Enjoyed Rachel's Farm on bbc4 last night. It's about the conversion of farm land to re-generative farming- in a nutshell moving away from chemicals and boosting nature's processes (e.g. biodiversity) in sustainable systems.
It's set in Australia and that backdrop helped to make several points which 'stuck' for me.
1. The indigenous (aboriginal) people did practice sustainable farming (think we all know that anyway), but industrial processes striving for high yield means constant damage to soils and natural processes.
2. Australia has droughts and floods, which can further denude the soil of its richness. We get that here too now increasingly. One way round it was to create a moat on high ground to hold the water at a higher level so it permeated the soil below and around, keeping it at a more constant level of moisture. It's hard for farmers, especially on undulating land to cope with extremes of weather. And fire risks are also increasing in association with lengthy dry spells (as seen in London just a couple of years ago).
3. Carbon dioxide is absorbed by trees and grasses, so really these things (trees, green foliage etc), come out of 'thin air' - we all knew this anyway right (surely?!) but they used a couple of great animations back this up.
4. Soil is a rich complex universe of bugs and critters all doing their thing. The dung beetle is vital and where it doesn't flourish, the soil suffers greatly.
5. Carbon trading relies on having certified sites, like Rachel's Farm where purchasers/ investors/ polluters can offset their carbon footprint, so enriching the nation's biodiversity while maintaining a course to net zero (I have no idea what Australia's climate policies are currently but it was re-assuring to see people like Rachel and her network doing their bit).
There was more but overall I thought it was good family viewing and well worth a watch and taught me those few things too.
We must use 'nature based' solutions wherever we can, working with our natural environment, instead of against.
I recommend books by Tony Juniper who is Chair of Natural England, I think you would enjoy them. I haven't read all his books, but 'What has Nature ever done for us' and 'What Nature does for Britain' are excellent and try to quantify in economic terms, the benefits, for all of us, of looking after nature.
Where I live they are spending millions moving National Grid cables underground to take the pylons out of the countryside, so assume no wind turbines where I live.
This is a prime example of the critical stupidity at work in the essential shift from fossil fuel derived energy
Splashed across the ever more trumpian MSM last week was "wind turbines switched off in storms", all the usual right wing bilge pumps spouting the all too familiar misinformation. If one persisted through the stinking agenda then the less (relatively) irresponsible outlets like the Telegraph, belatedly included the truth that the major reason turbines are deactivated in high winds is because the national grid infrastructure is inadequate to convey the wattage of electricity that our existing wind power resources can already generate, even at wind speeds will within their safety parameters. Because of compliant nimbys whipped up by the petrochemical lobby and climate denier crackpots, all of a sudden pylons are a major 'problem'.
A credible government needs to be adding underground power cables to the existing grid even just to harness the power already available. But no, billions upon billions are being pissed away to placate dismal dullards, rather than to harness what upon completion of said cabling will be free energy. Not content with deludedly bellyaching about pylons the same simpletons are seen and heard to be decrying the 'ruination of the countryside' as the essential channels are dug.
It's not even restricted to a political colour disparity. The incumbent administration is saying it will plough gazillions of our money into more and more turbines firmly putting the cart before the horse, when we can't absorb the energy already freely available. Presumably because big shiny turbines show very simply that bundles has been spent/burned on big shiny stuff but digging channels and burying the critically important cabling quite literally gets covered up with nothing to show.
Mismanaged climate disasters are bolstering far-right parties that channel public anger at political leaders while denying human-driven climate change. In Spain, the far-right Vox party gained traction after the October floods in Valencia, which killed over 220 people and exposed governmental shortcomings. The conservative regional government was criticised for failing to warn residents of flood risks, while the Socialist-led national government faced backlash for its slow response. Public anger overshadowed discussions on the role of climate change, which scientists link to record Mediterranean temperatures driving extreme rainfall.
Vox capitalised on these failures, promoting grassroots aid efforts and criticising the authorities. Its national support grew from 10.5% to 13.8% post-floods, despite controversial decisions like cancelling a proposed emergency unit and appointing a former bullfighter to a key cultural role. Spanish Transport Minister Óscar Puente highlighted the emotional nature of disaster reactions, which often neglect climate change’s underlying role.
Historical parallels exist; far-right groups exploited Germany’s 2021 floods to spread misinformation. Puente stressed the need for long-term infrastructure adaptation and significant investment to address climate realities. Spain has allocated €16.6 billion for flood recovery, but widespread criticism persists, reflecting the challenges of managing disasters in a warming world.
Also, I don't think @bobmunro would claim to be the first person to use the name Queerie. I think it may have been someone with a chip on his shoulder.
Vox is a far-right political party in Spain known for its nationalist, populist and conservative stances. It frequently criticises immigration policies, promotes traditional Spanish cultural values and opposes regional autonomy movements. The party is sceptical of man-made climate change, often questioning scientific consensus and downplaying its significance. Vox has resisted climate-focused policies, such as emergency preparedness initiatives and attributes environmental disasters more to governmental mismanagement than to climate change. This approach aligns with their broader agenda of challenging mainstream political narratives and capitalising on public discontent with traditional parties.
I think you forgot "Quote from the Financial times" !
Rather than trying to pretend that you get all this stuff from the top of your head 🤣
To anyone that thought I was pretending I get all this stuff from the top of my head, I apologise. (Except for Queerie, who seems to be the only one who imagines I made such a claim).
For everyone else, here's a link to the Financial Times. The article highlights the challenges of implementing climate policies amidst public discontent. Populist movements thrive on the perception that the poor bear the brunt of economic shifts. Decarbonisation requires massive societal changes, affecting low earners disproportionately. To succeed, governments must offer substantial support to vulnerable groups, avoiding further inequality-fueled backlash.
