It feels like we're chopping off our limbs to save the environment, whilst other countries do absolutely nothing and get richer.
Such as?
I don't mind living in a country where the government is committed to meeting climate change objectives and think more could be done by them. More can also be done by individuals taking more actions to reduce their greenhouse gas emissions.
One thing I'm sure of, slowing our efforts, or doing absolutely nothing, will only make the problems we're already seeing unfolding as a consequence of climate change worse. And if there are countries getting richer doing nothing, they'll be faced with huge costs maintaining their borders when the mass waves of climate change refugees seeking prosperous countries to go and live in, as the crisis gets worse, are forced to leave their homes.
The Americans. Higher salaries than us, own more cars than us, energy is cheap. Middle class Americans have a life middle class Brits can only dream of.
It feels like we're chopping off our limbs to save the environment, whilst other countries do absolutely nothing and get richer.
Such as?
I don't mind living in a country where the government is committed to meeting climate change objectives and think more could be done by them. More can also be done by individuals taking more actions to reduce their greenhouse gas emissions.
One thing I'm sure of, slowing our efforts, or doing absolutely nothing, will only make the problems we're already seeing unfolding as a consequence of climate change worse. And if there are countries getting richer doing nothing, they'll be faced with huge costs maintaining their borders when the mass waves of climate change refugees seeking prosperous countries to go and live in, as the crisis gets worse, are forced to leave their homes.
The Americans. Higher salaries than us, own more cars than us, energy is cheap. Middle class Americans have a life middle class Brits can only dream of.
Doesn't protect them from climate change any more than it does us. And to say they're doing "absolutely nothing" is laughable.
It feels like we're chopping off our limbs to save the environment, whilst other countries do absolutely nothing and get richer.
Such as?
I don't mind living in a country where the government is committed to meeting climate change objectives and think more could be done by them. More can also be done by individuals taking more actions to reduce their greenhouse gas emissions.
One thing I'm sure of, slowing our efforts, or doing absolutely nothing, will only make the problems we're already seeing unfolding as a consequence of climate change worse. And if there are countries getting richer doing nothing, they'll be faced with huge costs maintaining their borders when the mass waves of climate change refugees seeking prosperous countries to go and live in, as the crisis gets worse, are forced to leave their homes.
The Americans. Higher salaries than us, own more cars than us, energy is cheap. Middle class Americans have a life middle class Brits can only dream of.
Except when they run into medical and insurance challenges, and find themselves taking out a second mortgage to pay off debt. Not read around much but one source states that nearly 2/3 of 2M filings per annum for personal bankruptcy are down to o/s medical bills!
That's simply a challenge we never have to face nor think about here in the UK.
There appears to be a range of views on this topic around climate change, from doing sweet FA to embracing green tech and becoming global leaders in the area.
As posted higher up, annual natural catastrophes are causing $300BN of damage every year. And that sounds pretty high doesn't it?
Put that into context and that's just 10% of UK GDP... with global GDP being 33 x UK at $100+ TRN per year.
Saw this on a packet of ryvita from Sweden: it gives you the carbon footprint 'from field to store' (but excluding transportation for our friend to bring it over from Stockholm, along with a bottle of aquavit).
Wouldn't it be great if everything in Sainsburys had similar info?
Saw this on a packet of ryvita from Sweden: it gives you the carbon footprint 'from field to store' (but excluding transportation for our friend to bring it over from Stockholm, along with a bottle of aquavit).
Wouldn't it be great if everything in Sainsburys had similar info?
I'd like to see the same for total greenhouse emissions on packaged meat products, including the more potent Methane, and Nitrous Oxide, which are more potent in concentration than C02, so more effective in trapping heat.
My understanding is that the ever expanding animal agriculture industry contributes more to greenhouse gas emissions than the entire transport sector combined does, as revealed in the "Cowspiracy" documentary on Netflix, but the industry is protectionist of it's profit margins, so for them to display such information might not be in their interests.
Surely cutting emissions from animal agriculture should have as much focus as reducing the burning of fossil fuels! After all, the world's growing population will continue to demand meat and dairy products.
Saw a stat (might be tok tok wisdom so haven't yet verified) but it was stating that half of the world's shipping is used to simply transport fossil fuels around. Adding to that was that over 60% of fossil fuels are used in the refining and transporting of fossil fuels.
If true (a quick Google doesn't give the same combined stat but the refining and transporting separately look about right) it shows how easy it actually would be to move away from fossil fuels. We only need to replace about 40%. Maybe more like 50 if we're realistic about other forms of production to replace refining fossil fuels.
