Westcombe Park play nearby and are now in the 4th tier. A successful community club but I think that the collapse of London Irish shows that London would struggle to support another club nowadays.
Westcombe Park play in Orpington about 1 mile from where I live. I've watched them a few times down the years but even when they were playing at a higher level there seems to be a ceiling as to how many fans they can attract. A loyal but small fanbase. No way do Wasps need a 26k stadium just a few miles away.
A few years ago there was premier rugby team looking around Dartford area for a plot of land, think Covid put paid to that, just can’t remember if it was wasps or someone else. Think they were looking at stone lodge area, but my memory ain’t that good,
Sevenoaks DC + Green Belt + KCC + politics = no chance !
Perhaps I should expand. While we were trying to save White Oak Leisure Centre in Swanley we became aware of a possible development by Sevenoaks Suns.
For the uninitiated the Suns are/were a very successful women’s basketball club, winning the British championship 3 years in a row by a distance. Their problem was that they didn’t have a suitable arena to play in the European competition. They were also being kicked out of their training facility.
At the time we discussed matters with the Sun’s rep they were actively involved with Sevenoaks District Council (SDC) and Swanley Town Council (STC) with respect to a site by M25 J3 (sound familiar). Specifically, to its NW on a site that currently is home to the Olympic leisure facility. They would build a couple of large sports halls, one with space for seating and TV cameras etc. they had a budget of around £8M.
This made so much sense BUT politics got in the way. Instead of looking at the development as a positive for the town, STC wanted annual payments which prevented it being a feasible development. Then SDC played politics as well. Their price for favourably looking at the expansion of the site into the green belt (beside the motorway !) was to be allowed to build homes between the site and the railway line. STC did want this as it would remove the farmland gap between Swanley and Hextable.
The development never happened. The Suns moved to Surrey I believe but have since stopped playing.
I couldn't find a map in all the documents. Is this in place of the golf course, or alongside it? That's long been rumoured to be turned into housing - or at least nine holes of it.
I just don’t buy there is interest in Club rugby that requires a stadium with a capacity of more then 18k, not even Bath or Gloucester are aiming beyond that.
Also still to be convinced that London has the market for more then two established premiership clubs
The article does quote it as a multi use stadium The mooted development ain't just focussed on the funny shaped balls Wasps might not fill it very often but to limit the capacity to 18k would have to be short sighted, wouldn't it? KCC planning will put it through on 'the nod' if the application reads like it adds up and all aspects and "fees" have been taken care of. If anything gets off the ground the developer will have to budget loads for site security given the extraordinary mobility of anything at all of value in the Swanleyarea that isn't very securely tied down and locked up.
A stadium over 20k is going to cost the developers well over £100m, it's for the birds that the sums add up if the anchor tenant is a rugby club.
I couldn't find a map in all the documents. Is this in place of the golf course, or alongside it? That's long been rumoured to be turned into housing - or at least nine holes of it.
Ta
Two years ago the views of sensible councillors was that the housing to the SE of J3 wouldn't happen.
Westcombe Park play nearby and are now in the 4th tier. A successful community club but I think that the collapse of London Irish shows that London would struggle to support another club nowadays.
Westcombe Park play in Orpington about 1 mile from where I live. I've watched them a few times down the years but even when they were playing at a higher level there seems to be a ceiling as to how many fans they can attract. A loyal but small fanbase. No way do Wasps need a 26k stadium just a few miles away.
agree to an extent .. it's the old chicken and egg quandary, build too small and restrict growth, too large and end up with the proverbial white elephant .. as been suggested perhaps its mooted as a future ground share .. but who with ?? .. let's wait and see if it's ever built
A 26k stadium in an area with little club rugby interest, and poor public transport connections from London. Sounds very dubious to me.
Disagree on the transport. I used to live in Swanley. Good connections from London and Kent
The location is over a mile from the station, and a tricky walk too as it's the other side of the M25 and you'd have to cross a couple of sliproads to get there.
A 26k stadium in an area with little club rugby interest, and poor public transport connections from London. Sounds very dubious to me.
Disagree on the transport. I used to live in Swanley. Good connections from London and Kent
The location is over a mile from the station, and a tricky walk too as it's the other side of the M25 and you'd have to cross a couple of sliproads to get there.
