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WASPI

Hope this isn’t construed as being political because it crosses over party lines and at this point nobody knows the views of either the government or opposition. I’ll own up and say that I have a dog in the fight because my wife was born in 1957 and therefore falls within the scope of the WASPI claim. It looks as if battle lines are being drawn with arguments both for and against the ombudsman’s findings and recommendations. I am genuinely interested in hearing the views of this forum because it always offers a genuine cross section of opinion. 


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Comments

  • Also have skin in the game, MsAA being born in ‘59. However, I don’t understand why compensation is due because government agencies told porkies. 
  • My wife is in this she was born early 1954. From memory she only found out about the change fairly late on probably in her 50’s so guessing early 2000’s, but then if my memory serves me correctly there was another change that put back her retirement age to 66 and some days, I assume this was the time the men retirement age was also changed. Frankly the 2nd change had more affect to her than the first as we had planned things which meant altering date for a holiday of a lifetime, but that was only a minor inconvenience.
  • Rob7Lee said:
    I'm a bit in-between on this.

    For me 1995 was ample notice, I certainly knew about it back in the 90's, and I'm neither a woman nor effected in any way, I remember numerous 'discussions' at work at the time, usually (rememeber this was nearly 30 years ago) a woman complaining that she's going to have to work 5 more years and some bloke responding with 'well you wanted equality'.
    I also recall getting a letter from the Pension Trustees as there had been a number of questions as to if they were going to also increase the age you could take your pension (I worked at the Woolwich at the time and their pension paid out at 60 for both men and women, still does).

    This is a good summary

    https://www.ombudsman.org.uk/complaints-womens-state-pension-age

    Clearly failings, predominantly around making sure everyone knew, but not solely.

    But someone born in 1957 was 38 when the changes to 65 were announced, i.e. still well over half their working life to go (I was about the same age when the increase to 67/8 was announced). Whilst I accept there will be people who didn't pick up on the changes, and the DWP could have done more to advertise it, I don't think that in itself is a reason to pay compensation or bring the age back to 60. How can you tell who did know and who didn't know?

    EDIT: a question for you both as effected, when did you know about the change from 60 to 65?
    To be honest I’m in the middle too. Once the increase in working years was announced I think 80% of people would have been aware. Having said that there are always people (20% ?) who don’t know their arse from their elbow and of that 80% or so many wouldn’t have been in a position financially to make adjustments to their finances and some not realise the severity of the financial implications. The truth of the matter is that the changes were badly handled. As for the ombudsman’s recommendations. I think the current government will rightly need to look at every aspect of this which will take months if not years. That means it’s going to be the next government that will need to make the decisions. I think we’re a long way off seeing a conclusion to this. I would say though that if the ombudsman’s findings are not in the main accepted then what’s the point of the ombudsman system ? You must surely assume that findings were impartial and fair. On that basis I think compensation is due. 
  • What is interesting with these several contemporary cases is the ‘class action’ nature of current events.
    People have discovered in recent years they are not alone, whether it is WASPI, the contaminated blood horror, or the Horizon scandal, or dangerous cladding, or manky concrete making schools dangerous, Windrush discrimination and so on
    Demonstrates the power of people working collectively.
  • I think there is a clear case for compensation but in the same way as Alzheimers isn't classed as an illness in terms of NHS support, here is a case that putting it right will cost too much money. I can't see any Government being able to find the money needed.
  • I think there is a clear case for compensation but in the same way as Alzheimers isn't classed as an illness in terms of NHS support, here is a case that putting it right will cost too much money. I can't see any Government being able to find the money needed.
    This I think is the nub of the matter. Whoever is in government, they will find it very difficult. This government will be very happy to pass the problem on to the next ( Labour ?) government and who can blame them. The next government will have the headache and take the flack. Starmer or whomever it might be in Downing Street won’t have the option of kicking it into the following term. It’s going to piss off people regardless of outcome.
  • My wife is in this she was born early 1954. From memory she only found out about the change fairly late on probably in her 50’s so guessing early 2000’s, but then if my memory serves me correctly there was another change that put back her retirement age to 66 and some days, I assume this was the time the men retirement age was also changed. Frankly the 2nd change had more affect to her than the first as we had planned things which meant altering date for a holiday of a lifetime, but that was only a minor inconvenience.
    Same here - |I was born Feb 1953 and there was another amendment. I definitely knew about the age change re my pension although I can't recall receiving official notice of it  and I have kept all my pension paperwork.  There was a lot of press coverage. I certainly don't expect compensation.  
  • edited March 27
    My dear lady wife is also  mid century vintage, She had plans in place to retire at 60, knowing full well it was very likely the state pension age would rise to 65/66. 
    I think this is called due diligence. I think any compensation should be means tested, an reflect any actual hardship endured
  • The whole matter is confusing to the layperson as successive governments tried to do a lot of different things more or or less at the same time eg raise (as well as equalise) the pension age and introduce the 'new' state pension alongside the old one.

