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The UK is to rejoin the EU wide Horizon science scheme.
Comments
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agree and hopefully. it doesn't have to be political and an excuse to start/re-hash political commentsoapy_jones said:In science and innovation Europe needs us as well as we them. Sensible decision for both parties.
Any of the usual suspects on here who want to bore the arse off of us with their political viewpoints (he yawns...) can crack on, the thread will just get closed down sooner rather than later.
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My understanding is that the UK were always going to be remain part of horizon, but EU blocked it due to NI protocol, but resolved with Windsor framework. Politics on both sides, as UK was holding out for something back as well. Very glad that we have rejoined as it was huge for British academia as it's about large long term funded projects involving multiple teams in different countries. UK missed out a lot last couple of years even if the government was matching the funding, horizon is all about the cooperation.
So, this isn't really a rolling back of what people voted for as staying was supposed to be part of the withdrawal agreement. Other non EU countries are part e.g. Brazil.
Let's hope too much damage hasn't already been done to UK academia8 -
Only glanced quickly before posting.
No reason we shouldn't be part of it along with any other non-EU nation worldwide but would probably say funding should only be for EU nations if they've paid in by EU membership. Unless we're bringing something else to the table to warrant a slice of the £85bn but wouldn't know if we are tbh.
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Don’t think companies. Horizon opens access to an EU wide pool of funding for research establishments, universities and even individual groups if they can provide good cause for funding. It’s not just cooperation on data it’s cooperation and coordination of research.sam3110 said:I'm not sure how much it actually changes for some of the sciences.
For instance, pharma, is pretty much unchanged but this as almost all big and medium pharmaceutical companies have multiple offices in the EU and the US as well as the UK.
I'd imagine a lot of science led companies are the same.
It's a good thing for smaller companies and individuals though, for sure1 -
Have to pay to be a member. Don't remember the figure but a few billionMartinCAFC said:Only glanced quickly before posting.
No reason we shouldn't be part of it along with any other non-EU nation worldwide but would probably say funding should only be for EU nations if they've paid in by EU membership. Unless we're bringing something else to the table to warrant a slice of the £85bn but wouldn't know if we are tbh.0 -
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As someone how has previously worked on EU funded projects, this is a massive relief. There has been significant challenges and delays and the cancellation of lots of scientific research on the basis of the hiatus created by the Governments impasse with the EU on Horizon funding, the UK using it as a poor bargaining chip on other concessions. Scientific research, like investment benefits from certainty and some predictability at least, which is now in place.
Finally we have movement forward, which is good news for both sides.
The majority didn't vote on Horizon specifically, and promises were made by some on the 'vote leave' side that Brexit didn't mean leaving Horizon, whilst others advocated leaving it in their arguments. So some will clearly be unhappy, as we were sold both sides... The idea that Brexit means Brexit, is a challenge, as people were happy for it to mean different things at the outset to sell to a wide audience, but then got frustrated when the Brexit delivered didn't match their own preferences and expectations. The scientific community got stuck in the middle of this and used as a football.
On the subject to whether this might tangentially mean cooperation in other areas, potentially.
However on the query on how scientific collaboration can effect things like people smuggling, it will actually do so directly, it is likely the UK will now again be able to collaboratively bid for funding to address challenges such as this.
For example this recent call from 2022.
New EU funding to combat trafficking in human beings (europa.eu)
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Hold on. Are you allowed to post such sensible comments on a thread such as this?soapy_jones said:In science and innovation Europe needs us as well as we them. Sensible decision for both parties.
Any of the usual suspects on here who want to bore the arse off of us with their political viewpoints (he yawns...) can crack on, the thread will just get closed down sooner rather than later.1 -
There are loads of non EU countries involved.2
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Forget everything else. Disregard the noise. Being a member is unequivocally a very good thing.3
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Sponsored links:
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Can't wait for the daily mail articles next year about the fact "woke universities" are "under the thumb of the EU".3
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Brexit is a total failure. We shouldn’t just rejoin the Horizon scheme, we should rejoin the European Union.13
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Excellent post, debunking the basic premise of Plums opening post. Surprised that those who were all over misleading posts on the Covid thread didn’t take the same approach here.McBobbin said:My understanding is that the UK were always going to be remain part of horizon, but EU blocked it due to NI protocol, but resolved with Windsor framework. Politics on both sides, as UK was holding out for something back as well. Very glad that we have rejoined as it was huge for British academia as it's about large long term funded projects involving multiple teams in different countries. UK missed out a lot last couple of years even if the government was matching the funding, horizon is all about the cooperation.
So, this isn't really a rolling back of what people voted for as staying was supposed to be part of the withdrawal agreement. Other non EU countries are part e.g. Brazil.
