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'Social Housing' .. and Rip Off Landlords

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  • colthe3rd said:
    For anyone playing boomer bingo in this thread they'd have multiple houses.
    It's all those avocados the youngsters are eating. No wonder they can't afford a £2k/month mortgage.

  • https://www.london.gov.uk/sadiq-hits-landmark-council-housing-target-london-building-double-council-housing-rest-country
    That’s good , hopefully continue in the next 5-10 years as well 

    shocking figures for rest of country 
  • My son worked hard & saved & bought a flat last year.
    ALL of his school friends have done the same. 
    It's about attitude in the main & being financially astute.

    I had no privilege and nor did my girlfriend, unless you class living in council houses with our parents as privileged. 
    Did you give much help to your son financially?
  • clb74 said:
    Did you give much help to your son financially?
    No.
  • edited September 2023
    clb74 said:
    Did you give much help to your son financially?
    You're so f****** nosey :D<3
  • My son worked hard & saved & bought a flat last year.
    He put down 20% on his flat last year from HIS savings.
    He decided to act fast when we thought that mortgage rates were about to start rising.
    He got in just in time.

    ALL of his school friends have done the same. 
    It's about attitude in the main & being financially astute.

    I had no privilege and nor did my girlfriend, unless you class living in council houses with our parents as privileged.
    Neither set of parents had a "pot to piss in".
    We had no car, no washing machine, no telephone. Our holidays were a day at the zoo or a hired caravan in Hastings. I'd never been abroad, we couldn't afford to buy biscuits or fizzy drinks, it was water or cordial. I'd never had a takeaway.
    I remember wearing shoes that hurt and bent my toes, because they were too small & I didn't want to tell my mum because I knew she couldn't afford to buy a new pair.
    Obviously no central heating, no heating upstairs, just one gas fire in the living room.

    When I started work I paid my mum £100, saved £100 & spent £100 of my £300 pm wage.
    Judging by the state of your clothes you're still minus a washing machine B)
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  • edited September 2023
    colthe3rd said:
    For anyone playing boomer bingo in this thread they'd have multiple houses.
    I know what you mean, but I did qualify my comments with the understanding that it is harder now. But I see some youngesters doing nothing to help themselves. Some parents don't help either. A friend's late twenty-something kid was asked to contribute a more realistic amount to the household budget than the £50 a month they were paying out of their £500 a week earnings (the kid is not saving, but drives a posh car, holidays all the time in the Maldives etc). The reaction was "Well I will just move out and live in a bedsit in (insert name of nearby shithole here)." Queue parent folding like a pack of cards... 

    My late father in-law used to say how he felt sorry for our generation (generation X in my case). They paid £3.50 (exaggerating for effect, but using the expression he did) for their three bedroom detached bungalow in 1965, he had a super non-contributory work pension that allowed him to retire in his fifties with a decent income, and he and ma-in-law both got their old age pensions from the actual date they were told they would get them when they started work, rather than having the goalposts moved every few years.

               
  • edited September 2023
    colthe3rd said:
    Well no it's not only a boomer thing but given the percentage of younger people who own property is pretty small then it mostly is. Comments like "get a second job", "work harder", "save more" are quite frankly insulting and so out of touch with what is happening. What a lot of people won't want to admit is that being privileged enough to be able to buy a house a lot comes down to being fortunate enough. Lives are complex and you have no idea on an individual's circumstances to say such things.

    Taking your example, do you really think that the average 25 year old now could put down 30% on a house without any help? Taking it further how many people fully pay off a mortgage before 40? Sounds like you've done well for yourself and that's to be applauded but don't take your own life experiences and think they can apply to everyone especially when so much has changed over the past few decades.
    Why is suggesting a second job insulting and out of touch? 'When I was young' most of my mates had second jobs, as did my now wife.

    Interesting how a couple of those I specifically suggested this to as a way to get away from the greedy landlords have dissappeared.

