Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.

MATCH THREAD (+POSTp22): Gillingham vs Charlton Athletic: FA CupšŸ†(2): Sat 2nd Dec 2023 | KO 3.00PM

13132343637

Comments

  • edited December 2023
    redbuttle said:
    Melrose said:
    redbuttle said:
    Melrose said:
    Awful no bottle or heart.Ā 

    Appleton knows a lot of these are not good enough. Ā I just hope he can get them out and replace with players he wants.Ā 
    Appleton needs replacing as well
    He inherited this bunch of bottle jobs. How do you think he feels? . I actually think we know now after hearing his post match interviewĀ 

    He has no idea of a compact competitive formation. He keeps playing May out wide on the right. He continues to play Tedic. He's another Adkins type, had some success in the past, but we'll past his sell by date. In his defence Scott's acquisitions have been appalling
    So what should the club do ? Sack another manager and start again. Let's see what happens in January.Ā 
    Irrespective of where we finish Appleton should start next season and he'd have had two windows with hopefully getting players in that HE wants.
    Not sure about a manager getting two windows. It's league 1, how can we trust him and be sure he will be given the funds and then be able to get promoted, he's never done it before and I don't see him as a long term manager as he isn't championship quality which is where we want to be.Ā 

    It's the same old, get an average manager in, say he doesn't have his players (whatever that means) and then when they inevitably get sacked, the cycle starts again.Ā  He's a football coach, he's paid to coach the players and improve them tactically. I don't see any of these players getting better.Ā 

    I'm not saying he should get sacked as it would genuinely be pointless. We need owners who are actually willing to spend the price it will take to get the higher tier players and a proper manager. It has nothing to do with where we are as a club but simply down to ambition, aka money. We need to spend to get out of this league and we just don't have the juice for it.

    Our best hope is, we luckily get promoted, get another set of owners who come in and buy the club and hope that roll of the dice works. I know I'll probably get someone say to me, 'they've just got here', but we should all know by now the type of takeover this is. None of these people involved have our best interests at heart or care, they just want to boost their own egos or try and make some cash from our situation somehow.

    Or maybe I'm wrong and in January they'll actually show signs of life and spend money on the players good enough to get us promoted and all will be well..

    Edit: wasn't entirely aiming this at you Elf, just generally, that's the view on managers in CAFC
    So on the basis of a manager only being allowed one window to show what he can do, we'd have two managers or more a season.
    I'm not sure that is a recipe for success.
    I am not saying managers in general, I mean this particular manager. I don't trust he has the capabilities to build a promotion worthy squad and get the results. Admittedly though, I put that down to the owners, if we had bank rolled owners with ambition, Appleton wouldn't be our manager and we would have players like Ricardo Santos and Cameron Brannagan instead of Michael Hector and Scott Fraser (all of which will be on similar wages). Instead we have men with no money, who go for the cheap option and won't invest in the club.

    I actually feel sorry for him, just like I did Adkins, Garner, Jackson, Holden all before him. They are out of their depth and not backed financially to top it off.Ā 

    Our best bet and combination so far was probably Garner with Sandgaard as that was a coach who had proven he could implement a system and an owner that had shown he was willing to spend money. Unfortunately, Garner probably didn't get the funds required and didn't have the time, along with Sangaard being ill advised, arrogant and having a poor recruitment team. It's a very vicious cycle and we are just looking to get lucky, like most EFL sides.Ā 

    I have resigned myself to hoping an ambitious person takes an interest and we get another takeover. Will be very happy to be wrong in the future.Ā 
  • edited December 2023
    RedChaser said:
    Swisdom said:
    Iā€™m not in the ā€œAppleton outā€ posse but what I will say is between yesterday and the Cray Valley game he has produced two of the worst ever Charlton performances in my 47 years.

    i expect a proper response in the league next week but with our shortage of strikers this is going to be difficult
    Hull 6-0 was not very good.
    Not to mention the 5-0 capitulation 4 days earlier in midweek at Huddersfield, both of which I had the misfortune to watch šŸ˜‰.
    Colchester in the cup, be glad you did not attend that.
  • edited December 2023
    The way people are talking about Appleton youā€™d think weā€™ve lost half of our last dozen odd games.

    3 losses in 17ā€¦

    9 losses from the 17 competitive games before he came in.
    The power of Chuks Aneke mate. It's no coincidence that since Chuks got injured, we have only had two wins in the league.

    He's the only player who has a bit of fight up top or physicality about him. Massive loss.

    Also to say 'losses' implies drawing is a result. Some of these draws are poor

    We can talk about wins if you want to.