A few years ago there was premier rugby team looking around Dartford area for a plot of land, think Covid put paid to that, just can’t remember if it was wasps or someone else. Think they were looking at stone lodge area, but my memory ain’t that good,
I actually think this area can support a pro rugby team, there is a huge rugby community across Kent and Sussex particularly at youth level, with no real professional clubs easily accessible. Whether they can fill a 26k stadium is very doubtful but I’d be excited for this to go through and would definitely be going.
message from Laura Trott, MP for Sevenoaks Today, it has been announced that WASPS rugby club is engaging with Sevenoaks District Council Official to build a new multiuse stadium, training ground and hotel on the site of Pedham Place Golf Course, just outside of #Swanley.
WASPS are a historic English rugby club, with an iconic international brand, and the news is potentially very exciting.
I have always been clear that local support is vital for any new development in our community and I will therefore be looking closely at the details to ensure fans, local residents and local business will benefit, as well as requesting meetings soon with both Sevenoaks District Council and WASPS Rugby Club.
I also want to hear local opinion, so once the details have been published, I will be engaging with residents to ensure you can all have your say.
Their main rivals were Harlequins before they were sent to Coventry. Would this move rekindle that old rivalry or would it still be a bit too far away from each other. Guess Blackheath and westcombe park would be closer.
My Uncle and cousin followed Wasps and their original ground was walkable from their home in Harrow. They still went to Loftus Road but went less regularly at Wycombe and stopped going with the move to Coventry.
As a sport I enjoyed playing Rugby when I was younger but could never get into it as a spectator sport. I would have thought 26k is unrealistic. They have tried once before to reroot somewhere and it didn't succeed.
I don't think that this will happen and given the proximity to Millwall's training ground I could see them ground sharing.
Why is something like this immediately frowned upon by so many? Problems like traffic being mooted as if the stadium would be dropped onto Pedham Place without any consideration to upgrading the road infrastructure etc. Brands Hatch already hosts major events locally so there is an understanding of the requirements.
It may not come off, but the benefits of this to the South East / Kent area could be huge. Jobs created in the construction of the stadium when a recession is projected next year, jobs created in the running of the new venue, local clubs boosted by added interest in the game, local pubs/restaurants and hotels getting greater footfall on matchdays and upgraded transport links and road planning to name just a few.
Also, introducing people to a new game and giving families a reason to get together and go to games without the cost of travelling across the country to support a team.
It will of course not be without issue, but I am so tired these days of every idea being met with a wall of negativity, have a bit of hope.
Why is something like this immediately frowned upon by so many? Problems like traffic being mooted as if the stadium would be dropped onto Pedham Place without any consideration to upgrading the road infrastructure etc. Brands Hatch already hosts major events locally so there is an understanding of the requirements.
It may not come off, but the benefits of this to the South East / Kent area could be huge. Jobs created in the construction of the stadium when a recession is projected next year, jobs created in the running of the new venue, local clubs boosted by added interest in the game, local pubs/restaurants and hotels getting greater footfall on matchdays and upgraded transport links and road planning to name just a few.
Also, introducing people to a new game and giving families a reason to get together and go to games without the cost of travelling across the country to support a team.
It will of course not be without issue, but I am so tired these days of every idea being met with a wall of negativity, have a bit of hope.
Live near by and when brands hatch has a meet there are massive problem on the A20. However I do think a project like this has major positives. Need to just have a decent pub in that area.
Why is something like this immediately frowned upon by so many? Problems like traffic being mooted as if the stadium would be dropped onto Pedham Place without any consideration to upgrading the road infrastructure etc. Brands Hatch already hosts major events locally so there is an understanding of the requirements.
It may not come off, but the benefits of this to the South East / Kent area could be huge. Jobs created in the construction of the stadium when a recession is projected next year, jobs created in the running of the new venue, local clubs boosted by added interest in the game, local pubs/restaurants and hotels getting greater footfall on matchdays and upgraded transport links and road planning to name just a few.
Also, introducing people to a new game and giving families a reason to get together and go to games without the cost of travelling across the country to support a team.
It will of course not be without issue, but I am so tired these days of every idea being met with a wall of negativity, have a bit of hope.
Live near by and when brands hatch has a meet there are massive problem on the A20. However I do think a project like this has major positives. Need to just have a decent pub in that area.
