, if you bought £10k worth of crypto at the right time and were able to sell it for £100k - would you give most of it away as excess profits. Do you/have you invested in crypto (as you seem to encourage others to do so) to in some way give back to society? In fact what does it add to the social contract that may have existed once somewhere on this planet but not for a very long time. Or do you see it as a valid return on investment (or greed in your language).
You, as are very many, are in the unenviable position of not being able to buy a property or rent at an affordable level - I absolutely agree that needs to change. But it is not private landlords that should shoulder the blame. (I am not a private landlord btw).
£2,300 for a 2 bed flat in Elephant and Castle??!! That’s fucking insane, apart from anything else, the place is a toilet. Is that the going rate for a place in London?
We nearly bought a BTL a few years ago, mainly for when our daughter grew up but decided against it in the end.
Speaking as someone had a friend living on the now gone Heygate Estate back in the 80's, I can say that the place has improved, although the Walworth Road is still a dump.
The block my son lives in was built in 2007 & most of the tenants are young professionals like him & that seems to be the case in the surrounding area.
Rents will obviously vary depending on size & location of the property but that was what he needed to pay to live in a half decent 2 bed apartment. He would of had to pay a lot more if he'd wanted something more high end.
The rents in many areas of London are ridiculous, which is why he ended up in E & C !
Currently in a cost of living crisis. Still a lot of people out there though with a lot of money. Would a house price crash make it much easier for those that rent to be able to buy? You've got parents out there selling their houses , downsizing and giving the kids tens of thousands each to buy a place.
The most surprising thing about this thread is that someone whom has been a leading exponent on here of investing in crypto for at least 6years, and talks so confidently about knowing how that market will move is living in rented accommodation and does not have a deposit for a house.
From your posts on the crypto thread I assumed you had a pretty hefty wedge invested and would be buying a house (or maybe even a portfolio of them) with cash.
There's clearly a number on here who are anti Landlord, by some bizarre twist some of those use the services of a Landlord. Go figure.
You mean to tell me some people on this thread aren't a home owner and ARENT homeless?! WHAT A SCOOP!
I'd suggest if you believe Landlords are greedy good for nothings you stop making use of the service they provide you. Go and buy your own place, take all the risk yourself and stop putting the responsibility at someone else's door and then moan about them.
There's clearly a number on here who are anti Landlord, by some bizarre twist some of those use the services of a Landlord. Go figure.
You mean to tell me some people on this thread aren't a home owner and ARENT homeless?! WHAT A SCOOP!
I'd suggest if you believe Landlords are greedy good for nothings you stop making use of the service they provide you. Go and buy your own place, take all the risk yourself and stop putting the responsibility at someone else's door and then moan about them.
The landlords buying up all the properties to rent is precisely why people can't just 'go out and buy your own place'. What an idiotic statement.
In case you hadn't noticed many are selling up, plenty of buying opportunities right now. There's less than 5 million private rentals in the UK and shrinking fast, hence why rents are in part increasing, supply and demand.
If people are so anti Landlords then don't use them, it's quite simple.
Seriously. What's the matter with some people? I'm 49 with no pension. So if I decided in the next couple of years to buy a 2nd property as a pension, some would be happy to see it go tits up for me.
I personally don't see a problem with buying a second property outright and then letting it out at a fair price.
I do have an issue with taking out a mortgage and expecting tenants to pay for it.
So all rental properties need to be mortgage free - that's going to work, NOT! Who decides a fair price? They tried something in Scotland that just made it worse for tenants. A fair price is market price.
You do realise a lot of businesses you buy from take out loans and by doing business with them you are paying off their mortgage loan
Right, I agree. But don’t become dewy eyed when the market turns on landlords who’ve overleveraged themselves and expect tenants to pick up the tab. Having your cake and eating it comes to mind - something for nothing.
Who is going 'dewy-eyed' about anything?. If you mean by 'overleveraged themselves' is this exactly the same as many owner/occupiers due to amongst other things, the worldwide economy? Don't be surprised when rents go up - and tenants have no choice about it and some of the reasons rents have gone up because the government has passed more costs on to the landlords.
And then the landlord passes it on to the tenant? What kind hearted people they are. If you can't afford to own a property and rent it out, sell it. It's quite simple - it's the market.
Many more would have to sell up than currently are, which would be even worse for tenants - I'm not surprised you aren't able to purchase your own place if you don't understand the fundamentals even if you must have predicted the end in the recent low interest period that so many others didn't! I know lots of people in their 20s buying a property
I don't know why you simply don't understand the rules of supply and demand apply to both tenants and landlords. If scores of landlords sell their properties then supply outreaches demand, prices go down, tenants who want to buy that otherwise couldn't afford to buy can now afford to buy - the whole social contract begins to work again. There is obviously the problem of foreign "investors" and domestic investo- i mean landlords then hoovering up the cheaper properties - but that's where maybe a fat stamp duty on a second property could be useful to then make it unprofitable for greedy landlords and investors. This extra stamp duty could then be funelled into building social housing. I know people who've purchased their own property, but they're either doing extremely well in life or have moved to areas that bring their commute up over an hour or more. As many have said on this thread, the current system is unsustainable and delaying the inevitable (prices dropping) is just roping more and more people of my age into the hellscape of negative equity in the future.
I'm getting a vibe that kentaddick is a tenant, who doesn't earn enough money to buy his own property.
lots of people are in that position - that is not humorous - it's just unfortunately true.
The thing that sticks in my craw a little as someone in that position - I can just about afford to pay the monthly mortgage for the place I live in, as a renter - and in fact that is what I am doing - but apparently i'm not trusted enough to get a mortgage - but I can pay someone elses off and nobody sees the issue.
It's a bit sick tbh - the system seems kinda set up against me.
edit for clarity - 9 years of renting thus far. Never missed a single rent payment. seen my rent rise by 25 -50 quid a month each year in that time, (until recently) for a one bed flat. After the latest rise i requested to hand in my notice and planned to go back to parents - my (decent) landlord called me (first time in nine years i've even had to speak to the guy) and asked me what he needed to do to keep me in the place.
Yeah it was clearly meant as some kind of dig, but the majority of people of my generation (>50%) are now renters, it just comes across as hopelessly out of touch.
One of the craziest threads i've seen. Rents are high because are willing to pay them, people can't get on the ladder because they spend too much time on Charlton Life, buying property is like investing in crypto. WTF? Bet there's other gems that i've missed.
It's a bit weird, I'm still yet to be told why some one would become a landlord other than accumulating wealth off the back of some one else (their tenant).