    8 wins in 17 under Appleton: Wycombe (H), Exeter (H), Villa U21 (H), Reading (H), Wigan (A), Cray Valley (A), Sutton (H), Cheltenham (H)

    5 wins in the prior 17: Fleetwood (H), Orient (H), Port Vale (H), MK Dons (A), Burton (H)



    Putting it all together:

    Appleton: 8 wins, 6 draws, 3 losses

    Holden/Pearce: 5 wins, 3 draws, 9 losses
    Might sound bizarre, but I am not counting wins against Villas u21s, Cray Valley and Sutton. You can only beat what's in front of you, but that's such low level competition. Even Sutton didn't play their full strength side.


    When rating player and manager scores, do you not bother with those games against sub standard opposition, or mark them down accordingly? I take it you're factoring in all losses, regardless of who they came against. Strikes me that the stats don't lie, so you're choosing to bend them to best suit the point you're making. Might as well strike out the Cheltenham win whilst you're at it, coz they were bottom of the league and aren't very good.Ā  How many more before you can then say, 'just look at Appleton's poor record' when it's anything but to dateĀ 

    I don't think he's the new Messiah and he won't be performing miracles with what's at his disposal. Right now, I'd gladly settle forĀ  steady if that's what he is. We need stability from somewhere.
  • th0rryy said:
    I live in Kent, but even as a season ticket holder who went to the Cheltenham game, I couldnā€™t bring myself to risk the feeling almost inevitable disappointment that comes from the vast majority of our cup games. Cray Valley was a warning and this was the follow up blow. The fans who went deserve better - weā€™ve had amazing away support from a dedicated few that have gone from Carlisle to Gillingham. I didnā€™t watch or listen to the game but the comments here say it all.

    Things will turn as unpleasant as Charlton can be if this squad continues to show lack of effort. The minimum expectation is putting in a shift to respect to the shirt and the fans, and only a handful can honestly say they can do that. Appleton clearly knows he has too young of a squad but for someone that got the role under the premise he can work with younger players, heā€™s not doing particularly great on that front right now. He canā€™t get a tune out of this particular squad consistently and this is a massive issue.

    Weā€™re heavily hamstrung by injuries right now, but plenty of these players should have enough quality to win games like this and Carlisle. Wins breed confidence but weā€™re perpetually stuck in first and second gear. Away form is utterly awful and teams have just figured out we cannot deal with any consistent press in possession. I wish that I could see an obvious solution in tactics or selection, but every lever Appleton could pull has probably been pulled.

    Results like this are down to Scott et al, and they need to do more to help whoever is in the hot-seat. The thought of having another March to May with zero to play for yet again is so dreary. With the issues at Reading and Wigan this year, this was the time to push, but itā€™s the same old story.
    I can see the atmosphere turning ugly if we are still out of the play-offs come February and these clowns short change Appleton on recruitment.
  • th0rryy said:
    I live in Kent, but even as a season ticket holder who went to the Cheltenham game, I couldnā€™t bring myself to risk the feeling almost inevitable disappointment that comes from the vast majority of our cup games. Cray Valley was a warning and this was the follow up blow. The fans who went deserve better - weā€™ve had amazing away support from a dedicated few that have gone from Carlisle to Gillingham. I didnā€™t watch or listen to the game but the comments here say it all.

    Things will turn as unpleasant as Charlton can be if this squad continues to show lack of effort. The minimum expectation is putting in a shift to respect to the shirt and the fans, and only a handful can honestly say they can do that. Appleton clearly knows he has too young of a squad but for someone that got the role under the premise he can work with younger players, heā€™s not doing particularly great on that front right now. He canā€™t get a tune out of this particular squad consistently and this is a massive issue.

    Weā€™re heavily hamstrung by injuries right now, but plenty of these players should have enough quality to win games like this and Carlisle. Wins breed confidence but weā€™re perpetually stuck in first and second gear. Away form is utterly awful and teams have just figured out we cannot deal with any consistent press in possession. I wish that I could see an obvious solution in tactics or selection, but every lever Appleton could pull has probably been pulled.

