some of you are really beyond the pail with your comments with regard to AB. For many years his word has been sought but now when his view is a little negative you turn on him - shame on you all.
Like AB I am concerned about the new owners and will remain so all this season, I thought TS was all bullshit from the beginning and didn't trust the spivs, as for this lot I really don't yet know who they are or what they represent but time will tell and during that time I won't trust them until they prove otherwise.
I do feel that this forum is descending into a back biting bitchy place which I really can not be bothered with, I'll do the stats and I'll keep an eye for those who are battling cancer, for the rest of it you, at present, you can keep it. EDIT a few hours later yes my comments were a bit OTT but it has been a bad day, However I will view the new owners with scepticism until proven otherwise but of course support Holden and the team
I don't know if it's just me not looking in the right places but I saw it mentioned in the Dossier interview with Methven that Joshua Friedman had previous football ownership experience but I can't find anything to back this up? Was he a minority owner of the Houston Dynamo with Brener or something?
There isn't anything wrong in what Airman is saying and we should be able to respectfully disagree. I don't think it is right people attack him personally, especially seeing as what he has done for the club. My disagreement is not that I am right or wrong, but more we might as well be optimistic at this point and an optimistic fan base can be helpful to the club.
I have been worn out by the club too but I think it is right to give any new owner a chance but if the alarm bells start to ring we should be ready to hear them. It is too early one way or the other at this point.
Seems to me any owner unless a fan has an ulterior motive.
It might be to try and make a profit it might be ego it might be PR.
We have no choice but to accept it and hope that we can get out of L1 for now before they lose interest. I think all most are saying is be cautious.
Think of it like a player transfer. They come and go. Some are one season wonders others are flops.
Football is on a dangerous financial downward spiral in my opinion. That may play to our advantage if we can stay in business but hurt the bigger clubs more.
I notice in the rush to embrace the new ownership that reuniting the Valley with the Club is no longer considered a measurement of success. In fact it seems to have been forgotten altogether by our fans and wasn’t mentioned at all in CM’s interview with Prague.
Airman’s guesstimate of £100M over the next few years to deliver a team stable in the Championship with a Cat A academy seems realistic. Comparisons with Luton/Plymouth/whoever else are unnecessary, we know how much it costs in losses to run Charlton Athletic each year - under multiple ownerships that figure has been in the region of £10M p/a. Unless you think Charlie Methvan is a commercial savant and can run us much more efficiently or is about to tap into Wrexham style revenue streams I would continue to use that figure as a guide. Add onto that the investment needed to turn a team that finished mid-table in League One last season into a regular Championship team and you aren’t far of £100M in required investment over 5 years.
What I would say is positive is that CM’s interview with Prague seemed to paint him as someone who understands the financial reality and he didn’t offer silly “what to the fans want to hear” statements that spoke of goals that are clearly unattainable in the short term. That puts this ownership group ahead of their recent predecessors.
Just your average Charlton fan here.And Airman Brown has his opinions and I, for one would never disrespect those opinions . We are all rubbed up the wrong way these last 10 or more years and are allowed our doubts and our optimism. I’ll just be glad to be back at the valley, seeing the fellows around me cheering on the team. The custodians, which is what the owners really are, can never be our friends as they will do what ultimately will be in their interests. There are always exceptions to this. Hopefully they will all want what this club wants which is success. I just hope that they can afford whatever it costs. sometimes you just have to let go of the things over which you have no control.
Ok but why is Varney better than the new lot @Airman Brown you still haven't answered that.
Is it because he is a lifelong CAFC fan, like his Dad? Or because as CEO 1997-2008 he grew turnover from £4m to £42m? Launched Valley Express, Target 10,000, Kid for a Quid, Valley Gold, developed and expanded the Valley repeatedly, selling out at every step until we had a full house 27,000 Premiership Stadium? Did I mention over-seeing set-up and development of CACT? Oh, and he returned as Exec Vice Chairman in 2011, recruited Chris Powell and got backing for him to win promotion with 101 points?
Yeah but apart from that he’s no better than Southall right? .
I don’t but this “oversold” viewpoint. Nobody with money would just take the words of anyone else without taking out some due diligence. TS for all his faults I don’t think was stupid enough to not realise the true costs when he set out. He actually spent good money for league one on players but the money was spent badly. He lost interest once his misses was binned out and all the negativity started due tightly to his running of things. This mob won’t have be going into this blindly unaware of potential costs. There will be agreed budgets set the difficulties will come when a
I think if you did proper due diligence on investing in a league one football club with a view to getting a return on your money you would walk away. Which means people who invest either believe they will buck the trend somehow and be successful, invest as a plaything / vanity project or don’t actually do the necessary due diligence and believe that of others.
Hopefully we’ve got investors with smart plans and deep pockets and a good slice of luck. Interesting times ahead.