I simply don't understand how you cannot understand the situation and think that landlords selling up means rents will go down. It's what is happening now and rents are definitely not coming down. If there weren't landlords, there wouldn't be properties to rent. Most business 'accumulate wealth off the back of some one else'!
The idea is not to have rents go down, but prices of properties to go down. Heaven forbid it'll be more affordable to buy your own property than live in some one else's. If there were no longer any private landlords, then i guess the state would have to look at providing social housing, again - heaven forbid..!
Most businesses don't trade on a fundamental human need that then soaks up >50% of their customers wages. Although thinking about it in these terms sums up the attitude of landlords, it's just a business to suck up some wealth.
This is the point most people are missing. You're not trading crypto.
I've spent the last day or so being told that being a landlord has nothing to do with greed and sponging wealth off people, and now i'm told it is and it's fine because "it's a business".
Because you think it is greed but it isn't. No one is 'sponging'. You are entitled to your opinion but it doesn't make you correct. Am off to do some more work now
I'm going to ask this for what feels like the tenth time, how is it not greed? How is it not sponging when you're contributing nothing to the productivity of the country? and, something i've definitely asked before - Why do people become landlords in the first place?
Do you hold supermarkets in the same contempt?
It's pretty clear when you buy food you're paying people for their productivity. You pay the supermarket for your food and they pay their suppliers, farmers etc. There's a much wider economy around it which helps grease the wheels of the country's economy. What productivity is a landlord contributing?
The landlord is proving access to a home which you can't or don't wish to buy for the long term.
It is a reasonable that the landlord provides that 'service' and makes a profit as he carries all the risk - mortgage costs, no tenants , bad tenants, maintenance etc.
All we are really discussing is the market rate of rents which has grown hugely & to a level that (at least in London) isn't sustainable for many.
We either rely on market dynamics of supply & demand to push rents back down or some better legislation designed that makes the cost 'fairer'. Its not wrong to be a landlord per se.
I'm not saying it is, but lets be realistic, is it morally right to have an investment that is fundamental to people's living whilst that is completely out the reach of their tenants?
Change tenants for customers and the same point applies to a supermarket, they’re profiting from the ultimate fundamental things in life.
They could service all their suppliers at cost, if it wasn’t for pure greed, apparently.
I don't get the analogy. There are landlords who own a property outright so only have to pay utility bills and upkeep, whereas farmers work on the farm and have to keep buying things like livestock to keep the farms running. Furthermore people aren't paying half of their wages or more at the supermarket each week.
Because both are making a profit from providing an essential service, so surely both must be greedy? Why is ok for a supermarket to make a profit, but a landlord not?
Profit margins at a supermarket are around 1-3%. If landlords were only making that the situation would be far different.
We make about 3.5%. Can I come back in now?
That's better than we do!
“If you don’t like landlords become homeless”. Another to paste into the book of “completely unhinged stuff I’ve read on charlton life”
Except I didn't say that did I, again you like to make up stuff. I simply said if you don't like them, think they are the devil reincarnated don't use them. Take responsibility yourself, take the risks yourself, do whatever you need to do to get away from these pesky landlords. Or are you actually quite happy to pass on the risk to someone else?
I'm sure if you put your mind to it you can save a deposit and buy a property yourself,
So if I don't use landlords and can't afford to buy, what do I do? The only option is to become homeless.
I don't know your personal circumstances, but generally where there's a will there's a way.
What can you cut back on expenditure wise? Can you for now rent somewhere cheaper? Take a second job, change job, move to a different part of the country where the income multiplier is not like London/South east.
There will be lots of options if you really want to be a home owner and get away from greedy landlords.
Ok, I'll will myself shelter without becoming homeless or renting or home owning, why haven't we all thought of that?!
Sometimes I think there are people on here who live on a completely different planet.
So what about a second job etc? Work in a bar 4/5 nights a week and that alone within 2 years will give you the deposit on a property.
It may surprise you (like it does my kids) that all of us were young once and struggled from time to time to one degree or another, I really enjoyed my time living in a bedsit in Bethnal Green (when BG was a sh1te hole) eating hula hoop sandwiches but that's what saved me from being homeless. I made a lot of sacrifices to get out of there, sometimes you have just got to suck it up and do what you need to do.
If anyone is struggling you have two options, cut expenditure or increase income, the easiest way to increase income is a second job, something many of us have done in the past to keep the wolf from the door.
To say just get a second job and work 15 hours a day for 2 years in order to purchase some property is just so laughable. I really doubt when you were living in a bedsit in BG you were paying over 50% of your wages on rent
Why is a second job so laughable? As well as they day/office job I worked 5 or 6 nights a week in a bar, overtime at work on a Saturday morning and weddings on a Saturday afternoon/evening. So about 90-100 hours a week in total.
My rent was about 25% of my main job, that's because I choose a bedsit in the cheapest and worst area I could find. Had I rented a flat near my office job (sidcup) it would have been about 40%. I was on just under £400 a month.
This is the shit attitude (IMHO) ingrained into people. If you want to do that fair play to you but instead of that being the only option why can t we have shitloads more affordable rents? Better social housing, rent caps etc etc. This brain washing where its always the people with nothings fault.
Its ALL and mean ALL that horrible witches fault.
Imagine that some people don't want to be upwardly mobile, would be quite happy with a fair wage for a fair days work and a fair rent amount and live a great life. But oh no we have to be Gordon Gekko. My god i hate capitalism and moreover Tories.
if i hear "hard working families" one more time - sound bit bullshit.
Wow, first time I've ever heard anyone say working a second job to better yourself is a sh1t attitude...........
I agree with you on more social housing, not quite sure in the current climate rent caps is workable though.
There's clearly a number on here who are anti Landlord, by some bizarre twist some of those use the services of a Landlord. Go figure.
You mean to tell me some people on this thread aren't a home owner and ARENT homeless?! WHAT A SCOOP!
I'd suggest if you believe Landlords are greedy good for nothings you stop making use of the service they provide you. Go and buy your own place, take all the risk yourself and stop putting the responsibility at someone else's door and then moan about them.
There's clearly a number on here who are anti Landlord, by some bizarre twist some of those use the services of a Landlord. Go figure.
You mean to tell me some people on this thread aren't a home owner and ARENT homeless?! WHAT A SCOOP!
I'd suggest if you believe Landlords are greedy good for nothings you stop making use of the service they provide you. Go and buy your own place, take all the risk yourself and stop putting the responsibility at someone else's door and then moan about them.
