Surely the benchmark would be to ask whether Pep Guardiola would turn this squad into League One winners, and work backwards from there. I've seen nothing from our defence so far to suggest any manager could get them playing like league beaters.
Makes it pointless to be talking about the manager when it's the squad that's the issue.
Welcome Michael. Hope Louis asks you about the meme and that you're fully aware you're starting your reign as a joke. Good luck
I for one (and it probably is only me) will be the more positive about the appointment until 10 games have been played. We’ve lost 6 games in 8. Should we not have looked more rationally at things . The manager should be in the background and not the focus of attention. Let him get on with it and let’s turn up and support the team. We all love having a moan but sometimes it’s best if you stay quiet. Negativity breeds malevolence.
" The manager should be in the background and not the focus of attention".
You said it, @bromleyjohn . You're right, of course. That's how it used to be. The manager worked behind the scenes, maybe a quote to the local reporter, etc. ...... and was allowed just to get on with his job.
In this internet age ..... it's us the football fans, with our extreme expectation and sense of entitlement to know everything instantly; 24/7 speculation and sometimes hysterical over-analysis of the minutest detail on social media, which is creating the situations of today. Not just Charlton fans, but fans at every club throughout the divisions. I mean, in the Prem it's even more exposed in the glare of media saturation.
The villification of Appleton is ridiculous. He's been appointed to the job. Let him get on with it to justify his appointment.
Why are some people so quick to judge and condemn him, before a ball has been kicked? Based on what?
Give the man a chance. If he does a good job, then he stays. If the results don't come, he'll be gone soon enough.
Surely the benchmark would be to ask whether Pep Guardiola would turn this squad into League One winners, and work backwards from there. I've seen nothing from our defence so far to suggest any manager could get them playing like league beaters.
Makes it pointless to be talking about the manager when it's the squad that's the issue.
Welcome Michael. Hope Louis asks you about the meme and that you're fully aware you're starting your reign as a joke. Good luck
Only 3 teams have conceded more goals than us this year and one of them conceded 7 in one game. If we swapped out our whole defence say with Carlisle's who have only conceded 6 goals and had them playing under Holden we'd have probably conceded the most amount of goals in the division by far.
For those on here that are 50 plus, and have seen a lot of seasons / managers, just wondering how you feel about our latest incumbent?
Well I am nearly 80,seen a lot of seasons.When I first watched football,we didnt really care who the manager was,or half the time didnt know.Jimmy Seed was the first for me and then Jimmy Trotter,but they always stayed in the background.Gradually revolving managers became the norm,and also became higher profile.We had a succession of managers,Nelson,Craggs,Bailey,Firmani,Mullery and more,all ok without pulling trees up,later we had Lennie who was great,and then of course Curbs,no more to be said.Since Curbs,well its all been said,Dowie was useless,Les Reed Ridiculous,Pardew crap,i could go on,but our record with managers ,other than Bowyer and Powell has been appalling.Bob Peters,dear oh Dear,Jose Riga,Guy Luzon,Karyl Freye,right up to present day,just one disaster after another.Well how do I feel about Appleton,answer,I dont know much about him,but he has his work cut out,and I feel we should give him all the support we can.Who could we have got who was guaranteed to be better,what good manager would leave a job to join us.this whole situation we now have is down to Southall making promises to Roland about buying the ground for 50m and meanwhile just taking on the debt making side of the club(we all know why).This is nothing to do with Appleton,he is not to blame for our situation,he has been employed to do a job,we can help him by being patient.
Great post. Lots of good perspective in there.
I heard that managers way back when weren't as big a deal as they are now and it was owners/chairmen who raised the profile of coaches to managers in order to take attention away from themselves
Top Six? With this squad? I mean if you had some evidence to back it up I'd love to agree with you / hope it happens.
Sadly..... we don't
Exactly! No evidence as yet as some of our new players haven't even started a game for us. New manager might get defence organized and improve confidence. Have you evidence that he won't?
