posted without reading all the previous, so apologies if any duplicaiton, but today it was announced that China purchaed 204.97 Million tonnes of coal in the 5 months this year, make you feel good about not having plastic straws..!
Completely spurious argument and only used as an excuse for deliberate inaction.
2 factors in this: - China is actually racing ahead in green technology and energy production. They have realised this is the way the world needs to go and are investing massively in this. They are very quickly ramping down the use of coal and gas. There are still opportunities for us to benefit from this and have a green led economic boom but we need to act quickly and seize these opportunities. China have realised this and are hoping for first mover advantage to become the world leader in this. Sadly we are letting ideological beliefs on climate led by the tory party and people like Farage stop us from benefiting from these opportunities. - The signalling effects of every decision you take should not be underestimated in the impact they can have on large corporations and on governments is huge. If you consider the environment in your purchasing decisions then corporations will follow what the consumer wants similarly governments will understand it is a big issue for voters and business and reflect it on policy. So saying that recycling or buying the recyclable or sustainably sourced option doesn't matter "because China" is massively missing the point. Those small actions can have massive impacts. the more people who do them the bigger the impact.
posted without reading all the previous, so apologies if any duplicaiton, but today it was announced that China purchaed 204.97 Million tonnes of coal in the 5 months this year, make you feel good about not having plastic straws..!
Completely spurious argument and only used as an excuse for deliberate inaction.
2 factors in this: - China is actually racing ahead in green technology and energy production. They have realised this is the way the world needs to go and are investing massively in this. They are very quickly ramping down the use of coal and gas. There are still opportunities for us to benefit from this and have a green led economic boom but we need to act quickly and seize these opportunities. China have realised this and are hoping for first mover advantage to become the world leader in this. Sadly we are letting ideological beliefs on climate led by the tory party and people like Farage stop us from benefiting from these opportunities. - The signalling effects of every decision you take should not be underestimated in the impact they can have on large corporations and on governments is huge. If you consider the environment in your purchasing decisions then corporations will follow what the consumer wants similarly governments will understand it is a big issue for voters and business and reflect it on policy. So saying that recycling or buying the recyclable or sustainably sourced option doesn't matter "because China" is massively missing the point. Those small actions can have massive impacts. the more people who do them the bigger the impact.
Couldn't agree more, but you will no doubt have heard it said that if we all do a little, that's all we'll achieve. Some use that as an argument not to bother, but it really isn't. If everyone can be seen to be taking it seriously and doing their bit, then the policy setters who make the really big decisions that do make a huge difference will take note. If they see apathy, well why would they bother. The public gets what the public wants.
Edit - and if it gets too hot, we might all end up going underground. We're all in a Jam.
posted without reading all the previous, so apologies if any duplicaiton, but today it was announced that China purchaed 204.97 Million tonnes of coal in the 5 months this year, make you feel good about not having plastic straws..!
I always feel that China gets a bit of a raw deal in all this. Their consumption is high but their consumption per person is less than many places like Germany and about half that of Australia.
China's internal level of consumer consumption is actually incredibly small, one of the main reasons it is going through the problems it currently is.
We import their products and export our emissions.
Even more reason why we should be at net zero as quickly as possible, most of the stuff we buy is made somewhere else so how difficult can it be?!
Supply chain sustainability/emissions are now a high priority and being taken into account for most calculations (though as you say not the Net zero target). I was in a meeting last year with some big dogs in the environmental world and some embedded in industrial e.g. the Chief Sustainability officer of the NHS and the work being done on this is incredibly impressive.
The term global warming doesn’t do anybody any favours. Yes the global temperatures as an average are going to continue to rise but some parts of the world are going to get considerably cooler than they are now. The U.K. probably one of them.
Is it you Shooter’s Hill guru flip flopping or the scientist because you and my son Gary keep saying we’ve had 12 consecutive months of record high temperatures but now your saying we’re freezing because of global warming but we will be wearing tea shirts in February.
Which is it you can’t seem to make your mind up. Think you better consult your scientist friend.
You would have been freaking out in the summer of 76.
Sorry for bad spelling and grammar in advance. I now you 2 are super intelligent and no where to put your full stops.
I can’t help it if you’re scientifically challenged.
Edit: Sorry that’s unfair. I’ll ask you a question. Do you know what climate phenomenon keeps the U.K. as a temperate climate ? It’s the Gulf Stream. A stream of warm water that passes by the southern waters of these islands. It’s likely that if global temperature continues to increase that the Gulf Stream will either fail or alter its course. That would leave these islands without protection of the warmth it brings to us. It’s been speculated by climatologists that should that happen, the climate here would be much closer to that experienced by Scandinavia. Huge change bringing huge problems. Climate change isn’t going to make everywhere hot.
