POST-MATCH THREAD: Charlton Athletic vs Port Vale: Saturday 19th August 2023: KO 3:00 PM

SouthLincsAddick

Dazzler21 said:

Hopefully the majority owners buy Methven out and ditch him ASAP if he has hoodwinked them. 

For the sake of this club, this shit cannot go on. 

They’ll probably just want to just get rid after a year or so of bad results and realise they were shafted by a red trousered chancer, then onto the next lot of gullible ‘investors’.

The Red Robin

Valiantphil said:

Been to all 5 games so far. 

Honeymoon over. 

We aren’t any good. 
Can’t beat pony sides at home. 

May looks a dud 

Yet another season in L1 coming up. 

Every chance Holden gone by Xmas.

Probably sooner if this carries on. Not that it’s entirely on him, but he’ll be the first to go.

SheedyCAFC

Anyone blaming or pointing the finger on Holden right now is pathetic, he can’t do anything to change this if the owners aren’t letting him buy who he wants

hoof_it_up_to_benty

SheedyCAFC said:

Anyone blaming or pointing the finger on Holden right now is pathetic, he can’t do anything to change this if the owners aren’t letting him buy who he wants

So you're basically saying he has no responsibility for any of our failings. That makes sense...

timken

I agree .holden is not at fault here

charltonbob

Lincsaddick said:

nice guy, however now there are now big doubts about Holden's managerial ability .. is he too nice ? .. the squad might not be all that, but it's not as bad as to be right near the bottom .. I know, it's always blamed the manager, but this a cannot go on .. the players lack effort i m o with a few exceptions .. bring in an experienced man to sort them out, if there is one to be found that is

Don't know much about Holden to be honest & I guess the buck stops with the top man but what about his coaches ? Aren't they two relatively inexperienced guys promoted from the under 21s ? Maybe he needs a bit of experience alongside him ?

Cafc43v3r

RonnieMoore said:

Holden still not addressed the main problem and that is wingers who can cross the ball .. loads of good positions we got into and wasted .. no
point in a new striker if we can’t get the ball in .. Dobson miss in 99 th was poor yet there was people clapping him if that had been Payne or Kirk would they have clapped ?? Ref was awful another red card missed and the handball in the 99 th min ..

but today was down to Holden he let PV crowd mid and them really feed Asiimwe to the wolfs the kid was shot after 35 mins why he kept him on ???? Poor management 

Anyone would think your "master" turned on Holden 24 hours ago...

mogodon

Why is this all so depressingly familiar. At least we usually make it into September before the reality of another grim season of mediocrity sinks in.

hoof_it_up_to_benty

timken said:

I agree .holden is not at fault here

So he has no responsibility 🤦‍♂️

timken

He is responsible for getting the best out of what he is given.he is doing that.he has not been given the tools.when the wi dow shuts we will k ow if the owners intend to give him the tools.his responsibility is the same get the best out of what is available

killerandflash

charltonbob said:

Lincsaddick said:

nice guy, however now there are now big doubts about Holden's managerial ability .. is he too nice ? .. the squad might not be all that, but it's not as bad as to be right near the bottom .. I know, it's always blamed the manager, but this a cannot go on .. the players lack effort i m o with a few exceptions .. bring in an experienced man to sort them out, if there is one to be found that is

Don't know much about Holden to be honest & I guess the buck stops with the top man but what about his coaches ? Aren't they two relatively inexperienced guys promoted from the under 21s ? Maybe he needs a bit of experience alongside him ?

I had wondered about that too. A fairly young manager surely needs an experienced assistant, not two former academy coaches.

charltonbob

Nug said:

I feel bad for Asimwe he has been decent for a young lad but why did we get rid of Clare, was he on stupid money, he was a very good right back, doesn’t make sense to be left so short on players. We will certainly see if these owners are serious or not in the next week or so.