This is certainly NOT true. I used to work in the shipping market and tanker market (oil and gas) is smaller than dry cargo market (iron ore and other raw materials) and combined are considerably smaller than the container shipping market. No doubt that shipping altogether uses a lot of fossel fuel altogether. Electric ships not really realistic. Hydrogen may be a more likely way forward but quite a way off.
This is why the polar caps are melting. Look at the graph for this year sea temp- it's just gone off piste in a bad way. I'm just on tipping point myself , I may vote Green for the first time when I get the chance. The others parties will make excuses for not changing.
This is it. Some have asked if the public are willing to make sacrifices citing: Electric cars Using a bike more often Going vegan Installing solar panels Cutting down on lond distanc3 travel
None of these make the big difference needed.
A two step strategy is what’s needed:
1. Vote Green even if you disagree with their other policies and /or you’d be worse off ( although the other parties never adhere yo any promises anyway). Just vote Green.
2. When Green get ’into power’ and if they are blocked by big corporations then we have to vote again by not using their services and/or storming their headquarters with violence. They use subliminal violence so we have to do it to them overtly.
If the public don’t mass together on this and are not prepared to take radical action then the planèt is f***ed.
Pretty shitty reading this thread as someone in their 20s. I find older generations are quick enough to slag of my generation but not got the balls to own up to what their generations have done to our planet.
I find the younger generation often hypocritical. Young people today are doing the same to the planet as the generations before. Most consume more energy than we did at their age with endless gadgets to charge, and I can’t see what they do to have a lower carbon footprint. Only a small minority talk the talk AND walk the walk. More young people vote Green than older people which as I state above is imo the best thing to do but it’s hardly a huge divide, is it? Labour aren't going to be green enough, that’s for sure.
Whatever we as a country do will have no effect on the eventual outcome. Trump is looking to appoint a climate change denier to the post of overseeing the USA’s energy policy. India is turbocharging itself into a global economic force via fossil fuels. China although investing heavily in renewables is just so massive in terms of consumption of energy they are decades from reducing carbon. The best hope we have as a world is investing enormously into science and prey that the geeks can come up with a reversal plan
This is why the polar caps are melting. Look at the graph for this year sea temp- it's just gone off piste in a bad way. I'm just on tipping point myself , I may vote Green for the first time when I get the chance. The others parties will make excuses for not changing.
This is it. Some have asked if the public are willing to make sacrifices citing: Electric cars Using a bike more often Going vegan Installing solar panels Cutting down on lond distanc3 travel
None of these make the big difference needed.
A two step strategy is what’s needed:
1. Vote Green even if you disagree with their other policies and /or you’d be worse off ( although the other parties never adhere yo any promises anyway). Just vote Green.
2. When Green get ’into power’ and if they are blocked by big corporations then we have to vote again by not using their services and/or storming their headquarters with violence. They use subliminal violence so we have to do it to them overtly.
If the public don’t mass together on this and are not prepared to take radical action then the planèt is f***ed.
If you have people believe that their individual actions are futile, they won't bother to act and inconvenience themselves.
I believe the opposite. If a solution is coming, I believe it will come from the individual making such changes as I see little from the authorities, largely beholden to the giants of the industries that cause increased greenhouse gas emissions, to satisfy us, to suggest they are taking enough of a lead. It's not in their interests too money wise
I agree that a global political alignment is necessary to prevent the situation worsening, and we should be coming together to lobby them to do more, but I wouldn't let their inaction stop me from doing my bit. If I did, I'd be making the situation worse, which I'd rather not do.
This is why the polar caps are melting. Look at the graph for this year sea temp- it's just gone off piste in a bad way. I'm just on tipping point myself , I may vote Green for the first time when I get the chance. The others parties will make excuses for not changing.
This is it. Some have asked if the public are willing to make sacrifices citing: Electric cars Using a bike more often Going vegan Installing solar panels Cutting down on lond distanc3 travel
None of these make the big difference needed.
A two step strategy is what’s needed:
1. Vote Green even if you disagree with their other policies and /or you’d be worse off ( although the other parties never adhere yo any promises anyway). Just vote Green.
2. When Green get ’into power’ and if they are blocked by big corporations then we have to vote again by not using their services and/or storming their headquarters with violence. They use subliminal violence so we have to do it to them overtly.
If the public don’t mass together on this and are not prepared to take radical action then the planèt is f***ed.