Well Friday reminded me how ridiculous this race to net zero is.
My first energy bill back in the UK came through for last month - £120. And that's with us trying to be careful with how often we turn the central heating on.
My energy bills in Vancouver used to be roughly $140 (~£80) every 3 months.
How do the two properties compare?
Obviously the comparison of properties is relevant mate but without doubt we are being ripped off here on energy prices. I have a 3 bed, 2 bath detached house with a swimming pool in Spain and my electricity bill is never over 70 euros pm. Considering Europe we’re supposed to be hit hard by Putin actions they aren’t doing too bad.
It's a fair question (the property here is bigger), but we had air conditioning running for 70% of the day, everyday for about 6 months in Vancouver and our energy bills were so small you didn't really notice the money leaving your account.
The fact that in 2025 I have to sometimes sit in a cold house in the UK with a jumper on is unacceptable. Living standards are going down here.
I imagine your heating bill will be lower in the Summer, as long as you don't have to resort to aircon. But, really, what's wrong with putting a pullover on? It's a climate crisis: I think most people should be prepared to put a jumper on in January.
Because other countries which pollute considerably more than us aren't making their citizens sit in cold houses as an act of virtue signalling like we do?
If you're being made to sit in a house as an act of virtue signalling, you should resist, resist, resist. That's the point of virtue signalling: no-one should be made to do it. It should be the free choice of any individual.
I have never felt like I am being forced into sitting in a cold house by the government or, indeed, anyone else. But then, I have a plentiful supply of jumpers and I am unafraid of wearing them, mid-winter.
A very apt description of the numerous posters who are Woke, Green, and behave like a Mob on this particular thread and numerous others in the past.
Who chose to throw abuse, insults and try to silence anyone who dares challenge their views in any way, and who, coincidentally, all happen to come from the same side of the political fence.
Wasn’t going to post on this thread again but you’ve given a classic lesson in trolling here. Nothing to do with the subject and only written to gain a response and dig at others. Anyway. Now I’m out.
Mismanaged climate disasters are bolstering far-right parties that channel public anger at political leaders while denying human-driven climate change. In Spain, the far-right Vox party gained traction after the October floods in Valencia, which killed over 220 people and exposed governmental shortcomings. The conservative regional government was criticised for failing to warn residents of flood risks, while the Socialist-led national government faced backlash for its slow response. Public anger overshadowed discussions on the role of climate change, which scientists link to record Mediterranean temperatures driving extreme rainfall.
Vox capitalised on these failures, promoting grassroots aid efforts and criticising the authorities. Its national support grew from 10.5% to 13.8% post-floods, despite controversial decisions like cancelling a proposed emergency unit and appointing a former bullfighter to a key cultural role. Spanish Transport Minister Óscar Puente highlighted the emotional nature of disaster reactions, which often neglect climate change’s underlying role.
Historical parallels exist; far-right groups exploited Germany’s 2021 floods to spread misinformation. Puente stressed the need for long-term infrastructure adaptation and significant investment to address climate realities. Spain has allocated €16.6 billion for flood recovery, but widespread criticism persists, reflecting the challenges of managing disasters in a warming world.
Also, I don't think @bobmunro would claim to be the first person to use the name Queerie. I think it may have been someone with a chip on his shoulder.
Vox is a far-right political party in Spain known for its nationalist, populist and conservative stances. It frequently criticises immigration policies, promotes traditional Spanish cultural values and opposes regional autonomy movements. The party is sceptical of man-made climate change, often questioning scientific consensus and downplaying its significance. Vox has resisted climate-focused policies, such as emergency preparedness initiatives and attributes environmental disasters more to governmental mismanagement than to climate change. This approach aligns with their broader agenda of challenging mainstream political narratives and capitalising on public discontent with traditional parties.
I think you forgot "Quote from the Financial times" !
Rather than trying to pretend that you get all this stuff from the top of your head 🤣
To anyone that thought I was pretending I get all this stuff from the top of my head, I apologise. (Except for Queerie, who seems to be the only one who imagines I made such a claim).
For everyone else, here's a link to the Financial Times. The article highlights the challenges of implementing climate policies amidst public discontent. Populist movements thrive on the perception that the poor bear the brunt of economic shifts. Decarbonisation requires massive societal changes, affecting low earners disproportionately. To succeed, governments must offer substantial support to vulnerable groups, avoiding further inequality-fueled backlash.
Mismanaged climate disasters are bolstering far-right parties that channel public anger at political leaders while denying human-driven climate change. In Spain, the far-right Vox party gained traction after the October floods in Valencia, which killed over 220 people and exposed governmental shortcomings. The conservative regional government was criticised for failing to warn residents of flood risks, while the Socialist-led national government faced backlash for its slow response. Public anger overshadowed discussions on the role of climate change, which scientists link to record Mediterranean temperatures driving extreme rainfall.
Vox capitalised on these failures, promoting grassroots aid efforts and criticising the authorities. Its national support grew from 10.5% to 13.8% post-floods, despite controversial decisions like cancelling a proposed emergency unit and appointing a former bullfighter to a key cultural role. Spanish Transport Minister Óscar Puente highlighted the emotional nature of disaster reactions, which often neglect climate change’s underlying role.
Historical parallels exist; far-right groups exploited Germany’s 2021 floods to spread misinformation. Puente stressed the need for long-term infrastructure adaptation and significant investment to address climate realities. Spain has allocated €16.6 billion for flood recovery, but widespread criticism persists, reflecting the challenges of managing disasters in a warming world.
Also, I don't think @bobmunro would claim to be the first person to use the name Queerie. I think it may have been someone with a chip on his shoulder.