You've written off the squad and manager this season after six league games. Now that is worthy of a 'lol'
I have liked your post However, the evidence of what will be 1/8 of our season (and all of last season) suggests the current squad will finish mid table, around 15-20 points outside the play offs. I am hopeful this isn't the case I wouldn't bet on it though
It's not about writing them off I am a Charlton fan
I am simply basing it on the body of evidence we have.
You say only six games
I say the last three years
How many managers? How many failed set ups? How many broken promises?
I WANT us to do well
Everybody does
But what we see before our very eyes suggests, so far, to not be the case.
I hope Appleton and the SMT prove me wrong
Appleton's stats, Sunderland Till I Die and the shit show we've become suggest otherwise.
Again. I wanted to be wrong in January. I want to be wrong now.
I really, really, REALLY want to be wrong.
I simply wouldn't bet on it though.
Fair enough. However, I think there's a big difference in being able to get automatics and being able to mount a challenge to make top six. The league is supposedly weaker this season and the first few games have not suggested anyone is in a class of their own, so it's still all to play for.
From the evidence of our defensive frailties so far, top six is a distant possibility, but I'm banking on anyone semi competent, and I believe Appleton is that, to organise it better and make us harder to beat as a priority. We go from there, but there's a long way to go and masses of points up for grabs. Don't underestimate how much confidence can play a part too, and, if we get a new manager bounce, that should pick up.
I've just posted a few thoughts on our ongoing ownership tribulations you've alluded to on the Charlie's Angels thread or whatever it's called.
For those on here that are 50 plus, and have seen a lot of seasons / managers, just wondering how you feel about our latest incumbent?
Well I am nearly 80,seen a lot of seasons.When I first watched football,we didnt really care who the manager was,or half the time didnt know.Jimmy Seed was the first for me and then Jimmy Trotter,but they always stayed in the background.Gradually revolving managers became the norm,and also became higher profile.We had a succession of managers,Nelson,Craggs,Bailey,Firmani,Mullery and more,all ok without pulling trees up,later we had Lennie who was great,and then of course Curbs,no more to be said.Since Curbs,well its all been said,Dowie was useless,Les Reed Ridiculous,Pardew crap,i could go on,but our record with managers ,other than Bowyer and Powell has been appalling.Bob Peters,dear oh Dear,Jose Riga,Guy Luzon,Karyl Freye,right up to present day,just one disaster after another.Well how do I feel about Appleton,answer,I dont know much about him,but he has his work cut out,and I feel we should give him all the support we can.Who could we have got who was guaranteed to be better,what good manager would leave a job to join us.this whole situation we now have is down to Southall making promises to Roland about buying the ground for 50m and meanwhile just taking on the debt making side of the club(we all know why).This is nothing to do with Appleton,he is not to blame for our situation,he has been employed to do a job,we can help him by being patient.
Great post. Lots of good perspective in there.
I heard that managers way back when weren't as big a deal as theyare now and it was owners/chairmen who raised the profile of coaches to managers in order to take attention away from themselves
Need to see changes in the rest defence, set piece coverage and defensive organisation in open play.
We’re getting players back from injury and others with fitness concerns should be close to match ready. So, we also need to see a higher tempo with the ball, an improved intensity without it and the ability to sustain those levels throughout the match.
I think he’s a good coach but not a great manager. Coming in as Head Coach with our new modern set up, that should work in his favour. We’ve had a bad start but that’s not Appletons fault so I’m reserving judgement. Let’s see how close or how far we are from that 20 point target after 5pm 7th October.
Well trust Michael Appleton settles in very quickly. Hope within hope he can bring his own staff in to work with. Hotel or living out of a suitcase can be no fun with no one around you you can trust. Off to watch Stevenage today is at least a start but who goes with him Scott? Here once again lies the problem SMT.
Best of luck Michael you are going to need it.
