Charlie Kirk again

sam3110

He barely touched the ball after coming on so to call it terrible is hilarious. The only chance he really got to influence anything, the defender got a toe on the ball and deflected it away from Kirk. Calling him out for not trying to go for goal from 75 yards away is fucking crazy

oohaahmortimer

Every time he got the ball he turned and passed back , keeping it simple , no risk which is what we wanted at the time or he passed the responsibility on to someone else … I know what I’m seeing and he’s pointless for us 

Cardinal Sin

He is not good enough and has proven it now in several stints. Every time he appears on the team sheet, it's a reminder that we are not good enough to get out of League One. 

Redhenry

I want to see a team and bench that Kirk isn't good enough for, please.

MarcusH26

Just looks like a player with absolutely no confidence. I'd expect he starts tomorrow as Holden will rotate things and will be interesting if he's played through the middle with probably Kanu or wide in a 433 with Edun behind him.

Still think he goes before the end of the window but a signing I don't really understand how it went so wrong. 

PragueAddick

EDamoNorthStand said:

boggzy said:

Like Simon Francis when he was here, you just get the feeling it's never going to work for him at CAFC. 

Yesterday's cameo was dreadful all round.

Hopefully we can move him on somehow.

So this is how I see it. Nobody can rewrite history and say the players time has been a roaring success at Charlton because it clearly hasn’t.

I’m sure there is every chance Kirk will move on and then we will be on to the new scapegoat.

But the bit in bold? No - not having that. Any other player repeating the performance would have barely been noticed. Every slightly controversial moment is overanalysed, every error emphasised and if he doesn’t run around like a loon he isn’t doing enough. 

It hasn’t worked out and he will move on I am sure, but yesterday was just a standard average last 10 mins sub performance.

The reaction is blown totally out of proportion.

I’m with @boggzy, and I really dont like having a pop at individual players on here. 

I just wanted to see signs of a player I - and his team mates - could trust. I didnt see any such signs, save for the one track back to our goal-line.

Whereas Edun came on for a similar period of time and basically lit that side of the pitch up. Confident, precise, energetic, creative. The contrast was pretty stark.

Dazzler21

Every time he steps on the pitch we will look at him more closely than others because he's not even had false dawns. He's been consistently below par. Even the games last season he scored or got assists in he looked disinterested for large spells. 

000__Jaaaaay__000

To think there were so many people on here so desperate to be proved right that Charlie Kirk would eventually come good. 

Said it ages ago, The bloke is a the biggest shirker you’ll ever see play football, hasn’t got the bottle it takes to be a top performer at a top club. 

SantaClaus

Someone must have banged the drum for Kirk and persuaded TS to pony up that ridiculous transfer fee and contract. Have they ever been informally identified on here?

Rothko

Never has so much bullshit been spouted about a player. 

He did a job on Saturday, including tracking back and winning a vital goal kick in the last minute.

Billy_Mix

Redhenry said:

I want to see a team and bench that Kirk isn't good enough for, please.

We already have a squad he's nowhere nearly good enough to be close to.
We ain't Jack Payne's biggest fans but sympathise with him that the shirk was seen as a better bet for the last 15 on Saturday 

Cafc43v3r

SantaClaus said:

Someone must have banged the drum for Kirk and persuaded TS to pony up that ridiculous transfer fee and contract. Have they ever been informally identified on here?

Well it pre dated the black box.

Cafc43v3r

Billy_Mix said:

Redhenry said:

I want to see a team and bench that Kirk isn't good enough for, please.

We already have a squad he's nowhere nearly good enough to be close to.
We ain't Jack Payne's biggest fans but sympathise with him that the shirk was seen as a better bet for the last 15 on Saturday 

Who was the alternative on Saturday? DJ? Someone still in nappies?

I think that is @Redhenry point.  Pony as he is he is still on the bench due to us not having anyone else available.

Talal

Cafc43v3r said:

Billy_Mix said:

Redhenry said:

I want to see a team and bench that Kirk isn't good enough for, please.

We already have a squad he's nowhere nearly good enough to be close to.
We ain't Jack Payne's biggest fans but sympathise with him that the shirk was seen as a better bet for the last 15 on Saturday 

Who was the alternative on Saturday? DJ? Someone still in nappies?

I think that is @Redhenry point.  Pony as he is he is still on the bench due to us not having anyone else available.

I'd rather Kanu was there than Kirk. He's not ready but he'll put effort in and it's more experience. 

Cafc43v3r

Talal said:

Cafc43v3r said:

Billy_Mix said:

Redhenry said:

I want to see a team and bench that Kirk isn't good enough for, please.

We already have a squad he's nowhere nearly good enough to be close to.
We ain't Jack Payne's biggest fans but sympathise with him that the shirk was seen as a better bet for the last 15 on Saturday 

Who was the alternative on Saturday? DJ? Someone still in nappies?