Vox is a far-right political party in Spain known for its nationalist, populist and conservative stances. It frequently criticises immigration policies, promotes traditional Spanish cultural values and opposes regional autonomy movements. The party is sceptical of man-made climate change, often questioning scientific consensus and downplaying its significance. Vox has resisted climate-focused policies, such as emergency preparedness initiatives and attributes environmental disasters more to governmental mismanagement than to climate change. This approach aligns with their broader agenda of challenging mainstream political narratives and capitalising on public discontent with traditional parties.
I think you forgot "Quote from the Financial times" !
Rather than trying to pretend that you get all this stuff from the top of your head 🤣
To anyone that thought I was pretending I get all this stuff from the top of my head, I apologise. (Except for Queerie, who seems to be the only one who imagines I made such a claim).
For everyone else, here's a link to the Financial Times. The article highlights the challenges of implementing climate policies amidst public discontent. Populist movements thrive on the perception that the poor bear the brunt of economic shifts. Decarbonisation requires massive societal changes, affecting low earners disproportionately. To succeed, governments must offer substantial support to vulnerable groups, avoiding further inequality-fueled backlash.
Well Friday reminded me how ridiculous this race to net zero is.
My first energy bill back in the UK came through for last month - £120. And that's with us trying to be careful with how often we turn the central heating on.
My energy bills in Vancouver used to be roughly $140 (~£80) every 3 months.
What is it about "net zero" that you think is making your bills so high? are there any other contributing factors other than net zero?
I thought that the price we pay for electricity is set by the price of gas. I had a quick look and there are emission levies put on burning fossil fuels to try and phase out their use. But those costs are passed back to the consumer. It seems to me that whilst the levies have good intentions that there isnt really any insentive for that energy company to actually change anything.
The fact that the capacity of renewables is insufficient to meet our energy needs, yet we felt it was appropriate to decommission our last coal power plant last year that could have temporarily filled that gap.
do you agree that the world needs to move our electricity supply to renewables? That has to be gradual, it is impossible to do that in one go. Also, we havent missed a coal power plant at all. Gas is sufficient and currently perfect for bridging the gaps when required.
Yes I think if we can sustain ourselves on renewable energy then everyone wins.
But as you say, it has to be gradual to prevent people being plunged into energy poverty. It also has to be gradual in order to convince people that we're doing the right thing. The reason people are turning against net zero is that it's made us much poorer very quickly.
The transition has been far too fast.
We're poorer because we let the big energy producers get rich, rather than our country benefit. If we had set up a sovereign wealth fund for the benefit of the UK instead of privatising our energy, we wouldn't be seeing the huge bills we have now. We could have used that wealth to invest in renewable/sustainable energy.
That's a cool story, but doesn't explain why energy is dirt cheap in the US, yet expensive here. Their energy is also privatised.
Its not a story its what happened. as per my above post:
"We had situations where large energy companies during the energy crisis were taking advantage and blatantly profiteering. It's usual in a situation where costs are going up for profits to go up, but they should go up proportionally. In the UK energy costs to companies went up by 20-30% but their profits in the same period rose across the board by more than 100%. Those profits were pre crisis already determined to be meeting the economic definition of excess profits so it can't be argued they were needed. This is a failure of regulation and the costs are carried by the consumer."
I dont know the US system particularly but I would imagine that they are less reliant on the Russian/would price of oil and gas due to geography and their own oil fields. So felt the shock of the Ukraine war less than Europe did. They also have a completely different tax system.
If Trump tries to play the hardman with Canada, they've threatened to cut off all the energy they supply them. So a country used to unrivalled low prices on energy would see a 20% rise in the cost overnight. That would be 'interesting' 😏
A very apt description of the numerous posters who are Woke, Green, and behave like a Mob on this particular thread and numerous others in the past.
Who chose to throw abuse, insults and try to silence anyone who dares challenge their views in any way, and who, coincidentally, all happen to come from the same side of the political fence.
Wasn’t going to post on this thread again but you’ve given a classic lesson in trolling here. Nothing to do with the subject and only written to gain a response and dig at others. Anyway. Now I’m out.
No. Get your facts straight, it was my answer to a question posed to me from @stig
Well Friday reminded me how ridiculous this race to net zero is.
My first energy bill back in the UK came through for last month - £120. And that's with us trying to be careful with how often we turn the central heating on.
My energy bills in Vancouver used to be roughly $140 (~£80) every 3 months.
How do the two properties compare?
Obviously the comparison of properties is relevant mate but without doubt we are being ripped off here on energy prices. I have a 3 bed, 2 bath detached house with a swimming pool in Spain and my electricity bill is never over 70 euros pm. Considering Europe we’re supposed to be hit hard by Putin actions they aren’t doing too bad.
It's a fair question (the property here is bigger), but we had air conditioning running for 70% of the day, everyday for about 6 months in Vancouver and our energy bills were so small you didn't really notice the money leaving your account.
The fact that in 2025 I have to sometimes sit in a cold house in the UK with a jumper on is unacceptable. Living standards are going down here.
I imagine your heating bill will be lower in the Summer, as long as you don't have to resort to aircon. But, really, what's wrong with putting a pullover on? It's a climate crisis: I think most people should be prepared to put a jumper on in January.
Because other countries which pollute considerably more than us aren't making their citizens sit in cold houses as an act of virtue signalling like we do?
I think you don't underatand WHY those countries pollute. Hint: It's because we consume what they produce...
In fact, this point highlights one of the key problems with getting any sort of wide-reaching strategy implemented around green energy policies.
People genuinely don't realise just how much energy in countries with high pollution rates in the developing world goes into propping up our insatiable appetite for consumerism. If they did, they might not be as quick to point out those pollution rates as some kind of 'gotcha'.