The landlords buying up all the properties to rent is precisely why people can't just 'go out and buy your own place'. What an idiotic statement.
In case you hadn't noticed many are selling up, plenty of buying opportunities right now. There's less than 5 million private rentals in the UK and shrinking fast, hence why rents are in part increasing, supply and demand.
If people are so anti Landlords then don't use them, it's quite simple.
Seriously. What's the matter with some people? I'm 49 with no pension. So if I decided in the next couple of years to buy a 2nd property as a pension, some would be happy to see it go tits up for me.
I personally don't see a problem with buying a second property outright and then letting it out at a fair price.
I do have an issue with taking out a mortgage and expecting tenants to pay for it.
So all rental properties need to be mortgage free - that's going to work, NOT! Who decides a fair price? They tried something in Scotland that just made it worse for tenants. A fair price is market price.
You do realise a lot of businesses you buy from take out loans and by doing business with them you are paying off their mortgage loan
Right, I agree. But don’t become dewy eyed when the market turns on landlords who’ve overleveraged themselves and expect tenants to pick up the tab. Having your cake and eating it comes to mind - something for nothing.
Who is going 'dewy-eyed' about anything?. If you mean by 'overleveraged themselves' is this exactly the same as many owner/occupiers due to amongst other things, the worldwide economy? Don't be surprised when rents go up - and tenants have no choice about it and some of the reasons rents have gone up because the government has passed more costs on to the landlords.
And then the landlord passes it on to the tenant? What kind hearted people they are. If you can't afford to own a property and rent it out, sell it. It's quite simple - it's the market.
Many more would have to sell up than currently are, which would be even worse for tenants - I'm not surprised you aren't able to purchase your own place if you don't understand the fundamentals even if you must have predicted the end in the recent low interest period that so many others didn't! I know lots of people in their 20s buying a property
I don't know why you simply don't understand the rules of supply and demand apply to both tenants and landlords. If scores of landlords sell their properties then supply outreaches demand, prices go down, tenants who want to buy that otherwise couldn't afford to buy can now afford to buy - the whole social contract begins to work again. There is obviously the problem of foreign "investors" and domestic investo- i mean landlords then hoovering up the cheaper properties - but that's where maybe a fat stamp duty on a second property could be useful to then make it unprofitable for greedy landlords and investors. This extra stamp duty could then be funelled into building social housing. I know people who've purchased their own property, but they're either doing extremely well in life or have moved to areas that bring their commute up over an hour or more. As many have said on this thread, the current system is unsustainable and delaying the inevitable (prices dropping) is just roping more and more people of my age into the hellscape of negative equity in the future.
I'm getting a vibe that kentaddick is a tenant, who doesn't earn enough money to buy his own property.
lots of people are in that position - that is not humorous - it's just unfortunately true.
The thing that sticks in my craw a little as someone in that position - I can just about afford to pay the monthly mortgage for the place I live in, as a renter - and in fact that is what I am doing - but apparently i'm not trusted enough to get a mortgage - but I can pay someone elses off and nobody sees the issue.
It's a bit sick tbh - the system seems kinda set up against me.
edit for clarity - 9 years of renting thus far. Never missed a single rent payment. seen my rent rise by 25 -50 quid a month each year in that time, (until recently) for a one bed flat. After the latest rise i requested to hand in my notice and planned to go back to parents - my (decent) landlord called me (first time in nine years i've even had to speak to the guy) and asked me what he needed to do to keep me in the place.
Yeah it was clearly meant as some kind of dig, but the majority of people of my generation (>50%) are now renters, it just comes across as hopelessly out of touch.
One of the craziest threads i've seen. Rents are high because are willing to pay them, people can't get on the ladder because they spend too much time on Charlton Life, buying property is like investing in crypto. WTF? Bet there's other gems that i've missed.
It's a bit weird, I'm still yet to be told why some one would become a landlord other than accumulating wealth off the back of some one else (their tenant).
I simply don't understand how you cannot understand the situation and think that landlords selling up means rents will go down. It's what is happening now and rents are definitely not coming down. If there weren't landlords, there wouldn't be properties to rent. Most business 'accumulate wealth off the back of some one else'!
The idea is not to have rents go down, but prices of properties to go down. Heaven forbid it'll be more affordable to buy your own property than live in some one else's. If there were no longer any private landlords, then i guess the state would have to look at providing social housing, again - heaven forbid..!
Most businesses don't trade on a fundamental human need that then soaks up >50% of their customers wages. Although thinking about it in these terms sums up the attitude of landlords, it's just a business to suck up some wealth.
This is the point most people are missing. You're not trading crypto.
I've spent the last day or so being told that being a landlord has nothing to do with greed and sponging wealth off people, and now i'm told it is and it's fine because "it's a business".
Because you think it is greed but it isn't. No one is 'sponging'. You are entitled to your opinion but it doesn't make you correct. Am off to do some more work now
I'm going to ask this for what feels like the tenth time, how is it not greed? How is it not sponging when you're contributing nothing to the productivity of the country? and, something i've definitely asked before - Why do people become landlords in the first place?
Do you hold supermarkets in the same contempt?
It's pretty clear when you buy food you're paying people for their productivity. You pay the supermarket for your food and they pay their suppliers, farmers etc. There's a much wider economy around it which helps grease the wheels of the country's economy. What productivity is a landlord contributing?
The landlord is proving access to a home which you can't or don't wish to buy for the long term.
It is a reasonable that the landlord provides that 'service' and makes a profit as he carries all the risk - mortgage costs, no tenants , bad tenants, maintenance etc.
All we are really discussing is the market rate of rents which has grown hugely & to a level that (at least in London) isn't sustainable for many.
We either rely on market dynamics of supply & demand to push rents back down or some better legislation designed that makes the cost 'fairer'. Its not wrong to be a landlord per se.
I'm not saying it is, but lets be realistic, is it morally right to have an investment that is fundamental to people's living whilst that is completely out the reach of their tenants?
Change tenants for customers and the same point applies to a supermarket, they’re profiting from the ultimate fundamental things in life.
They could service all their suppliers at cost, if it wasn’t for pure greed, apparently.
I don't get the analogy. There are landlords who own a property outright so only have to pay utility bills and upkeep, whereas farmers work on the farm and have to keep buying things like livestock to keep the farms running. Furthermore people aren't paying half of their wages or more at the supermarket each week.
Because both are making a profit from providing an essential service, so surely both must be greedy? Why is ok for a supermarket to make a profit, but a landlord not?
Profit margins at a supermarket are around 1-3%. If landlords were only making that the situation would be far different.