Maybe because the budget has been cut & we are forced into playing the youngsters. Best ask Dubai or reams on the other forum, they are being fed the company line (Don't expect the truth though)

raytreacy69

I think Curbs will be offered a role fairly soon
whether he takes it …remains to be seen

Cafc43v3r

kentred2 said:

East Kent Addick said:

RonnieMoore said:

Holden still not addressed the main problem and that is wingers who can cross the ball .. loads of good positions we got into and wasted .. no
point in a new striker if we can’t get the ball in .. Dobson miss in 99 th was poor yet there was people clapping him if that had been Payne or Kirk would they have clapped ?? Ref was awful another red card missed and the handball in the 99 th min ..

but today was down to Holden he let PV crowd mid and them really feed Asiimwe to the wolfs the kid was shot after 35 mins why he kept him on ???? Poor management 

Funnily enough the one time CBT went wide right he delivered the cross for Kanu's equaliser - playing him as an inverted winger on the left means he is always trying to cut in on his right and PV sussed that out eventually and closed him down. Me I'm just an old fashioned 442 man who wants a left footer on the left and a right footer on the right to cross the ball into the box.

All these modern fluid formations might work well at the top level but with a bunch of kids and useless third div players you are better off going back to basics with a solid formation where everyone knows their role.

Been saying that for ages. 4 4 2 with good players is all you need. So we need still two full backs, two wide midfielders and a centre forward. 

Who was the last team that was promoted out of league 1, or the championship and league 2 if you like, playing 442?

Croydon

SheedyCAFC said:

Anyone blaming or pointing the finger on Holden right now is pathetic, he can’t do anything to change this if the owners aren’t letting him buy who he wants

He can coach is to defend set pieces for start. Of course there's other issues at play, but to say he takes no blame is mental

charltonbob

usetobunkin said:

No hint of any body new to come in, are we under a another embargo?

That is the nonsense being touted by methvens boys

blackpool72

killerandflash said:

RoanRedNY said:

Chunes said:

kentred2 said:

East Kent Addick said:

RonnieMoore said:

Holden still not addressed the main problem and that is wingers who can cross the ball .. loads of good positions we got into and wasted .. no
point in a new striker if we can’t get the ball in .. Dobson miss in 99 th was poor yet there was people clapping him if that had been Payne or Kirk would they have clapped ?? Ref was awful another red card missed and the handball in the 99 th min ..

but today was down to Holden he let PV crowd mid and them really feed Asiimwe to the wolfs the kid was shot after 35 mins why he kept him on ???? Poor management 

Funnily enough the one time CBT went wide right he delivered the cross for Kanu's equaliser - playing him as an inverted winger on the left means he is always trying to cut in on his right and PV sussed that out eventually and closed him down. Me I'm just an old fashioned 442 man who wants a left footer on the left and a right footer on the right to cross the ball into the box.

All these modern fluid formations might work well at the top level but with a bunch of kids and useless third div players you are better off going back to basics with a solid formation where everyone knows their role.

Been saying that for ages. 4 4 2 with good players is all you need. So we need still two full backs, two wide midfielders and a centre forward. 

We went to 442 for 10 minutes on Tuesday and got roasted by their 3-man midfield down the middle

5 4 3 should crack it

We could play 653 and McGrandles still wouldn't get a game

Tbf I think that formation could work

Chunes

Holden has arguably been given enough tools to beat Port Vale and Bristol Rovers at home. 

Braziliance

I cannot believe I said I would do the 46. 4 games in and I wanted to throw my camera on the pitch. That game has actually made me miserable.

I will it say now, take the kids out of it. They were our best players and they don't deserve to have their confidence ruined. Playing them will only hinder them, I think it would be irresponsible of Holden to start them next game as you can just tell the atmosphere is gonna get toxic. 

Genuinely getting concerned we have been sold a dud. No transfer activity in 20+ days or so, no signs of any signings other than a right back, manager doesn't seem to know how to organise a team. We are just a weak club. How many teams have come to the Valley and rolled us over now? Holden says all this stuff about wanting to make the Valley a fortress? Nonsense. More empty seats than filled seats (not that I blame people not attending), the football isn't good enough to get the crowd off their seats & we don't have the experienced players to win games like that. It's so morbid. 