Technically, pollution in the third world is our dirty little secret - and it's a bit rich of us to moan about being asked to use green energy when all we've effectively done is outsource our responsibility for pollution to the developing world.
Mismanaged climate disasters are bolstering far-right parties that channel public anger at political leaders while denying human-driven climate change. In Spain, the far-right Vox party gained traction after the October floods in Valencia, which killed over 220 people and exposed governmental shortcomings. The conservative regional government was criticised for failing to warn residents of flood risks, while the Socialist-led national government faced backlash for its slow response. Public anger overshadowed discussions on the role of climate change, which scientists link to record Mediterranean temperatures driving extreme rainfall.
Vox capitalised on these failures, promoting grassroots aid efforts and criticising the authorities. Its national support grew from 10.5% to 13.8% post-floods, despite controversial decisions like cancelling a proposed emergency unit and appointing a former bullfighter to a key cultural role. Spanish Transport Minister Óscar Puente highlighted the emotional nature of disaster reactions, which often neglect climate change’s underlying role.
Historical parallels exist; far-right groups exploited Germany’s 2021 floods to spread misinformation. Puente stressed the need for long-term infrastructure adaptation and significant investment to address climate realities. Spain has allocated €16.6 billion for flood recovery, but widespread criticism persists, reflecting the challenges of managing disasters in a warming world.
Also, I don't think @bobmunro would claim to be the first person to use the name Queerie. I think it may have been someone with a chip on his shoulder.
Vox is a far-right political party in Spain known for its nationalist, populist and conservative stances. It frequently criticises immigration policies, promotes traditional Spanish cultural values and opposes regional autonomy movements. The party is sceptical of man-made climate change, often questioning scientific consensus and downplaying its significance. Vox has resisted climate-focused policies, such as emergency preparedness initiatives and attributes environmental disasters more to governmental mismanagement than to climate change. This approach aligns with their broader agenda of challenging mainstream political narratives and capitalising on public discontent with traditional parties.
I think you forgot "Quote from the Financial times" !
Rather than trying to pretend that you get all this stuff from the top of your head 🤣
To anyone that thought I was pretending I get all this stuff from the top of my head, I apologise. (Except for Queerie, who seems to be the only one who imagines I made such a claim).
For everyone else, here's a link to the Financial Times. The article highlights the challenges of implementing climate policies amidst public discontent. Populist movements thrive on the perception that the poor bear the brunt of economic shifts. Decarbonisation requires massive societal changes, affecting low earners disproportionately. To succeed, governments must offer substantial support to vulnerable groups, avoiding further inequality-fueled backlash.
Mismanaged climate disasters are bolstering far-right parties that channel public anger at political leaders while denying human-driven climate change. In Spain, the far-right Vox party gained traction after the October floods in Valencia, which killed over 220 people and exposed governmental shortcomings. The conservative regional government was criticised for failing to warn residents of flood risks, while the Socialist-led national government faced backlash for its slow response. Public anger overshadowed discussions on the role of climate change, which scientists link to record Mediterranean temperatures driving extreme rainfall.
Vox capitalised on these failures, promoting grassroots aid efforts and criticising the authorities. Its national support grew from 10.5% to 13.8% post-floods, despite controversial decisions like cancelling a proposed emergency unit and appointing a former bullfighter to a key cultural role. Spanish Transport Minister Óscar Puente highlighted the emotional nature of disaster reactions, which often neglect climate change’s underlying role.
Historical parallels exist; far-right groups exploited Germany’s 2021 floods to spread misinformation. Puente stressed the need for long-term infrastructure adaptation and significant investment to address climate realities. Spain has allocated €16.6 billion for flood recovery, but widespread criticism persists, reflecting the challenges of managing disasters in a warming world.
Also, I don't think @bobmunro would claim to be the first person to use the name Queerie. I think it may have been someone with a chip on his shoulder.
Vox is a far-right political party in Spain known for its nationalist, populist and conservative stances. It frequently criticises immigration policies, promotes traditional Spanish cultural values and opposes regional autonomy movements. The party is sceptical of man-made climate change, often questioning scientific consensus and downplaying its significance. Vox has resisted climate-focused policies, such as emergency preparedness initiatives and attributes environmental disasters more to governmental mismanagement than to climate change. This approach aligns with their broader agenda of challenging mainstream political narratives and capitalising on public discontent with traditional parties.
I think you forgot "Quote from the Financial times" !
Rather than trying to pretend that you get all this stuff from the top of your head 🤣
To anyone that thought I was pretending I get all this stuff from the top of my head, I apologise. (Except for Queerie, who seems to be the only one who imagines I made such a claim).
For everyone else, here's a link to the Financial Times. The article highlights the challenges of implementing climate policies amidst public discontent. Populist movements thrive on the perception that the poor bear the brunt of economic shifts. Decarbonisation requires massive societal changes, affecting low earners disproportionately. To succeed, governments must offer substantial support to vulnerable groups, avoiding further inequality-fueled backlash.
Between 1980 and 2024, the U.S. sustained 403 weather and climate disasters, each causing over $1 billion in damages, cumulatively exceeding $2.475 trillion. (National Centers for Environmental Information).
In 2024, the U.S. experienced economic losses totalling $217.8 billion from natural disasters, marking an 85.3% increase from the previous year and representing the highest annual total since 2017. AP News
The California Wildfires this month have caused damage estimated at $30 billion. (Wells Fargo and Goldman Sachs).
A 2023 report by the U.S. Congress Joint Economic Committee estimated that wildfires cost the U.S. economy between $394 billion and $893 billion annually.
Implementing all commitments needed to adhere to the Paris Agreement: $100–$167 billion per year (depending on assumptions and time frames); $3 trillion overall. (NERA Economic Consulting).