I think that is @Redhenry point.  Pony as he is he is still on the bench due to us not having anyone else available.

I'd rather Kanu was there than Kirk. He's not ready but he'll put effort in and it's more experience. 

And you also risk damaging his development if he isn't ready.  His long term development should be more important at this stage.

Talal

Cafc43v3r said:

Talal said:

Cafc43v3r said:

Billy_Mix said:

Redhenry said:

I want to see a team and bench that Kirk isn't good enough for, please.

We already have a squad he's nowhere nearly good enough to be close to.
We ain't Jack Payne's biggest fans but sympathise with him that the shirk was seen as a better bet for the last 15 on Saturday 

Who was the alternative on Saturday? DJ? Someone still in nappies?

I think that is @Redhenry point.  Pony as he is he is still on the bench due to us not having anyone else available.

I'd rather Kanu was there than Kirk. He's not ready but he'll put effort in and it's more experience. 

And you also risk damaging his development if he isn't ready.  His long term development should be more important at this stage.

I don't think cameo appearances are likely to damage his development given he's been involved a fair amount already. More likely if a youngster is overplayed. 

Callumcafc

DamoNorthStand said:

boggzy said:

Like Simon Francis when he was here, you just get the feeling it's never going to work for him at CAFC. 

Yesterday's cameo was dreadful all round.

Hopefully we can move him on somehow.

So this is how I see it. Nobody can rewrite history and say the players time has been a roaring success at Charlton because it clearly hasn’t.

I’m sure there is every chance Kirk will move on and then we will be on to the new scapegoat.

But the bit in bold? No - not having that. Any other player repeating the performance would have barely been noticed. Every slightly controversial moment is overanalysed, every error emphasised and if he doesn’t run around like a loon he isn’t doing enough. 

It hasn’t worked out and he will move on I am sure, but yesterday was just a standard average last 10 mins sub performance.

The reaction is blown totally out of proportion.

Nail on the head. The overreaction is just weird.

He was barely involved and when he was he didn’t do anything wrong.

- 86th minute, out wide from a Camara pass and with no support, he decided to turn back and make the simple pass so we could retain possession (he didn’t give possession away here as I’ve already seen one poster suggest)

- 89th minute, he gets the ball on the edge of the Orient box and tries a nice 1-2 with May to set up a shot at goal but before he can strike their No. 15 gets a toe on the ball to divert it away, makes him look ungainly if you didn’t see the deflection

- 91st minute, tracks the runner from a long ball all the way past Asiimwe and shepherds the ball out for a goal kick, Dobson comes over and says well done mate

- 93rd minute, receives a throw-in from Asiimwe, tackled and wins another throw-in ten yards deeper in the Orient half, receives the next throw but crowded out by two defenders in the corner and they steal the ball away

- 98th minute, the ball from the Orient free kick is cleared to his feet and rather than try to shoot from 80 yards, Kirk attempts to push the ball past the defender, it’s blocked out for a throw

- 98th minute, the resulting throw in is aimed towards Kirk, the defender outmuscles him to get a head on the ball but Kirk does enough to ensure their headed clearance is to no-one in particular and Orient struggle to retain possession




Overall, I see a player who came on with 10-15 minutes to play with strict instructions to sit on top of Asiimwe, ready to double up on any winger that received the ball in that corner.

He did that job really well, to the point where I don’t believe I saw any Orient crosses coming in from that side at all while he was on the pitch.

Could he have tried to pump the ball long towards goal? Potentially… but we ended up playing another 60 seconds after that moment anyway so he likely would’ve just been giving the ball back to them to launch another attack.

Callumcafc

One phrase to describe Kirk it seems… damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t.

randy andy

He keeps getting further and further away from goal. Last page it was 70 yards, this page he's 80 yard, by page 5 he'll be somewhere in the lower covered end!

For the record, the valley pitch is 112 yards long. He was just inside our half when the ball was taken off his toe, so around 60 yards from goal.

There's no doubt he should have shot. The keeper was 20 yards closer to our goal than Kirk was and they had no players in their own half. Best case scenario he gets lucky and scores (or another Charlton player chases it down for a tap in). Worst case scenario an Orient defender gets to the ball and they regain possession deep in their own half, still a better outcome than what actually happened.

ross1

I am either lucky or not, but I have not seen enough of Kirk to make a decision of his ability, but reading this thread I need not bother, he is useless according to most, except Callumcafc. Can he really be that bad, can DH really see something that most on here do not?

Callumcafc

“Just inside our half” - think he was further back than you remember

He’s about 35 yards from our goal line (based on the way the pitch grass has been cut), and almost 20 yards away from the half way line.

On the angle, I still maintain it’s at least 75 yards from the Orient goal.

ken_shabby

SantaClaus said:

Someone must have banged the drum for Kirk and persuaded TS to pony up that ridiculous transfer fee and contract. Have they ever been informally identified on here?