    Results like this are down to Scott et al, and they need to do more to help whoever is in the hot-seat. The thought of having another March to May with zero to play for yet again is so dreary. With the issues at Reading and Wigan this year, this was the time to push, but itā€™s the same old story.
    I can see the atmosphere turning ugly if we are still out of the play-offs come February and these clowns short change Appleton on recruitment.
    Dunno about you but I'm looking forward to a raft of PR "leaks" come January to shift blame and criticism.
  • RedChaser said:
    Swisdom said:
    Iā€™m not in the ā€œAppleton outā€ posse but what I will say is between yesterday and the Cray Valley game he has produced two of the worst ever Charlton performances in my 47 years.

    i expect a proper response in the league next week but with our shortage of strikers this is going to be difficult
    Hull 6-0 was not very good.
    Not to mention the 5-0 capitulation 4 days earlier in midweek at Huddersfield, both of which I had the misfortune to watch šŸ˜‰.
    same here .. AND we still keep at it ..Ā  o:) ..Ā  more tea and biscuits please nurse
  • The key reason we lost yesterday was all down to desire, or lack of it. Gillingham wanted it more plain and simple, a team in the league below us with players playing for them not considered good enough for us gave us a lesson.Ā 
  • Sponsored links:


  • redbuttle said:
    Melrose said:
    redbuttle said:
    Melrose said:
    Awful no bottle or heart.Ā 

    Appleton knows a lot of these are not good enough. Ā I just hope he can get them out and replace with players he wants.Ā 
    Appleton needs replacing as well
    He inherited this bunch of bottle jobs. How do you think he feels? . I actually think we know now after hearing his post match interviewĀ 

    He has no idea of a compact competitive formation. He keeps playing May out wide on the right. He continues to play Tedic. He's another Adkins type, had some success in the past, but we'll past his sell by date. In his defence Scott's acquisitions have been appalling
    So what should the club do ? Sack another manager and start again. Let's see what happens in January.Ā 
    Irrespective of where we finish Appleton should start next season and he'd have had two windows with hopefully getting players in that HE wants.
    Not sure about a manager getting two windows. It's league 1, how can we trust him and be sure he will be given the funds and then be able to get promoted, he's never done it before and I don't see him as a long term manager as he isn't championship quality which is where we want to be.Ā 

    It's the same old, get an average manager in, say he doesn't have his players (whatever that means) and then when they inevitably get sacked, the cycle starts again.Ā  He's a football coach, he's paid to coach the players and improve them tactically. I don't see any of these players getting better.Ā 

    I'm not saying he should get sacked as it would genuinely be pointless. We need owners who are actually willing to spend the price it will take to get the higher tier players and a proper manager. It has nothing to do with where we are as a club but simply down to ambition, aka money. We need to spend to get out of this league and we just don't have the juice for it.

    Our best hope is, we luckily get promoted, get another set of owners who come in and buy the club and hope that roll of the dice works. I know I'll probably get someone say to me, 'they've just got here', but we should all know by now the type of takeover this is. None of these people involved have our best interests at heart or care, they just want to boost their own egos or try and make some cash from our situation somehow.

    Or maybe I'm wrong and in January they'll actually show signs of life and spend money on the players good enough to get us promoted and all will be well..

    Edit: wasn't entirely aiming this at you Elf, just generally, that's the view on managers in CAFC
    So on the basis of a manager only being allowed one window to show what he can do, we'd have two managers or more a season.
    I'm not sure that is a recipe for success.
    I am not saying managers in general, I mean this particular manager. I don't trust he has the capabilities to build a promotion worthy squad and get the results. Admittedly though, I put that down to the owners, if we had bank rolled owners with ambition, Appleton wouldn't be our manager and we would have players like Ricardo Santos and Cameron Brannagan instead of Michael Hector and Scott Fraser (all of which will be on similar wages). Instead we have men with no money, who go for the cheap option and won't invest in the club.

    I actually feel sorry for him, just like I did Adkins, Garner, Jackson, Holden all before him. They are out of their depth and not backed financially to top it off.Ā 

    Our best bet and combination so far was probably Garner with Sandgaard as that was a coach who had proven he could implement a system and an owner that had shown he was willing to spend money. Unfortunately, Garner probably didn't get the funds required and didn't have the time, along with Sangaard being ill advised, arrogant and having a poor recruitment team. It's a very vicious cycle and we are just looking to get lucky, like most EFL sides.Ā 

    I have resigned myself to hoping an ambitious person takes an interest and we get another takeover. Will be very happy to be wrong in the future.Ā 
    Santos cost 120k from Barnet, and Brannagan 200k from Liverpool. Our problem isnā€™t money, we are consistently among the largest budgets in the league and even this summer spent more than those fees on players and probably more than our competitors in league 1 did. You mention Fraser, he cost more than both of those players combined. Our problem is recruitment and identifying good players that fit a style/system, not budget.Ā 

    Our recruitment has been really poor for years, even when we sign good players there doesnā€™t seem to be much thought on how they actually fit together in a functioning team. And if there is then we change manager and system 6 months later so that they no longer fit.Ā 

    Fraser is a good example, big money signing for Jacksonā€™s 3-5-2 system, a formation Fraser excelled playing in at MK Dons. 6 months later Jackson is gone and we have barely played that formation sinceĀ 
  • swordfish said:
    The way people are talking about Appleton youā€™d think weā€™ve lost half of our last dozen odd games.

