Gavin Carter "It's a long-term project"

ShootersHillGuru

AFKABartram said:

Henry Irving said:

Good interview.

Having the 7th to 12th largest wage bill in time doesn't make a great slogan but it is sensible and achievable. 

I don’t understand that, 7th to 12th largest wage bill in time? Could someone expand / clarify please? 

Strange comment isn’t it ? I can see that there is a correlation between size of wage bill and relative success but I still think it’s an odd way of looking at it in terms of progressing the club. Good management, stability and incremental improvements are certainly just as important. Who cares if Charlton have the 13th largest budget but achieve 9th place in football terms. I fully see that without increases in budgets that success is much tougher to achieve or sustain but it still seems just an odd way to quantify the ambition. 

CafcWest

Taking a year to recruit a CEO is a long time, but not uncommon.  I worked in HR for a long time and most CEOs (assuming we are trying to get an existing CEO from another team) are on a minimum of 6 months notice and maybe even more.  Add that to finding a candidate that 'fits', wants a new role and is willing to (potentially) relocate and you can see why it's taken a year.

NabySarr

AFKABartram said:

Henry Irving said:

Good interview.

Having the 7th to 12th largest wage bill in time doesn't make a great slogan but it is sensible and achievable. 

I don’t understand that, 7th to 12th largest wage bill in time? Could someone expand / clarify please? 

Aim for a top half squad in 3 years time, to do that we are going to move the budget gradually towards a top half budget. Once we have this, if we overperform our budget like we have this season, then we will be in the top 8 and play offs 

To me it sounds like a sensible plan to continue building on the progress we’ve made. We might get there sooner and finish in the top half in the next 2 years, but I think 3 years is a sensible time frame 

DamoNorthStand

I think this planned trajectory is both realistic and achievable. As much as it pains me to say, the Millwall blueprint is what we need to follow.

I think this year can set the platform for gradual improvements over the next 2-3 years.

valleynick66

We aren’t splashing the cash this summer then but maybe a little more than last year is how I read it. 

Survival remains the realistic target. 

Slowly slowly. 

DamoNorthStand

valleynick66 said:

We aren’t splashing the cash this summer then but maybe a little more than last year is how I read it. 

Survival remains the realistic target. 

Slowly slowly. 

If we spent more than last year I would be happy. Would rather spend it on 3-4 players this time (average of £3m each) than on 8-10 like last time which included squad fillers.

Quality over quantity.

And also use the prem loan system better this time.

fenaddick

DamoNorthStand said:

valleynick66 said:

We aren’t splashing the cash this summer then but maybe a little more than last year is how I read it. 

Survival remains the realistic target. 

Slowly slowly. 

If we spent more than last year I would be happy. Would rather spend it on 3-4 players this time (average of £3m each) than on 8-10 like last time which included squad fillers.

Quality over quantity.

And also use the prem loan system better this time.

Think we’ll spend more on wages but without some decent sales I think fees spent won’t surpass those of last year 

ForeverAddickted

Hopefully Sichenje coming in, is a sign of the activity we can likely expect this summer - Unknowns from more bizarre locations, that have been scouted properly, and are a damn sight cheaper than those with existing Championship / League One experience.

Although given the current rules, is it three or four slots we have available for players like Sichenje who wouldn't necessarily get a Work Permit, because they dont have the caps from playing International Football etc.

mendonca

I don't think fans 'don't always like' KPIs.
They most likely don't like hearing boardroom or LinkedIn chat applied in a public setting. A chairman should be savvier in how they communicate and tailor their language to the audience.

stoneroses19

fenaddick said:

DamoNorthStand said:

valleynick66 said:

We aren’t splashing the cash this summer then but maybe a little more than last year is how I read it. 

Survival remains the realistic target. 

Slowly slowly. 

If we spent more than last year I would be happy. Would rather spend it on 3-4 players this time (average of £3m each) than on 8-10 like last time which included squad fillers.

Quality over quantity.

And also use the prem loan system better this time.

Think we’ll spend more on wages but without some decent sales I think fees spent won’t surpass those of last year 

I’d say that’s a smart way to go too. Pick up decent free agents (whether that’s English leagues or looking internationally) who are on higher wages. 

Swansea managed to sign Vipotnik as a free agent, and he is currently the top scorer in Championship. 