No I am challenging your science because some of the scientists challenge your scientist.
The planet has gone hot and cold since the beginning the last cold spell ending as recent as 1850 so naturally the planet has been warming.
For instance your scientist are saying co2 is causing global warming but Co2 is what plants breathe with so making crops grow and a greener planet.
I do actually agree with you that we do need to be more environmentally friendly.
I have always tried to cycle to work at least 2 times a week. Getting old now and knees aren’t as good but I still try actually got an electric bike to save the knees.
Burt the politicians bend it for there gains and people like your are to righteous and treat everyone that questions you as stupid as you are with me. doing this is why you lose support.
There are always scientists that swim against the overwhelming tide of evidence for varying reasons but there are no credible scientists that deny climate change is happening and that man is not now contributing to it.
Flip flop so your scientists are ritgh because your so righteous
Unnecessary comment about being righteous but until I see something that changes my mind I’ll continue to follow the 999 / 1000 scientists that recognise that climate change is real and being made worse by the activity of man.
No I am challenging your science because some of the scientists challenge your scientist.
The planet has gone hot and cold since the beginning the last cold spell ending as recent as 1850 so naturally the planet has been warming.
For instance your scientist are saying co2 is causing global warming but Co2 is what plants breathe with so making crops grow and a greener planet.
I do actually agree with you that we do need to be more environmentally friendly.
I have always tried to cycle to work at least 2 times a week. Getting old now and knees aren’t as good but I still try actually got an electric bike to save the knees.
Burt the politicians bend it for there gains and people like your are to righteous and treat everyone that questions you as stupid as you are with me. doing this is why you lose support.
Plants do breathe Co2, soaking it up like sponges, and humans pump only a small amount of Co2 into the atmosphere through their activities than compared to the amount produced naturally, but we also cut down too many trees, limiting the earths capacity to absorb all that comes from either source.
With Co2 being a greenhouse gas, methane being another, when levels of Co2 in the atmosphere go up, the temperature does too, so contributing to the warming effect on the planet.
The big debate now surrounds to what extent humans make the naturally occurring phenomenon of global warming worse and what we can do about it.
I hope that helps and that it doesn't come across as condescending. That's not my intent.
No I am challenging your science because some of the scientists challenge your scientist.
The planet has gone hot and cold since the beginning the last cold spell ending as recent as 1850 so naturally the planet has been warming.
For instance your scientist are saying co2 is causing global warming but Co2 is what plants breathe with so making crops grow and a greener planet.
I do actually agree with you that we do need to be more environmentally friendly.
I have always tried to cycle to work at least 2 times a week. Getting old now and knees aren’t as good but I still try actually got an electric bike to save the knees.
Burt the politicians bend it for there gains and people like your are to righteous and treat everyone that questions you as stupid as you are with me. doing this is why you lose support.
Is it you Shooter’s Hill guru flip flopping or the scientist because you and my son Gary keep saying we’ve had 12 consecutive months of record high temperatures but now your saying we’re freezing because of global warming but we will be wearing tea shirts in February.
Which is it you can’t seem to make your mind up. Think you better consult your scientist friend.
You would have been freaking out in the summer of 76.
Sorry for bad spelling and grammar in advance. I now you 2 are super intelligent and no where to put your full stops.
I can’t help it if you’re scientifically challenged.
Edit: Sorry that’s unfair. I’ll ask you a question. Do you know what climate phenomenon keeps the U.K. as a temperate climate ? It’s the Gulf Stream. A stream of warm water that passes by the southern waters of these islands. It’s likely that if global temperature continues to increase that the Gulf Stream will either fail or alter its course. That would leave these islands without protection of the warmth it brings to us. It’s been speculated by climatologists that should that happen, the climate here would be much closer to that experienced by Scandinavia. Huge change bringing huge problems. Climate change isn’t going to make everywhere hot.
Northern.
I've been interested in weather and the climate since I was at school but I'm no scientist so treat what I say with a large pinch of (sea) salt.
The Gulf Stream, also known as the Atlantic Conveyor, flows through the North and South Atlantic and then the Indian Ocean. Actually, on the surface, it's the other way round. Then, north of the UK, it sinks down an flows back again to the Indian Ocean. It takes thousands of years, I believe.