    3 losses in 17ā€¦

    9 losses from the 17 competitive games before he came in.
    The power of Chuks Aneke mate. It's no coincidence that since Chuks got injured, we have only had two wins in the league.

    He's the only player who has a bit of fight up top or physicality about him. Massive loss.

    Also to say 'losses' implies drawing is a result. Some of these draws are poor

    We can talk about wins if you want to.

    8 wins in 17 under Appleton: Wycombe (H), Exeter (H), Villa U21 (H), Reading (H), Wigan (A), Cray Valley (A), Sutton (H), Cheltenham (H)

    5 wins in the prior 17: Fleetwood (H), Orient (H), Port Vale (H), MK Dons (A), Burton (H)



    Putting it all together:

    Appleton: 8 wins, 6 draws, 3 losses

    Holden/Pearce: 5 wins, 3 draws, 9 losses
    Might sound bizarre, but I am not counting wins against Villas u21s, Cray Valley and Sutton. You can only beat what's in front of you, but that's such low level competition. Even Sutton didn't play their full strength side.


    When rating player and manager scores, do you not bother with those games against sub standard opposition, or mark them down accordingly? I take it you're factoring in all losses, regardless of who they came against. Strikes me that the stats don't lie, so you're choosing to bend them to best suit the point you're making. Might as well strike out the Cheltenham win whilst you're at it, coz they were bottom of the league and aren't very good.Ā  How many more before you can then say, 'just look at Appleton's poor record' when it's anything but to dateĀ 

    I don't think he's the new Messiah and he won't be performing miracles with what's at his disposal. Right now, I'd gladly settle forĀ  steady if that's what he is. We need stability from somewhere.
    I could be wrong, but I don't believe I have left player ratings for any of those games. I am not bending anything. If you can watch Charlton Athletic play against the sides mentioned and can be happy seeing a win, then I envy that person. Cause it would be bliss to be happy over such pants wins.

    How is Cheltenham even comparable to those wins? Like genuinely.Ā  We hadn't ever beaten Cheltenham, they were in form and exist in the same league as us. Compared to: an u21 team (insulting to even compete against), Cray Valley part timers and a reserve Sutton team at the bottom of league 2.Ā 

    I'm glad you'd settle for being a steady club in league 1 mate, makes me feel sick personally.Ā 
    I said right now I'd settle for steady. I believe it will take time to build a squad capable of mounting a serious challenge, even in L1. I'm not expecting an overnight transformation is all I'm saying, and I think I'm being realistic. What I'd wish for is for us to go up as soon as, as would you I'm sureĀ  Where we might differ is that any win pleases me, regardless of the opposition.Ā 

  • Charlton fans suddenly caring about the FA Cup where was everyone at the valley v Cray Valley ā€¦ ??? fact is the game was a pain in the bum for us we knew it was Gillingham final and MA was forced to play a team he most likey did not want to ā€¦ and said before it was a case as they walked out the door ā€œ just donā€™t do anything to get injured ā€œ and you could tell that in the performanceĀ 
    I have always cared about the FA Cup. That doesn't mean I have to go to every home draw.
    I didn't go to Cray Valley but went yesterday.
    As a supporter I don't have to be there to care.

    However, I do expect the players to be up for every match whether or not they are paid you do so.
    I managed that every Sunday morning in my youth.

    If you can't be bothered to play then have the balls to tell the manager, move aside, and let someone play who does give a sh#t.

    That goes for the manager and support team too.