    On the 25 year old, unlikely at that age today, I suspect @covered end like me started work at 16 whereas 99% of people now start at 18 or 21/22 so you'd need to add 9 years to those, but broadly it could be possible yes. Covered end mentioned as a couple so on a £250k property now could 2 people working a job at a bank etc save 75k in 9 years (if living with parents) yes quite easily, it's about £275 a month each.

    EDIT, put that amount in a LISA and you'll get 25% added to it, something Coveredend wouldn't have benefitted from.
  • A bit of help to Landlords and tenants with the changes to EPC requirements. Scapping the requirement to have C or better for new tenancies. Common sense at last.
  • So now the solution to housing is you and your partner get a job at a bank and both live at home for another decade... brilliant. 
  • shine166 said:
    So now the solution to housing is you and your partner get a job at a bank and both live at home for another decade... brilliant. 
    That's what coveredend did, that's what many people did, a bit like second jobs, I really don't get why people think you don't have to make sacrifices and put in effort over a period of time.
  • My son worked hard & saved & bought a flat last year.
    He put down 20% on his flat last year from HIS savings.
    He decided to act fast when we thought that mortgage rates were about to start rising.
    He got in just in time.

    ALL of his school friends have done the same. 
    It's about attitude in the main & being financially astute.

    I had no privilege and nor did my girlfriend, unless you class living in council houses with our parents as privileged.
    Neither set of parents had a "pot to piss in".
    We had no car, no washing machine, no telephone. Our holidays were a day at the zoo or a hired caravan in Hastings. I'd never been abroad, we couldn't afford to buy biscuits or fizzy drinks, it was water or cordial. I'd never had a takeaway.
    I remember wearing shoes that hurt and bent my toes, because they were too small & I didn't want to tell my mum because I knew she couldn't afford to buy a new pair.
    Obviously no central heating, no heating upstairs, just one gas fire in the living room.

    When I started work I paid my mum £100, saved £100 & spent £100 of my £300 pm wage.
    I wasn't inferring you grew up privileged, but the ability to buy a house is undoubtedly a privilege. Yes I'm sure you worked hard but millions of others work hard and have no hope of ever being fortunate enough to buy a house. Maybe they have had things happen in their life which has meant they can't work as much as they wanted. Maybe they work in an industry that refuses to pay them what they are worth. Maybe they need to look after a loved one.

    Those people are unfortunate and you clearly have been very fortunate. Both work hard so to just assume by working hard and saving enough will get you a house is not quite clear cut as it seems.
  • No.
    Allowing him to live with you until he was 28 would be a massive help. 
  • If it were truly that simple and transparently that obvious Blair and Brown would surely have addressed it?

    As I say I think it’s more unintended consequences. Rent rises to unaffordable levels are the main issue I think. There needs to be some mechanism to limit rental amounts that landlords can get from councils : government. 
    I think once the housing stock was sold off there was very little that could be done.
    House prices are unaffordable for most now, unless their parents have money, or are ready to downsize and give the surplus equity to their kids. 
  • Rob7Lee said:
    That's what coveredend did, that's what many people did, a bit like second jobs, I really don't get why people think you don't have to make sacrifices and put in effort over a period of time.