Callumcafc

ShootersHillGuru said:

AFKABartram said:

Henry Irving said:

Good interview.

Having the 7th to 12th largest wage bill in time doesn't make a great slogan but it is sensible and achievable. 

I don’t understand that, 7th to 12th largest wage bill in time? Could someone expand / clarify please? 

Strange comment isn’t it ? I can see that there is a correlation between size of wage bill and relative success but I still think it’s an odd way of looking at it in terms of progressing the club. Good management, stability and incremental improvements are certainly just as important. Who cares if Charlton have the 13th largest budget but achieve 9th place in football terms. I fully see that without increases in budgets that success is much tougher to achieve or sustain but it still seems just an odd way to quantify the ambition. 

Is it strange if you can see the correlation?

As Henry says, it’s dry but it’s also a clear, achievable and measured plan that should see the team continue to grow season over season.

We don’t have to think about the nuts and bolts of progressing a football club as fans but to me, it’s comforting to know there are some sensible plans being made by those in charge who are the ones that should be thinking about such things.

Henry Irving

AFKABartram said:

Henry Irving said:

Good interview.

Having the 7th to 12th largest wage bill in time doesn't make a great slogan but it is sensible and achievable. 

I don’t understand that, 7th to 12th largest wage bill in time? Could someone expand / clarify please? 

GC talks about quartiles ie dividing the league into 4 quarters so top six = 1st quartile, 7 to 12 = 2nd quartile, 13th to 18th = 3rd quartile, 19th to 24th = 4th quartile.

Wage wise we're currently in the 4th quartile but playing wise in the 3rd, just, so we're outperforming our budget. That's one of our targets/KPIs.

The board's aim is to increase our spend so were at least the 12th biggest budget in the division.  When you factor in the parachute clubs and the mega spenders like Brum and Wrexham we're unlikely to make top six IMHO.

But with 8 play-off places and (big) if we can outperform our budget then being in the 2nd quartile ie 7th to 12th gives us a fighter's chance of promotion.

Now HOW they increase the budget isn't spelt out but it is hinted at eg a commercial minded CEO and possible new external investors.  

The other traditional methods are increasing ticket income and selling players, neither of which are traditionally popular with some fans.

ShootersHillGuru

DamoNorthStand said:

valleynick66 said:

We aren’t splashing the cash this summer then but maybe a little more than last year is how I read it. 

Survival remains the realistic target. 

Slowly slowly. 

If we spent more than last year I would be happy. Would rather spend it on 3-4 players this time (average of £3m each) than on 8-10 like last time which included squad fillers.

Quality over quantity.

And also use the prem loan system better this time.

100% this. I’ve been very critical of last summer’s recruitment but on reflection I can see we needed to build a squad for last seasons “unexpected” promotion. That’s not to say it’s hugely disappointing that two of our money signings are now out on loan back in division one and by all accounts not pulling up many trees. We do have a better core than when we got promoted but in my humble opinion we need at least six players who are going to be nailed on starters in terms of quality and not punts. I envisage quite a churn again this summer. At some point that needs to stop and we think in terms of acquiring maybe one or two every window to improve us. Certainly a slow burn but yes quality over quantity.

KingKinsella

DamoNorthStand said:

valleynick66 said:

We aren’t splashing the cash this summer then but maybe a little more than last year is how I read it. 

Survival remains the realistic target. 

Slowly slowly. 

If we spent more than last year I would be happy. Would rather spend it on 3-4 players this time (average of £3m each) than on 8-10 like last time which included squad fillers.

Quality over quantity.

And also use the prem loan system better this time.

Quality and fitness over quantity.
Definitely losing out on Prem loans, but that wasn't in the plan..... was it

KingKinsella

stoneroses19 said:

fenaddick said:

DamoNorthStand said:

valleynick66 said:

We aren’t splashing the cash this summer then but maybe a little more than last year is how I read it. 

Survival remains the realistic target. 

Slowly slowly. 

If we spent more than last year I would be happy. Would rather spend it on 3-4 players this time (average of £3m each) than on 8-10 like last time which included squad fillers.

Quality over quantity.

And also use the prem loan system better this time.

Think we’ll spend more on wages but without some decent sales I think fees spent won’t surpass those of last year 

I’d say that’s a smart way to go too. Pick up decent free agents (whether that’s English leagues or looking internationally) who are on higher wages. 