Let's hope too much damage hasn't already been done to UK academia2 -
Now you’ve done it.se9addick said:Brexit is a total failure. We shouldn’t just rejoin the Horizon scheme, we should rejoin the European Union.6 -
Do you understand how it works?Thommo said:
Yes but depending on their respective status many cannot receive funds, just have to be named partners.PopIcon said:There are loads of non EU countries involved.
The UK will contribute over two billion Euros annually. There maybe profits, there may be loses.
As mentioned there are loads of non EU countries who will receive funding.0 -
the silent rejoin has begun, come 2040, when UK passport holders will be in the EU queue again, and Britain is in the EEA1
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How long before someone mentions a particular 'wing', 'alt', 'Daily Mail' or other such daftness?
Oh.....3 -
Well it's had its run.
May as well shut down this thread now admin, clearly the children posting on here all come from RAAC affected schools and have nothing better to do!
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Well, it is. It’s an example of where cooperation and shared objectives, resources and in my case, linked data can get you. There’s absolutely no need to for this thread to turn into an argument. The UK returning to this scheme is objectively a good thing.PrincessFiona said:
Of course, but nothing to do with EU cooperation on people smuggling because of the Horizon programme!The Red Robin said:
In my world (NHS and local authority) we use multiple routine datasets to build models to help us predict vulnerabilities and use that to shape early interventions and support. I.e if you can identify people likely to be vulnerable to trafficking (as an example) then you may be able to intervene and support them earlier.PrincessFiona said:
I asked what people smuggling has to do with a scientific programseth plum said:
I said ‘more general cooperation’.PrincessFiona said:
why does scientific cooperation affect working together to stop people smuggling?seth plum said:Scientific cooperation is not a can of worms in my view.
Heck it might even lead to more general cooperation, like working together to stop the criminal people smuggling gangs.
Are you suggesting the EU actively want to stop or even reduce people smuggling to the UK anyway? Your definitely opening up a political debate by introducing illegal migration into this threadThat’s just one scientific example off the top of my head.6 -
Sponsored links:
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Too late someone already has.Big_Bad_World said:How long before someone mentions a particular 'wing', 'alt', 'Daily Mail' or other such daftness?
Oh.....1 -
sam3110 said:Well it's had its run.
May as well shut down this thread now admin, clearly the children posting on here all come from RAAC affected schools and have nothing better to do!
After the crumbling concrete saga news broke, I thought someone might re-open the "Who's RAAC?" thread to avoid any politically sensitive commentary on the subject.1 -
It was not the UK that held this up:The TCA set out general rules and conditions for UK participation in EU programmes, including a formula for calculating UK financial contributions. The programmes that the UK would be participating in would be set out in a separate protocol. A draft protocol, published alongside the TCA but not yet finalised by the UK and EU, indicated the UK would be involved in the following programmes:• Copernicus –one of the EU space programmes, covering earth observation through satellite and land, sea and air surveillance systems (specifically the programme established for 2021-2027).• Horizon Europe – the EU’s framework programme for research and innovation for 2021-2027, and successor to Horizon 2020. This is the largest of the programmes, with a budget of €95.5 billion.• The research and training programme of the European Atomic Energy Community (Euratom), complementing Horizon Europe, from 2021 to 2025.• The European component of ITER (International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor) and the Development of Fusion Energy.
Participation in EU programmes has, however, yet to be signed off by the EU. A joint UK-EU declaration published alongside the TCA in December 2020 explained that the draft protocol could not be adopted then, as the EU needed to first adopt its long-term budget for 2021-2027 and the legislation for the various programmes that the UK would be participating in. The declaration stated that the UK and EU had agreed the protocols in principle and that these would be submitted to the joint UK-EU Specialised Committee on Participation in EU Programmes for adoption.By early May 2021, the EU’s budget and its legislation for the programmes had been adopted. However, the EU did not proceed with sign-off of UK participation. In September 2021, the European Commissioner for Research and Innovation, Mariya Gabriel, indicated that there was a link between adoption of the protocols on UK participation in EU programmes and resolution of the differences between the UK and EU over the implementation of the Withdrawal Agreement Northern Ireland Protocol.The Specialised Committee met for the first time in December 2021, where the EU confirmed its view that the completion of procedures for formalising UK participation in EU programmes were not “in the current political setting [...] opportune” because of “serious difficulties” in implementing the WA.The differences between the UK and the EU over implementation of the Northern Ireland Protocol have subsequently remained unresolved, and the EU has continued to reject requests by the UK to complete the formalities to enable UK participation in programmes.