The problem seems to be where it sinks down and the mixing in of non-salty water from the an increased melting ice cap and melting snow from mountains flowing into rivers then the sea. The mixing may cause the flow to be interrupted or stopped. If this happened it could push the UK into an ice age in a matter of decades ! I sincerely hope the scientists are wrong but ....
Is it you Shooter’s Hill guru flip flopping or the scientist because you and my son Gary keep saying we’ve had 12 consecutive months of record high temperatures but now your saying we’re freezing because of global warming but we will be wearing tea shirts in February.
Which is it you can’t seem to make your mind up. Think you better consult your scientist friend.
You would have been freaking out in the summer of 76.
Sorry for bad spelling and grammar in advance. I now you 2 are super intelligent and no where to put your full stops.
I can’t help it if you’re scientifically challenged.
Edit: Sorry that’s unfair. I’ll ask you a question. Do you know what climate phenomenon keeps the U.K. as a temperate climate ? It’s the Gulf Stream. A stream of warm water that passes by the southern waters of these islands. It’s likely that if global temperature continues to increase that the Gulf Stream will either fail or alter its course. That would leave these islands without protection of the warmth it brings to us. It’s been speculated by climatologists that should that happen, the climate here would be much closer to that experienced by Scandinavia. Huge change bringing huge problems. Climate change isn’t going to make everywhere hot.
Northern.
I've been interested in weather and the climate since I was at school but I'm no scientist so treat what I say with a large pinch of (sea) salt.
The Gulf Stream, also known as the Atlantic Conveyor, flows through the North and South Atlantic and then the Indian Ocean. Actually, on the surface, it's the other way round. Then, north of the UK, it sinks down an flows back again to the Indian Ocean. It takes thousands of years, I believe.
The problem seems to be where it sinks down and the mixing in of non-salty water from the an increased melting ice cap and melting snow from mountains flowing into rivers then the sea. The mixing may cause the flow to be interrupted or stopped. If this happened it could push the UK into an ice age in a matter of decades ! I sincerely hope the scientists are wrong but ....
Ice Age? Steady the buffs Hex 🤣
I have read similar but find it hard to imagine we'd be in an ice age when elsewhere not so far away the temperatures will be unbearably hot. Typical, not tropical. Just our luck eh? 🙄
Regarding climate change. I have made up my own mind on this. At first I was sceptical. Not because I didn't believe the scientists but I needed more evidence. Over time, including evidence from my own weather station, I am completely convinced. Yes, the planet's climate has always changed but not at the current rate without the influence of a large meteor.
Because the climate changes, weather averages are usually calculated over the previous 30 years. However, now, meteorologists are adding in comparisons with more recent, shorter timeframes as well.
Deny it if you wish but please recognise you are very much in the minority and if you are wrong then we may have passed the point of no return by the time the truth dawns on you.
No I am challenging your science because some of the scientists challenge your scientist.
The planet has gone hot and cold since the beginning the last cold spell ending as recent as 1850 so naturally the planet has been warming.
For instance your scientist are saying co2 is causing global warming but Co2 is what plants breathe with so making crops grow and a greener planet.
I do actually agree with you that we do need to be more environmentally friendly.
I have always tried to cycle to work at least 2 times a week. Getting old now and knees aren’t as good but I still try actually got an electric bike to save the knees.
Burt the politicians bend it for there gains and people like your are to righteous and treat everyone that questions you as stupid as you are with me. doing this is why you lose support.
Carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas, it works just like a greenhouse and traps heat within the Earth's atmosphere. The Earth would be very much colder were there no greenhouse gases, however the balance needs to be right and since the mid 19th century man has been pumping more and more of the greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, which has disturbed that balance and now temperatures are rising.
Increasing temperatures melt the ice caps and disrupt the normal flow of wind and ocean currents, making some places hotter and some cooler. Warm air can carry more moisture, so when it does rain, it tends to be heavier and causes flooding. Rain doesn't always fall where it is needed and some places are becoming dryer and unable to support life, others are constantly flooding.
Rising sea levels make some low lying countries uninhabitable and even cities like London will flood more often unless more is done to stop. The Thames Barrier is now deployed more often than it was when first built.
It is certainly not as simple as plants needing CO2 for photosynthesis.
Regarding climate change. I have made up my own mind on this. At first I was sceptical. Not because I didn't believe the scientists but I needed more evidence. Over time, including evidence from my own weather station, I am completely convinced. Yes, the planet's climate has always changed but not at the current rate without the influence of a large meteor.
Because the climate changes, weather averages are usually calculated over the previous 30 years. However, now, meteorologists are adding in comparisons with more recent, shorter timeframes as well.