    I am guessing from you and Covered Ends posts you would have bought your first houses between 30-40 years ago.  At that time houses were, on average 4-6* the average salary.  Currently they are more like 9*.
    I think under almost all sensible comparables house prices today are way too high and completely unattainable for huge swathes of young people, almost irrespective.
    I am fortunate enough to own my house and have worked very long hours for 20 years (one job but not uncommon for me to work 12+ hours a day).  It has helped me get on and live a reasonably comfortable life.  I do not want my kids to work in the same way though. There should be more of a balance, the solution to home ownership should not be multiple jobs.  What I do agree with however is there should be an element of discipline and saving needed; that is just sensible.
    House prices are way too high but we do also need landlords for reasons I have explained above.
    The answer is for the state to have more housing they own (how they ever afford that I simply don't know although there are one or two half decent thoughts from people on here - who would have thought Maggie generating wealth for one generation would have had long term effects eh!); it is also to build more houses generally. That means incentivising builders to build more - not popular because everyone says builders are greedy but the reality is that right now very few developments are viable so there is much less of this happening.
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  • JamesSeed said:
    I think once the housing stock was sold off there was very little that could be done.
    House prices are unaffordable for most now, unless their parents have money, or are ready to downsize and give the surplus equity to their kids. 
    Council property with a reasonable level of rent was in essence replaced with private sector housing and housing benefit. HB is the second biggest expense to the DWP after state pension (now rolled into UC).
  • Rob7Lee said:
    That's what coveredend did, that's what many people did, a bit like second jobs, I really don't get why people think you don't have to make sacrifices and put in effort over a period of time.
    No it's great, but even staying at home with parents while earning 35k a year is a luxury that millions don't have.
  • shine166 said:
    So now the solution to housing is you and your partner get a job at a bank and both live at home for another decade... brilliant. 
    High street banks do not pay big salaries particularly for those in their early career. 

    I think the suggestion / observation is more a reasonable job may allow that level of saving. 

    I assure you from personal experience not all in Financial Services earn the big bucks!

  • I am guessing from you and Covered Ends posts you would have bought your first houses between 30-40 years ago.  At that time houses were, on average 4-6* the average salary.  Currently they are more like 9*.
    I think under almost all sensible comparables house prices today are way too high and completely unattainable for huge swathes of young people, almost irrespective.
    I am fortunate enough to own my house and have worked very long hours for 20 years (one job but not uncommon for me to work 12+ hours a day).  It has helped me get on and live a reasonably comfortable life.  I do not want my kids to work in the same way though. There should be more of a balance, the solution to home ownership should not be multiple jobs.  What I do agree with however is there should be an element of discipline and saving needed; that is just sensible.
    House prices are way too high but we do also need landlords for reasons I have explained above.
    The answer is for the state to have more housing they own (how they ever afford that I simply don't know although there are one or two half decent thoughts from people on here - who would have thought Maggie generating wealth for one generation would have had long term effects eh!); it is also to build more houses generally. That means incentivising builders to build more - not popular because everyone says builders are greedy but the reality is that right now very few developments are viable so there is much less of this happening.
    Correct, for me it was in 1993/94 so yes 30 years ago.

    I'm not suggesting it's easy, I'm not suggesting with prices it's not more difficult now. There's a lot of variables, i.e. back in 93 mortgage interest rates were around 10/11%, so whilst house price was relatively cheaper as you indicate on multipliers the monthly expenditure on a mortgage would at that point have been similar due to interest rates, two years ago when rates were very low it'd likely have been relatively cheaper.

    I really don't get why second jobs is seen as such a bad thing, once upon a time it was the norm, even my father in law (now 76) worked in a factory Monday - Friday, did the pools in the week door to door, also sold vacuum cleaners! and did chauffeuring (weddings) on a Saturday.

    If you have a relatively decent job, are fortunate to be able to live with parents, there really is no reason in that instance to not be able to save a deposit, especially if you use things like a LISA where you get a 25% bonus on up to £4k a year savings. A couple saving £4k a year each, £5k with bonus in 3 years has £30k+. 

    shine166 said:
    No it's great, but even staying at home with parents while earning 35k a year is a luxury that millions don't have.
    Totally agree, home ownership isn't within everyones reach, and never has been.

    But I can show you many people at my work who earn considerably more than £35k, live with their parents (or could) yet are somehow unable to save. For those it's 100% the choices they make, the cars they buy, the holidays they go on, the £10 lunches every day, the costa coffee 3x a day or their desire to pay £1400 a month for a room in Notting Hill etc etc. On the flip side there are people at my work, same salary levels who due to their choices have their own house by their mid to late 20's. One of the lads, 27 has just bought a £400k flat in Chislehurst.
  • My son worked hard & saved & bought a flat last year.
    He put down 20% on his flat last year from HIS savings.
    He decided to act fast when we thought that mortgage rates were about to start rising.
    He got in just in time.