If you have people believe that their in individual actions are futile, they won't bother to act and inconvenience themselves.
I believe the opposite. If a solution is coming, I believe it will come from the individual making such changes as I see little from the authorities, largely beholden to the giants of the industries that cause increased greenhouse gas emissions, to suggest they are taking enough of a lead. It's not in their interests too money wise
I agree that a global political alignment is necessary to prevent the situation worsening, and we should be coming together to lobby them to do more, but I wouldn't let their inaction stop me from doing my bit. If I did, I'd be making the situation worse, which I'd rather not do.
I agree totally mate but the key is Global action which at the moment there is very little appetite from the leaders that can make a difference.
It’s also about the basic selfishness of humans yes we might be willing to separate our rubbish to recycle etc but when it comes to the more difficult or unsavoury stuff such as turning our heating down a few degrees and putting a jumper on or changing our diet to a more locally sourced supply chain accepting that some stuff we can’t have when out of season it just will not happen in the main. im lucky that I have a place in Almeria, Spain and when you fly into the airport the view for miles below is plastic ! It’s where most of the salad, fruit and vegetables that are in Europes super markets come from. It’s now so large it’s the biggest thing that can be seen from space ! It’s also the largest polluter of plastics into the world’s oceans !
Saw a stat (might be tok tok wisdom so haven't yet verified) but it was stating that half of the world's shipping is used to simply transport fossil fuels around. Adding to that was that over 60% of fossil fuels are used in the refining and transporting of fossil fuels.
If true (a quick Google doesn't give the same combined stat but the refining and transporting separately look about right) it shows how easy it actually would be to move away from fossil fuels. We only need to replace about 40%. Maybe more like 50 if we're realistic about other forms of production to replace refining fossil fuels.
This is certainly NOT true. I used to work in the shipping market and tanker market (oil and gas) is smaller than dry cargo market (iron ore and other raw materials) and combined are considerably smaller than the container shipping market. No doubt that shipping altogether uses a lot of fossel fuel altogether. Electric ships not really realistic. Hydrogen may be a more likely way forward but quite a way off.
I know London Fire Brigade are electrifying their vehicle fleet but their fleet also includes 2 fire boats and they are going to be among the last to be converted or replaced. Hydrotreated Vegetable Oil (HVO) is already used in diesel fire engines, (increasingly, but not yet 100% i believe) though that's a different diesel to the marine type. I was told the diesel combustion engine needs no adaptations but commercial availability of HVO is the limiter.
This is why the polar caps are melting. Look at the graph for this year sea temp- it's just gone off piste in a bad way. I'm just on tipping point myself , I may vote Green for the first time when I get the chance. The others parties will make excuses for not changing.
This is it. Some have asked if the public are willing to make sacrifices citing: Electric cars Using a bike more often Going vegan Installing solar panels Cutting down on lond distanc3 travel
None of these make the big difference needed.
A two step strategy is what’s needed:
1. Vote Green even if you disagree with their other policies and /or you’d be worse off ( although the other parties never adhere yo any promises anyway). Just vote Green.
2. When Green get ’into power’ and if they are blocked by big corporations then we have to vote again by not using their services and/or storming their headquarters with violence. They use subliminal violence so we have to do it to them overtly.
If the public don’t mass together on this and are not prepared to take radical action then the planèt is f***ed.
If you have people believe that their in individual actions are futile, they won't bother to act and inconvenience themselves.
I believe the opposite. If a solution is coming, I believe it will come from the individual making such changes as I see little from the authorities, largely beholden to the giants of the industries that cause increased greenhouse gas emissions, to suggest they are taking enough of a lead. It's not in their interests too money wise
I agree that a global political alignment is necessary to prevent the situation worsening, and we should be coming together to lobby them to do more, but I wouldn't let their inaction stop me from doing my bit. If I did, I'd be making the situation worse, which I'd rather not do.
I agree totally mate but the key is Global action which at the moment there is very little appetite from the leaders that can make a difference.
It’s also about the basic selfishness of humans yes we might be willing to separate our rubbish to recycle etc but when it comes to the more difficult or unsavoury stuff such as turning our heating down a few degrees and putting a jumper on or changing our diet to a more locally sourced supply chain accepting that some stuff we can’t have when out of season it just will not happen in the main. im lucky that I have a place in Almeria, Spain and when you fly into the airport the view for miles below is plastic ! It’s where most of the salad, fruit and vegetables that are in Europes super markets come from. It’s now so large it’s the biggest thing that can be seen from space ! It's also the largest polluter of plastics into the world's oceans !