Total cost of missing targets: $6 trillion by the end of the century (Nature)
Mismanaged climate disasters are bolstering far-right parties that channel public anger at political leaders while denying human-driven climate change. In Spain, the far-right Vox party gained traction after the October floods in Valencia, which killed over 220 people and exposed governmental shortcomings. The conservative regional government was criticised for failing to warn residents of flood risks, while the Socialist-led national government faced backlash for its slow response. Public anger overshadowed discussions on the role of climate change, which scientists link to record Mediterranean temperatures driving extreme rainfall.
Vox capitalised on these failures, promoting grassroots aid efforts and criticising the authorities. Its national support grew from 10.5% to 13.8% post-floods, despite controversial decisions like cancelling a proposed emergency unit and appointing a former bullfighter to a key cultural role. Spanish Transport Minister Óscar Puente highlighted the emotional nature of disaster reactions, which often neglect climate change’s underlying role.
Historical parallels exist; far-right groups exploited Germany’s 2021 floods to spread misinformation. Puente stressed the need for long-term infrastructure adaptation and significant investment to address climate realities. Spain has allocated €16.6 billion for flood recovery, but widespread criticism persists, reflecting the challenges of managing disasters in a warming world.
Also, I don't think @bobmunro would claim to be the first person to use the name Queerie. I think it may have been someone with a chip on his shoulder.
Vox is a far-right political party in Spain known for its nationalist, populist and conservative stances. It frequently criticises immigration policies, promotes traditional Spanish cultural values and opposes regional autonomy movements. The party is sceptical of man-made climate change, often questioning scientific consensus and downplaying its significance. Vox has resisted climate-focused policies, such as emergency preparedness initiatives and attributes environmental disasters more to governmental mismanagement than to climate change. This approach aligns with their broader agenda of challenging mainstream political narratives and capitalising on public discontent with traditional parties.
I think you forgot "Quote from the Financial times" !
Rather than trying to pretend that you get all this stuff from the top of your head 🤣
To anyone that thought I was pretending I get all this stuff from the top of my head, I apologise. (Except for Queerie, who seems to be the only one who imagines I made such a claim).
For everyone else, here's a link to the Financial Times. The article highlights the challenges of implementing climate policies amidst public discontent. Populist movements thrive on the perception that the poor bear the brunt of economic shifts. Decarbonisation requires massive societal changes, affecting low earners disproportionately. To succeed, governments must offer substantial support to vulnerable groups, avoiding further inequality-fueled backlash.
@swordfish I have just finished watching Rachel's Farm and what an uplifting watch it was. Thank you for recommending it.
It was a lesson in how important biodiversity is to mitigating Climate Change.
I know that Kent Wildlife Trust were working with farmers to better manage the soil and prevent leaching into waterways. Hopefully more farmers will use regeneration methods in the future.
Between 1980 and 2024, the U.S. sustained 403 weather and climate disasters, each causing over $1 billion in damages, cumulatively exceeding $2.475 trillion. (National Centers for Environmental Information).
In 2024, the U.S. experienced economic losses totalling $217.8 billion from natural disasters, marking an 85.3% increase from the previous year and representing the highest annual total since 2017. AP News
The California Wildfires this month have caused damage estimated at $30 billion. (Wells Fargo and Goldman Sachs).
A 2023 report by the U.S. Congress Joint Economic Committee estimated that wildfires cost the U.S. economy between $394 billion and $893 billion annually.
Implementing all commitments needed to adhere to the Paris Agreement: $100–$167 billion per year (depending on assumptions and time frames); $3 trillion overall. (NERA Economic Consulting).
Total cost of missing targets: $6 trillion by the end of the century (Nature)
Interesting addition for everyone who cites cost as a reason not to try and reduce greenhouse emisions as it would put the bills up. Try and imagine the cost as we fry the planet!
@swordfish I have just finished watching Rachel's Farm and what an uplifting watch it was. Thank you for recommending it.
It was a lesson in how important biodiversity is to mitigating Climate Change.
I know that Kent Wildlife Trust were working with farmers to better manage the soil and prevent leaching into waterways. Hopefully more farmers will use regeneration methods in the future.
I can't take the credit for that. It was another sword, @swords_alive but I'll also be watching it later.
@swordfish I have just finished watching Rachel's Farm and what an uplifting watch it was. Thank you for recommending it.
It was a lesson in how important biodiversity is to mitigating Climate Change.
I know that Kent Wildlife Trust were working with farmers to better manage the soil and prevent leaching into waterways. Hopefully more farmers will use regeneration methods in the future.
I can't take the credit for that. It was another sword, @swords_alive but I'll also be watching it later.
@swordfish I have just finished watching Rachel's Farm and what an uplifting watch it was. Thank you for recommending it.
It was a lesson in how important biodiversity is to mitigating Climate Change.
I know that Kent Wildlife Trust were working with farmers to better manage the soil and prevent leaching into waterways. Hopefully more farmers will use regeneration methods in the future.
I can't take the credit for that. It was another sword, @swords_alive but I'll also be watching it later.
Sorry, but you will enjoy watching it.
Rachel was Meggie in The Thornbirds and is married to Btyan Brown.
The Thornbirds 🤣 Now there's a blast from the past. I did watch it back in the day.
Could someone explain how the national grid can supply electricity to to one energy supplier who advertises on TV that their electricity is from 100% renewable sources, when renewables cannot meet the demand do they turn off supplies to their customers? It all comes down to same wires, so say I change my supplier how does National Grid route rewneable only energy to my house and not to the house next door who supplier does not advertise that the source of their electricity is from 100% renewable. There is only one mains cable that connects all the 50 houses in my street.
