With all the fuss about how good he is with young players, the cynic in me says he’s been brought in to develop and sell our youth and little else.
I also don't understand the 'good with young players' perception.
I think every manager can say they're good at bringing youth through?
They are trained in the youth system, they get recommended to the first team, if they do well enough they make it, if they don't they stay there.
Every professional football club produces youth at every level so you could argue almost every coach promotes younger players.
Would be pretty daft to not start a player if he was good at football, regardless of age.
Sound bite stuff, just like 'the project' and 'experience in this league'.
There are some managers who are much less willing to give young players a chance, though.
Of course there will be managers less inclined to start younger players as they may be more old school in their ways, but I doubt there's a club manager (or head coach) across the 92 who would ignore a player at the club just because they're young. I just think it's a bit of a cliché is all
Old school in there ways? Playing young players isn't some recent phenomenon.
Ironically the best way to encourage a manager to play youngsters is not not sack them every six months.
With all the fuss about how good he is with young players, the cynic in me says he’s been brought in to develop and sell our youth and little else.
I also don't understand the 'good with young players' perception.
I think every manager can say they're good at bringing youth through?
They are trained in the youth system, they get recommended to the first team, if they do well enough they make it, if they don't they stay there.
Every professional football club produces youth at every level so you could argue almost every coach promotes younger players.
Would be pretty daft to not start a player if he was good at football, regardless of age.
Sound bite stuff, just like 'the project' and 'experience in this league'.
There are some managers who are much less willing to give young players a chance, though.
Of course there will be managers less inclined to start younger players as they may be more old school in their ways, but I doubt there's a club manager (or head coach) across the 92 who would ignore a player at the club just because they're young. I just think it's a bit of a cliché is all
Old school in there ways? Playing young players isn't some recent phenomenon.
Ironically the best way to encourage a manager to play youngsters is not not sack them every six months.
I didn't say it was, just that there are older types of managers who opt for experienced/journeyed players.
The other way is to avoid spending money on experienced players in the transfer window, so they balanced it out tbf
Very good read interesting comments re Edun and McGrandles
If the bloke can get a team into the playoffs with McGrandles in midfield he must be some sort of miracle worker
In all fairness to McGrandles I still don’t think we have seen enough of him to judge.He was good at Lincoln and did well on loan to Cambridge He might yet suprise us all
With all the fuss about how good he is with young players, the cynic in me says he’s been brought in to develop and sell our youth and little else.
I also don't understand the 'good with young players' perception.
I think every manager can say they're good at bringing youth through?
They are trained in the youth system, they get recommended to the first team, if they do well enough they make it, if they don't they stay there.
Every professional football club produces youth at every level so you could argue almost every coach promotes younger players.
Would be pretty daft to not start a player if he was good at football, regardless of age.
Sound bite stuff, just like 'the project' and 'experience in this league'.
There are some managers who are much less willing to give young players a chance, though.
Of course there will be managers less inclined to start younger players as they may be more old school in their ways, but I doubt there's a club manager (or head coach) across the 92 who would ignore a player at the club just because they're young. I just think it's a bit of a cliché is all
Old school in there ways? Playing young players isn't some recent phenomenon.
Ironically the best way to encourage a manager to play youngsters is not not sack them every six months.
I didn't say it was, just that there are older types of managers who opt for experienced/journeyed players.
The other way is to avoid spending money on experienced players in the transfer window, so they balanced it out tbf
I really don't know what you actually mean about "older types" of managers.
And to be champions usually requires between 94 and 100 points. About another 88 points to win. Starting with the vital three points away at Stevenage next Saturday.
I admire your tenacity Seth
I am sick of this fourth successive season watching our club playing at this level. I suspect everybody else is.
The clutter of our club is complex and embarrassing and depressing, so I have decided it would be good to focus on what the latest regime delivers, and I want them to deliver automatic promotion.
I am sneered at for that by some, like when I say we should win the next eight games in a row. But those games won would create a platform for automatic promotion before it is simply too late once again.
At the moment the regime is miles away from getting us automatic promotion, for that reason what they have done so far deserves scrutiny and where appropriate criticism.
Additionally when they go on and on about young player development it suggests they have not been developing fine already, but they have haven’t they? The young player manoeuvre also acts as a way of distracting fans from the real prize, which I repeat is automatic promotion.
This lot decided for some mysterious and suspicious reason to acquire Charlton Athletic Football Club. Billionaires no less so we are led to believe, so my apparent tenacity is to see if our experts backed by billions can deliver the promotion we all want.