In August 2022, the UK Government requested formal consultations with the EU on the matter, as the first stage in the dispute settlement mechanism in the TCA. The Government said that the EU was in breach of the TCA, given that the agreement states the UK shall participate in EU programmes.
https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-9664/CBP-9664.pdf?utm_medium=email&utm_source=CampaignMonitor_Editorial&utm_campaign=LNCH%20%2020230907%20%20House%20ads%20%20JO+CID_5f046fda9652bcc8358ddf7396865d788 -
Where have we heard that before?soapy_jones said:In science and innovation Europe needs us as well as we them. Sensible decision for both parties.
Any of the usual suspects on here who want to bore the arse off of us with their political viewpoints (he yawns...) can crack on, the thread will just get closed down sooner rather than later.
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I don’t believe there is any kind of ‘basic premise’ in my opening post.SporadicAddick said:
Excellent post, debunking the basic premise of Plums opening post. Surprised that those who were all over misleading posts on the Covid thread didn’t take the same approach here.McBobbin said:My understanding is that the UK were always going to be remain part of horizon, but EU blocked it due to NI protocol, but resolved with Windsor framework. Politics on both sides, as UK was holding out for something back as well. Very glad that we have rejoined as it was huge for British academia as it's about large long term funded projects involving multiple teams in different countries. UK missed out a lot last couple of years even if the government was matching the funding, horizon is all about the cooperation.
So, this isn't really a rolling back of what people voted for as staying was supposed to be part of the withdrawal agreement. Other non EU countries are part e.g. Brazil.
Let's hope too much damage hasn't already been done to UK academia
I reported new news followed by a question about what implications might follow.0 -
Let me save everyone the bother and get this shut down now... Left wing snowflakes, evil right wing tory bigots/scum, no solution to NI border, just f**k off, bring back hanging, racist,
The moderators notification alarm bells will be going into overdrive now.3 -
Yes, I have worked on EU funded projects as a recipient of funds, and given extensive advice to academics and universities looking to bid for EU funds (including Horizon, before if FP7, EU Cost Actions and Erasmus).PopIcon said:
Do you understand how it works?Thommo said:
Yes but depending on their respective status many cannot receive funds, just have to be named partners.PopIcon said:There are loads of non EU countries involved.
The UK will contribute over two billion Euros annually. There maybe profits, there may be loses.
As mentioned there are loads of non EU countries who will receive funding.
The status of the country as a member state, associated country or non associate country has huge implications on how you can be involved.
EU entities can be direct beneficiaries of funds
Associate countries can participate in some but not all calls, it’s defined by each call, can get most funds
Non associated or non EU countries can take part but not always with funding.
We are now an Associate member, which means we can access the whole of Horizon Europe but not the Europe Innovation Council fund.
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Rejoin what suits. Hardly silentRothko said:the silent rejoin has begun, come 2040, when UK passport holders will be in the EU queue again, and Britain is in the EEA0 -
And no need for it to get political either!The Red Robin said:
Well, it is. It’s an example of where cooperation and shared objectives, resources and in my case, linked data can get you. There’s absolutely no need to for this thread to turn into an argument. The UK returning to this scheme is objectively a good thing.PrincessFiona said:
Of course, but nothing to do with EU cooperation on people smuggling because of the Horizon programme!The Red Robin said:
In my world (NHS and local authority) we use multiple routine datasets to build models to help us predict vulnerabilities and use that to shape early interventions and support. I.e if you can identify people likely to be vulnerable to trafficking (as an example) then you may be able to intervene and support them earlier.PrincessFiona said:
I asked what people smuggling has to do with a scientific programseth plum said:
I said ‘more general cooperation’.PrincessFiona said:
why does scientific cooperation affect working together to stop people smuggling?seth plum said:Scientific cooperation is not a can of worms in my view.
Heck it might even lead to more general cooperation, like working together to stop the criminal people smuggling gangs.
Are you suggesting the EU actively want to stop or even reduce people smuggling to the UK anyway? Your definitely opening up a political debate by introducing illegal migration into this threadThat’s just one scientific example off the top of my head.0 -
Thommo said:
Yes, I have worked on EU funded projects as a recipient of funds, and given extensive advice to academics and universities looking to bid for EU funds (including Horizon, before if FP7, EU Cost Actions and Erasmus).PopIcon said:
Do you understand how it works?Thommo said:
Yes but depending on their respective status many cannot receive funds, just have to be named partners.PopIcon said:There are loads of non EU countries involved.
The UK will contribute over two billion Euros annually. There maybe profits, there may be loses.
As mentioned there are loads of non EU countries who will receive funding.
The status of the country as a member state, associated country or non associate country has huge implications on how you can be involved.
EU entities can be direct beneficiaries of funds
Associate countries can participate in some but not all calls, it’s defined by each call, can get most funds
Non associated or non EU countries can take part but not always with funding.
We are now an Associate member, which means we can access the whole of Horizon Europe but not the Europe Innovation Council fund.
PopIcon "Shit is brown"
Thommo "no it's not, it's dark brown"1