We make about 3.5%. Can I come back in now?
That's better than we do!
“If you don’t like landlords become homeless”. Another to paste into the book of “completely unhinged stuff I’ve read on charlton life”
Except I didn't say that did I, again you like to make up stuff. I simply said if you don't like them, think they are the devil reincarnated don't use them. Take responsibility yourself, take the risks yourself, do whatever you need to do to get away from these pesky landlords. Or are you actually quite happy to pass on the risk to someone else?
I'm sure if you put your mind to it you can save a deposit and buy a property yourself,
So if I don't use landlords and can't afford to buy, what do I do? The only option is to become homeless.
I don't know your personal circumstances, but generally where there's a will there's a way.
What can you cut back on expenditure wise? Can you for now rent somewhere cheaper? Take a second job, change job, move to a different part of the country where the income multiplier is not like London/South east.
There will be lots of options if you really want to be a home owner and get away from greedy landlords.
Ok, I'll will myself shelter without becoming homeless or renting or home owning, why haven't we all thought of that?!
Sometimes I think there are people on here who live on a completely different planet.
So what about a second job etc? Work in a bar 4/5 nights a week and that alone within 2 years will give you the deposit on a property.
It may surprise you (like it does my kids) that all of us were young once and struggled from time to time to one degree or another, I really enjoyed my time living in a bedsit in Bethnal Green (when BG was a sh1te hole) eating hula hoop sandwiches but that's what saved me from being homeless. I made a lot of sacrifices to get out of there, sometimes you have just got to suck it up and do what you need to do.
If anyone is struggling you have two options, cut expenditure or increase income, the easiest way to increase income is a second job, something many of us have done in the past to keep the wolf from the door.
To say just get a second job and work 15 hours a day for 2 years in order to purchase some property is just so laughable. I really doubt when you were living in a bedsit in BG you were paying over 50% of your wages on rent
Why is a second job so laughable? As well as they day/office job I worked 5 or 6 nights a week in a bar, overtime at work on a Saturday morning and weddings on a Saturday afternoon/evening. So about 90-100 hours a week in total.
My rent was about 25% of my main job, that's because I choose a bedsit in the cheapest and worst area I could find. Had I rented a flat near my office job (sidcup) it would have been about 40%. I was on just under £400 a month.
This is the shit attitude (IMHO) ingrained into people. If you want to do that fair play to you but instead of that being the only option why can t we have shitloads more affordable rents? Better social housing, rent caps etc etc. This brain washing where its always the people with nothings fault.
Its ALL and mean ALL that horrible witches fault.
Imagine that some people don't want to be upwardly mobile, would be quite happy with a fair wage for a fair days work and a fair rent amount and live a great life. But oh no we have to be Gordon Gekko. My god i hate capitalism and moreover Tories.
if i hear "hard working families" one more time - sound bit bullshit.
I think the truth is somewere inbetween (not the bit about the witch - that's a given).
I totally agree that people should not have to slog their guts out for 100 hours a week to have a reasonable lifestyle, but it isn't just this generation that has had to do more than they would really like to survive and thrive. We didn't work as hard as Rob, but - at the risk of sounding like Kirsty Allsop - we made sacrifices to be able to pay off our mortgage by the time we were forty. Mates were buying lunch at the sandwich bar or chippy every day when we were eating packed lunch at work, we went on one holiday a year when mates were going on two or three, we went to the Valley on Saturday, had a few beers then went home with a takeaway while mates were going into town clubbing three nights a week and getting a taxi home - on the rare occasion when we went out it was the night bus home. When we needed a new roof, the missus worked Saturday overtime until we paid it off (my job didn't have the option for OT, before you all jump on that).
Of course they have it far tougher now, prices are mad in London, but I know people whose 25 year old kids live at home, pay £70 a month in rent and earn £25 - £30k a year, but claim they can't save.
Like I said - somewhere inbetween are the majority.
There's clearly a number on here who are anti Landlord, by some bizarre twist some of those use the services of a Landlord. Go figure.
You mean to tell me some people on this thread aren't a home owner and ARENT homeless?! WHAT A SCOOP!
I'd suggest if you believe Landlords are greedy good for nothings you stop making use of the service they provide you. Go and buy your own place, take all the risk yourself and stop putting the responsibility at someone else's door and then moan about them.
There's clearly a number on here who are anti Landlord, by some bizarre twist some of those use the services of a Landlord. Go figure.
You mean to tell me some people on this thread aren't a home owner and ARENT homeless?! WHAT A SCOOP!
I'd suggest if you believe Landlords are greedy good for nothings you stop making use of the service they provide you. Go and buy your own place, take all the risk yourself and stop putting the responsibility at someone else's door and then moan about them.
The landlords buying up all the properties to rent is precisely why people can't just 'go out and buy your own place'. What an idiotic statement.
In case you hadn't noticed many are selling up, plenty of buying opportunities right now. There's less than 5 million private rentals in the UK and shrinking fast, hence why rents are in part increasing, supply and demand.
If people are so anti Landlords then don't use them, it's quite simple.
Seriously. What's the matter with some people? I'm 49 with no pension. So if I decided in the next couple of years to buy a 2nd property as a pension, some would be happy to see it go tits up for me.
I personally don't see a problem with buying a second property outright and then letting it out at a fair price.
I do have an issue with taking out a mortgage and expecting tenants to pay for it.
So all rental properties need to be mortgage free - that's going to work, NOT! Who decides a fair price? They tried something in Scotland that just made it worse for tenants. A fair price is market price.
You do realise a lot of businesses you buy from take out loans and by doing business with them you are paying off their mortgage loan
Right, I agree. But don’t become dewy eyed when the market turns on landlords who’ve overleveraged themselves and expect tenants to pick up the tab. Having your cake and eating it comes to mind - something for nothing.
Who is going 'dewy-eyed' about anything?. If you mean by 'overleveraged themselves' is this exactly the same as many owner/occupiers due to amongst other things, the worldwide economy? Don't be surprised when rents go up - and tenants have no choice about it and some of the reasons rents have gone up because the government has passed more costs on to the landlords.
And then the landlord passes it on to the tenant? What kind hearted people they are. If you can't afford to own a property and rent it out, sell it. It's quite simple - it's the market.