Two league wins and four defeats so far suggests to me they are failing. A win at Stevenage would represent one step on the road to success.
So we are all sick of this league, we all want promotion, we all have concerns about the over reliance on youth and there’s no mystery about the new regime, who have no doubt been sold a very rosey picture of how easy it is to get promoted by Charlie. I don’t think anyone has sneered at you (disagreeing isn’t sneering) and advocating that we should give a new manager, any new manager, one game to turn the team is extreme. To suggest winning 8 on the trot is a reasonable or realistic target is equally extreme.
I strongly suspect that what you really want is an argument attention.
Gives an idea on what Charlton supporters might expect.
Sounds like he's a good coach but maybe more flawed as a manager, as paradoxical as that sounds. Good at developing and training players but not really much of a tactician.
Which honestly? Shouldn't actually really be much of a problem. Get May and Leaburn fit at the same time and goals will come. Give the defence a deserved kick up the arse and get them to focus and he won't NEED to be a Pep style genius to get decent results.
I don't get what Pep does to be labelled a genius. He has pretty much worked with the worlds top players everywhere at every club he has been at.
The founding father of tiki taka, or at least the man who honed it into a successful style of play. His approach to football has changed the modern game and are copied at nearly all levels. He's still adapting and changing every season to try and stay ahead.
IMO he's changed the English game immeasurably and he's why we've got teams at L2-level and below playing possession-based football.
Yes, that's what I thought. And then I bumped into a Leeds Vs Southampton game from March 1972. The Leeds press was a real eye-opener as was their swift accurate passing and movement. And then what next? Norman Hunter on the left wing to put in a perfect cross for the striker to head home. Except it wasn't Mick Jones or Alan Clarke but Jack Charlton. Perhaps Pep got the ideas from Don Revie?
Gives an idea on what Charlton supporters might expect.
Sounds like he's a good coach but maybe more flawed as a manager, as paradoxical as that sounds. Good at developing and training players but not really much of a tactician.
Which honestly? Shouldn't actually really be much of a problem. Get May and Leaburn fit at the same time and goals will come. Give the defence a deserved kick up the arse and get them to focus and he won't NEED to be a Pep style genius to get decent results.
I don't get what Pep does to be labelled a genius. He has pretty much worked with the worlds top players everywhere at every club he has been at.
The founding father of tiki taka, or at least the man who honed it into a successful style of play. His approach to football has changed the modern game and are copied at nearly all levels. He's still adapting and changing every season to try and stay ahead.
IMO he's changed the English game immeasurably and he's why we've got teams at L2-level and below playing possession-based football.
playing out from the back didn’t go to well when Garner was in charge
Gives an idea on what Charlton supporters might expect.
Sounds like he's a good coach but maybe more flawed as a manager, as paradoxical as that sounds. Good at developing and training players but not really much of a tactician.
Which honestly? Shouldn't actually really be much of a problem. Get May and Leaburn fit at the same time and goals will come. Give the defence a deserved kick up the arse and get them to focus and he won't NEED to be a Pep style genius to get decent results.
I don't get what Pep does to be labelled a genius. He has pretty much worked with the worlds top players everywhere at every club he has been at.
The founding father of tiki taka, or at least the man who honed it into a successful style of play. His approach to football has changed the modern game and are copied at nearly all levels. He's still adapting and changing every season to try and stay ahead.
IMO he's changed the English game immeasurably and he's why we've got teams at L2-level and below playing possession-based football.
Yes, that's what I thought. And then I bumped into a Leeds Vs Southampton game from March 1972. The Leeds press was a real eye-opener as was their swift accurate passing and movement. And then what next? Norman Hunter on the left wing to put in a perfect cross for the striker to head home. Except it wasn't Mick Jones or Alan Clarke but Jack Charlton. Perhaps Pep got the ideas from Don Revie?
Spain started playing tiki taka after they got knocked out of the 2006 world cup and dropped Raul and Guti.
To claim that Pep invented it is completely wrong, and I don't think @Chunes was, but he probably perfected it, despite him saying its not tiki taka at all.
Very good read interesting comments re Edun and McGrandles
If the bloke can get a team into the playoffs with McGrandles in midfield he must be some sort of miracle worker
In all fairness to McGrandles I still don’t think we have seen enough of him to judge.He was good at Lincoln and did well on loan to Cambridge He might yet suprise us all
A lot of Lifers thought Dobbo a dud early on.