The National Grid operates like a giant pool or reservoir that all electricity producers (renewable or not) feed into. All consumers draw electricity from this same pool. Once electricity enters the grid, it is indistinguishable in terms of its source - whether it came from a wind turbine, a solar panel or a coal-fired power plant. When an energy supplier advertises that their electricity is from "100% renewable sources," they are not delivering separate renewable electrons directly to your house. Instead, they participate in a system called Renewable Energy Guarantees of Origin (REGOs). Here's how it works:
Renewable energy generators, like wind farms and solar plants, receive REGOs for the electricity they produce.
Suppliers can purchase these REGOs to match the amount of electricity they sell to their customers.
By buying enough REGOs to cover the electricity used by their customers, the supplier can claim that the electricity they supply is 100% renewable.
If renewable sources cannot meet total demand at a given time, the grid uses other sources (like gas or nuclear) to fill the gap. However, suppliers that claim to provide 100% renewable energy have already purchased sufficient REGOs to match their customers' usage over a year, even if the actual physical electricity at any moment includes contributions from non-renewable sources. Electricity doesn't flow in a way that allows separation by source to individual homes. It's not like a pipeline where you can direct specific water sources to specific taps. Instead, electrons flow through the grid based on demand and physical principles of electricity. The 100% renewable claim is about balancing the overall supply with purchases of renewable energy certificates, not about delivering a separate stream of green electricity to your home. Switching to a renewable supplier supports the broader transition to green energy because:
It increases demand for renewable energy certificates like REGOs.
This incentivises further investment in renewable generation.
Over time, it contributes to a larger proportion of renewables in the grid.
In summary, electricity from renewable sources and fossil fuels mixes in the grid. Suppliers offering "100% renewable" electricity ensure that, over time, their customers’ demand is matched by an equivalent amount of renewable generation. This system helps drive the growth of renewable energy on a national and global scale.
A simpler way to look at it is like this. I buy organic milk from Tesco. Tesco sells lots of milk, including organic. The fact I buy organic milk doesn't stop Tesco from selling non-organic milk. But if more and more customers of Tesco buy only organic milk, the total proportion of organic milk Tesco sells will increase. Tesco is like the National Grid. the producer of the organic milk I buy is the equivalent of the renewables energy supplier.
Thanks, just as I thought it misleading the consumers.
By that that reasoning, do you think that if you pay British Gas for your electricity, that they are sending you their own electrons directly to you, while your neighbour who's energy is supplied by EDF has a completely different set of electrons?
I dont think its misleading. It's just the way it works and a small amount of research gives reasonable explanatio.
That is not what I am saying. When a suppler claims that it electricity come from 100% renewable sources why should I not believe that be the case, without having to do research on the Internet. I accept that Tesco's organic milk is what it says on the packing without going to the Internet to find out if it actually does.
What you are thinking they were claiming is impossible. You seem interested in the claim enough to form a negative opinion on it without looking any more into it, as if you were happy with your outcome regardless.
Perhaps an energy supplier could be absolutely explicit on explaining it. So is something like, "we only buy clean electricity" an accurate and obvious enough claim? Would they still have to explain that you might not be getting the same electrons from a wind turbine?
According to the report ‘Business on the Edge: Building Industry Resilience to Climate Hazards’, the impact of climate change could drive fixed-asset losses of $560-610 billion per year across listed companies by 2035.
Summary: The World Economic Forum's report, Business on the Edge: Building Industry Resilience to Climate Hazards, underscores the escalating risks climate change poses to businesses worldwide. Earth’s critical systems - such as ice sheets, ocean currents and permafrost - are nearing tipping points that could irreversibly disrupt ecosystems and economies. For example, the collapse of Greenland and West Antarctic ice sheets could trigger a sea-level rise of up to 10 meters, displacing millions and exacerbating food insecurity for over 500 million people. Similarly, weakening ocean circulation could destabilise weather patterns, intensify flooding and threaten vital economic hubs.
These cascading risks are not theoretical. Businesses face a dual threat: physical damage to assets and operational disruptions from climate hazards like extreme heat, floods, and storms. The financial implications are severe, with projected global earnings losses of 6.6%–7.3% annually by 2035 if adaptive measures are not implemented. Sectors heavily dependent on natural resources, infrastructure, and global supply chains are particularly vulnerable.
The report emphasises that building resilience is no longer optional. It provides a roadmap for businesses to mitigate risks by decarbonising operations, safeguarding natural systems and investing in climate adaptation strategies. These actions not only protect assets but also contribute to long-term sustainability, benefiting society and the planet. Collaboration between public and private sectors is highlighted as crucial for scaling solutions and managing shared risks.
Inaction could have crippling consequences, as climate instability increases the likelihood of operational disruptions, resource scarcity, and systemic economic shocks. By integrating resilience planning into their strategies, businesses can safeguard their operations, maintain competitiveness, and support broader societal efforts to mitigate climate change’s impacts. The report urges leaders to act decisively, fostering innovative solutions to navigate an increasingly volatile world and secure a sustainable future.
If you value the wealth created by big businesses, or if you fear increasing global migration, then protecting the climate and reversing the damage caused to the climate should be your number one priority, above all other things. Sadly, it seems that, around the world, there are people who care desperately about the first two and are reticent to take appropriate action on the third. Madness.
if anyone is interested this is a nice short podcast covering cows and climate change. These are always fully referenced and generally easily understood.
if anyone is interested this is a nice short podcast covering cows and climate change. These are always fully referenced and generally easily understood.
Anyway back to freezing in my lounge to offset the emissions of 15,000 new aircraft
Yes interesting to see how quickly it actually progresses.
Infrastructure investment is needed generally and not all can be fully green. Hopefully won’t get bogged down in red tape and we move on even if not universally liked.
In a time when air travel should be reduced, expanding airport capacity is crazy. This will put back our net zero aspirations and the planet will suffer even more. Health will also suffer with the increased air pollution.