    Did anyone else notice MA give a very strange looking shrug of the shoulders after the game as he applauded the fans?
  • JohnnyH2 said:
    RedChaser said:
    Swisdom said:
    Iā€™m not in the ā€œAppleton outā€ posse but what I will say is between yesterday and the Cray Valley game he has produced two of the worst ever Charlton performances in my 47 years.

    i expect a proper response in the league next week but with our shortage of strikers this is going to be difficult
    Hull 6-0 was not very good.
    Not to mention the 5-0 capitulation 4 days earlier in midweek at Huddersfield, both of which I had the misfortune to watch šŸ˜‰.
    And the game before that against ColchesterĀ 
    Anyone remember the 1-6 home capitulation with Leeds Utd in 2003...premier league or not, still terrible thanks to one Mark Viduka...šŸ™„
    Sheff United 2-5 at home, the last game under Pardew was a stinker.
    Compensated by Pardew's sacking, worst manager we have ever had, which is hard to do considering we've just had thirteen in thirteen years.Ā 
  • seth plum said:
    Pray for Appleton, heā€™s hurting more than we arešŸ˜¢
    He knows he probably won't get another job after us
  • MrBurns said:
    seth plum said:
    Pray for Appleton, heā€™s hurting more than we arešŸ˜¢
    He knows he probably won't get another job after us
    OK.
    Pray more, pray harder.
  • AndyG said:
    The key reason we lost yesterday was all down to desire, or lack of it. Gillingham wanted it more plain and simple, a team in the league below us with players playing for them not considered good enough for us gave us a lesson.Ā 

    AndyG said:
    The key reason we lost yesterday was all down to desire, or lack of it. Gillingham wanted it more plain and simple, a team in the league below us with players playing for them not considered good enough for us gave us a lesson. Any manager who fails to get a response losing 2-0 against local rivals with 1600+ fans travelling has got to be in hot water. Its Gillingham we're talking about, not Barcelona!!
  • Sponsored links:


  • edited December 2023
    To be fair, the last time we lost any games under Appleton, we turned around, went to Wigan and went 3-0 up in the first halfā€¦
  • edited December 2023
    Bailey said:

    Charlton fans suddenly caring about the FA Cup where was everyone at the valley v Cray Valley ā€¦ ??? fact is the game was a pain in the bum for us we knew it was Gillingham final and MA was forced to play a team he most likey did not want to ā€¦ and said before it was a case as they walked out the door ā€œ just donā€™t do anything to get injured ā€œ and you could tell that in the performanceĀ 
    I think you are right.Ā 
    Has anyone seen Bailey & Ronnie Moore in the same room ? Just sayingĀ 
  • Melrose said:
    AndyG said:
    The key reason we lost yesterday was all down to desire, or lack of it. Gillingham wanted it more plain and simple, a team in the league below us with players playing for them not considered good enough for us gave us a lesson.Ā 

    AndyG said:
    The key reason we lost yesterday was all down to desire, or lack of it. Gillingham wanted it more plain and simple, a team in the league below us with players playing for them not considered good enough for us gave us a lesson. Any manager who fails to get a response losing 2-0 against local rivals with 1600+ fans travelling has got to be in hot water. Itā€™s Gillingham we're talking about, not Barcelona!!
    I agree totally mate but not sure itā€™s all on the manager how many years and how many managers have been in place where we just seem to have a soft underbelly where teams we should beat out fight us and win by just wanting it more. There seems to an attitude of thinking we just need to turn up to win which obviously isnā€™t the case.Ā 
    We are bang in trouble because we are now in a situation where we need the likes of Tedic and other loan players who know they are likely off in jan having to step up which imo is very unlikelyĀ 
  • NabySarr said:
    redbuttle said:
    Melrose said:
    redbuttle said:
    Melrose said:
    Awful no bottle or heart.Ā 

    Appleton knows a lot of these are not good enough. Ā I just hope he can get them out and replace with players he wants.Ā 
    Appleton needs replacing as well
    He inherited this bunch of bottle jobs. How do you think he feels? . I actually think we know now after hearing his post match interviewĀ 

    He has no idea of a compact competitive formation. He keeps playing May out wide on the right. He continues to play Tedic. He's another Adkins type, had some success in the past, but we'll past his sell by date. In his defence Scott's acquisitions have been appalling
    So what should the club do ? Sack another manager and start again. Let's see what happens in January.Ā 
    Irrespective of where we finish Appleton should start next season and he'd have had two windows with hopefully getting players in that HE wants.
    Not sure about a manager getting two windows. It's league 1, how can we trust him and be sure he will be given the funds and then be able to get promoted, he's never done it before and I don't see him as a long term manager as he isn't championship quality which is where we want to be.Ā 

    It's the same old, get an average manager in, say he doesn't have his players (whatever that means) and then when they inevitably get sacked, the cycle starts again.Ā  He's a football coach, he's paid to coach the players and improve them tactically. I don't see any of these players getting better.Ā 

    I'm not saying he should get sacked as it would genuinely be pointless. We need owners who are actually willing to spend the price it will take to get the higher tier players and a proper manager. It has nothing to do with where we are as a club but simply down to ambition, aka money. We need to spend to get out of this league and we just don't have the juice for it.