I remember reading that one Sunderland fan had said he was "a disaster of a player" and it was "like watching a dog chasing a balloon!" I don't pay much heed of other fans opinions and prefer to make up my own mind. Same with managers.
Gives an idea on what Charlton supporters might expect.
Sounds like he's a good coach but maybe more flawed as a manager, as paradoxical as that sounds. Good at developing and training players but not really much of a tactician.
Which honestly? Shouldn't actually really be much of a problem. Get May and Leaburn fit at the same time and goals will come. Give the defence a deserved kick up the arse and get them to focus and he won't NEED to be a Pep style genius to get decent results.
I don't get what Pep does to be labelled a genius. He has pretty much worked with the worlds top players everywhere at every club he has been at.
The founding father of tiki taka, or at least the man who honed it into a successful style of play. His approach to football has changed the modern game and are copied at nearly all levels. He's still adapting and changing every season to try and stay ahead.
IMO he's changed the English game immeasurably and he's why we've got teams at L2-level and below playing possession-based football.
Yes, that's what I thought. And then I bumped into a Leeds Vs Southampton game from March 1972. The Leeds press was a real eye-opener as was their swift accurate passing and movement. And then what next? Norman Hunter on the left wing to put in a perfect cross for the striker to head home. Except it wasn't Mick Jones or Alan Clarke but Jack Charlton. Perhaps Pep got the ideas from Don Revie?
With all the fuss about how good he is with young players, the cynic in me says he’s been brought in to develop and sell our youth and little else.
I also don't understand the 'good with young players' perception.
I think every manager can say they're good at bringing youth through?
They are trained in the youth system, they get recommended to the first team, if they do well enough they make it, if they don't they stay there.
Every professional football club produces youth at every level so you could argue almost every coach promotes younger players.
Would be pretty daft to not start a player if he was good at football, regardless of age.
Sound bite stuff, just like 'the project' and 'experience in this league'.
There are some managers who are much less willing to give young players a chance, though.
Of course there will be managers less inclined to start younger players as they may be more old school in their ways, but I doubt there's a club manager (or head coach) across the 92 who would ignore a player at the club just because they're young. I just think it's a bit of a cliché is all
Old school in there ways? Playing young players isn't some recent phenomenon.
Ironically the best way to encourage a manager to play youngsters is not not sack them every six months.
I didn't say it was, just that there are older types of managers who opt for experienced/journeyed players.
The other way is to avoid spending money on experienced players in the transfer window, so they balanced it out tbf
I really don't know what you actually mean about "older types" of managers.
Harry Rednapp springs to mind. Always seemed to recruit players on their way down, but I agree that is not an “older type”, just a manager looking to make a quick fix. Understandable given how little time they are given. Developing players is code for selling to break even or move forward IMO
With all the fuss about how good he is with young players, the cynic in me says he’s been brought in to develop and sell our youth and little else.
I also don't understand the 'good with young players' perception.
I think every manager can say they're good at bringing youth through?
They are trained in the youth system, they get recommended to the first team, if they do well enough they make it, if they don't they stay there.
Every professional football club produces youth at every level so you could argue almost every coach promotes younger players.
Would be pretty daft to not start a player if he was good at football, regardless of age.
Sound bite stuff, just like 'the project' and 'experience in this league'.
There are some managers who are much less willing to give young players a chance, though.
Of course there will be managers less inclined to start younger players as they may be more old school in their ways, but I doubt there's a club manager (or head coach) across the 92 who would ignore a player at the club just because they're young. I just think it's a bit of a cliché is all
Old school in there ways? Playing young players isn't some recent phenomenon.
Ironically the best way to encourage a manager to play youngsters is not not sack them every six months.
I didn't say it was, just that there are older types of managers who opt for experienced/journeyed players.
The other way is to avoid spending money on experienced players in the transfer window, so they balanced it out tbf
I really don't know what you actually mean about "older types" of managers.
Harry Rednapp springs to mind. Always seemed to recruit players on their way down, but I agree that is not an “older type”, just a manager looking to make a quick fix. Understandable given how little time they are given. Developing players is code for selling to break even or move forward IMO
The Rednapp that brought through Lampard, Cole, Rio, De Foe et al?
If your job is for six months to avoid relegation your not going to risk giving youth a chance are you?
The only, recent, Charlton manager I can remember not playing youth players much is Jackson, quite probably because he didn't have any.
Having listened to Appleton & Scott interviews with particular reference to Appleton mentioning the project.
It is quite simple if the project priority is to develop young players along with seniors to create a promotion team asap then fans will stick with you.