I am more hopeful than Airman seems in relation to the takeover but I thought that the Sandgard era would had been a lot better than it transpired
I have supported Charlton for over 60 years and always will but couldn’t agree more with his sentiment that we don’t just accept anything the ownership says or does. I think that our history shows that if we as a fan base accepted that we may no longer have had a club to support
And finally in regards to Peter Varney no one can argue that he is a true supporter and his work has been exemplary and dragged the club up. I would have total faith in a Varney led takeover but don’t think he is the only person who can take us forward again. Maybe this new consortium will I certainly hope so
I don't know if it's just me not looking in the right places but I saw it mentioned in the Dossier interview with Methven that Joshua Friedman had previous football ownership experience but I can't find anything to back this up? Was he a minority owner of the Houston Dynamo with Brener or something?
Guys, I say this nicely. I came on here to read the takeover news and all I see is fricking "in house" fighting, calling out others on here for their opinions. This is a takeover thread, not a playground. Please take away your in house fighting" elsewhere. There are battling with cancer, there is so much crap going on in the world, people with mental health issues. Grow up. Please. It is a forum. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but enough of this calling out people. Behave and be nice to each other. We all have different views. Respect and love one another.
some of you are really beyond the pail with your comments with regard to AB. For many years his word has been sought but now when his view is a little negative you turn on him - shame on you all.
Like AB I am concerned about the new owners and will remain so all this season, I thought TS was all bullshit from the beginning and didn't trust the spivs, as for this lot I really don't yet know who they are or what they represent but time will tell and during that time I won't trust them until they prove otherwise.
I do feel that this forum is descending into a back biting bitchy place which I really can not be bothered with, I'll do the stats and I'll keep an eye for those who are battling cancer, for the rest of it you, at present, you can keep it.
Shame on you all? Why? Why is airman untouchable? People questioned him today and he was rude in his responses and didn't answer questions.
We needed those ‘support the shirt crap’ supporters when we wanted to get back to the Valley or we wouldn’t have had a club to bring back.
Every supporter matters, no matter how they choose to support our mighty club, imho.
You are so correct in that the likes of you, me, Airman and a few thousand others you made the slog to Selhurst effectively kept the club going by supporting the shirt
That did not mean that when we were there we should not have chanted it was a load of shit and the owners called out for their actions. There were parts of the supporters base (including the Supprters Club) who thought we needed to accept it, that was wrong.
That’s because they were scared they were going to lose their club altogether. A view I understood and why I could never, at the time, have a go at them for it. It worked out & everyone was happy, thank heavens. I completely understand why people feel differently about our club than I do. Doesn’t make them any less of a supporter imho. And therefore shouldn’t be labelled as such.
Ok but why is Varney better than the new lot @Airman Brown you still haven't answered that.
Is it because he is a lifelong CAFC fan, like his Dad? Or because as CEO 1997-2008 he grew turnover from £4m to £42m? Launched Valley Express, Target 10,000, Kid for a Quid, Valley Gold, developed and expanded the Valley repeatedly, selling out at every step until we had a full house 27,000 Premiership Stadium? Did I mention over-seeing set-up and development of CACT? Oh, and he returned as Exec Vice Chairman in 2011, recruited Chris Powell and got backing for him to win promotion with 101 points?
Curbs for manager and Darren Bent up front then next season yeah?
Did any of that cost money? I presume so.
Was the club profitable back then?
Was football as a whole a complete basket case like it is now, 20-25 years ago?
Does turnover mean anything at that time when turnover in football as a whole was growing exponentially as a result of increasing sponsorship, TV Rights deals and money overall coming into the sport? Arguably he orchestrated us losing our premiership status at the worst possible time, with the big bucks coming into the sport the very next season, with us having never recovered from that, but we'll gloss over that part of the story I guess
I'm very skeptical about the long term from these new owners also. Like Airman Brown, I can't see how it works for them, but short term it's looking good as they're clearly ready to invest for this season and who knows, maybe the next. I also worry what happens when they realise its not stacking up financially.
I felt much more positive when Sandgaard took over because he seemed to be willing to spend money for his passion of football, not for a return. And look how that turned out.
I guess just enjoy having a season where we might compete.
I don't follow your logic.
Your assessment is based solely on what you think the new owner's motives are. If TS was seriously minted and said he would fund Charlton for ever regardless of losses and never sell the club because he was passionate about football, we would all be positive I'm sure - but it didn't happen.
I was positive about TS, and had great hopes, probably because he saved us from extinction. But on reflection, you can't ignore the fact he was a one man band whose wealth came from a single source and he could only fund Charlton buy selling shares in his own company - his children's inheritance. Illiquidity has caused TS to sell up, not a loss of passion. He clearly wanted to make a profit, not a loss, but couldn't sustain losses over more than a couple of years.
That illiquidity is less of a risk if you have a number of investors with a significant combined wealth. That's a plus for the new investors, if what we hear is true..
The new investors, according to CM, have simply got a long term horizon for a return on their investment. To me that's more credible a statement than a 5 year horizon for Premiership and Champions League.
For a wealthy investor making a small investment relative to his wealth he is not reliant on the success of that investment to keep him wealthy (for TS it clearly was).
As to not "seeing how it works" do you get how the National Lottery works? As I posted recently, it's all relative. Why do people buy a £2 lottery ticket with a 300 million:1 chance of success? Losing £2 over one week is no different to losing £10m over ten years if you can afford to. Having to chase your investment with top ups is comparable to being addicted to buying a lottery ticket every week chasing your dream, when you don't win the previous week.