Good point. Maybe Anthony Hayes will be at Stevenage with MA. They probably need to do lots of this type of thing too from their scouting and in the coming weeks and months -
you may have noticed that we, the fan base, are not yet 100% behind your appointment. A man with your muscles probably doesn’t have to worry what other people think of them, but here’s a suggested 5 point plan to get us onside anyway:
1. win the next 4 games 2. Never use the word ‘project’ 3. Be caught in a hot-mic moment describing CM as ‘a bit of a prick’ 4. give Steve Evans a twatting when the chubby chancer starts having a go. Keep glaring at him rather than the ref’s inevitable red card as you make your way to the directors box 5. actually, that will do for me
I have watched his interview, heard what he has to say, and read comments about what he is supposed to be good at.
One has been good at working with and developing young players.
Eh?
Like Elerewe, Mitchell, Chin, Henry, Anderson, Campbell, Asimwe, Maynard Brewer, Leaburn, Ness, Kanu (and others on the way like Bower, Rylah, Laqeretabua etc) have they not been worked with, developed and given their chances already?
Yeah right.
In terms of Charlton Athletic’s need, unearthing and deploying our young talent has been going fine thank you very much, what on earth can Appleton add to what’s been going on already?
I call bollocks on the work with youngsters mantra, unless I am missing something obvious.
No Appleton, it is not about getting with the project and agreeing with where the opaque ownership want us to go, the so called developing youngsters.
No Mr Appleton, your entire raison d’etre at Charlton is to WIN.
Starting away at Stevenage on Saturday, then Wycombe at home, then Shrewsbury away, then Exeter and your old club Blackpool both at home, then Derby away, Reading at home and another of your old clubs Lincoln City away.
Appleton you’re not needed to help the development of our youngsters, that is bollocks being thrown around by the Shamocracy salivating about getting our young players to a point of being able to sell them. They might want you to fatten up the cash cows, but we the supporters want you to win matches, over and over again.
Get those wins and a conversation can start. Lose or draw at Stevenage and in my eyes you will have to have a Rhino hide (which judging by that vapid interview I think you already have) because I will not be the only one wanting you gone.
so if we don't win at Stevenage you want him gone? Wow. Just wow. You are fast approaching RonnieMoore levels of WUMMING arn't you?
If we win at Stevenage that will add up to three points from three away games. That then leaves the six points dropped at home to make up. If we lose at Stevenage that leaves us nine points to make up (in my target for automatic promotion). So the best way to shut me up is for Michael Appleton to win at Stevenage. I know I am in a minority in my stance, most people want to give this circus a chance which means a longer term tolerance than I feel like giving. My tolerance level is short term, so the argument might be where is the breaking point for you and others. I have at least marked out my territory, wins and promotion.
I generally respect your views but this is just irrational. It's not about giving the circus a chance, it is about recognising that there is no manager in existence that will get this team, as it is, to win eight games on the bounce, and Michael Appleton has no responsibility for where the club has been. Yes let's judge him by his outcomes, but what you are doing is setting impossible outcomes so that you can justify calling for him to be sacked.
And "the best way to shut me up" is a bit silly. No-one that can take action knows or cares and if you want to become like another poster who draws a lot of fire carry on, but that would be a shame. If we draw or lose at Stevenage, who are currently 3rd with four wins, one draw and one loss from 6 you'll be claiming your position is justified, but that will only be by your own unreasonable parameters, and if we win I suppose you will say the jury is out or some such.
Also the implication that you are taking some brave position on expectations and that other fans are just happy to bumble along with failure is a misunderstanding of how much your expectations affect the outcomes you want. All it effects is other posters on this lovely, but probably not that influential internet forum.
If we lose at Stevenage (a place I saw us win in the cup last season) I am likely to say ‘Holden could’ve delivered that’.
I have watched his interview, heard what he has to say, and read comments about what he is supposed to be good at.
One has been good at working with and developing young players.
Eh?
Like Elerewe, Mitchell, Chin, Henry, Anderson, Campbell, Asimwe, Maynard Brewer, Leaburn, Ness, Kanu (and others on the way like Bower, Rylah, Laqeretabua etc) have they not been worked with, developed and given their chances already?
Yeah right.