Swansea managed to sign Vipotnik as a free agent, and he is currently the top scorer in Championship. 

Do we have the scouting system to recruit talent from abroad?
NJ prefers  his ex-players, I wonder how many out there are worth signing (that haven't been signed already)..and are injury free eg. Bell , excellent player wish he had played all season

fenaddick

KingKinsella said:

stoneroses19 said:

fenaddick said:

DamoNorthStand said:

valleynick66 said:

We aren’t splashing the cash this summer then but maybe a little more than last year is how I read it. 

Survival remains the realistic target. 

Slowly slowly. 

If we spent more than last year I would be happy. Would rather spend it on 3-4 players this time (average of £3m each) than on 8-10 like last time which included squad fillers.

Quality over quantity.

And also use the prem loan system better this time.

Think we’ll spend more on wages but without some decent sales I think fees spent won’t surpass those of last year 

I’d say that’s a smart way to go too. Pick up decent free agents (whether that’s English leagues or looking internationally) who are on higher wages. 

Swansea managed to sign Vipotnik as a free agent, and he is currently the top scorer in Championship. 

Do we have the scouting system to recruit talent from abroad?
NJ prefers  his ex-players, I wonder how many out there are worth signing (that haven't been signed already)..and are injury free eg. Bell , excellent player wish he had played all season

Yes, Sichenje is evidence of that as is Chapple’s trips abroad that were discussed at the last online directors thing. I think we can be pretty certain that the network wasn’t properly set up in the last couple of years and that is part of why we’ve signed so many players known to NJ, Chapple or Andy Scott already 

LargeAddick

Whatever budget you have you need to get the recruitment right. A bigger budget doesn't necessarily mean a higher placed finish, if it did we'd know where everyone is going to finish before the season started.

NabySarr

fenaddick said:

KingKinsella said:

stoneroses19 said:

fenaddick said:

DamoNorthStand said:

valleynick66 said:

We aren’t splashing the cash this summer then but maybe a little more than last year is how I read it. 

Survival remains the realistic target. 

Slowly slowly. 

If we spent more than last year I would be happy. Would rather spend it on 3-4 players this time (average of £3m each) than on 8-10 like last time which included squad fillers.

Quality over quantity.

And also use the prem loan system better this time.

Think we’ll spend more on wages but without some decent sales I think fees spent won’t surpass those of last year 

I’d say that’s a smart way to go too. Pick up decent free agents (whether that’s English leagues or looking internationally) who are on higher wages. 

Swansea managed to sign Vipotnik as a free agent, and he is currently the top scorer in Championship. 

Do we have the scouting system to recruit talent from abroad?
NJ prefers  his ex-players, I wonder how many out there are worth signing (that haven't been signed already)..and are injury free eg. Bell , excellent player wish he had played all season

Yes, Sichenje is evidence of that as is Chapple’s trips abroad that were discussed at the last online directors thing. I think we can be pretty certain that the network wasn’t properly set up in the last couple of years and that is part of why we’ve signed so many players known to NJ, Chapple or Andy Scott already 

Exactly. We didn’t have it setup because it takes time and money. So we’ve previously relied on players we know, either because Jones has worked with them or because they play in league 1 or the championship. Now we can broaden our horizons a little bit and Sichenje is the first step 

I actually think the January window is a great example of what we should be doing, but obviously more long term contracts in a summer window. Mostly signing experienced championship players at good ages, mix in some overseas talent that we think fits the profile we are looking for and then a PL loan if needed 

Henry Irving

LargeAddick said:

Whatever budget you have you need to get the recruitment right. A bigger budget doesn't necessarily mean a higher placed finish, if it did we'd know where everyone is going to finish before the season started.

Which is why Carter said that while there is a correlation between spend and league position, one of Jones' KPIs is to outperform that, which he did with Luton and is currently doing with us.

But if we increase his budget Jones has a better chance of us finishing higher.

jimmymelrose

He’s wrong in saying that expanding the play offs increases chances of promotion.  It just changes the chances.

thenewbie

Henry Irving said:

LargeAddick said:

Whatever budget you have you need to get the recruitment right. A bigger budget doesn't necessarily mean a higher placed finish, if it did we'd know where everyone is going to finish before the season started.

Which is why Carter said that while there is a correlation between spend and league position, one of Jones' KPIs is to outperform that, which he did with Luton and is currently doing with us.