Many more would have to sell up than currently are, which would be even worse for tenants - I'm not surprised you aren't able to purchase your own place if you don't understand the fundamentals even if you must have predicted the end in the recent low interest period that so many others didn't! I know lots of people in their 20s buying a property
I don't know why you simply don't understand the rules of supply and demand apply to both tenants and landlords. If scores of landlords sell their properties then supply outreaches demand, prices go down, tenants who want to buy that otherwise couldn't afford to buy can now afford to buy - the whole social contract begins to work again. There is obviously the problem of foreign "investors" and domestic investo- i mean landlords then hoovering up the cheaper properties - but that's where maybe a fat stamp duty on a second property could be useful to then make it unprofitable for greedy landlords and investors. This extra stamp duty could then be funelled into building social housing. I know people who've purchased their own property, but they're either doing extremely well in life or have moved to areas that bring their commute up over an hour or more. As many have said on this thread, the current system is unsustainable and delaying the inevitable (prices dropping) is just roping more and more people of my age into the hellscape of negative equity in the future.
I'm getting a vibe that kentaddick is a tenant, who doesn't earn enough money to buy his own property.
lots of people are in that position - that is not humorous - it's just unfortunately true.
The thing that sticks in my craw a little as someone in that position - I can just about afford to pay the monthly mortgage for the place I live in, as a renter - and in fact that is what I am doing - but apparently i'm not trusted enough to get a mortgage - but I can pay someone elses off and nobody sees the issue.
It's a bit sick tbh - the system seems kinda set up against me.
edit for clarity - 9 years of renting thus far. Never missed a single rent payment. seen my rent rise by 25 -50 quid a month each year in that time, (until recently) for a one bed flat. After the latest rise i requested to hand in my notice and planned to go back to parents - my (decent) landlord called me (first time in nine years i've even had to speak to the guy) and asked me what he needed to do to keep me in the place.
Yeah it was clearly meant as some kind of dig, but the majority of people of my generation (>50%) are now renters, it just comes across as hopelessly out of touch.
One of the craziest threads i've seen. Rents are high because are willing to pay them, people can't get on the ladder because they spend too much time on Charlton Life, buying property is like investing in crypto. WTF? Bet there's other gems that i've missed.
It's a bit weird, I'm still yet to be told why some one would become a landlord other than accumulating wealth off the back of some one else (their tenant).
I simply don't understand how you cannot understand the situation and think that landlords selling up means rents will go down. It's what is happening now and rents are definitely not coming down. If there weren't landlords, there wouldn't be properties to rent. Most business 'accumulate wealth off the back of some one else'!
The idea is not to have rents go down, but prices of properties to go down. Heaven forbid it'll be more affordable to buy your own property than live in some one else's. If there were no longer any private landlords, then i guess the state would have to look at providing social housing, again - heaven forbid..!
Most businesses don't trade on a fundamental human need that then soaks up >50% of their customers wages. Although thinking about it in these terms sums up the attitude of landlords, it's just a business to suck up some wealth.
This is the point most people are missing. You're not trading crypto.
I've spent the last day or so being told that being a landlord has nothing to do with greed and sponging wealth off people, and now i'm told it is and it's fine because "it's a business".
Because you think it is greed but it isn't. No one is 'sponging'. You are entitled to your opinion but it doesn't make you correct. Am off to do some more work now
I'm going to ask this for what feels like the tenth time, how is it not greed? How is it not sponging when you're contributing nothing to the productivity of the country? and, something i've definitely asked before - Why do people become landlords in the first place?
Do you hold supermarkets in the same contempt?
It's pretty clear when you buy food you're paying people for their productivity. You pay the supermarket for your food and they pay their suppliers, farmers etc. There's a much wider economy around it which helps grease the wheels of the country's economy. What productivity is a landlord contributing?
The landlord is proving access to a home which you can't or don't wish to buy for the long term.
It is a reasonable that the landlord provides that 'service' and makes a profit as he carries all the risk - mortgage costs, no tenants , bad tenants, maintenance etc.
All we are really discussing is the market rate of rents which has grown hugely & to a level that (at least in London) isn't sustainable for many.
We either rely on market dynamics of supply & demand to push rents back down or some better legislation designed that makes the cost 'fairer'. Its not wrong to be a landlord per se.
I'm not saying it is, but lets be realistic, is it morally right to have an investment that is fundamental to people's living whilst that is completely out the reach of their tenants?
Change tenants for customers and the same point applies to a supermarket, they’re profiting from the ultimate fundamental things in life.
They could service all their suppliers at cost, if it wasn’t for pure greed, apparently.
I don't get the analogy. There are landlords who own a property outright so only have to pay utility bills and upkeep, whereas farmers work on the farm and have to keep buying things like livestock to keep the farms running. Furthermore people aren't paying half of their wages or more at the supermarket each week.
Because both are making a profit from providing an essential service, so surely both must be greedy? Why is ok for a supermarket to make a profit, but a landlord not?
Profit margins at a supermarket are around 1-3%. If landlords were only making that the situation would be far different.
We make about 3.5%. Can I come back in now?
That's better than we do!
“If you don’t like landlords become homeless”. Another to paste into the book of “completely unhinged stuff I’ve read on charlton life”
Except I didn't say that did I, again you like to make up stuff. I simply said if you don't like them, think they are the devil reincarnated don't use them. Take responsibility yourself, take the risks yourself, do whatever you need to do to get away from these pesky landlords. Or are you actually quite happy to pass on the risk to someone else?
I'm sure if you put your mind to it you can save a deposit and buy a property yourself,
So if I don't use landlords and can't afford to buy, what do I do? The only option is to become homeless.
I don't know your personal circumstances, but generally where there's a will there's a way.
What can you cut back on expenditure wise? Can you for now rent somewhere cheaper? Take a second job, change job, move to a different part of the country where the income multiplier is not like London/South east.
There will be lots of options if you really want to be a home owner and get away from greedy landlords.
Ok, I'll will myself shelter without becoming homeless or renting or home owning, why haven't we all thought of that?!
Sometimes I think there are people on here who live on a completely different planet.
So what about a second job etc? Work in a bar 4/5 nights a week and that alone within 2 years will give you the deposit on a property.
It may surprise you (like it does my kids) that all of us were young once and struggled from time to time to one degree or another, I really enjoyed my time living in a bedsit in Bethnal Green (when BG was a sh1te hole) eating hula hoop sandwiches but that's what saved me from being homeless. I made a lot of sacrifices to get out of there, sometimes you have just got to suck it up and do what you need to do.
If anyone is struggling you have two options, cut expenditure or increase income, the easiest way to increase income is a second job, something many of us have done in the past to keep the wolf from the door.