What is said, and whether you believe what is said, are two different things. At this stage there is no more reason to disbelieve what we are hearing via CM than disbelieve what TS said when he came on the scene and can't see why anyone thinksTS was more credible.
FWIW I am just as skeptical as anyone when it comes to new owners, and recognise the fact that we're onc.... fourth bitten, fifth shy. But I think the constant stream of negativity from some on here, and forgive me for pointing out that Airman was at the forefront of that, was completely unnecessary and had ulterior motives to it, which I didn't like.
Varney was undoubtedly the best thing that happened to this club, but to completely gloss over what went wrong under him is folly. And to suggest that he can waltz in and change everything and be just as successful again, is also folly. The world as a whole, and also the world of football, has changed almost beyond all recognition from the late 90's to now.
In 1998 the most expensive player in the world was Denilson, signed for 21.5m, today that gets you Granit Xhaka.
1997 the new EPL TV deal was £670m, the next TV deal is projected to break £10b.
My umbrage with what Airman and others are saying is that apparently it's all too easy to come in and make a success of it, but at the same time only to those who have done it before, which makes no sense to me.
Why can't the new guys make a success of it?
Other than "because we don't like them", because as I've found out many times you don't have to like someone to admire and acknowledge what they can accomplish, and to claim they'll fail, just because ESI did (who were a bunch of chancers and grifters who never had the money to begin with) and because TS did (who was and is an egotistical maniac with a complex and a mean streak not seen in the public eye) is complete nonsense.
I'm sorry if people feel like I've somehow hounded him out, that was not my intention, my intention is to dig in and find out why people are so against the new guys, other than the fact Methven made a tit of himself on Sunderland Til I Die, and the rest aren't all vehement Charlton fans, that seem reluctant to step into the limelight.
Anyway, I'm glad it all seems to be done and dusted, and obviously we'll wait and see what the future holds, but I am going to be at The Valley watching on regardless.
Christ Airman, how about an ounce of positivity for once?
See also Spivs, Duchatelet, Southall and Sandgaard. It’s always the same - why don’t we just discount the evidence and pose for selfies? Anyone who doesn’t is “negative”. Then people are surprised when it all turns to shit.
If it doesn’t appear to stack up, the chances are it won’t. I’m just asking the questions.
What doesn't add up? Sometimes I feel that unless it's your mate varney being involved it's automatically bad.
Other owners with different business models and ideas to what you are used to, can actually work.
Of course they can, just like Spivs, Duchatelet, Southall and Sandgaard who I believe Airman called foul on 3 of them before they'd almost walked through the door including the spivs who his "mate Varney" was instrumental in bringing to the club. None of us know what the future is with this bizarre make up of investors but my gut feeling isn't a positive one
Ok but why is Varney better than the new lot @Airman Brown you still haven't answered that.
Is it because he is a lifelong CAFC fan, like his Dad? Or because as CEO 1997-2008 he grew turnover from £4m to £42m? Launched Valley Express, Target 10,000, Kid for a Quid, Valley Gold, developed and expanded the Valley repeatedly, selling out at every step until we had a full house 27,000 Premiership Stadium? Did I mention over-seeing set-up and development of CACT? Oh, and he returned as Exec Vice Chairman in 2011, recruited Chris Powell and got backing for him to win promotion with 101 points?
Curbs for manager and Darren Bent up front then next season yeah?
Did any of that cost money? I presume so.
Was the club profitable back then?
Was football as a whole a complete basket case like it is now, 20-25 years ago?
Does turnover mean anything at that time when turnover in football as a whole was growing exponentially as a result of increasing sponsorship, TV Rights deals and money overall coming into the sport? Arguably he orchestrated us losing our premiership status at the worst possible time, with the big bucks coming into the sport the very next season, with us having never recovered from that, but we'll gloss over that part of the story I guess
Ask your Dad.
Why, does he know more about the day to day running of the club than anyone else? News to me, and probably news to him too
Inevitably the interview and the motivations behind it are already being slagged off in certain quarters in the usual style, so I'm posting as a reminder the original intro article which explains that this was all CM's own initiative, The link to the main article is at the bottom of that one. When you get to it, you'll see the banner image is a mess, bear with us, I may need techie help with that.
I think the main benefit is an insight into how the structure will work (assuming he is still able to speak for all significant consortium members). There's more than will be possible to put into a club PR statement even if they wanted to. But there were interesting things he asked to keep off the record, and other things we had no time for, such as the future of the real estate. As you will see, he really wanted to talk about him at Sunderland which I managed to avoid until we got to the end of the designated running time, and Zoom terminated that abruptly
Looking forward to see what people make of it
Thanks Prague - interesting.
I guess my more emotional reaction is one of mild disappointment although I'm not sure what else I was expecting. Maybe it's because a lot of this has leaked already and I was hoping for something extra. Maybe I was hoping for a clearer statement of ambitious intent but, again, that is probably an unrealistic expectation. The rest of this transfer window and the next will tell us more.