In terms of Charlton Athletic’s need, unearthing and deploying our young talent has been going fine thank you very much, what on earth can Appleton add to what’s been going on already?
I call bollocks on the work with youngsters mantra, unless I am missing something obvious.
No Appleton, it is not about getting with the project and agreeing with where the opaque ownership want us to go, the so called developing youngsters.
No Mr Appleton, your entire raison d’etre at Charlton is to WIN.
Starting away at Stevenage on Saturday, then Wycombe at home, then Shrewsbury away, then Exeter and your old club Blackpool both at home, then Derby away, Reading at home and another of your old clubs Lincoln City away.
Appleton you’re not needed to help the development of our youngsters, that is bollocks being thrown around by the Shamocracy salivating about getting our young players to a point of being able to sell them. They might want you to fatten up the cash cows, but we the supporters want you to win matches, over and over again.
Get those wins and a conversation can start. Lose or draw at Stevenage and in my eyes you will have to have a Rhino hide (which judging by that vapid interview I think you already have) because I will not be the only one wanting you gone.
so if we don't win at Stevenage you want him gone? Wow. Just wow. You are fast approaching RonnieMoore levels of WUMMING arn't you?
If we win at Stevenage that will add up to three points from three away games. That then leaves the six points dropped at home to make up. If we lose at Stevenage that leaves us nine points to make up (in my target for automatic promotion). So the best way to shut me up is for Michael Appleton to win at Stevenage. I know I am in a minority in my stance, most people want to give this circus a chance which means a longer term tolerance than I feel like giving. My tolerance level is short term, so the argument might be where is the breaking point for you and others. I have at least marked out my territory, wins and promotion.
I generally respect your views but this is just irrational. It's not about giving the circus a chance, it is about recognising that there is no manager in existence that will get this team, as it is, to win eight games on the bounce, and Michael Appleton has no responsibility for where the club has been. Yes let's judge him by his outcomes, but what you are doing is setting impossible outcomes so that you can justify calling for him to be sacked.
And "the best way to shut me up" is a bit silly. No-one that can take action knows or cares and if you want to become like another poster who draws a lot of fire carry on, but that would be a shame. If we draw or lose at Stevenage, who are currently 3rd with four wins, one draw and one loss from 6 you'll be claiming your position is justified, but that will only be by your own unreasonable parameters, and if we win I suppose you will say the jury is out or some such.
Also the implication that you are taking some brave position on expectations and that other fans are just happy to bumble along with failure is a misunderstanding of how much your expectations affect the outcomes you want. All it effects is other posters on this lovely, but probably not that influential internet forum.
If we lose at Stevenage (a place I saw us win in the cup last season) I am likely to say ‘Holden could’ve delivered that’.
I would bet a whole shilling that like most of us you will have more than that to say 😉
I think Appleton will be a good appointment. Our success will depend purely on how we are defensively. For some reason Ness/Hector are both struggling more than last season.
IMO the team needs to be set up around May/Leaburn partnership. Both are capable of getting to 20+ goals even in a bad side.
Obviously Appleton will need a lot of luck especially on the injury front, but if he can get us to double figure clean sheets then we will fighting for the top 6.
Very clever of Charlie Methvan to use Seth Plum to spread irrational rants about, and set unrealistic targets for, Appleton so normal people start to feel sorry for the new boss.
That leads to them seeing him a little bit more sympathetically and giving him more time.
Charlie may not be a great owner but his PR skills are clear.
I have never communicated with Charlie Methven in any way, nor he me. Nor have I commented on the footballing ability of the new boss. I remain in the ‘judge them on results’ category that was fashionable not long ago.
I have never communicated with Charlie Methven in any way, nor he me. Nor have I commented on the footballing ability of the new boss. I remain in the ‘judge them on results’ category that was fashionable not long ago.
You’re taking Henry’s ‘Just win matches’ to its illogical conclusion.