To say just get a second job and work 15 hours a day for 2 years in order to purchase some property is just so laughable. I really doubt when you were living in a bedsit in BG you were paying over 50% of your wages on rent
Why is a second job so laughable? As well as they day/office job I worked 5 or 6 nights a week in a bar, overtime at work on a Saturday morning and weddings on a Saturday afternoon/evening. So about 90-100 hours a week in total.
My rent was about 25% of my main job, that's because I choose a bedsit in the cheapest and worst area I could find. Had I rented a flat near my office job (sidcup) it would have been about 40%. I was on just under £400 a month.
This is the shit attitude (IMHO) ingrained into people. If you want to do that fair play to you but instead of that being the only option why can t we have shitloads more affordable rents? Better social housing, rent caps etc etc. This brain washing where its always the people with nothings fault.
Its ALL and mean ALL that horrible witches fault.
Imagine that some people don't want to be upwardly mobile, would be quite happy with a fair wage for a fair days work and a fair rent amount and live a great life. But oh no we have to be Gordon Gekko. My god i hate capitalism and moreover Tories.
if i hear "hard working families" one more time - sound bit bullshit.
Wow, first time I've ever heard anyone say working a second job to better yourself is a sh1t attitude...........
I agree with you on more social housing, not quite sure in the current climate rent caps is workable though.
30 years in the Fire brigade and 30 years of having a second job. Absolutely no way could I have afforded to buy my house and raise a family without a second job. Pretty much every fireman I ever worked with done the same.
There's clearly a number on here who are anti Landlord, by some bizarre twist some of those use the services of a Landlord. Go figure.
You mean to tell me some people on this thread aren't a home owner and ARENT homeless?! WHAT A SCOOP!
I'd suggest if you believe Landlords are greedy good for nothings you stop making use of the service they provide you. Go and buy your own place, take all the risk yourself and stop putting the responsibility at someone else's door and then moan about them.
There's clearly a number on here who are anti Landlord, by some bizarre twist some of those use the services of a Landlord. Go figure.
You mean to tell me some people on this thread aren't a home owner and ARENT homeless?! WHAT A SCOOP!
I'd suggest if you believe Landlords are greedy good for nothings you stop making use of the service they provide you. Go and buy your own place, take all the risk yourself and stop putting the responsibility at someone else's door and then moan about them.
The landlords buying up all the properties to rent is precisely why people can't just 'go out and buy your own place'. What an idiotic statement.
In case you hadn't noticed many are selling up, plenty of buying opportunities right now. There's less than 5 million private rentals in the UK and shrinking fast, hence why rents are in part increasing, supply and demand.
If people are so anti Landlords then don't use them, it's quite simple.
Seriously. What's the matter with some people? I'm 49 with no pension. So if I decided in the next couple of years to buy a 2nd property as a pension, some would be happy to see it go tits up for me.
I personally don't see a problem with buying a second property outright and then letting it out at a fair price.
I do have an issue with taking out a mortgage and expecting tenants to pay for it.
So all rental properties need to be mortgage free - that's going to work, NOT! Who decides a fair price? They tried something in Scotland that just made it worse for tenants. A fair price is market price.
You do realise a lot of businesses you buy from take out loans and by doing business with them you are paying off their mortgage loan
Right, I agree. But don’t become dewy eyed when the market turns on landlords who’ve overleveraged themselves and expect tenants to pick up the tab. Having your cake and eating it comes to mind - something for nothing.
Who is going 'dewy-eyed' about anything?. If you mean by 'overleveraged themselves' is this exactly the same as many owner/occupiers due to amongst other things, the worldwide economy? Don't be surprised when rents go up - and tenants have no choice about it and some of the reasons rents have gone up because the government has passed more costs on to the landlords.
And then the landlord passes it on to the tenant? What kind hearted people they are. If you can't afford to own a property and rent it out, sell it. It's quite simple - it's the market.
Many more would have to sell up than currently are, which would be even worse for tenants - I'm not surprised you aren't able to purchase your own place if you don't understand the fundamentals even if you must have predicted the end in the recent low interest period that so many others didn't! I know lots of people in their 20s buying a property
I don't know why you simply don't understand the rules of supply and demand apply to both tenants and landlords. If scores of landlords sell their properties then supply outreaches demand, prices go down, tenants who want to buy that otherwise couldn't afford to buy can now afford to buy - the whole social contract begins to work again. There is obviously the problem of foreign "investors" and domestic investo- i mean landlords then hoovering up the cheaper properties - but that's where maybe a fat stamp duty on a second property could be useful to then make it unprofitable for greedy landlords and investors. This extra stamp duty could then be funelled into building social housing. I know people who've purchased their own property, but they're either doing extremely well in life or have moved to areas that bring their commute up over an hour or more. As many have said on this thread, the current system is unsustainable and delaying the inevitable (prices dropping) is just roping more and more people of my age into the hellscape of negative equity in the future.
I'm getting a vibe that kentaddick is a tenant, who doesn't earn enough money to buy his own property.
lots of people are in that position - that is not humorous - it's just unfortunately true.
The thing that sticks in my craw a little as someone in that position - I can just about afford to pay the monthly mortgage for the place I live in, as a renter - and in fact that is what I am doing - but apparently i'm not trusted enough to get a mortgage - but I can pay someone elses off and nobody sees the issue.
It's a bit sick tbh - the system seems kinda set up against me.
edit for clarity - 9 years of renting thus far. Never missed a single rent payment. seen my rent rise by 25 -50 quid a month each year in that time, (until recently) for a one bed flat. After the latest rise i requested to hand in my notice and planned to go back to parents - my (decent) landlord called me (first time in nine years i've even had to speak to the guy) and asked me what he needed to do to keep me in the place.
Yeah it was clearly meant as some kind of dig, but the majority of people of my generation (>50%) are now renters, it just comes across as hopelessly out of touch.
One of the craziest threads i've seen. Rents are high because are willing to pay them, people can't get on the ladder because they spend too much time on Charlton Life, buying property is like investing in crypto. WTF? Bet there's other gems that i've missed.
It's a bit weird, I'm still yet to be told why some one would become a landlord other than accumulating wealth off the back of some one else (their tenant).
I simply don't understand how you cannot understand the situation and think that landlords selling up means rents will go down. It's what is happening now and rents are definitely not coming down. If there weren't landlords, there wouldn't be properties to rent. Most business 'accumulate wealth off the back of some one else'!
The idea is not to have rents go down, but prices of properties to go down. Heaven forbid it'll be more affordable to buy your own property than live in some one else's. If there were no longer any private landlords, then i guess the state would have to look at providing social housing, again - heaven forbid..!