Yeah, it was Albie Morgan!

ken_shabby

Just to add, he's a player who for me has had a bit of bad luck, and hasn't really shown enough in my opinion to make me think he'd be part of a promotion winning squad, but some of the reactions on here to saturday are just hysterical. He didn't do a great deal, but he did little wrong. Shepharding the ball out was nicely done, his chance on the edge of the box was never a chance as the defender put the ball away from him and the 75 yard opportunity...? Well, if he'd given it a go and the ball hadn't reached their area, imagine the reaction on here. No, he's not the player we hoped we'd signed, and it's probably better to part ways here, but some of the mistakes he is deemed to make are basically imaginary.

Cafc43v3r

Talal said:

Cafc43v3r said:

Talal said:

Cafc43v3r said:

Billy_Mix said:

Redhenry said:

I want to see a team and bench that Kirk isn't good enough for, please.

We already have a squad he's nowhere nearly good enough to be close to.
We ain't Jack Payne's biggest fans but sympathise with him that the shirk was seen as a better bet for the last 15 on Saturday 

Who was the alternative on Saturday? DJ? Someone still in nappies?

I think that is @Redhenry point.  Pony as he is he is still on the bench due to us not having anyone else available.

I'd rather Kanu was there than Kirk. He's not ready but he'll put effort in and it's more experience. 

And you also risk damaging his development if he isn't ready.  His long term development should be more important at this stage.

I don't think cameo appearances are likely to damage his development given he's been involved a fair amount already. More likely if a youngster is overplayed. 

I think if he was ready we would have seen more of him already.  It's one we have to trust the club on.  I do wonder if there is someone in the u21s that is ready but just isn't as high potential as Kanu that would be less of a long term risk than him?

PaddyP17

kinveachyaddick said:

Had a great chance to silence the doubters by pinging one in from our own half with their keeper stranded but didn’t even try. Have to agree with the majority - total waste of space 

"Didn't try to score from a low-percentage position about 60 yards out, therefore he is a waste of space" is an absolutely mental take

Captain Peacock

Just to jump on the (band)wagon.
Best to depart the train spotter's and alight at his previous destination with The Railwaymen.
Alterative destinations on his journey Swindon or Doncaster, alas Darlington no longer an option.

sam3110

randy andy said:

He keeps getting further and further away from goal. Last page it was 70 yards, this page he's 80 yard, by page 5 he'll be somewhere in the lower covered end!

For the record, the valley pitch is 112 yards long. He was just inside our half when the ball was taken off his toe, so around 60 yards from goal.

There's no doubt he should have shot. The keeper was 20 yards closer to our goal than Kirk was and they had no players in their own half. Best case scenario he gets lucky and scores (or another Charlton player chases it down for a tap in). Worst case scenario an Orient defender gets to the ball and they regain possession deep in their own half, still a better outcome than what actually happened.

Why did they score then? Oh wait no they didn't!

Redhenry

Cafc43v3r said:

Billy_Mix said:

Redhenry said:

I want to see a team and bench that Kirk isn't good enough for, please.

We already have a squad he's nowhere nearly good enough to be close to.
We ain't Jack Payne's biggest fans but sympathise with him that the shirk was seen as a better bet for the last 15 on Saturday 

Who was the alternative on Saturday? DJ? Someone still in nappies?

I think that is @Redhenry point.  Pony as he is he is still on the bench due to us not having anyone else available.

Correct @Cafc43v3r, we need a couple more quality additions, a striker is a must...

robinofottershaw

IMO to achieve promotion we need a squad with sufficient depth that we have a couple of game changers on the bench who can either maintain/increase the tempo as the starters begin to tire (as Camara did on Saturday), or alternatively help us come back when we are a goal behind (e.g. Chuks for the handful of games he might be available during a season).

McGrandles, Payne, DJ and Kirk just feel like squad players who might do a job for you and perhaps help see out a game, but they are unlikely to do something special. It felt like Ipswich had so many good options off the bench last year. I'm not particularly anti-Kirk, so not overly critical of his cameo on Saturday, he just doesn't show enough quality for me, either when he starts or comes off the bench. The same goes for DJ. Payne always looks like he tries to put a shift in and therefore I think worth keeping.

cantersaddick

I think people underestimate the size of the squad we will need for a full season promotion push. Not every one of the players used will be top of league 1 quality but they have to fill a gap.

Think back to 2019 promotion. The number of players with significant numbers of appearances but often forgotten/ not considered a central part of the squad or even good enough.

Marshall 29 appearances
Fosu 30
Reeves 32
Igor 23
Ward 11
Morgan 16
Ajose 16
Lapslie 32
Reeco H-F 12

These players were not first choice or even first reserve in a lot of cases. But all played a role over the season. We will need that. Kirk could do similar for us.