Growth must not be achieved at the expense of the environment,
In a time when air travel should be reduced, expanding airport capacity is crazy. This will put back our net zero aspirations and the planet will suffer even more. Health will also suffer with the increased air pollution.
Growth must not be achieved at the expense of the environment,
These decisions are not binary.
Compromise and balance always needed.
Airlines themselves are becoming more green we should remember too.
Current Situation: Emissions from Connecting Flights
Currently, many UK passengers flying long-haul must first take a short-haul flight to a European hub (e.g., Amsterdam Schiphol, Paris Charles de Gaulle, Frankfurt) before continuing their journey. These connecting flights introduce additional fuel consumption, emissions, and inefficiencies due to:
- Extra takeoff and landing cycles, which are fuel-intensive
A short-haul flight from Heathrow to Amsterdam (Schiphol) emits approximately 80-100 kg CO₂ per passenger (for a Boeing 737-800/A320).
A long-haul flight from Schiphol to New York (JFK) emits around 1.5-2.0 tonnes CO₂ per passenger on a Boeing 787 or A350.
Adding those together:
- With a connection (LHR → AMS → JFK): 100 kg CO₂ (LHR-AMS) + 1,800 kg CO₂ (AMS-JFK) = 1.9 tonnes CO₂ per passenger
- With a direct Heathrow-JFK flight: 1.7 tonnes CO₂ per passenger
This suggests a potential saving of 200 kg CO₂ per passenger by avoiding the connection.
Estimating GHG Savings from Heathrow’s Third Runway
Heathrow’s third runway is expected to allow an increase in direct long-haul routes, which should reduce the number of passengers transiting via European hubs.
Estimated Passenger Shift
- The UK Department for Transport estimated that a third runway would add 260,000 additional flights per year (mostly long-haul).
- If even 10 million passengers per year switch from indirect to direct flights, and each avoids 200 kg CO₂ per trip, that results in:
10,000,000 x 200kg CO₂ = 2 million tonnes CO₂ saved annually
That’s a significant emissions saving, equivalent to taking nearly 1 million cars off the road (assuming ~2 tonnes CO₂ per car per year).
Will Heathrow’s Third Runway Still Increase Overall Emissions?
Even with these savings, it’s worth noting that a third runway increases total capacity, meaning:
- More flights overall (including new short-haul feeder routes)
- More aviation emissions, as total air traffic grows
- Indirect emissions from airport expansion and increased ground transport
However, compared to a scenario where Heathrow remains constrained and passengers continue flying via Europe, the third runway could be the lesser evil in terms of per-passenger emissions efficiency.
- Increasing long-haul capacity at Heathrow could reduce per-passenger emissions by cutting unnecessary short-haul connections to European hubs.
- Potential savings: ~2 million tonnes CO₂ per year**, if enough passengers switch to direct long-haul routes.
- However, **total aviation emissions will still rise**, since more flights will operate overall.
If emissions reduction is the primary goal, Heathrow’s third runway alone isn’t the silver bullet, but it can contribute to a more efficient aviation network by reducing indirect flight emissions. As well as completing the third runway as soon as possible, the government should stipulate that its use is confined to the latest generations of fuel efficient aircraft (e.g. Boeing 787, Airbus A350) which are about 25% more fuel-efficient than older models.
Anyway back to freezing in my lounge to offset the emissions of 15,000 new aircraft
Yes interesting to see how quickly it actually progresses.
Infrastructure investment is needed generally and not all can be fully green. Hopefully won’t get bogged down in red tape and we move on even if not universally liked.
Current Situation: Emissions from Connecting Flights
Currently, many UK passengers flying long-haul must first take a short-haul flight to a European hub (e.g., Amsterdam Schiphol, Paris Charles de Gaulle, Frankfurt) before continuing their journey. These connecting flights introduce additional fuel consumption, emissions, and inefficiencies due to:
- Extra takeoff and landing cycles, which are fuel-intensive
A short-haul flight from Heathrow to Amsterdam (Schiphol) emits approximately 80-100 kg CO₂ per passenger (for a Boeing 737-800/A320).
A long-haul flight from Schiphol to New York (JFK) emits around 1.5-2.0 tonnes CO₂ per passenger on a Boeing 787 or A350.
Adding those together:
- With a connection (LHR → AMS → JFK): 100 kg CO₂ (LHR-AMS) + 1,800 kg CO₂ (AMS-JFK) = 1.9 tonnes CO₂ per passenger
- With a direct Heathrow-JFK flight: 1.7 tonnes CO₂ per passenger
This suggests a potential saving of 200 kg CO₂ per passenger by avoiding the connection.
Estimating GHG Savings from Heathrow’s Third Runway
Heathrow’s third runway is expected to allow an increase in direct long-haul routes, which should reduce the number of passengers transiting via European hubs.
Estimated Passenger Shift
- The UK Department for Transport estimated that a third runway would add 260,000 additional flights per year (mostly long-haul).
- If even 10 million passengers per year switch from indirect to direct flights, and each avoids 200 kg CO₂ per trip, that results in:
10,000,000 x 200kg CO₂ = 2 million tonnes CO₂ saved annually
That’s a significant emissions saving, equivalent to taking nearly 1 million cars off the road (assuming ~2 tonnes CO₂ per car per year).
Will Heathrow’s Third Runway Still Increase Overall Emissions?
Even with these savings, it’s worth noting that a third runway increases total capacity, meaning:
- More flights overall (including new short-haul feeder routes)
- More aviation emissions, as total air traffic grows
- Indirect emissions from airport expansion and increased ground transport
However, compared to a scenario where Heathrow remains constrained and passengers continue flying via Europe, the third runway could be the lesser evil in terms of per-passenger emissions efficiency.