I lived in Farningham for a good number of years and like anything it's just about being aware. I've no doubt the villages will be looking on with raised eyebrows, but the Pied Bull, Lion, Castle etc will be rubbing their hands together.
Why is something like this immediately frowned upon by so many? Problems like traffic being mooted as if the stadium would be dropped onto Pedham Place without any consideration to upgrading the road infrastructure etc. Brands Hatch already hosts major events locally so there is an understanding of the requirements.
It may not come off, but the benefits of this to the South East / Kent area could be huge. Jobs created in the construction of the stadium when a recession is projected next year, jobs created in the running of the new venue, local clubs boosted by added interest in the game, local pubs/restaurants and hotels getting greater footfall on matchdays and upgraded transport links and road planning to name just a few.
Also, introducing people to a new game and giving families a reason to get together and go to games without the cost of travelling across the country to support a team.
It will of course not be without issue, but I am so tired these days of every idea being met with a wall of negativity, have a bit of hope.
Live near by and when brands hatch has a meet there are massive problem on the A20. However I do think a project like this has major positives. Need to just have a decent pub in that area.
I lived in Farningham for a good number of years and like anything it's just about being aware. I've no doubt the villages will be looking on with raised eyebrows, but the Pied Bull, Lion, Castle etc will be rubbing their hands together.
Tbf those 3 pubs are good. The lion can be a bit of a nightmare if busy though. I thought it was at the London golf course so it being the golf course right next to the m25 that might help with congestion. Though the swanley roundabout is a disaster at the best of times.
Their main rivals were Harlequins before they were sent to Coventry. Would this move rekindle that old rivalry or would it still be a bit too far away from each other. Guess Blackheath and westcombe park would be closer.
That's going to depend what level they re-join at. I'm not clear that there's any mechanism for them to be slotted in somewhere half way up the pyramid and if they start near the bottom then until the new ground's built they'll be at Worcester but playing at a lower level than Worcester's amateur club next door (and indeed lower than Wasps amateurs in London). Assuming they can get a few promotions before moving in, more local clubs at tier 4 or 5 would be more realistic rivals than Blackheath. Even if they have a ton of money behind them and can overcome the RFU's desperate attempts to turn the Premiership into a closed shop, I suspect Quins will have forgotten who they are by the time they're next playing at the top level. And that's assuming they can find some very patient investors - they couldn't get a deal done when they were being offered a direct route to tier 2 while playing at Worcester, how are they going to attract funding to finance a promotion campaign to get to tier 2 the hard way?
The RFU make the FA look competent. Their rules about stadium regulations is unnecessary. It's rugby for gawd sake not football. Then wanting a closed shop will help ruin the already fragile professional sport and the future national players. Plus the fact I can't stand any sport doing that. One of the reasons I have little time for the franchise closed leagues in American sport and elsewhere.
I went Blackheath v Cinderford the other week with my brother and nephew, over the old Polly ground. I was amazed by how small the crowd was. Does anyone know if they're full time professional?
I went Blackheath v Cinderford the other week with my brother and nephew, over the old Polly ground. I was amazed by how small the crowd was. Does anyone know if they're full time professional?
Blackheath, one of the oldest and most historic R U clubs, has fallen way down the pecking order since professionalism .. neither of these clubs would be f/t pro, perhaps a few players will be semi-pro, the rest probably just getting expenses .. both these clubs play in the third tier of the RFU pyramid set up
I went Blackheath v Cinderford the other week with my brother and nephew, over the old Polly ground. I was amazed by how small the crowd was. Does anyone know if they're full time professional?
that brings up the question, what's happened to the Rectory Field, for years the home of Blackheath RUFC and occasionally Kent CCC .. I hope it's not now a Barratts estate
What sort of average crowds might they reasonably expect even if they were in the Premiership. I have no sort of idea what the level of crowds are at say Harlequins?
Generally the road network could deal with extra traffic, although be a nightmare when there are problems at the Dartford tunnel.
Public transport is poor though. The nearest station would be Swanley, which is just over 2 miles away, and only 1 pub. Eynsford station is next nearest, which is just over 3 miles away (4 pubs) with Farningham, no station, and 3 pubs. No buses whatsoever. The railway line runs very close, so theoretically it would be possible to build a new station on the existing line, But I expect costs would prohibit. A shuttle bus service would be more likely.
