Patrick Casey - discussion of current situation p7

AS1987

Chunes said:

Still without a club. Bizarre situation for a young player who needs to be playing / training. 

From what I've been told, his agent is a family member, who was unaware of the rules regarding compensation if a contract is rejected. The family member advised him to turn down the contract we had offered, thinking that several non-league clubs would snap him up.

Of course, they won't because they don't want to pay the compensation.

Crispywood

AS1987 said:

Chunes said:

Still without a club. Bizarre situation for a young player who needs to be playing / training. 

From what I've been told, his agent is a family member, who was unaware of the rules regarding compensation if a contract is rejected. The family member advised him to turn down the contract we had offered, thinking that several non-league clubs would snap him up.

Of course, they won't because they don't want to pay the compensation.

shocking if that’s the case you would hope anyone in his circle would have known such an important rule that impacted his future. 

Can understand why he wanted to leave but he would have been humbled if he thought teams would be willing to spend compensation on a youngster with injury issues based on one good short stint in the 6th tier of English football 

fenaddick

Crispywood said:

AS1987 said:

Chunes said:

Still without a club. Bizarre situation for a young player who needs to be playing / training. 

From what I've been told, his agent is a family member, who was unaware of the rules regarding compensation if a contract is rejected. The family member advised him to turn down the contract we had offered, thinking that several non-league clubs would snap him up.

Of course, they won't because they don't want to pay the compensation.

shocking if that’s the case you would hope anyone in his circle would have known such an important rule that impacted his future. 

Can understand why he wanted to leave but he would have been humbled if he thought teams would be willing to spend compensation on a youngster with injury issues based on one good short stint in the 6th tier of English football 

If true it's way worse than the supposed JRS agent issue and that was an almighty balls up

AberystwythAddick

What happens now then? Is there a time limit on how long we’re due compensation? Or can he just not sign for a club again until we’ve been paid? 

LargeAddick

AberystwythAddick said:

What happens now then? Is there a time limit on how long we’re due compensation? Or can he just not sign for a club again until we’ve been paid? 

You’d assume the latter would be the case. I wonder if our offer is still on the table.

Addick Addict

I believe that no compensation fee is due if he moves abroad. I'm sure that there are plenty of places where he could get a game on that basis.  

fenaddick

Addick Addict said:

I believe that no compensation fee is due if he moves abroad. I'm sure that there are plenty of places where he could get a game on that basis.  

It's a lesser fee, not no fee isn't it? Pretty sure that's what happened with Aribo

Addick Addict

fenaddick said:

Addick Addict said:

I believe that no compensation fee is due if he moves abroad. I'm sure that there are plenty of places where he could get a game on that basis.  

It's a lesser fee, not no fee isn't it? Pretty sure that's what happened with Aribo

That's correct and it amounted to £300,000 for Aribo. The issue is that, unlike Aribo who made 99 appearances for CAFC, Casey has has had two minutes of first team football. Yes any committee will probably take into account the length of time Casey was with us but we aren't going to be getting six figures if he moves abroad. 

Chris_from_Sidcup

Pretty sure he could get a Scottish or even Irish league side. Compensation would be minimal.

MarcusH26

Was convinced he'd get a National League/National League South deal somewhere but if his agent has completely fucked up that explains why that's not happened yet. Have no idea what the compensation fee would be however.

ForeverAddickted

MarcusH26 said:

Was convinced he'd get a National League/National League South deal somewhere but if his agent has completely fucked up that explains why that's not happened yet. Have no idea what the compensation fee would be however.

We surely wouldn't be such arseholes to deny him a move to the National League South either, and deny him the ability to keep playing, over a such a small sum?

Can't see it being more than five figures?

AberystwythAddick

ForeverAddickted said:

MarcusH26 said:

Was convinced he'd get a National League/National League South deal somewhere but if his agent has completely fucked up that explains why that's not happened yet. Have no idea what the compensation fee would be however.

We surely wouldn't be such arseholes to deny him a move to the National League South either, and deny him the ability to keep playing, over a such a small sum?

Can't see it being more than five figures?

They’ve  spent money on his development though, that wasn’t out of the goodness of their hearts. 

The club will be looking at recouping anything they can surely, as is there right. 

It sucks for Casey but at the end of the day football clubs are a business and not a charity.

DubaiCAFC

Surely if Charlton think highly of him, could they not have high-sell as the compensation instead of cash!

fenaddick

DubaiCAFC said:

Surely if Charlton think highly of him, could they not have high-sell as the compensation instead of cash!

A sell on would be part of the compensation package already I believe

ForeverAddickted

AberystwythAddick said:

ForeverAddickted said:

MarcusH26 said:

Was convinced he'd get a National League/National League South deal somewhere but if his agent has completely fucked up that explains why that's not happened yet. Have no idea what the compensation fee would be however.

We surely wouldn't be such arseholes to deny him a move to the National League South either, and deny him the ability to keep playing, over a such a small sum?

Can't see it being more than five figures?

They’ve  spent money on his development though, that wasn’t out of the goodness of their hearts. 

The club will be looking at recouping anything they can surely, as is there right. 

It sucks for Casey but at the end of the day football clubs are a business and not a charity.