My head has some concerns:
- I'm worried that there will be no one Head of Charlton - we'll have Rodwell, Scott and Warwick all having seemingly equal status but potentially different visions, missions, objectives - whatever you want to call it - with great potential for core disagreements - who pulls the whole thing together? CM paints a picture of himself as some sort of Walsingham type character whispering in the investor's ears which, again, has the potential for major disruption going forward
- Would like to know a LOT more about Global Football Partners Ltd. Is this just a CAFC vehicle or does it have a wider remit and where does CAFC fit into it?
- CM himself says that GB & JF's investments are relatively small beer for them so that would make it very easy for these individuals to walk away yet I guess we are hugely/solely reliant on them to fund short/medium term losses.
So, my jury is still out, partly driven by our painful experiences in recent years. I'm not in the Airman camp of saying it will fail but I would want to understand a lot more before I adorn my bedroom with Gabriel Brener/Josh Friedman duvets and pillows.
It would be helpful to understand what people think “success” looks like.
Well for now, getting back to the championship. And from Prague's interview sounds like they are alligned with that thought and ambition. It's pretty much all we can ask for isn't it? Wild claims of Europe in 5; years are hopefully a thing of the past. Some of what Methven said actually made a lot of sense to me. A realistic plan with competent people will do me all day long.
What would success in the short term look like to you?
I think @Covered_End_Lad pretty much nailed it, although I don’t see category one status as an end in itself and I don’t think a top-six finish in L1 and PO failure is good enough in 23/24 (meaning as it would five straight seasons in L1).
PO failure? Sorry, I don't recall what that means?
Inevitably the interview and the motivations behind it are already being slagged off in certain quarters in the usual style, so I'm posting as a reminder the original intro article which explains that this was all CM's own initiative, The link to the main article is at the bottom of that one. When you get to it, you'll see the banner image is a mess, bear with us, I may need techie help with that.
I think the main benefit is an insight into how the structure will work (assuming he is still able to speak for all significant consortium members). There's more than will be possible to put into a club PR statement even if they wanted to. But there were interesting things he asked to keep off the record, and other things we had no time for, such as the future of the real estate. As you will see, he really wanted to talk about him at Sunderland which I managed to avoid until we got to the end of the designated running time, and Zoom terminated that abruptly
Looking forward to see what people make of it
Thanks Prague - interesting.
I guess my more emotional reaction is one of mild disappointment although I'm not sure what else I was expecting. Maybe it's because a lot of this has leaked already and I was hoping for something extra. Maybe I was hoping for a clearer statement of ambitious intent but, again, that is probably an unrealistic expectation. The rest of this transfer window and the next will tell us more.
My head has some concerns:
- I'm worried that there will be no one Head of Charlton - we'll have Rodwell, Scott and Warwick all having seemingly equal status but potentially different visions, missions, objectives - whatever you want to call it - with great potential for core disagreements - who pulls the whole thing together? CM paints a picture of himself as some sort of Walsingham type character whispering in the investor's ears which, again, has the potential for major disruption going forward
- Would like to know a LOT more about Global Football Partners Ltd. Is this just a CAFC vehicle or does it have a wider remit and where does CAFC fit into it?
- CM himself says that GB & JF's investments are relatively small beer for them so that would make it very easy for these individuals to walk away yet I guess we are hugely/solely reliant on them to fund short/medium term losses.
So, my jury is still out, partly driven by our painful experiences in recent years. I'm not in the Airman camp of saying it will fail but I would want to understand a lot more before I adorn my bedroom with Gabriel Brener/Josh Friedman duvets and pillows.
It would be helpful to understand what people think “success” looks like.
Well for now, getting back to the championship. And from Prague's interview sounds like they are alligned with that thought and ambition. It's pretty much all we can ask for isn't it? Wild claims of Europe in 5; years are hopefully a thing of the past. Some of what Methven said actually made a lot of sense to me. A realistic plan with competent people will do me all day long.
What would success in the short term look like to you?
I think @Covered_End_Lad pretty much nailed it, although I don’t see category one status as an end in itself and I don’t think a top-six finish in L1 and PO failure is good enough in 23/24 (meaning as it would five straight seasons in L1).
PO failure? Sorry, I don't recall what that means?
Inevitably the interview and the motivations behind it are already being slagged off in certain quarters in the usual style, so I'm posting as a reminder the original intro article which explains that this was all CM's own initiative, The link to the main article is at the bottom of that one. When you get to it, you'll see the banner image is a mess, bear with us, I may need techie help with that.
I think the main benefit is an insight into how the structure will work (assuming he is still able to speak for all significant consortium members). There's more than will be possible to put into a club PR statement even if they wanted to. But there were interesting things he asked to keep off the record, and other things we had no time for, such as the future of the real estate. As you will see, he really wanted to talk about him at Sunderland which I managed to avoid until we got to the end of the designated running time, and Zoom terminated that abruptly
Looking forward to see what people make of it
Thanks Prague - interesting.
I guess my more emotional reaction is one of mild disappointment although I'm not sure what else I was expecting. Maybe it's because a lot of this has leaked already and I was hoping for something extra. Maybe I was hoping for a clearer statement of ambitious intent but, again, that is probably an unrealistic expectation. The rest of this transfer window and the next will tell us more.