I'll keep open mind. He's the Charlton Head Coach and until there's reason to do otherwise he should have our support. The image we have has been the character mocked in our threads so did some googling to see how well it is justified. There's an interesting 2021 interview in The Athletic on his career and the negative baggage he's had to carry https://theathletic.com/2421847/2021/03/03/michael-appleton-i-fell-foul-of-not-doing-proper-due-diligence-on-people-i-worked-with/ Googled the local papers for Oxford and Lincoln when he left and they were positive:
Quote Oxford Fans
“We had an identity and a way of playing football. I’m completely disappointed, really gutted to be honest, that it’s happened the way it has.
“He was an absolute gentlemen, a lovely bloke to talk to and a lot of people respected him.”
Lincoln Local paper "Supported by the club’s recruitment team, Appleton made some outstanding signings, producing the best City side in 40 years, which didn’t just win regularly, but did so in style."
"On a personal level, Appleton has been a pleasure to deal with, always open and honest with the media. He’s clearly a talented manager and coach, and after a well-earned break to recharge his batteries, it would be no surprise to see him back in the game very soon, possibly on the coaching staff at a higher-level club."
No guarantees with us but seems the pre-conceived perceptions from may not be entirely justified. However, seems "basket case" clubs where he's bombed attract him.
I have never communicated with Charlie Methven in any way, nor he me. Nor have I commented on the footballing ability of the new boss. I remain in the ‘judge them on results’ category that was fashionable not long ago.
Except the results you want to judge him by are quite frankly ridiculous.
I have never communicated with Charlie Methven in any way, nor he me. Nor have I commented on the footballing ability of the new boss. I remain in the ‘judge them on results’ category that was fashionable not long ago.
Except the results you want to judge him by are quite frankly ridiculous.
You have to start somewhere. So let Stevenage be the first indicator.
I have never communicated with Charlie Methven in any way, nor he me. Nor have I commented on the footballing ability of the new boss. I remain in the ‘judge them on results’ category that was fashionable not long ago.
Except the results you want to judge him by are quite frankly ridiculous.
You have to start somewhere. So let Stevenage be the first indicator.
Rather than the second indicator? It’s almost like you’d like us to lose so you can be proved ‘right’.
Would love for Scott Fraser to answer this question. Was Appleton the best manager available, or the only manager that would take the job, at the salary on offer?
We know (as does the footballing world) there is no money to be made in tier 3 & 4 football, so the owners must be in it for the fun. see Wrexham. Whatever the new guys invested is lost. Any more investment will also be lost. Get used to it.
Don’t think Scott Fraser was involved in the recruitment process…
I have never communicated with Charlie Methven in any way, nor he me. Nor have I commented on the footballing ability of the new boss. I remain in the ‘judge them on results’ category that was fashionable not long ago.
Except the results you want to judge him by are quite frankly ridiculous.
You have to start somewhere. So let Stevenage be the first indicator.
Okay here's a hypothetical for you. We play Stevenage (who are in good form right now) and (somehow) Appleton has managed to get the team properly organised. The defence are solid, we have more possessions and shots etc. By every measure we are the better side.
Except the Stevenage keeper has a blinder and manages to keep a clean sheet and then at the end of the game a fluke ricochet hits one of our defenders and goes in. We lose by 1 goal.
I have never communicated with Charlie Methven in any way, nor he me. Nor have I commented on the footballing ability of the new boss. I remain in the ‘judge them on results’ category that was fashionable not long ago.
Except the results you want to judge him by are quite frankly ridiculous.
You have to start somewhere. So let Stevenage be the first indicator.
Okay here's a hypothetical for you. We play Stevenage and (somehow) Appleton has managed to get the team properly organised. The defence are solid, we have more possessions and shots etc. By every measure we are the better side.
Except the Stevenage keeper has a blinder and manages to keep a clean sheet and then at the end of the game a fluke ricochet hits one of our defenders and goes in. We lose by 1 goal.
Comments
Makes it pointless to be talking about the manager when it's the squad that's the issue.