True... and I'd agree if he had EFL interest... Yet at the same time, Football is a cut throat business, and we'd have no trouble cutting him loose if he couldn't make the grade... The only aspect I'd be wary of, is that he replicates Adigun, we waiver the compensation fee so he can go and play in the National League South, within a year, he's then back playing in League One / League Two and we've been "conned" out of the compensation fee a bit.

SantaClaus

ForeverAddickted said:

MarcusH26 said:

Was convinced he'd get a National League/National League South deal somewhere but if his agent has completely fucked up that explains why that's not happened yet. Have no idea what the compensation fee would be however.

We surely wouldn't be such arseholes to deny him a move to the National League South either, and deny him the ability to keep playing, over a such a small sum?

Can't see it being more than five figures?

I don't see what the club's done wrong. Charlton didn't push Casey to go down this route and the last thing it wants is to set a precedent for other young players to follow.

Swisdom

another example of a player being poorly advised.  FIFA tried to regulate it to stop this sort of stuff happening but it's still a shambles and FIFA don't seem to care too much.  It's almost like the whole "cleaning up the agent business" they tried 3 or 4 years ago was just a money making scheme for them and it actually has NO teeth at all.

Players will suffer because there are still cowboys out there and agents and players will remain unrealistic about their worth.

The longer he is without a club the quicker he will be forgotten and it becomes a wasted career

benjest1989

Casey joined Charlton at the U9 level, meaning we can claim for over a decade of youth development costs

Todds_right_hook

Let me get this right. We offered him a new deal, he didn’t sign it, he is now unemployed and technically unemployable as his level is tier 6 where teams can’t afford the development fee.

this is why agents need to be regulated and work for their clients and not for their pay outs

J BLOCK

benjest1989 said:

Casey joined Charlton at the U9 level, meaning we can claim for over a decade of youth development costs

And so we should. 

Swisdom

it can be a negotiation as to what we would demand.  we can agree a reduced compensation but a larger sell-on fee but that needs to be agreed.  If not a prospective club wishing to sign his would be left with an independednt tribunal deciding the fee and that might be an issue for them assuming he's at that lower level.

This has been handled poorly from his perspective and jeopardises his career right now.

killerandflash

In reality NLS clubs rarely make much transfer income anyway. It's not as if he'd be given a 3 year deal, with a realistic chance of the sell on clause being activated if he does well.

I imagine most NLS clubs would offer him a 1 year deal, and after that if he does well he might jump to a NL club etc

NabySarr

Would our offer still need to be on the table for us to be able to claim the compensation? Would feel massively unfair if he now can’t sign for us but also can’t sign for anyone without them paying us 

So still a chance he re-signs here with our offer now that he’s probably realised he isn’t going to get a deal elsewhere 

fenaddick

NabySarr said:

Would our offer still need to be on the table for us to be able to claim the compensation? Would feel massively unfair if he now can’t sign for us but also can’t sign for anyone without them paying us 

So still a chance he re-signs here with our offer now that he’s probably realised he isn’t going to get a deal elsewhere 

I think we just have to have offered him a deal equivalent or better to his previous deal. If he rejects it then that's on him, especially as he's still young enough to play U21 football

Crispywood

NabySarr said:

Would our offer still need to be on the table for us to be able to claim the compensation? Would feel massively unfair if he now can’t sign for us but also can’t sign for anyone without them paying us 

So still a chance he re-signs here with our offer now that he’s probably realised he isn’t going to get a deal elsewhere 

No he just had to have rejected the contract from us along as it minimum matched the same wage as his previous deal.

if we put a deal out to him now he could still re-sign with us but considering he turned down an initial contract I doubt either side would be willing to make it happen 

RugbyAddick

I’m no football agent, but last season, we gave Toby Bower a year extension on his deal and sent him out on loan to the NLS for the season. 

We didn’t have to give him that extension… the club probably knew there was a slim chance he would make it with us, but at least he had the chance to get first team exposure so that he could have a path in the game after Charlton. 

Casey had a good stint last season until his injury. I’ve got a mate who is a Dorking ST holder who said Casey was levels above the NLS. His performances for Dorking, plus the fact he was injured probably warranted another year. 

We also tend to try and keep youngsters with longer-term injuries on the books to help them back from injury, and back to full fitness. We done the exact same with Manu Wales at the end of last season. Lad hardly kicked a ball last season due to a long term injury. 

The club prides themselves on the amount of kids who make a career within the game, because it looks great when trying to recruit players into the academy set up. 

If (and it’s a big ‘if’) Casey’s agent/family wanted Casey playing regularly, then surely the only option following the contract offer, is to sign the contract and go out on loan to NL/NLS. Ridiculous move for the player. 

The club cannot be blamed in this situation. 

Whinger

We did similar with Seydil Touré who had nearly two years out injured.

sam3110

Just sounds like Casey/his agent thought they knew better and thought they'd get a better deal elsewhere and it's backfired. That's life

Dazzler21

I've heard things. He's definitely got great raw natural talent, but I think he struggles with a lot of very basic instructions... He won't make the step up at least not without excessive  levels of handholding - I don't think we should do that if it hinders other prospects and as a result, I don't think we should keep him. I'd hope we cut him loose. 

LargeAddick

Dazzler21 said:

I've heard things. He's definitely got great raw natural talent, but I think he struggles with a lot of very basic instructions... He won't make the step up at least not without excessive  levels of handholding - I don't think we should do that if it hinders other prospects and as a result, I don't think we should keep him. I'd hope we cut him loose. 

We have cut him loose.