My head has some concerns:
- I'm worried that there will be no one Head of Charlton - we'll have Rodwell, Scott and Warwick all having seemingly equal status but potentially different visions, missions, objectives - whatever you want to call it - with great potential for core disagreements - who pulls the whole thing together? CM paints a picture of himself as some sort of Walsingham type character whispering in the investor's ears which, again, has the potential for major disruption going forward
- Would like to know a LOT more about Global Football Partners Ltd. Is this just a CAFC vehicle or does it have a wider remit and where does CAFC fit into it?
- CM himself says that GB & JF's investments are relatively small beer for them so that would make it very easy for these individuals to walk away yet I guess we are hugely/solely reliant on them to fund short/medium term losses.
So, my jury is still out, partly driven by our painful experiences in recent years. I'm not in the Airman camp of saying it will fail but I would want to understand a lot more before I adorn my bedroom with Gabriel Brener/Josh Friedman duvets and pillows.
It would be helpful to understand what people think “success” looks like.
Well for now, getting back to the championship. And from Prague's interview sounds like they are alligned with that thought and ambition. It's pretty much all we can ask for isn't it? Wild claims of Europe in 5; years are hopefully a thing of the past. Some of what Methven said actually made a lot of sense to me. A realistic plan with competent people will do me all day long.
What would success in the short term look like to you?
I think @Covered_End_Lad pretty much nailed it, although I don’t see category one status as an end in itself and I don’t think a top-six finish in L1 and PO failure is good enough in 23/24 (meaning as it would five straight seasons in L1).
PO failure? Sorry, I don't recall what that means?
Inevitably the interview and the motivations behind it are already being slagged off in certain quarters in the usual style, so I'm posting as a reminder the original intro article which explains that this was all CM's own initiative, The link to the main article is at the bottom of that one. When you get to it, you'll see the banner image is a mess, bear with us, I may need techie help with that.
I think the main benefit is an insight into how the structure will work (assuming he is still able to speak for all significant consortium members). There's more than will be possible to put into a club PR statement even if they wanted to. But there were interesting things he asked to keep off the record, and other things we had no time for, such as the future of the real estate. As you will see, he really wanted to talk about him at Sunderland which I managed to avoid until we got to the end of the designated running time, and Zoom terminated that abruptly
Looking forward to see what people make of it
Thanks Prague - interesting.
I guess my more emotional reaction is one of mild disappointment although I'm not sure what else I was expecting. Maybe it's because a lot of this has leaked already and I was hoping for something extra. Maybe I was hoping for a clearer statement of ambitious intent but, again, that is probably an unrealistic expectation. The rest of this transfer window and the next will tell us more.
My head has some concerns:
- I'm worried that there will be no one Head of Charlton - we'll have Rodwell, Scott and Warwick all having seemingly equal status but potentially different visions, missions, objectives - whatever you want to call it - with great potential for core disagreements - who pulls the whole thing together? CM paints a picture of himself as some sort of Walsingham type character whispering in the investor's ears which, again, has the potential for major disruption going forward
- Would like to know a LOT more about Global Football Partners Ltd. Is this just a CAFC vehicle or does it have a wider remit and where does CAFC fit into it?
- CM himself says that GB & JF's investments are relatively small beer for them so that would make it very easy for these individuals to walk away yet I guess we are hugely/solely reliant on them to fund short/medium term losses.
So, my jury is still out, partly driven by our painful experiences in recent years. I'm not in the Airman camp of saying it will fail but I would want to understand a lot more before I adorn my bedroom with Gabriel Brener/Josh Friedman duvets and pillows.
It would be helpful to understand what people think “success” looks like.
Well for now, getting back to the championship. And from Prague's interview sounds like they are alligned with that thought and ambition. It's pretty much all we can ask for isn't it? Wild claims of Europe in 5; years are hopefully a thing of the past. Some of what Methven said actually made a lot of sense to me. A realistic plan with competent people will do me all day long.
What would success in the short term look like to you?
I think @Covered_End_Lad pretty much nailed it, although I don’t see category one status as an end in itself and I don’t think a top-six finish in L1 and PO failure is good enough in 23/24 (meaning as it would five straight seasons in L1).
PO failure? Sorry, I don't recall what that means?
That's because we haven't been in one recently....
Inevitably the interview and the motivations behind it are already being slagged off in certain quarters in the usual style, so I'm posting as a reminder the original intro article which explains that this was all CM's own initiative, The link to the main article is at the bottom of that one. When you get to it, you'll see the banner image is a mess, bear with us, I may need techie help with that.
I think the main benefit is an insight into how the structure will work (assuming he is still able to speak for all significant consortium members). There's more than will be possible to put into a club PR statement even if they wanted to. But there were interesting things he asked to keep off the record, and other things we had no time for, such as the future of the real estate. As you will see, he really wanted to talk about him at Sunderland which I managed to avoid until we got to the end of the designated running time, and Zoom terminated that abruptly
Looking forward to see what people make of it
Thanks Prague - interesting.
I guess my more emotional reaction is one of mild disappointment although I'm not sure what else I was expecting. Maybe it's because a lot of this has leaked already and I was hoping for something extra. Maybe I was hoping for a clearer statement of ambitious intent but, again, that is probably an unrealistic expectation. The rest of this transfer window and the next will tell us more.