I went Blackheath v Cinderford the other week with my brother and nephew, over the old Polly ground. I was amazed by how small the crowd was. Does anyone know if they're full time professional?
that brings up the question, what's happened to the Rectory Field, for years the home of Blackheath RUFC and occasionally Kent CCC .. I hope it's not now a Barratts estate
Rectory Field is still a sports ground, hosting Blackeath cricket club, plus a half dozen tennis courts. Rugby is still played there too but I don't know who by.
I went Blackheath v Cinderford the other week with my brother and nephew, over the old Polly ground. I was amazed by how small the crowd was. Does anyone know if they're full time professional?
that brings up the question, what's happened to the Rectory Field, for years the home of Blackheath RUFC and occasionally Kent CCC .. I hope it's not now a Barratts estate
Rectory Field is still a sports ground, hosting Blackeath cricket club, plus a half dozen tennis courts. Rugby is still played there too but I don't know who by.
I believe that Askeans now play rugby at Rectory Field on Saturdays while Blackheath junior boys and girls and the Women's teams play their on Sundays
This would be abour 3 miles from the new Millwall training ground which has got planning consent. And if it is where I think it is then there is very little residential to oppose it.
The train would be the Swanley to Farningham Road route so a decent line in To Victoria and it’s not impossible a new station could be built but realistically this spot is slap bang between the two stations and only a couple of minutes by coach from either.
on one hand you could say they would get sufficient interest because of the lack of professional rugby in the area or you could argue there is just no interest at all. Will be interesting to see if this goes anywhere
Comments
I've watched them a few times down the years but even when they were playing at a higher level there seems to be a ceiling as to how many fans they can attract.
A loyal but small fanbase.
No way do Wasps need a 26k stadium just a few miles away.
This made so much sense BUT politics got in the way. Instead of looking at the development as a positive for the town, STC wanted annual payments which prevented it being a feasible development. Then SDC played politics as well. Their price for favourably looking at the expansion of the site into the green belt (beside the motorway !) was to be allowed to build homes between the site and the railway line. STC did want this as it would remove the farmland gap between Swanley and Hextable.
The development never happened. The Suns moved to Surrey I believe but have since stopped playing.
Ta
The location is over a mile from the station, and a tricky walk too as it's the other side of the M25 and you'd have to cross a couple of sliproads to get there.
Today, it has been announced that WASPS rugby club is engaging with Sevenoaks District Council Official to build a new multiuse stadium, training ground and hotel on the site of Pedham Place Golf Course, just outside of #Swanley.
Would this move rekindle that old rivalry or would it still be a bit too far away from each other. Guess Blackheath and westcombe park would be closer.
As a sport I enjoyed playing Rugby when I was younger but could never get into it as a spectator sport. I would have thought 26k is unrealistic. They have tried once before to reroot somewhere and it didn't succeed.
I don't think that this will happen and given the proximity to Millwall's training ground I could see them ground sharing.
It may not come off, but the benefits of this to the South East / Kent area could be huge. Jobs created in the construction of the stadium when a recession is projected next year, jobs created in the running of the new venue, local clubs boosted by added interest in the game, local pubs/restaurants and hotels getting greater footfall on matchdays and upgraded transport links and road planning to name just a few.
Also, introducing people to a new game and giving families a reason to get together and go to games without the cost of travelling across the country to support a team.
It will of course not be without issue, but I am so tired these days of every idea being met with a wall of negativity, have a bit of hope.
Need to just have a decent pub in that area.
I thought it was at the London golf course so it being the golf course right next to the m25 that might help with congestion. Though the swanley roundabout is a disaster at the best of times.
Then wanting a closed shop will help ruin the already fragile professional sport and the future national players.
Plus the fact I can't stand any sport doing that. One of the reasons I have little time for the franchise closed leagues in American sport and elsewhere.
Generally the road network could deal with extra traffic, although be a nightmare when there are problems at the Dartford tunnel.
Public transport is poor though. The nearest station would be Swanley, which is just over 2 miles away, and only 1 pub. Eynsford station is next nearest, which is just over 3 miles away (4 pubs) with Farningham, no station, and 3 pubs. No buses whatsoever.
The railway line runs very close, so theoretically it would be possible to build a new station on the existing line, But I expect costs would prohibit. A shuttle bus service would be more likely.