But if we increase his budget Jones has a better chance of us finishing higher.

If we take the bottom 3 budget line at face value, we are theoretically 4 places above where we "should" be so hypothetically if we overperform at the same rate a midtable budget would put us in the playoffs. All theoretical of course but that seems to be the thinking of the SLT.

WSS

jimmymelrose said:

He’s wrong in saying that expanding the play offs increases chances of promotion.  It just changes the chances.

So if only 3 teams went up automatically and there were no PO places, it wouldn't decrease the chances of promotion?

SouthLincsAddick

ShootersHillGuru said:

AFKABartram said:

Henry Irving said:

Good interview.

Having the 7th to 12th largest wage bill in time doesn't make a great slogan but it is sensible and achievable. 

I don’t understand that, 7th to 12th largest wage bill in time? Could someone expand / clarify please? 

Strange comment isn’t it ? I can see that there is a correlation between size of wage bill and relative success but I still think it’s an odd way of looking at it in terms of progressing the club. Good management, stability and incremental improvements are certainly just as important. Who cares if Charlton have the 13th largest budget but achieve 9th place in football terms. I fully see that without increases in budgets that success is much tougher to achieve or sustain but it still seems just an odd way to quantify the ambition. 

Everything in this league is about how big your wage bill is. You can’t attract quality players unless you are competitive with the wages, those players will just go elsewhere. In reality our L1 recruits in the summer were 3rd or 4th choice, the first choice players went to other teams offering more money. Having a large wage bill is no guarantee of success, look at Leicester, but if you want edge to a possible play off finish you’ll need bigger wages than 22nd/23rd. Building the team in a sustainable way is a sensible idea. Sheff Wed is the perfect example of what can go wrong, if an owner risks everything and throws money at promotion, it crippled the owner, he was unable to get any payback so the club just rotted.

LargeAddick

A top half competitive squad in three years? So the PL in what, 10 years?

fenaddick

LargeAddick said:

A top half competitive squad in three years? So the PL in what, 10 years?

I think to some extent once you get that top half squad you’re aiming for the PL every year, it’s such fine margins. Obviously after a set period of time you need to adapt if you haven’t gone up, I expect the owners would be aiming for PL football a bit quicker than 10 years, maybe 7/8

killerandflash

I imagine Luton  on the way up to the Premier League massively outperformed their budget, but last season,  massively underperformed their budget. Yes, much of their parachute money went on their new stadium, but they finished behind Oxford and Pompey. An outlier in both seasons. 

Of the 3 teams that went up the season before us, Pompey and Oxford have been near the bottom both seasons, whereas Derby have moved to another level this season, so a more positive example.

bobmunro

jimmymelrose said:

He’s wrong in saying that expanding the play offs increases chances of promotion.  It just changes the chances.

Changes the chances in what way? - for better or for worse, or something completely different?

Bedsaddick

jimmymelrose said:

He’s wrong in saying that expanding the play offs increases chances of promotion.  It just changes the chances.

It only makes things harder than before if you finish 5th or 6th . 

Callumcafc

LargeAddick said:

A top half competitive squad in three years? So the PL in what, 10 years?

I think the idea is to be a top half competitive team within 3 and then have a go at it season after season after season from there on.

Have a look at a team like Coventry. First two seasons after promotion they finished 16th and 12th. In the nearly four seasons since they’ve been 5th (lost PO final), 9th, 5th (lost PO semi) and currently 1st.

Its going to be hard as a team without parachute payments to say we’re definitely going to aim top six or top two, you just have to be good enough to be in the mix and eventually, by being in the mix for long enough, it will click one season for you. Millwall another unfortunate example of this.

valleynick66

ForeverAddickted said:

Hopefully Sichenje coming in, is a sign of the activity we can likely expect this summer - Unknowns from more bizarre locations, that have been scouted properly, and are a damn sight cheaper than those with existing Championship / League One experience.

Although given the current rules, is it three or four slots we have available for players like Sichenje who wouldn't necessarily get a Work Permit, because they dont have the caps from playing International Football etc.

Well we need to remember that Sichenje is effectively an early summer signing. So his fee is part of that budget. 

The comfort for me is  that Phil Chappell I assume was fully involved in the December : January activity and thereafter whereas last summer was still influenced by Scott and others.  In other words the most recent signings all positive whereas prior they are mixed.