Most businesses don't trade on a fundamental human need that then soaks up >50% of their customers wages. Although thinking about it in these terms sums up the attitude of landlords, it's just a business to suck up some wealth.
This is the point most people are missing. You're not trading crypto.
I've spent the last day or so being told that being a landlord has nothing to do with greed and sponging wealth off people, and now i'm told it is and it's fine because "it's a business".
Because you think it is greed but it isn't. No one is 'sponging'. You are entitled to your opinion but it doesn't make you correct. Am off to do some more work now
I'm going to ask this for what feels like the tenth time, how is it not greed? How is it not sponging when you're contributing nothing to the productivity of the country? and, something i've definitely asked before - Why do people become landlords in the first place?
Do you hold supermarkets in the same contempt?
It's pretty clear when you buy food you're paying people for their productivity. You pay the supermarket for your food and they pay their suppliers, farmers etc. There's a much wider economy around it which helps grease the wheels of the country's economy. What productivity is a landlord contributing?
The landlord is proving access to a home which you can't or don't wish to buy for the long term.
It is a reasonable that the landlord provides that 'service' and makes a profit as he carries all the risk - mortgage costs, no tenants , bad tenants, maintenance etc.
All we are really discussing is the market rate of rents which has grown hugely & to a level that (at least in London) isn't sustainable for many.
We either rely on market dynamics of supply & demand to push rents back down or some better legislation designed that makes the cost 'fairer'. Its not wrong to be a landlord per se.
I'm not saying it is, but lets be realistic, is it morally right to have an investment that is fundamental to people's living whilst that is completely out the reach of their tenants?
Change tenants for customers and the same point applies to a supermarket, they’re profiting from the ultimate fundamental things in life.
They could service all their suppliers at cost, if it wasn’t for pure greed, apparently.
I don't get the analogy. There are landlords who own a property outright so only have to pay utility bills and upkeep, whereas farmers work on the farm and have to keep buying things like livestock to keep the farms running. Furthermore people aren't paying half of their wages or more at the supermarket each week.
Because both are making a profit from providing an essential service, so surely both must be greedy? Why is ok for a supermarket to make a profit, but a landlord not?
Profit margins at a supermarket are around 1-3%. If landlords were only making that the situation would be far different.
We make about 3.5%. Can I come back in now?
That's better than we do!
“If you don’t like landlords become homeless”. Another to paste into the book of “completely unhinged stuff I’ve read on charlton life”
Except I didn't say that did I, again you like to make up stuff. I simply said if you don't like them, think they are the devil reincarnated don't use them. Take responsibility yourself, take the risks yourself, do whatever you need to do to get away from these pesky landlords. Or are you actually quite happy to pass on the risk to someone else?
I'm sure if you put your mind to it you can save a deposit and buy a property yourself,
So if I don't use landlords and can't afford to buy, what do I do? The only option is to become homeless.
I don't know your personal circumstances, but generally where there's a will there's a way.
What can you cut back on expenditure wise? Can you for now rent somewhere cheaper? Take a second job, change job, move to a different part of the country where the income multiplier is not like London/South east.
There will be lots of options if you really want to be a home owner and get away from greedy landlords.
Ok, I'll will myself shelter without becoming homeless or renting or home owning, why haven't we all thought of that?!
Sometimes I think there are people on here who live on a completely different planet.
So what about a second job etc? Work in a bar 4/5 nights a week and that alone within 2 years will give you the deposit on a property.
It may surprise you (like it does my kids) that all of us were young once and struggled from time to time to one degree or another, I really enjoyed my time living in a bedsit in Bethnal Green (when BG was a sh1te hole) eating hula hoop sandwiches but that's what saved me from being homeless. I made a lot of sacrifices to get out of there, sometimes you have just got to suck it up and do what you need to do.
If anyone is struggling you have two options, cut expenditure or increase income, the easiest way to increase income is a second job, something many of us have done in the past to keep the wolf from the door.
To say just get a second job and work 15 hours a day for 2 years in order to purchase some property is just so laughable. I really doubt when you were living in a bedsit in BG you were paying over 50% of your wages on rent
Why is a second job so laughable? As well as they day/office job I worked 5 or 6 nights a week in a bar, overtime at work on a Saturday morning and weddings on a Saturday afternoon/evening. So about 90-100 hours a week in total.
My rent was about 25% of my main job, that's because I choose a bedsit in the cheapest and worst area I could find. Had I rented a flat near my office job (sidcup) it would have been about 40%. I was on just under £400 a month.
FTR, I went on Zoopla and the cheapest studio for rent in Bethnal Green is £1,350 a month. Times have changed.
Whilst I agree with Rob7Lee’s approach to hard work and sacrifice, I think this is an extremely important point. Even with a second job, the cost of property in London and the south East is eye watering, whether that be renting or saving for a deposit. Costs have increased across the board and wages have not kept in line. Food and energy bills may be coming down, but house prices aren’t, Rob himself said there is less than 5m rental properties available in the UK and demand is more than supply, hence bigger rents.
I think perhaps it’s still achievable taking Rob’s route, but it will be a longer pathway and second jobs aren’t always as easy as they sound. If you’re a young person leaving Uni/full time education, starting salaries are okay for grads in big companies, but for those that don’t get on grad schemes, you’re probably looking at second jobs just to pay the rent. You’ve got a lot of people getting onto the property ladder later in life, I am one of them. Around your late 20s/early 30s, you may be in a job that requires you to spend extra hours in the office just to keep the job/get ahead in your career. It’s not always as simple as getting a second job. Then you’ve got to factor in your health. We can all work 100 hour weeks, but we can’t work them for a sustained period without impacting your wellbeing and your relationships.
Hats off to those that have worked extra jobs to get where they’ve got to today, but I think times are very different. I sympathize with what Kent is saying and I think it’s clouding his judgment a bit re: his stance on landlords, and agree with Bob Munro’s posts. But I do think notion of where there is a will there is a way has been skewed quite a bit in recent years because of the way things have gone.
The most surprising thing about this thread is that someone whom has been a leading exponent on here of investing in crypto for at least 6years, and talks so confidently about knowing how that market will move is living in rented accommodation and does not have a deposit for a house.
From your posts on the crypto thread I assumed you had a pretty hefty wedge invested and would be buying a house (or maybe even a portfolio of them) with cash.
Private sellers in 'not accepting NFTs as a way of payment' shocker
Anyway, I think what is clear, whatever side of the fence you are on, is that (successive) governments need to do more to bring more social housing onto the market
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If you were selling a house and someone offered the asking price and 5 others offered above, would you sell to the person who offered what must have been an acceptable amount to you? Or would you (all parties being equal) sell to one of the higher bidders? It's common sense isn't it?