Deny it if you wish but please recognise you are very much in the minority and if you are wrong then we may have passed the point of no return by the time the truth dawns on you.
I think a vast majority now accept it's happening, so the issue is less waiting for a realisation of it than getting global unity in trying to tackle it given that many of world powers have vested interests in, at the very least, going slow to act on it, at worse, deliberately sabotaging efforts to.
Regarding climate change. I have made up my own mind on this. At first I was sceptical. Not because I didn't believe the scientists but I needed more evidence. Over time, including evidence from my own weather station, I am completely convinced. Yes, the planet's climate has always changed but not at the current rate without the influence of a large meteor.
Because the climate changes, weather averages are usually calculated over the previous 30 years. However, now, meteorologists are adding in comparisons with more recent, shorter timeframes as well.
Deny it if you wish but please recognise you are very much in the minority and if you are wrong then we may have passed the point of no return by the time the truth dawns on you.
Remember how far north we are. We shouldn't experience the 'warmth' we do. If the Gulf Stream stopped it would affect us, France to Denmark and the rest of Scandinavia and the Baltic, plus Iceland.
Regarding climate change. I have made up my own mind on this. At first I was sceptical. Not because I didn't believe the scientists but I needed more evidence. Over time, including evidence from my own weather station, I am completely convinced. Yes, the planet's climate has always changed but not at the current rate without the influence of a large meteor.
Because the climate changes, weather averages are usually calculated over the previous 30 years. However, now, meteorologists are adding in comparisons with more recent, shorter timeframes as well.
Deny it if you wish but please recognise you are very much in the minority and if you are wrong then we may have passed the point of no return by the time the truth dawns on you.
Remember how far north we are. We shouldn't experience the 'warmth' we do. If the Gulf Stream stopped it would affect us, France to Denmark and the rest of Scandinavia and the Baltic, plus Iceland.
Its just hard to comprehend, but I've read the scientists predictions as to what what happens if, as they expect, the gulf stream shuts off too and it's as you've explained. We might be getting an early taster of it at present as it's unseasonably cold and wet (we've had thunder/lightening and hail where I am today!) Not that I'm suggesting what we're experiencing at at present is anything more than temporary as we've seen it shift about before.
Where the scientists seem to struggle at the moment is assessing the pace of CC, and if anything they're getting caught out by things moving faster than they were expecting. I'm sure I read that the gulf stream might shut off anywhere between now and the end of the century (I think I posted about that earlier in the thread somewhere.) Not sure I was expecting an ice age though!!!
Edit - stayed dry in my Parkrun though. It was sunny then
Our current cool and wet conditions are due to the Jet Stream being further south than it normally is. The Gulf Stream is at present completely unaffected.
No I am challenging your science because some of the scientists challenge your scientist.
The planet has gone hot and cold since the beginning the last cold spell ending as recent as 1850 so naturally the planet has been warming.
For instance your scientist are saying co2 is causing global warming but Co2 is what plants breathe with so making crops grow and a greener planet.
I do actually agree with you that we do need to be more environmentally friendly.
I have always tried to cycle to work at least 2 times a week. Getting old now and knees aren’t as good but I still try actually got an electric bike to save the knees.
Burt the politicians bend it for there gains and people like your are to righteous and treat everyone that questions you as stupid as you are with me. doing this is why you lose support.
Which scientists is it that you're taking the word of?
There’s good and bad news about the likelihood of the Gulf Stream stopping and an ensuing ice age. The original plan was for the Tory government to set up a ‘mates’ line for the supply of snowshoes. Instead I understand SportsDirect have purchased 500 million pairs to be available online provided Royal Mail upgrade their vans to 4 wheel drive.
No I am challenging your science because some of the scientists challenge your scientist.
The planet has gone hot and cold since the beginning the last cold spell ending as recent as 1850 so naturally the planet has been warming.
For instance your scientist are saying co2 is causing global warming but Co2 is what plants breathe with so making crops grow and a greener planet.
I do actually agree with you that we do need to be more environmentally friendly.
I have always tried to cycle to work at least 2 times a week. Getting old now and knees aren’t as good but I still try actually got an electric bike to save the knees.
Burt the politicians bend it for there gains and people like your are to righteous and treat everyone that questions you as stupid as you are with me. doing this is why you lose support.
Which scientists is it that you're taking the word of?
Our current cool and wet conditions are due to the Jet Stream being further south than it normally is. The Gulf Stream is at present completely unaffected.