If the project priority is solely to develop young players to be sold on and promotion a hopeful by-product then expect a back lash from fans.
The depth of frustration and general feeling appears we have all had enough of the crap thrown our way, so if it is the latter, in the wise words of @blackpool72 You can both fuck the fuck off with your SMT.
Gives an idea on what Charlton supporters might expect.
Sounds like he's a good coach but maybe more flawed as a manager, as paradoxical as that sounds. Good at developing and training players but not really much of a tactician.
Which honestly? Shouldn't actually really be much of a problem. Get May and Leaburn fit at the same time and goals will come. Give the defence a deserved kick up the arse and get them to focus and he won't NEED to be a Pep style genius to get decent results.
I don't get what Pep does to be labelled a genius. He has pretty much worked with the worlds top players everywhere at every club he has been at.
The founding father of tiki taka, or at least the man who honed it into a successful style of play. His approach to football has changed the modern game and are copied at nearly all levels. He's still adapting and changing every season to try and stay ahead.
IMO he's changed the English game immeasurably and he's why we've got teams at L2-level and below playing possession-based football.
playing out from the back didn’t go to well when Garner was in charge
Worked pretty well for McKenna and Ipswich though. Probably because they signed some players for it instead of having Inniss and Lavelle in the squad trying to play it out from the back
Very good read interesting comments re Edun and McGrandles
If the bloke can get a team into the playoffs with McGrandles in midfield he must be some sort of miracle worker
In all fairness to McGrandles I still don’t think we have seen enough of him to judge.He was good at Lincoln and did well on loan to Cambridge He might yet suprise us all
Very good read interesting comments re Edun and McGrandles
If the bloke can get a team into the playoffs with McGrandles in midfield he must be some sort of miracle worker
In all fairness to McGrandles I still don’t think we have seen enough of him to judge.He was good at Lincoln and did well on loan to Cambridge He might yet suprise us all
A lot of Lifers thought Dobbo a dud early on.
Because he was
Dobbo stepped up a gear (or 6) when Adkins left. NA really didn't seem to rate him.
Very good read interesting comments re Edun and McGrandles
If the bloke can get a team into the playoffs with McGrandles in midfield he must be some sort of miracle worker
In all fairness to McGrandles I still don’t think we have seen enough of him to judge.He was good at Lincoln and did well on loan to Cambridge He might yet suprise us all
A lot of Lifers thought Dobbo a dud early on.
Because he was
Bit harsh JB. Gave a goal away when he and … thingy… collided.
Was ok-ish apart from that, I thought. But he improved and looks to have improved again in the first two or three games this season.
Very good read interesting comments re Edun and McGrandles
If the bloke can get a team into the playoffs with McGrandles in midfield he must be some sort of miracle worker
In all fairness to McGrandles I still don’t think we have seen enough of him to judge.He was good at Lincoln and did well on loan to Cambridge He might yet suprise us all
A lot of Lifers thought Dobbo a dud early on.
Because he was
Bit harsh. Gave a goal away when he and … thingy… collided.
Was ok-ish apart from that, I thought. But he improved and looks to have improved again in the first two or three games this season.
This is the issue with a lot of fans, not just ours. If you sign a new player, get a new manager or use an academy player and they are not immediately outstanding, they’re crap. And it takes ages to get over that initial opinion.
Comments
Noticed the bottle of Jim Beam at the beginning, fear it may have taken a hammering by the time you got to the end of the podcast!
Ironically the best way to encourage a manager to play youngsters is not not sack them every six months.
The other way is to avoid spending money on experienced players in the transfer window, so they balanced it out tbf
Spain started playing tiki taka after they got knocked out of the 2006 world cup and dropped Raul and Guti.
To claim that Pep invented it is completely wrong, and I don't think @Chunes was, but he probably perfected it, despite him saying its not tiki taka at all.
Understandable given how little time they are given.
Developing players is code for selling to break even or move forward IMO
If your job is for six months to avoid relegation your not going to risk giving youth a chance are you?
The only, recent, Charlton manager I can remember not playing youth players much is Jackson, quite probably because he didn't have any.
It is quite simple if the project priority is to develop young players along with seniors to create a promotion team asap then fans will stick with you.
If the project priority is solely to develop young players to be sold on and promotion a hopeful by-product then expect a back lash from fans.
The depth of frustration and general feeling appears we have all had enough of the crap thrown our way, so if it is the latter, in the wise words of @blackpool72 You can both fuck the fuck off with your SMT.
Yep I am having a bad day.
Disclaimer I didn't go through both bottles, just the one