I said we were unlucky the last two games and we were, today we weren't. Tactically inept. No one can use the excuse of squad strength, no disrespect, it's Port Vale. I spoke to about 10 Port Vale fans before the game, not one of them fancied their chances, all hoped for a draw at best. They put 3 past us.

AMB - Terrible, probably not too wise to start a keeper who maybe has 10-20% of his vision blocked. I ain't being dramatic because I said it before, I don't remember a worse keeper than him in recent years, obviously excluding keepers like Harness who never got a chance.

Defenders - all unprofessional, I couldn't stand washed up Pearce, he walks in to this side. Only Asiimwe gets any credit, and the last goal wasn't his fault, I blame AMB and poor tactical decisions more.  

Midfielders - non existent. Karoy is a talent but a kid, Dobbo had a bad game where he looked like he was trying too hard, Terry Taylor came with a lot of promise but looks average early doors

Forwards - May just runs about, system doesn't suit him, Kanu looked decent, CBT same old, no end product. 

I can't believe we lost that, they looked so so ordinary. If you told even their fans they'd score 3 second half they wouldn't believe you. 

Miserable, just miserable. We won't get anything at Oxford either, bogey side. I didn't believe that before the season started that we would get points at Oxford, now I am 100% confident we won't.

The owners have 2 weeks to get this right. If not they have some explaining to do, cause this is unacceptable and we are gonna find ourselves on a downward trajectory to relegation, the only shining light is that there are some really poor sides in this league so league 1 safety should be safe..what a time 

hoof_it_up_to_benty

Croydon said:

SheedyCAFC said:

Anyone blaming or pointing the finger on Holden right now is pathetic, he can’t do anything to change this if the owners aren’t letting him buy who he wants

He can coach is to defend set pieces for start. Of course there's other issues at play, but to say he takes no blame is mental

Our defenders are too slow to react when AMB parries the ball - oppo forwards invariably react quicker...

charltonbob

PowellsHeadedGoal said:

Am I reactionary yes? But I'm going on record that these owners will not be our saving grace. No new faces for nearly a month? Something doesn't add up for me here. Either there's no money, no idea or they thought everything was okay squad wise - all are very worrying. 

Perhaps read not 606 Sunderland thread about charlie & the billionaire who passed the EFL tests but who allegedly had no intention of funding Sunderland. I don't know how much truth there is & I'm not making any accusations, just worth a read.   

thickandthin63

All the time we have Hector in the team,we will concede goals.He ballsed up an air clearance in the first half and we escaped.His cock up for the second was laughable.
I will not blame Akinsinwe for the 3rd,he was tired,and had worked his balls off.If I was playing CB on Blackheath and I saw a long hopeful punt head towards our RB position,I would say to myself,that looks like it could be a problem and get over there to help out.Not one person moved to help out,even when AMB  parried the ball,it was still Akinsinwe who had to get up and try to stop the guy crossing.Even then they had an unchallenged tap in.
We carry no aerial threat in either area.Every corner or free kick against us could result in a goal.
I feel for CBT,he got some good balls over but with the lack of height,he was wasting his time,of course one cross was superbly put away by Kanu(who was probably MoTM for us)
I really dont know how Holden will deal with defensive problems,but if this carries on we are in the shit.

Airman Brown

Braziliance said:

I cannot believe I said I would do the 46. 4 games in and I wanted to throw my camera on the pitch. That game has actually made me miserable.

I will it say now, take the kids out of it. They were our best players and they don't deserve to have their confidence ruined. Playing them will only hinder them, I think it would be irresponsible of Holden to start them next game as you can just tell the atmosphere is gonna get toxic. 