Got me wondering about gulf v jet stream.. Gulf stream news from 2023;
Comments
2 factors in this:
- China is actually racing ahead in green technology and energy production. They have realised this is the way the world needs to go and are investing massively in this. They are very quickly ramping down the use of coal and gas. There are still opportunities for us to benefit from this and have a green led economic boom but we need to act quickly and seize these opportunities. China have realised this and are hoping for first mover advantage to become the world leader in this. Sadly we are letting ideological beliefs on climate led by the tory party and people like Farage stop us from benefiting from these opportunities.
- The signalling effects of every decision you take should not be underestimated in the impact they can have on large corporations and on governments is huge. If you consider the environment in your purchasing decisions then corporations will follow what the consumer wants similarly governments will understand it is a big issue for voters and business and reflect it on policy. So saying that recycling or buying the recyclable or sustainably sourced option doesn't matter "because China" is massively missing the point. Those small actions can have massive impacts. the more people who do them the bigger the impact.
Edit - and if it gets too hot, we might all end up going underground. We're all in a Jam.
https://www.worldometers.info/coal/coal-consumption-by-country/
Of course Australia and China mostly use the coal to produce exports for other countries who then consume all the stuff without feeling any guilt!
But it is worrying nevertheless.
We import their products and export our emissions.
Even more reason why we should be at net zero as quickly as possible, most of the stuff we buy is made somewhere else so how difficult can it be?!
I remember one year they went searching for unseasonable woolly gloves & scarves to purchase as it was so cold !
That would have been in the 80s.
Edit: Sorry that’s unfair. I’ll ask you a question. Do you know what climate phenomenon keeps the U.K. as a temperate climate ? It’s the Gulf Stream. A stream of warm water that passes by the southern waters of these islands. It’s likely that if global temperature continues to increase that the Gulf Stream will either fail or alter its course. That would leave these islands without protection of the warmth it brings to us. It’s been speculated by climatologists that should that happen, the climate here would be much closer to that experienced by Scandinavia. Huge change bringing huge problems. Climate change isn’t going to make everywhere hot.
With Co2 being a greenhouse gas, methane being another, when levels of Co2 in the atmosphere go up, the temperature does too, so contributing to the warming effect on the planet.
The big debate now surrounds to what extent humans make the naturally occurring phenomenon of global warming worse and what we can do about it.
I hope that helps and that it doesn't come across as condescending. That's not my intent.
I've been interested in weather and the climate since I was at school but I'm no scientist so treat what I say with a large pinch of (sea) salt.
The Gulf Stream, also known as the Atlantic Conveyor, flows through the North and South Atlantic and then the Indian Ocean. Actually, on the surface, it's the other way round. Then, north of the UK, it sinks down an flows back again to the Indian Ocean. It takes thousands of years, I believe.
The problem seems to be where it sinks down and the mixing in of non-salty water from the an increased melting ice cap and melting snow from mountains flowing into rivers then the sea. The mixing may cause the flow to be interrupted or stopped. If this happened it could push the UK into an ice age in a matter of decades ! I sincerely hope the scientists are wrong but ....
I have read similar but find it hard to imagine we'd be in an ice age when elsewhere not so far away the temperatures will be unbearably hot. Typical, not tropical. Just our luck eh? 🙄
Because the climate changes, weather averages are usually calculated over the previous 30 years. However, now, meteorologists are adding in comparisons with more recent, shorter timeframes as well.
Deny it if you wish but please recognise you are very much in the minority and if you are wrong then we may have passed the point of no return by the time the truth dawns on you.
Increasing temperatures melt the ice caps and disrupt the normal flow of wind and ocean currents, making some places hotter and some cooler. Warm air can carry more moisture, so when it does rain, it tends to be heavier and causes flooding. Rain doesn't always fall where it is needed and some places are becoming dryer and unable to support life, others are constantly flooding.
Rising sea levels make some low lying countries uninhabitable and even cities like London will flood more often unless more is done to stop. The Thames Barrier is now deployed more often than it was when first built.
It is certainly not as simple as plants needing CO2 for photosynthesis.
Where the scientists seem to struggle at the moment is assessing the pace of CC, and if anything they're getting caught out by things moving faster than they were expecting. I'm sure I read that the gulf stream might shut off anywhere between now and the end of the century (I think I posted about that earlier in the thread somewhere.) Not sure I was expecting an ice age though!!!
Edit - stayed dry in my Parkrun though. It was sunny then
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jul/25/gulf-stream-could-collapse-as-early-as-2025-study-suggests
Jet stream blog article from NOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration), Jan 2022;
https://www.climate.gov/news-features/blogs/enso/what-jet-stream