    Our best hope is, we luckily get promoted, get another set of owners who come in and buy the club and hope that roll of the dice works. I know I'll probably get someone say to me, 'they've just got here', but we should all know by now the type of takeover this is. None of these people involved have our best interests at heart or care, they just want to boost their own egos or try and make some cash from our situation somehow.

    Or maybe I'm wrong and in January they'll actually show signs of life and spend money on the players good enough to get us promoted and all will be well..

    Edit: wasn't entirely aiming this at you Elf, just generally, that's the view on managers in CAFC
    So on the basis of a manager only being allowed one window to show what he can do, we'd have two managers or more a season.
    I'm not sure that is a recipe for success.
    I am not saying managers in general, I mean this particular manager. I don't trust he has the capabilities to build a promotion worthy squad and get the results. Admittedly though, I put that down to the owners, if we had bank rolled owners with ambition, Appleton wouldn't be our manager and we would have players like Ricardo Santos and Cameron Brannagan instead of Michael Hector and Scott Fraser (all of which will be on similar wages). Instead we have men with no money, who go for the cheap option and won't invest in the club.

    I actually feel sorry for him, just like I did Adkins, Garner, Jackson, Holden all before him. They are out of their depth and not backed financially to top it off.Ā 

    Our best bet and combination so far was probably Garner with Sandgaard as that was a coach who had proven he could implement a system and an owner that had shown he was willing to spend money. Unfortunately, Garner probably didn't get the funds required and didn't have the time, along with Sangaard being ill advised, arrogant and having a poor recruitment team. It's a very vicious cycle and we are just looking to get lucky, like most EFL sides.Ā 

    I have resigned myself to hoping an ambitious person takes an interest and we get another takeover. Will be very happy to be wrong in the future.Ā 
    Santos cost 120k from Barnet, and Brannagan 200k from Liverpool. Our problem isnā€™t money, we are consistently among the largest budgets in the league and even this summer spent more than those fees on players and probably more than our competitors in league 1 did. You mention Fraser, he cost more than both of those players combined. Our problem is recruitment and identifying good players that fit a style/system, not budget.Ā 

    Our recruitment has been really poor for years, even when we sign good players there doesnā€™t seem to be much thought on how they actually fit together in a functioning team. And if there is then we change manager and system 6 months later so that they no longer fit.Ā 

    Fraser is a good example, big money signing for Jacksonā€™s 3-5-2 system, a formation Fraser excelled playing in at MK Dons. 6 months later Jackson is gone and we have barely played that formation sinceĀ 
    I meant if we had bank rolled owners, we would go and buy those players now. That's what a club with ambition would do. It was just an example that if we had owners who wanted to get us out of here, players like that would be our target.Ā 

    You are preaching to the choir mentioning recruitment. I always criticise our recruitment team, they are fraudulent and stealing a wage. We don't have a top 10 player in any position in the league except Alfie May. Lloyd Jones, CBT and Dobson all worthy of a mention who over the course of a season, could show the consistency to be in that conversation. I'd maybe extend it to players like Edun and T.Watson if we see more of them. Overall though, it's another utter guff squad.Ā 

    I can't believe people are earning a wage at this club identifying players. Said it time and time again, when you look at our stature as a club and facilities at our disposal, we are pound for pound the most wasteful club in this league when it comes to spending money on players and not reaching our potential. I could name you at least one player, from each other league 1 side that walks into our match day squad. That's a serious problem.
    Iā€™m sorry but expecting owners to come in and drop 7 figure fees on players is never going to happen! The club already loses probably Ā£8-10m with limited investment in the squad, no one is going to buy us in league 1 and put down that kind of money. It would be a huge gamble to end up losing Ā£15m and you could still not go up and end up in a hole. Not realisticĀ 

    We should be looking to sign the next Santos and Brannagans, that wouldnā€™t cost that kind of money and would then develop with us into championship footballers. Unfortunately we donā€™t have a recruitment team good enough to identify themĀ 
  • AndyG said:
    Melrose said:
    AndyG said:
    The key reason we lost yesterday was all down to desire, or lack of it. Gillingham wanted it more plain and simple, a team in the league below us with players playing for them not considered good enough for us gave us a lesson.Ā 