Welcome Michael. Hope Louis asks you about the meme and that you're fully aware you're starting your reign as a joke. Good luck
You said it, @bromleyjohn . You're right, of course. That's how it used to be.
The manager worked behind the scenes, maybe a quote to the local reporter, etc. ...... and was allowed just to get on with his job.
In this internet age ..... it's us the football fans, with our extreme expectation and sense of entitlement to know everything instantly; 24/7 speculation and sometimes hysterical over-analysis of the minutest detail on social media, which is creating the situations of today. Not just Charlton fans, but fans at every club throughout the divisions. I mean, in the Prem it's even more exposed in the glare of media saturation.
The villification of Appleton is ridiculous.
He's been appointed to the job. Let him get on with it to justify his appointment.
Why are some people so quick to judge and condemn him, before a ball has been kicked? Based on what?
Give the man a chance.
If he does a good job, then he stays. If the results don't come, he'll be gone soon enough.
Only 3 teams have conceded more goals than us this year and one of them conceded 7 in one game. If we swapped out our whole defence say with Carlisle's who have only conceded 6 goals and had them playing under Holden we'd have probably conceded the most amount of goals in the division by far.
I heard that managers way back when weren't as big a deal as they are now and it was owners/chairmen who raised the profile of coaches to managers in order to take attention away from themselves
From the evidence of our defensive frailties so far, top six is a distant possibility, but I'm banking on anyone semi competent, and I believe Appleton is that, to organise it better and make us harder to beat as a priority. We go from there, but there's a long way to go and masses of points up for grabs. Don't underestimate how much confidence can play a part too, and, if we get a new manager bounce, that should pick up.
I've just posted a few thoughts on our ongoing ownership tribulations you've alluded to on the Charlie's Angels thread or whatever it's called.
Need to see changes in the rest defence, set piece coverage and defensive organisation in open play.
So, we also need to see a higher tempo with the ball, an improved intensity without it and the ability to sustain those levels throughout the match.
you may have noticed that we, the fan base, are not yet 100% behind your appointment. A man with your muscles probably doesn’t have to worry what other people think of them, but here’s a suggested 5 point plan to get us onside anyway:
1. win the next 4 games
2. Never use the word ‘project’
3. Be caught in a hot-mic moment describing CM as ‘a bit of a prick’
4. give Steve Evans a twatting when the chubby chancer starts having a go. Keep glaring at him rather than the ref’s inevitable red card as you make your way to the directors box
5. actually, that will do for me
Not yet yours,
RMN
Must be a fair chance he will be up in the stands for most of the season
Evans is a decent manager whose team outplayed us last season in the cup, should have beaten us if it was not for some individual class from Aneke.
A tough start for Appleton but hopefully his team rise to the occasion.
That leads to them seeing him a little bit more sympathetically and giving him more time.
Charlie may not be a great owner but his PR skills are clear.
Nor have I commented on the footballing ability of the new boss.
I remain in the ‘judge them on results’ category that was fashionable not long ago.
Googled the local papers for Oxford and Lincoln when he left and they were positive:
Quote Oxford Fans
“We had an identity and a way of playing football. I’m completely disappointed, really gutted to be honest, that it’s happened the way it has.
“He was an absolute gentlemen, a lovely bloke to talk to and a lot of people respected him.”
Lincoln Local paper"Supported by the club’s recruitment team, Appleton made some outstanding signings, producing the best City side in 40 years, which didn’t just win regularly, but did so in style."
"On a personal level, Appleton has been a pleasure to deal with, always open and honest with the media. He’s clearly a talented manager and coach, and after a well-earned break to recharge his batteries, it would be no surprise to see him back in the game very soon, possibly on the coaching staff at a higher-level club."
No guarantees with us but seems the pre-conceived perceptions from may not be entirely justified. However, seems "basket case" clubs where he's bombed attract him.
Appleton Out
Except the Stevenage keeper has a blinder and manages to keep a clean sheet and then at the end of the game a fluke ricochet hits one of our defenders and goes in. We lose by 1 goal.
Is that a good result or a bad one?
Bad