My head has some concerns:
- I'm worried that there will be no one Head of Charlton - we'll have Rodwell, Scott and Warwick all having seemingly equal status but potentially different visions, missions, objectives - whatever you want to call it - with great potential for core disagreements - who pulls the whole thing together? CM paints a picture of himself as some sort of Walsingham type character whispering in the investor's ears which, again, has the potential for major disruption going forward
- Would like to know a LOT more about Global Football Partners Ltd. Is this just a CAFC vehicle or does it have a wider remit and where does CAFC fit into it?
- CM himself says that GB & JF's investments are relatively small beer for them so that would make it very easy for these individuals to walk away yet I guess we are hugely/solely reliant on them to fund short/medium term losses.
So, my jury is still out, partly driven by our painful experiences in recent years. I'm not in the Airman camp of saying it will fail but I would want to understand a lot more before I adorn my bedroom with Gabriel Brener/Josh Friedman duvets and pillows.
It would be helpful to understand what people think “success” looks like.
Well for now, getting back to the championship. And from Prague's interview sounds like they are alligned with that thought and ambition. It's pretty much all we can ask for isn't it? Wild claims of Europe in 5; years are hopefully a thing of the past. Some of what Methven said actually made a lot of sense to me. A realistic plan with competent people will do me all day long.
What would success in the short term look like to you?
I think @Covered_End_Lad pretty much nailed it, although I don’t see category one status as an end in itself and I don’t think a top-six finish in L1 and PO failure is good enough in 23/24 (meaning as it would five straight seasons in L1).
PO failure? Sorry, I don't recall what that means?
Play Off’s bird brain
To be fair Charlton’s purchase orders bouncing would not be a sign of success!
Inevitably the interview and the motivations behind it are already being slagged off in certain quarters in the usual style, so I'm posting as a reminder the original intro article which explains that this was all CM's own initiative, The link to the main article is at the bottom of that one. When you get to it, you'll see the banner image is a mess, bear with us, I may need techie help with that.
I think the main benefit is an insight into how the structure will work (assuming he is still able to speak for all significant consortium members). There's more than will be possible to put into a club PR statement even if they wanted to. But there were interesting things he asked to keep off the record, and other things we had no time for, such as the future of the real estate. As you will see, he really wanted to talk about him at Sunderland which I managed to avoid until we got to the end of the designated running time, and Zoom terminated that abruptly
Looking forward to see what people make of it
Thanks Prague - interesting.
I guess my more emotional reaction is one of mild disappointment although I'm not sure what else I was expecting. Maybe it's because a lot of this has leaked already and I was hoping for something extra. Maybe I was hoping for a clearer statement of ambitious intent but, again, that is probably an unrealistic expectation. The rest of this transfer window and the next will tell us more.
My head has some concerns:
- I'm worried that there will be no one Head of Charlton - we'll have Rodwell, Scott and Warwick all having seemingly equal status but potentially different visions, missions, objectives - whatever you want to call it - with great potential for core disagreements - who pulls the whole thing together? CM paints a picture of himself as some sort of Walsingham type character whispering in the investor's ears which, again, has the potential for major disruption going forward
- Would like to know a LOT more about Global Football Partners Ltd. Is this just a CAFC vehicle or does it have a wider remit and where does CAFC fit into it?
- CM himself says that GB & JF's investments are relatively small beer for them so that would make it very easy for these individuals to walk away yet I guess we are hugely/solely reliant on them to fund short/medium term losses.
So, my jury is still out, partly driven by our painful experiences in recent years. I'm not in the Airman camp of saying it will fail but I would want to understand a lot more before I adorn my bedroom with Gabriel Brener/Josh Friedman duvets and pillows.
It would be helpful to understand what people think “success” looks like.
Well for now, getting back to the championship. And from Prague's interview sounds like they are alligned with that thought and ambition. It's pretty much all we can ask for isn't it? Wild claims of Europe in 5; years are hopefully a thing of the past. Some of what Methven said actually made a lot of sense to me. A realistic plan with competent people will do me all day long.
What would success in the short term look like to you?
I think @Covered_End_Lad pretty much nailed it, although I don’t see category one status as an end in itself and I don’t think a top-six finish in L1 and PO failure is good enough in 23/24 (meaning as it would five straight seasons in L1).
PO failure? Sorry, I don't recall what that means?
Play Off’s bird brain
Leeds and Sunderland twice is what he’s referring to maybe 😉
Inevitably the interview and the motivations behind it are already being slagged off in certain quarters in the usual style, so I'm posting as a reminder the original intro article which explains that this was all CM's own initiative, The link to the main article is at the bottom of that one. When you get to it, you'll see the banner image is a mess, bear with us, I may need techie help with that.
I think the main benefit is an insight into how the structure will work (assuming he is still able to speak for all significant consortium members). There's more than will be possible to put into a club PR statement even if they wanted to. But there were interesting things he asked to keep off the record, and other things we had no time for, such as the future of the real estate. As you will see, he really wanted to talk about him at Sunderland which I managed to avoid until we got to the end of the designated running time, and Zoom terminated that abruptly
Looking forward to see what people make of it
Thanks Prague - interesting.