Genuinely getting concerned we have been sold a dud. No transfer activity in 20+ days or so, no signs of any signings other than a right back, manager doesn't seem to know how to organise a team. We are just a weak club. How many teams have come to the Valley and rolled us over now? Holden says all this stuff about wanting to make the Valley a fortress? Nonsense. More empty seats than filled seats (not that I blame people not attending), the football isn't good enough to get the crowd off their seats & we don't have the experienced players to win games like that. It's so morbid. 

I said we were unlucky the last two games and we were, today we weren't. Tactically inept. No one can use the excuse of squad strength, no disrespect, it's Port Vale. I spoke to about 10 Port Vale fans before the game, not one of them fancied their chances, all hoped for a draw at best. They put 3 past us.

AMB - Terrible, probably not too wise to start a keeper who maybe has 10-20% of his vision blocked. I ain't being dramatic because I said it before, I don't remember a worse keeper than him in recent years, obviously excluding keepers like Harness who never got a chance.

Defenders - all unprofessional, I couldn't stand washed up Pearce, he walks in to this side. Only Asiimwe gets any credit, and the last goal wasn't his fault, I blame AMB and poor tactical decisions more.  

Midfielders - non existent. Karoy is a talent but a kid, Dobbo had a bad game where he looked like he was trying too hard, Terry Taylor came with a lot of promise but looks average early doors

Forwards - May just runs about, system doesn't suit him, Kanu looked decent, CBT same old, no end product. 

I can't believe we lost that, they looked so so ordinary. If you told even their fans they'd score 3 second half they wouldn't believe you. 

Miserable, just miserable. We won't get anything at Oxford either, bogey side. I didn't believe that before the season started that we would get points at Oxford, now I am 100% confident we won't.

The owners have 2 weeks to get this right. If not they have some explaining to do, cause this is unacceptable and we are gonna find ourselves on a downward trajectory to relegation, the only shining light is that there are some really poor sides in this league so league 1 safety should be safe..what a time 

There will be no explanations - or anything else - from the owners until Methven and co are weeded out, if then.

timken

To say holden is not to blame is an "opinion".If you do nit agree it doesn't make the opinion "mental".it just makes it different to yours.Fortunately we have moved on from the times when people stated an opinion and wrote the word FACT 
directly after it thinking this would indeed turn an opinion into fact.Similarly referring to an opinion as "mental "has no magic power to make that opinion more or less valid. 

Off_it

timken said:

To say holden is not to blame is an "opinion".If you do nit agree it doesn't make the opinion "mental".it just makes it different to yours.Fortunately we have moved on from the times when people stated an opinion and wrote the word FACT 
directly after it thinking this would indeed turn an opinion into fact.Similarly referring to an opinion as "mental "has no magic power to make that opinion more or less valid. 

Mental FACT!

Braziliance

Airman Brown said:

Braziliance said:

I cannot believe I said I would do the 46. 4 games in and I wanted to throw my camera on the pitch. That game has actually made me miserable.

I will it say now, take the kids out of it. They were our best players and they don't deserve to have their confidence ruined. Playing them will only hinder them, I think it would be irresponsible of Holden to start them next game as you can just tell the atmosphere is gonna get toxic. 

Genuinely getting concerned we have been sold a dud. No transfer activity in 20+ days or so, no signs of any signings other than a right back, manager doesn't seem to know how to organise a team. We are just a weak club. How many teams have come to the Valley and rolled us over now? Holden says all this stuff about wanting to make the Valley a fortress? Nonsense. More empty seats than filled seats (not that I blame people not attending), the football isn't good enough to get the crowd off their seats & we don't have the experienced players to win games like that. It's so morbid. 

I said we were unlucky the last two games and we were, today we weren't. Tactically inept. No one can use the excuse of squad strength, no disrespect, it's Port Vale. I spoke to about 10 Port Vale fans before the game, not one of them fancied their chances, all hoped for a draw at best. They put 3 past us.

AMB - Terrible, probably not too wise to start a keeper who maybe has 10-20% of his vision blocked. I ain't being dramatic because I said it before, I don't remember a worse keeper than him in recent years, obviously excluding keepers like Harness who never got a chance.