    AndyG said:
    The key reason we lost yesterday was all down to desire, or lack of it. Gillingham wanted it more plain and simple, a team in the league below us with players playing for them not considered good enough for us gave us a lesson. Any manager who fails to get a response losing 2-0 against local rivals with 1600+ fans travelling has got to be in hot water. Itā€™s Gillingham we're talking about, not Barcelona!!
    I agree totally mate but not sure itā€™s all on the manager how many years and how many managers have been in place where we just seem to have a soft underbelly where teams we should beat out fight us and win by just wanting it more. There seems to an attitude of thinking we just need to turn up to win which obviously isnā€™t the case.Ā 
    We are bang in trouble because we are now in a situation where we need the likes of Tedic and other loan players who know they are likely off in jan having to step up which imo is very unlikelyĀ 
    A lot of sense talked there Andy. I suppose I'm a bit fired up because 1) I never wanted Appleton. 2) I live closer to Gills than Charlton and am gonna take some considerable stick now. I suppose it could be worse....we could be Reading :smile:
  • edited December 2023
    NabySarr said:
    NabySarr said:
    redbuttle said:
    Melrose said:
    redbuttle said:
    Melrose said:
    Awful no bottle or heart.Ā 

    Appleton knows a lot of these are not good enough. Ā I just hope he can get them out and replace with players he wants.Ā 
    Appleton needs replacing as well
    He inherited this bunch of bottle jobs. How do you think he feels? . I actually think we know now after hearing his post match interviewĀ 

    He has no idea of a compact competitive formation. He keeps playing May out wide on the right. He continues to play Tedic. He's another Adkins type, had some success in the past, but we'll past his sell by date. In his defence Scott's acquisitions have been appalling
    So what should the club do ? Sack another manager and start again. Let's see what happens in January.Ā 
    Irrespective of where we finish Appleton should start next season and he'd have had two windows with hopefully getting players in that HE wants.
    Not sure about a manager getting two windows. It's league 1, how can we trust him and be sure he will be given the funds and then be able to get promoted, he's never done it before and I don't see him as a long term manager as he isn't championship quality which is where we want to be.Ā 

    It's the same old, get an average manager in, say he doesn't have his players (whatever that means) and then when they inevitably get sacked, the cycle starts again.Ā  He's a football coach, he's paid to coach the players and improve them tactically. I don't see any of these players getting better.Ā 

    I'm not saying he should get sacked as it would genuinely be pointless. We need owners who are actually willing to spend the price it will take to get the higher tier players and a proper manager. It has nothing to do with where we are as a club but simply down to ambition, aka money. We need to spend to get out of this league and we just don't have the juice for it.

    Our best hope is, we luckily get promoted, get another set of owners who come in and buy the club and hope that roll of the dice works. I know I'll probably get someone say to me, 'they've just got here', but we should all know by now the type of takeover this is. None of these people involved have our best interests at heart or care, they just want to boost their own egos or try and make some cash from our situation somehow.

    Or maybe I'm wrong and in January they'll actually show signs of life and spend money on the players good enough to get us promoted and all will be well..

    Edit: wasn't entirely aiming this at you Elf, just generally, that's the view on managers in CAFC
    So on the basis of a manager only being allowed one window to show what he can do, we'd have two managers or more a season.
    I'm not sure that is a recipe for success.
    I am not saying managers in general, I mean this particular manager. I don't trust he has the capabilities to build a promotion worthy squad and get the results. Admittedly though, I put that down to the owners, if we had bank rolled owners with ambition, Appleton wouldn't be our manager and we would have players like Ricardo Santos and Cameron Brannagan instead of Michael Hector and Scott Fraser (all of which will be on similar wages). Instead we have men with no money, who go for the cheap option and won't invest in the club.

    I actually feel sorry for him, just like I did Adkins, Garner, Jackson, Holden all before him. They are out of their depth and not backed financially to top it off.Ā 

    Our best bet and combination so far was probably Garner with Sandgaard as that was a coach who had proven he could implement a system and an owner that had shown he was willing to spend money. Unfortunately, Garner probably didn't get the funds required and didn't have the time, along with Sangaard being ill advised, arrogant and having a poor recruitment team. It's a very vicious cycle and we are just looking to get lucky, like most EFL sides.Ā 

    I have resigned myself to hoping an ambitious person takes an interest and we get another takeover. Will be very happy to be wrong in the future.Ā 
    Santos cost 120k from Barnet, and Brannagan 200k from Liverpool. Our problem isnā€™t money, we are consistently among the largest budgets in the league and even this summer spent more than those fees on players and probably more than our competitors in league 1 did. You mention Fraser, he cost more than both of those players combined. Our problem is recruitment and identifying good players that fit a style/system, not budget.Ā 