I guess my more emotional reaction is one of mild disappointment although I'm not sure what else I was expecting. Maybe it's because a lot of this has leaked already and I was hoping for something extra. Maybe I was hoping for a clearer statement of ambitious intent but, again, that is probably an unrealistic expectation. The rest of this transfer window and the next will tell us more.
My head has some concerns:
- I'm worried that there will be no one Head of Charlton - we'll have Rodwell, Scott and Warwick all having seemingly equal status but potentially different visions, missions, objectives - whatever you want to call it - with great potential for core disagreements - who pulls the whole thing together? CM paints a picture of himself as some sort of Walsingham type character whispering in the investor's ears which, again, has the potential for major disruption going forward
- Would like to know a LOT more about Global Football Partners Ltd. Is this just a CAFC vehicle or does it have a wider remit and where does CAFC fit into it?
- CM himself says that GB & JF's investments are relatively small beer for them so that would make it very easy for these individuals to walk away yet I guess we are hugely/solely reliant on them to fund short/medium term losses.
So, my jury is still out, partly driven by our painful experiences in recent years. I'm not in the Airman camp of saying it will fail but I would want to understand a lot more before I adorn my bedroom with Gabriel Brener/Josh Friedman duvets and pillows.
It would be helpful to understand what people think “success” looks like.
Well for now, getting back to the championship. And from Prague's interview sounds like they are alligned with that thought and ambition. It's pretty much all we can ask for isn't it? Wild claims of Europe in 5; years are hopefully a thing of the past. Some of what Methven said actually made a lot of sense to me. A realistic plan with competent people will do me all day long.
What would success in the short term look like to you?
I think @Covered_End_Lad pretty much nailed it, although I don’t see category one status as an end in itself and I don’t think a top-six finish in L1 and PO failure is good enough in 23/24 (meaning as it would five straight seasons in L1).
PO failure? Sorry, I don't recall what that means?
That's because we haven't been in one recently....
Inevitably the interview and the motivations behind it are already being slagged off in certain quarters in the usual style, so I'm posting as a reminder the original intro article which explains that this was all CM's own initiative, The link to the main article is at the bottom of that one. When you get to it, you'll see the banner image is a mess, bear with us, I may need techie help with that.
I think the main benefit is an insight into how the structure will work (assuming he is still able to speak for all significant consortium members). There's more than will be possible to put into a club PR statement even if they wanted to. But there were interesting things he asked to keep off the record, and other things we had no time for, such as the future of the real estate. As you will see, he really wanted to talk about him at Sunderland which I managed to avoid until we got to the end of the designated running time, and Zoom terminated that abruptly
Looking forward to see what people make of it
Thanks Prague - interesting.
I guess my more emotional reaction is one of mild disappointment although I'm not sure what else I was expecting. Maybe it's because a lot of this has leaked already and I was hoping for something extra. Maybe I was hoping for a clearer statement of ambitious intent but, again, that is probably an unrealistic expectation. The rest of this transfer window and the next will tell us more.
My head has some concerns:
- I'm worried that there will be no one Head of Charlton - we'll have Rodwell, Scott and Warwick all having seemingly equal status but potentially different visions, missions, objectives - whatever you want to call it - with great potential for core disagreements - who pulls the whole thing together? CM paints a picture of himself as some sort of Walsingham type character whispering in the investor's ears which, again, has the potential for major disruption going forward
- Would like to know a LOT more about Global Football Partners Ltd. Is this just a CAFC vehicle or does it have a wider remit and where does CAFC fit into it?
- CM himself says that GB & JF's investments are relatively small beer for them so that would make it very easy for these individuals to walk away yet I guess we are hugely/solely reliant on them to fund short/medium term losses.
So, my jury is still out, partly driven by our painful experiences in recent years. I'm not in the Airman camp of saying it will fail but I would want to understand a lot more before I adorn my bedroom with Gabriel Brener/Josh Friedman duvets and pillows.
It would be helpful to understand what people think “success” looks like.
I think for the vast majority of us success would be building a squad capable of a minimum top 6 finish this year, with the aim to get promoted next year if we don't win the play offs this season. Once promoted, steady and intelligent investment to establish us as a Championship team with an outside shot at the playoffs over the few years after that.
If we can do the above whilst attaining category one status for the academy I think that is a very successful 4-5 years of ownership without needing gamble astronomical sums.
I know it sounds easy written down and no doubt there will be big challenges along the way to achieve it, but having at the right senior management team in place and astute investment in the playing side should make it a real possibility.
Sounds fine but will probably require, shall we say, £100m net investment?
Blimey o Reilly!
To get promoted and Bob along in the championship for a bit? I very much doubt that.
Hope hope to see you still post on here regularly @Airman Brown Whilst I don’t always agree with your views, I think some of the comments on here tonight have been ridiculous.
Comments
Like AB I am concerned about the new owners and will remain so all this season, I thought TS was all bullshit from the beginning and didn't trust the spivs, as for this lot I really don't yet know who they are or what they represent but time will tell and during that time I won't trust them until they prove otherwise.