- Increasing long-haul capacity at Heathrow could reduce per-passenger emissions by cutting unnecessary short-haul connections to European hubs.
- Potential savings: ~2 million tonnes CO₂ per year**, if enough passengers switch to direct long-haul routes.
- However, **total aviation emissions will still rise**, since more flights will operate overall.
If emissions reduction is the primary goal, Heathrow’s third runway alone isn’t the silver bullet, but it can contribute to a more efficient aviation network by reducing indirect flight emissions. As well as completing the third runway as soon as possible, the government should stipulate that its use is confined to the latest generations of fuel efficient aircraft (e.g. Boeing 787, Airbus A350) which are about 25% more fuel-efficient than older models.
It misses the point, instead of expanding air travel, it should be reduced.
If you fly KLM, Air France or Luthansa you'll still do those short haul flights. Doubt many use them to fly from Heathrow to the North America though. I thought the third runway's green benefits (lol!) was to help reduce the amount of planes circling around before landing?
Comments
I recommend books by Tony Juniper who is Chair of Natural England, I think you would enjoy them. I haven't read all his books, but 'What has Nature ever done for us' and 'What Nature does for Britain' are excellent and try to quantify in economic terms, the benefits, for all of us, of looking after nature.
Splashed across the ever more trumpian MSM last week was "wind turbines switched off in storms", all the usual right wing bilge pumps spouting the all too familiar misinformation. If one persisted through the stinking agenda then the less (relatively) irresponsible outlets like the Telegraph, belatedly included the truth that the major reason turbines are deactivated in high winds is because the national grid infrastructure is inadequate to convey the wattage of electricity that our existing wind power resources can already generate, even at wind speeds will within their safety parameters.
Because of compliant nimbys whipped up by the petrochemical lobby and climate denier crackpots, all of a sudden pylons are a major 'problem'.
A credible government needs to be adding underground power cables to the existing grid even just to harness the power already available. But no, billions upon billions are being pissed away to placate dismal dullards, rather than to harness what upon completion of said cabling will be free energy. Not content with deludedly bellyaching about pylons the same simpletons are seen and heard to be decrying the 'ruination of the countryside' as the essential channels are dug.
It's not even restricted to a political colour disparity. The incumbent administration is saying it will plough gazillions of our money into more and more turbines firmly putting the cart before the horse, when we can't absorb the energy already freely available. Presumably because big shiny turbines show very simply that bundles has been spent/burned on big shiny stuff but digging channels and burying the critically important cabling quite literally gets covered up with nothing to show.
The magnitude of the stupidity is criminal.
For everyone else, here's a link to the Financial Times. The article highlights the challenges of implementing climate policies amidst public discontent. Populist movements thrive on the perception that the poor bear the brunt of economic shifts. Decarbonisation requires massive societal changes, affecting low earners disproportionately. To succeed, governments must offer substantial support to vulnerable groups, avoiding further inequality-fueled backlash.
I have never felt like I am being forced into sitting in a cold house by the government or, indeed, anyone else. But then, I have a plentiful supply of jumpers and I am unafraid of wearing them, mid-winter.
People genuinely don't realise just how much energy in countries with high pollution rates in the developing world goes into propping up our insatiable appetite for consumerism. If they did, they might not be as quick to point out those pollution rates as some kind of 'gotcha'.
Technically, pollution in the third world is our dirty little secret - and it's a bit rich of us to moan about being asked to use green energy when all we've effectively done is outsource our responsibility for pollution to the developing world.
The California Wildfires this month have caused damage estimated at $30 billion. (Wells Fargo and Goldman Sachs).
A 2023 report by the U.S. Congress Joint Economic Committee estimated that wildfires cost the U.S. economy between $394 billion and $893 billion annually.
Implementing all commitments needed to adhere to the Paris Agreement: $100–$167 billion per year (depending on assumptions and time frames); $3 trillion overall. (NERA Economic Consulting).
Total cost of missing targets: $6 trillion by the end of the century (Nature)
It was a lesson in how important biodiversity is to mitigating Climate Change.
I know that Kent Wildlife Trust were working with farmers to better manage the soil and prevent leaching into waterways. Hopefully more farmers will use regeneration methods in the future.
Rachel was Meggie in The Thornbirds and is married to Bryan Brown.
Perhaps an energy supplier could be absolutely explicit on explaining it. So is something like, "we only buy clean electricity" an accurate and obvious enough claim? Would they still have to explain that you might not be getting the same electrons from a wind turbine?
According to the report ‘Business on the Edge: Building Industry Resilience to Climate Hazards’, the impact of climate change could drive fixed-asset losses of $560-610 billion per year across listed companies by 2035.
Summary: The World Economic Forum's report, Business on the Edge: Building Industry Resilience to Climate Hazards, underscores the escalating risks climate change poses to businesses worldwide. Earth’s critical systems - such as ice sheets, ocean currents and permafrost - are nearing tipping points that could irreversibly disrupt ecosystems and economies. For example, the collapse of Greenland and West Antarctic ice sheets could trigger a sea-level rise of up to 10 meters, displacing millions and exacerbating food insecurity for over 500 million people. Similarly, weakening ocean circulation could destabilise weather patterns, intensify flooding and threaten vital economic hubs.
Report
If you value the wealth created by big businesses, or if you fear increasing global migration, then protecting the climate and reversing the damage caused to the climate should be your number one priority, above all other things. Sadly, it seems that, around the world, there are people who care desperately about the first two and are reticent to take appropriate action on the third. Madness.
podcast covering cows and climate change. These are always fully referenced and generally easily understood.
https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4973
Anyway back to freezing in my lounge to offset the emissions of 15,000 new aircraft
Growth must not be achieved at the expense of the environment,