Defenders - all unprofessional, I couldn't stand washed up Pearce, he walks in to this side. Only Asiimwe gets any credit, and the last goal wasn't his fault, I blame AMB and poor tactical decisions more.  

Midfielders - non existent. Karoy is a talent but a kid, Dobbo had a bad game where he looked like he was trying too hard, Terry Taylor came with a lot of promise but looks average early doors

Forwards - May just runs about, system doesn't suit him, Kanu looked decent, CBT same old, no end product. 

I can't believe we lost that, they looked so so ordinary. If you told even their fans they'd score 3 second half they wouldn't believe you. 

Miserable, just miserable. We won't get anything at Oxford either, bogey side. I didn't believe that before the season started that we would get points at Oxford, now I am 100% confident we won't.

The owners have 2 weeks to get this right. If not they have some explaining to do, cause this is unacceptable and we are gonna find ourselves on a downward trajectory to relegation, the only shining light is that there are some really poor sides in this league so league 1 safety should be safe..what a time 

There will be no explanations - or anything else - from the owners until Methven and co are weeded out, if then.

Well either way, I'll be having a drink tonight. That was a dire performance. As others have said, earliest I've lost faith into a season, when was the last time we started a season this poor

RoanRedNY

mogodon said:

Why is this all so depressingly familiar. At least we usually make it into September before the reality of another grim season of mediocrity sinks in.

Maybe we should lobby the League for a later start?  That should do it.

StanTheMan

Fed up with all the excuses from the club, we always seem to be the club with problems, well they can wake up and smell the coffee! Obviously not fit enough to run around for 70 -80 minutes. Well, they need to take a look at the tactic by PV and see the changes, it's not hard, and sick and tired when our managers cannot see what is going on.

Maybe they need to get in the stands because our support can see what's going on!

Simply not good enough, but they will be at Sparrows lane and we will hear how well we have trained and then get turned over by another team who they completely underestimate. I think they are being built up to something where they are clearly not good enough, you only have to look at the Bolton V Wigan, Wigan have had a hell of a time, but clearly what they do have are 11 on field and the subs who wear their hearts on their sleeves!

We have 2 or 3 players at present who are prepared to put in a shift!

Cupboard_Monkey

Our set pieces have been awful so far this season which tells me something is wrong with the coaching side as each kick generally has no purpose.

I don't think it's a relegation squad (although it's certainly not a promotion one) but I am getting this deja vu feeling of Nigel Adkins era. 

Need to replace the keeper for Oxford....

Briston_Addick

Posting having only read pages 1 & 2 (but guessing pages 3-9 aren't full of joyous reports) ...

There are times watching Charlton, as I have done for 42 years, when words fail you ... and today is one of those days.

On the whole we played well without being outstanding, bossed large chunks of the game against an extremely ordinary Port Vale who hadn't tasted the chocolates away from home in goodness knows how long ... and still contrived to gift-wrap all three goals and the three points.

If Justin Fletcher ever moves out of childrens' entertainment he's got a rich seam of material for Mr Tumble-hosted Charlton highlights:

"Something Special: We're All Shit"

Apart from the fans who watched that today, I felt really sorry for young Daniel and Nathan. Kanu scored yet another excellent striker's goal and Asiimwe had a wonderful game until he blew a gasket towards the end and made that costly error. Despite that he got a superb, and richly deserved, round of applause when he trudged off at the Cupboard End.

The skipper had another good game but should have scored with that header at the death.

Our set pieces, attacking and defensively, are atrocious. How many years have we been moaning about these now? How is it that every other club in Christendom can put in a decent corner or free kick but we can't? Why can't we defend them? Is there Kryptonite in the ref's shaving foam that he puts on the ground to measure out 10(ish) yards? I have no idea what they're working on on the training pitch because it's either not being translated to "live" play or what's being rehearsed is absolute squit.

In summary: shocking.