    ALL of his school friends have done the same. 
    It's about attitude in the main & being financially astute.

    I had no privilege and nor did my girlfriend, unless you class living in council houses with our parents as privileged.
    Neither set of parents had a "pot to piss in".
    We had no car, no washing machine, no telephone. Our holidays were a day at the zoo or a hired caravan in Hastings. I'd never been abroad, we couldn't afford to buy biscuits or fizzy drinks, it was water or cordial. I'd never had a takeaway.
    I remember wearing shoes that hurt and bent my toes, because they were too small & I didn't want to tell my mum because I knew she couldn't afford to buy a new pair.
    Obviously no central heating, no heating upstairs, just one gas fire in the living room.
    Luxury. 
  • edited September 2023
    Chunes said:
    1995.
    Average London salary: 20k
    Average house price: 80k.
    Ratio to annual earnings: 4x 

    2023.
    Average London salary: 37k
    Average house price: 537k
    Ratio to annual earnings: 14x 

    Mortgage Repayment as % of Salary
    (For average London house, on average London salary)

    1995: 29% of salary

    2023: 79%* of salary

    *The av. London house is no longer affordable to the average Londoner. 

    (All above calculations factor in the higher interest rates of the nineties, historic tax rates, MIRAS, etc).

    -

    But this is without even factoring the impacts on cost of living since the 90's. 

    London salaries have risen by 85% since 1995. But rent is up 200%+, transportation is up 140%, groceries up 100%+, utilities up 200%, entertainment up 200%. It goes on. 

    Everything is eating away at the money that was previously left over that used to go towards saving for a deposit. 

    If it was hard for you back at the bottom of the market, and you had to scrimp and save, it's now more than 10x harder, and all for a less desirable property than you got. If you find yourself wondering why there is less desire among young people to sacrifice, this is why. 
    Whilst as lot of that is true I'd question the 1995 and only 29% of salary. On a gross basis (on £20k) that would be £480 a month/£5760 a year, I'd make it more like £700/£8400 or 40-45%, net I'm not sure but tax at that salary level was higher back then.

    Where I would agree, London is a harder place to buy than maybe it once was, but then again certainly the generation before me, i.e. my parents, couldn't afford London so their first houses were out in places like Rainham or Gillingham.

    I did manage to buy in London, all be it Grove Park so one of the cheaper areas. EDIT, should probably add the only reason I could do that was I on purpose and purely from a housing/mortgage perspective changed jobs to a building society to get a 5% mortgage, salary in 1993 was £12,500.
  • edited September 2023
    High street banks do not pay big salaries particularly for those in their early career. 

    I think the suggestion / observation is more a reasonable job may allow that level of saving. 

    I assure you from personal experience not all in Financial Services earn the big bucks!
    The number is irrelevant really, staying at home after school isn't a option for many. It's not an excuse, just a observation.
  • Rob7Lee said:
    Wow, first time I've ever heard anyone say working a second job to better yourself is a sh1t attitude...........

    I agree with you on more social housing, not quite sure in the current climate rent caps is workable though.
    I wasn’t saying it’s shit to do 2 jobs and work your arse off. I was saying it ain’t compulsory and it’s the sort of thing that’s becoming more and more lauded.  Let’s ogle Philip Green and Jeff Bezos as heroes while we have to work 90 hours a week for years to get a few shiny things.

    probably saying it badly. 

    I’d love the world to just calm down and stop consuming shit and thinking we all have to be rich and on the property ladder etc. it’s a fucking con to keep us in our place started by that horrible dead bitch.The chances of getting anywhere are the worst they’ve been for 50 years, inequality is rife and these pigs in charge play on how thick everyone is.  A good example is this Roland Rat midget fucking the green agenda for years just to have an opposite view to that wanker Khan as that’s all they’ve got and they know it. And people will fall for it. 


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