I don't know your sons position, but does he need to be renting in such an expensive area? Could he not rent further out and probably half his rent? With the difference save for a deposit on his own place? I have this conversation with a couple of the grads at work, they rent a room in notting hill, £1450 a month each!
I accept your analogy but my point was in response to the suggestion that most landlords are struggling. While this may be the case for some, clearly, if many can command rents above that advertised, they are doing ok.
Having reached their mid twenties both my son & his mate felt they needed to move out of the family homes, which I totally get. I did discuss various options with him but they both work in Central London (we live in Dartford) & that was the main reason they chose that area, although I've no doubt that the London scene also appealed !
why are people spending all this money renting, when they could have stayed at home and saved for a deposit...
Stay at home and save @30%-50% of your wage from day 1. By the time you get to your mid 20's you should have enough for a deposit to buy your first property. It's what I did (lived in council house with parents) and it's what my son did. There is no way I would have moved out, to pay someone else's mortgage for them and prevent me from saving. If you take a choice of preferring to rent then it's a bad financial choice, unless you simply had to move out for things such as safety reasons, abuse. (Obviously in Seth's case he has told us numerous times he was in care so didn't have that option). Oh and like Rob7Lee I worked my "butt off" from age 18 to earn as much as I could.
Anyway, I think what is clear, whatever side of the fence you are on, is that (successive) governments need to do more to bring more social housing onto the market
One thing I will say about my generation is that they always say "I can only rent because the only place I could afford would be [insert criticism about somewhere smaller than a 3 bedroom penthouse here]"
The second you are paying a mortgage rather than someone else's mortgage, you're in the club.
Most people when they buy their first place will only be able to afford somewhere that isn't as good as somewhere they currently rent.
Get on the ladder, because it is being pulled further out of your reach every day.
Comments
Instinctively you'd think move a little further out and pay less.
My rent was about 25% of my main job, that's because I choose a bedsit in the cheapest and worst area I could find. Had I rented a flat near my office job (sidcup) it would have been about 40%. I was on just under £400 a month.
Behave.
Its ALL and mean ALL that horrible witches fault.
Imagine that some people don't want to be upwardly mobile, would be quite happy with a fair wage for a fair days work and a fair rent amount and live a great life. But oh no we have to be Gordon Gekko. My god i hate capitalism and moreover Tories.
if i hear "hard working families" one more time - sound bit bullshit.
We let at about 30% under the going rent rate for the areas, as we brought both with sitting tenants who were on low rents, and agreed to keep them low. We prefer happy tenants who look after the places hope that we are not greedy.
Private landlords invest in BTL properties to make a return on that investment - I haven't read the whole thread word for word but has anyone said otherwise? They are providing a service for a profit, as is the case with any 'for profit' organisation providing goods or services. They are not responsible for ensuring all citizens are able to afford housing, whether that be rent or purchase (and it is not an inalienable right to own property - I own my own property and the land it is built on and the surrounding curtilage is freehold, but that's how things work). It is the responsibility of government, with social housing subsidised through general taxation if need be and pressure on property developers through compulsory purchase of land banks so as to build social housing.
If BTL landlords are not able to make a profit from their activities then they won't do it - they will sell up and get 6.2% yield with a NS&I fix. That's the world we live in and if it's gone tits up then blame the right people - successive governments.
Just out of interest, if you bought £10k worth of crypto at the right time and were able to sell it for £100k - would you give most of it away as excess profits. Do you/have you invested in crypto (as you seem to encourage others to do so) to in some way give back to society? In fact what does it add to the social contract that may have existed once somewhere on this planet but not for a very long time. Or do you see it as a valid return on investment (or greed in your language).
You, as are very many, are in the unenviable position of not being able to buy a property or rent at an affordable level - I absolutely agree that needs to change. But it is not private landlords that should shoulder the blame. (I am not a private landlord btw).
Still a lot of people out there though with a lot of money.
Would a house price crash make it much easier for those that rent to be able to buy?
You've got parents out there selling their houses , downsizing and giving the kids tens of thousands each to buy a place.
From your posts on the crypto thread I assumed you had a pretty hefty wedge invested and would be buying a house (or maybe even a portfolio of them) with cash.
I agree with you on more social housing, not quite sure in the current climate rent caps is workable though.
I totally agree that people should not have to slog their guts out for 100 hours a week to have a reasonable lifestyle, but it isn't just this generation that has had to do more than they would really like to survive and thrive. We didn't work as hard as Rob, but - at the risk of sounding like Kirsty Allsop - we made sacrifices to be able to pay off our mortgage by the time we were forty. Mates were buying lunch at the sandwich bar or chippy every day when we were eating packed lunch at work, we went on one holiday a year when mates were going on two or three, we went to the Valley on Saturday, had a few beers then went home with a takeaway while mates were going into town clubbing three nights a week and getting a taxi home - on the rare occasion when we went out it was the night bus home. When we needed a new roof, the missus worked Saturday overtime until we paid it off (my job didn't have the option for OT, before you all jump on that).
Of course they have it far tougher now, prices are mad in London, but I know people whose 25 year old kids live at home, pay £70 a month in rent and earn £25 - £30k a year, but claim they can't save.
Like I said - somewhere inbetween are the majority.
Absolutely no way could I have afforded to buy my house and raise a family without a second job.
Pretty much every fireman I ever worked with done the same.
How much could would that two bed apartment in Elephant and Castle be to rent in say Gravesend ?
Weekly = £103.60
Monthly = £397.90
Annual = £4,144
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By the time you get to your mid 20's you should have enough for a deposit to buy your first property.
It's what I did (lived in council house with parents) and it's what my son did.
There is no way I would have moved out, to pay someone else's mortgage for them and prevent me from saving.
If you take a choice of preferring to rent then it's a bad financial choice, unless you simply had to move out for things such as safety reasons, abuse.
(Obviously in Seth's case he has told us numerous times he was in care so didn't have that option).
Oh and like Rob7Lee I worked my "butt off" from age 18 to earn as much as I could.
https://www.london.gov.uk/sadiq-hits-landmark-council-housing-target-london-building-double-council-housing-rest-country
The second you are paying a mortgage rather than someone else's mortgage, you're in the club.
Most people when they buy their first place will only be able to afford somewhere that isn't as good as somewhere they currently rent.
Get on the ladder, because it is being pulled further out of your reach every day.