    Our recruitment has been really poor for years, even when we sign good players there doesnā€™t seem to be much thought on how they actually fit together in a functioning team. And if there is then we change manager and system 6 months later so that they no longer fit.Ā 

    Fraser is a good example, big money signing for Jacksonā€™s 3-5-2 system, a formation Fraser excelled playing in at MK Dons. 6 months later Jackson is gone and we have barely played that formation sinceĀ 
    I meant if we had bank rolled owners, we would go and buy those players now. That's what a club with ambition would do. It was just an example that if we had owners who wanted to get us out of here, players like that would be our target.Ā 

    You are preaching to the choir mentioning recruitment. I always criticise our recruitment team, they are fraudulent and stealing a wage. We don't have a top 10 player in any position in the league except Alfie May. Lloyd Jones, CBT and Dobson all worthy of a mention who over the course of a season, could show the consistency to be in that conversation. I'd maybe extend it to players like Edun and T.Watson if we see more of them. Overall though, it's another utter guff squad.Ā 

    I can't believe people are earning a wage at this club identifying players. Said it time and time again, when you look at our stature as a club and facilities at our disposal, we are pound for pound the most wasteful club in this league when it comes to spending money on players and not reaching our potential. I could name you at least one player, from each other league 1 side that walks into our match day squad. That's a serious problem.
    Iā€™m sorry but expecting owners to come in and drop 7 figure fees on players is never going to happen! The club already loses probably Ā£8-10m with limited investment in the squad, no one is going to buy us in league 1 and put down that kind of money. It would be a huge gamble to end up losing Ā£15m and you could still not go up and end up in a hole. Not realisticĀ 

    We should be looking to sign the next Santos and Brannagans, that wouldnā€™t cost that kind of money and would then develop with us into championship footballers. Unfortunately we donā€™t have a recruitment team good enough to identify themĀ 
    Tend to agree. Taking the Ipswich approach would be lovely but unless we hit the ownership lottery, it ainā€™t happening.Ā Players like Brannagan and Santos are well established, too-good-for-this-league types. If theyā€™re moving on now, theyā€™d want Championship football. To take Santos from Bolton to Charlton for example would require a no brainer 3-4 million transfer fee and then a Championship level wage to go with it.

    Looking at the recruitment style of the summer of 2011, a lot of those players became very good Championship & beyond players but the likes of Dale Stephens for example had just had a ā€œfailedā€ loan at Southampton, Michael Morrison wasnā€™t wanted at Sheff Wed etc.

    Thatā€™s how we were able to put together such an excellent side without splashing multi millions.

    Unfortunately Iā€™d be concerned that in the modern day, people would look at someone like Morrison before he played a game and ask why are we signing a competitionā€™s cast-offsā€¦
  • Melrose said:
    AndyG said:
    Melrose said:
    AndyG said:
    The key reason we lost yesterday was all down to desire, or lack of it. Gillingham wanted it more plain and simple, a team in the league below us with players playing for them not considered good enough for us gave us a lesson.Ā 

    AndyG said:
    The key reason we lost yesterday was all down to desire, or lack of it. Gillingham wanted it more plain and simple, a team in the league below us with players playing for them not considered good enough for us gave us a lesson. Any manager who fails to get a response losing 2-0 against local rivals with 1600+ fans travelling has got to be in hot water. Itā€™s Gillingham we're talking about, not Barcelona!!
    I agree totally mate but not sure itā€™s all on the manager how many years and how many managers have been in place where we just seem to have a soft underbelly where teams we should beat out fight us and win by just wanting it more. There seems to an attitude of thinking we just need to turn up to win which obviously isnā€™t the case.Ā 
    We are bang in trouble because we are now in a situation where we need the likes of Tedic and other loan players who know they are likely off in jan having to step up which imo is very unlikelyĀ 
    A lot of sense talked there Andy. I suppose I'm a bit fired up because 1) I never wanted Appleton. 2) I live closer to Gills than Charlton and am gonna take some considerable stick now. I suppose it could be worse....we could be Reading :smile:
    Your lucky mate my local club (20 min drive away) is Wrexham and I have to keep trying to explain to people why I have to travel to the other end of the country literally driving past dozens of other stadiums to watch CAFC šŸ˜‚Ā 
  • Special praise to those Charlton fans who have a seat and continual to stand in the walk ways that are supposed to be kept clear for emergency reasons.

    If I had a pound for hearing the word cxxt today I would be a millionaire.

    You spend more time singing crap songs about the opposition and its players.

    Bugger of and support a club more akin to your behaviour.
    Weā€™ll have em!Ā 
    Please do.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Roland Out Forever!