I'm pretty sure that's been reported to be discarded plastic from fishing activities (nets) as I discovered when watching the excellent "Seaspiracy" documentary on Netflix, assuming the situation hasn't changed since of course.
Severe weather alerts warning of a "significant threat to life" appeared on phones across the UK due to a testing error, the Met Office has said.
Notifications warned of severe weather events including high temperatures, snow, ice and rain in different parts of the country on Thursday. The test alerts, issued by a third party aggregator, were not intended to be seen by the public.
Comments
That's simply a challenge we never have to face nor think about here in the UK.
There appears to be a range of views on this topic around climate change, from doing sweet FA to embracing green tech and becoming global leaders in the area.
As posted higher up, annual natural catastrophes are causing $300BN of damage every year. And that sounds pretty high doesn't it?
Put that into context and that's just 10% of UK GDP... with global GDP being 33 x UK at $100+ TRN per year.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/visualizing-the-105-trillion-world-economy-in-one-chart/
How big does the Nat Cat damage forecast for 2030 have to be before the agenda shifts away from discussion and leans towards actual execution?
Wouldn't it be great if everything in Sainsburys had similar info?
My understanding is that the ever expanding animal agriculture industry contributes more to greenhouse gas emissions than the entire transport sector combined does, as revealed in the "Cowspiracy" documentary on Netflix, but the industry is protectionist of it's profit margins, so for them to display such information might not be in their interests.
Surely cutting emissions from animal agriculture should have as much focus as reducing the burning of fossil fuels! After all, the world's growing population will continue to demand meat and dairy products.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/agri-climate-report-2023/agri-climate-report-2023#:~:text=In 1996 there was a,Notes:
https://ahdb.org.uk/knowledge-library/greenhouse-gas-emissions-agriculture#:~:text=The main GHG emitted from,energy and fuel (13%).
Some have asked if the public are willing to make sacrifices citing:
Electric cars
Using a bike more often
Going vegan
Installing solar panels
Cutting down on lond distanc3 travel
None of these make the big difference needed.
A two step strategy is what’s needed:
1. Vote Green even if you disagree with their other policies and /or you’d be worse off ( although the other parties never adhere yo any promises anyway). Just vote Green.
2. When Green get ’into power’ and if they are blocked by big corporations then we have to vote again by not using their services and/or storming their headquarters with violence. They use subliminal violence so we have to do it to them overtly.
If the public don’t mass together on this and are not prepared to take radical action then the planèt is f***ed.
Most consume more energy than we did at their age with endless gadgets to charge, and I can’t see what they do to have a lower carbon footprint.
Only a small minority talk the talk AND walk the walk.
More young people vote Green than older people which as I state above is imo the best thing to do but it’s hardly a huge divide, is it? Labour aren't going to be green enough, that’s for sure.
I believe the opposite. If a solution is coming, I believe it will come from the individual making such changes as I see little from the authorities, largely beholden to the giants of the industries that cause increased greenhouse gas emissions, to satisfy us, to suggest they are taking enough of a lead. It's not in their interests too money wise
I agree that a global political alignment is necessary to prevent the situation worsening, and we should be coming together to lobby them to do more, but I wouldn't let their inaction stop me from doing my bit. If I did, I'd be making the situation worse, which I'd rather not do.
im lucky that I have a place in Almeria, Spain and when you fly into the airport the view for miles below is plastic ! It’s where most of the salad, fruit and vegetables that are in Europes super markets come from. It’s now so large it’s the biggest thing that can be seen from space ! It’s also the largest polluter of plastics into the world’s oceans !
I know London Fire Brigade are electrifying their vehicle fleet but their fleet also includes 2 fire boats and they are going to be among the last to be converted or replaced. Hydrotreated Vegetable Oil (HVO) is already used in diesel fire engines, (increasingly, but not yet 100% i believe) though that's a different diesel to the marine type. I was told the diesel combustion engine needs no adaptations but commercial availability of HVO is the limiter.
Severe weather alerts warning of a "significant threat to life" appeared on phones across the UK due to a testing error, the Met Office has said.
Notifications warned of severe weather events including high temperatures, snow, ice and rain in different parts of the country on Thursday. The test alerts, issued by a third party aggregator, were not intended to be seen by the public.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn8g3rm51m1o
Ester Boserup was right
Thank goodness that's one less thing to worry about.
Now, about this 8.2 billion+ world population thing....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c791ng0zvl3o