I do feel that this forum is descending into a back biting bitchy place which I really can not be bothered with, I'll do the stats and I'll keep an eye for those who are battling cancer, for the rest of it you, at present, you can keep it.
EDIT a few hours later
yes my comments were a bit OTT but it has been a bad day, However I will view the new owners with scepticism until proven otherwise but of course support Holden and the team
Sorry if I'm missing something really obvious.
I have been worn out by the club too but I think it is right to give any new owner a chance but if the alarm bells start to ring we should be ready to hear them. It is too early one way or the other at this point.
What I would say is positive is that CM’s interview with Prague seemed to paint him as someone who understands the financial reality and he didn’t offer silly “what to the fans want to hear” statements that spoke of goals that are clearly unattainable in the short term. That puts this ownership group ahead of their recent predecessors.
People love getting themselves angry on the internet.
Plus:
"Leave X alone their allowed an opinion!"
Whilst I pull you apart and cnut you off for your opinion.
Hopefully we’ve got investors with smart plans and deep pockets and a good slice of luck. Interesting times ahead.
I have supported Charlton for over 60 years and always will but couldn’t agree more with his sentiment that we don’t just accept anything the ownership says or does. I think that our history shows that if we as a fan base accepted that we may no longer have had a club to support
And finally in regards to Peter Varney no one can argue that he is a true supporter and his work has been exemplary and dragged the club up. I would have total faith in a Varney led takeover but don’t think he is the only person who can take us forward again. Maybe this new consortium will I certainly hope so
as Gary said, lots of arse lickers on here
It worked out & everyone was happy, thank heavens.
I completely understand why people feel differently about our club than I do. Doesn’t make them any less of a supporter imho. And therefore shouldn’t be labelled as such.
Your assessment is based solely on what you think the new owner's motives are. If TS was seriously minted and said he would fund Charlton for ever regardless of losses and never sell the club because he was passionate about football, we would all be positive I'm sure - but it didn't happen.
I was positive about TS, and had great hopes, probably because he saved us from extinction. But on reflection, you can't ignore the fact he was a one man band whose wealth came from a single source and he could only fund Charlton buy selling shares in his own company - his children's inheritance. Illiquidity has caused TS to sell up, not a loss of passion. He clearly wanted to make a profit, not a loss, but couldn't sustain losses over more than a couple of years.
That illiquidity is less of a risk if you have a number of investors with a significant combined wealth. That's a plus for the new investors, if what we hear is true..
The new investors, according to CM, have simply got a long term horizon for a return on their investment. To me that's more credible a statement than a 5 year horizon for Premiership and Champions League.
For a wealthy investor making a small investment relative to his wealth he is not reliant on the success of that investment to keep him wealthy (for TS it clearly was).
As to not "seeing how it works" do you get how the National Lottery works? As I posted recently, it's all relative. Why do people buy a £2 lottery ticket with a 300 million:1 chance of success? Losing £2 over one week is no different to losing £10m over ten years if you can afford to. Having to chase your investment with top ups is comparable to being addicted to buying a lottery ticket every week chasing your dream, when you don't win the previous week.
What is said, and whether you believe what is said, are two different things. At this stage there is no more reason to disbelieve what we are hearing via CM than disbelieve what TS said when he came on the scene and can't see why anyone thinksTS was more credible.
FWIW I am just as skeptical as anyone when it comes to new owners, and recognise the fact that we're onc.... fourth bitten, fifth shy. But I think the constant stream of negativity from some on here, and forgive me for pointing out that Airman was at the forefront of that, was completely unnecessary and had ulterior motives to it, which I didn't like.
Varney was undoubtedly the best thing that happened to this club, but to completely gloss over what went wrong under him is folly. And to suggest that he can waltz in and change everything and be just as successful again, is also folly. The world as a whole, and also the world of football, has changed almost beyond all recognition from the late 90's to now.
In 1998 the most expensive player in the world was Denilson, signed for 21.5m, today that gets you Granit Xhaka.
1997 the new EPL TV deal was £670m, the next TV deal is projected to break £10b.
My umbrage with what Airman and others are saying is that apparently it's all too easy to come in and make a success of it, but at the same time only to those who have done it before, which makes no sense to me.
Why can't the new guys make a success of it?
Other than "because we don't like them", because as I've found out many times you don't have to like someone to admire and acknowledge what they can accomplish, and to claim they'll fail, just because ESI did (who were a bunch of chancers and grifters who never had the money to begin with) and because TS did (who was and is an egotistical maniac with a complex and a mean streak not seen in the public eye) is complete nonsense.
I'm sorry if people feel like I've somehow hounded him out, that was not my intention, my intention is to dig in and find out why people are so against the new guys, other than the fact Methven made a tit of himself on Sunderland Til I Die, and the rest aren't all vehement Charlton fans, that seem reluctant to step into the limelight.
Anyway, I'm glad it all seems to be done and dusted, and obviously we'll wait and see what the future holds, but I am going to be at The Valley watching on regardless.
Up The Addicks
To get promoted and Bob along in the championship for a bit? I very much doubt that.
Luton stuck it in a credit card didn't they?!
Can you be my accountant! ;-)