    'Er indoors would have not known much about it had I not appraised her of the facts as I understood them.

    I'd be very surprised if any compensation will be payable given that the raison d'etre was to save money and they would argue that is what they have done.

    Sad for the 200K+ women that passed away between the age of 60 and 66. The argument might be made that statistically men live a shorter time than women so what about the men that have died between 60 and 66 or even 65 and 66 given that the male retirement age was 65 when that of women was 60.
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  • I am pretty much with Rob7Lee

    was widely publicised at time - not sure why people were not aware
  • I think there is a clear case for compensation but in the same way as Alzheimers isn't classed as an illness in terms of NHS support, here is a case that putting it right will cost too much money. I can't see any Government being able to find the money needed.
    What's the compensation for ? Sticking your head in the sand & not taking ownership of your life & finances? Of daydreaming through life & just expecting that what you thought you were due at age 60 is still going to happen without checking along the way. 

    Yes it was poor by the Coalition in 2010 to accelerate the retirement age but if you had been paying attention from 1995 at least you would have had some plan in place to mitigate it. 






  • Try to make ends meet
    You’re a slave to money
    Then you die
  • I think there is a clear case for compensation but in the same way as Alzheimers isn't classed as an illness in terms of NHS support, here is a case that putting it right will cost too much money. I can't see any Government being able to find the money needed.
    What's the compensation for ? Sticking your head in the sand & not taking ownership of your life & finances? Of daydreaming through life & just expecting that what you thought you were due at age 60 is still going to happen without checking along the way. 

    Yes it was poor by the Coalition in 2010 to accelerate the retirement age but if you had been paying attention from 1995 at least you would have had some plan in place to mitigate it. 






    Totally agree. My wife is affected and if compensation is paid then I'll take it but the arguments for compensation don't hold water in my view.

    If you read the Ombudsman report recommending compensation it is for "maladministration".  It lists page upon page of initiatives taken by DWP to publicise the changes back in 1995 than at various times subsequently.  DWP produced pamphlets, newspaper adverts, etc. The Ombudsman states - Accurate information was publicly available through DWP’s agencies, pension education campaigns, leaflets and website.

    Despite this, DWPs own research found the majority of women in 2006 still thought pension age was 60.

    In 2007 DWP wrote to women directly.  This seems to be criticised as being a year late. Problems over Data Protection precluded personal information being sent without absolute proof it was only going to reach the intended recipient.

    In 2014 the changes to the State Pension system were announced - 
    There was timely and accurate information available about this. Says the Ombudsman.

    So as a result of the lack of the public's interest in pensions, made ridiculously unintelligible by legislation, DWP were aware that women were generally uninformed/uninterested in details around State pensions.

    This was publicised at the time and was followed by organised complaints from the WASPIs. 

    The Ombudsman concludes - We found that DWP did not adequately investigate and respond to complaints about these issues.

    So the Ombudsman says -
    We found that failings in DWP’s communication about the 1995 Pensions Act negatively affected complainants’ sense of personal autonomy and control over their finances. Complainants also lost opportunities to make informed decisions about some things and to do some things differently.

    So the compensation is for Complainants who might have done SOME THINGS differently about SOME THINGS they didn't understand and the DWP's failings were the inability to magically discover how to get people to bother to read pensions literature or recall pensions information given to them for more than 5 minutes and override Data Protection rules.

    What I don't understand is why "Complainants" didn't just ask for a State pension forecast from DWP if they were so perplexed and/or undertaking an in depth financial planning exercise.





  • Women are discriminated against in parts of the tax system, but in this instance I don't agree with their case, as to me sufficient notice was given.

    And governments do change the rules, which will have a long lasting impact on us all, and that's their right. 
  • Another example of 'compensation culture', another case of 'don't ask don't get' and all too often those who do ask and get are 'compensated' for next to nothing, and those who should be entitled to damages and/or compensation get nothing or wait a long time to have their case settled, e.g. the now famous group of 'sub postmasters'. I m o the Waspies can just buzz off, but I suspect there will be some 'deal' done just to shut them up
  • edited March 27
    I think an ombudsman will have good reason for their judgement. It seems to me that for such a major change, everybody affected should have got a letter from the DWP as a minimum explaining the consequences. Having said that, through my working life, I have always looked at the state pension as something I might not receive with the possibility of the age being pushed upwards. A bit extreme but it ensures you rely on other things. We must appreciate that some women had their retirement age raised by 5 years at a stroke. It is messy as somebody born a month later may have to wait 5 years longer for something they expected to get much earlier.
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  • se9addick said:
    As a 38 year old I’m basing my retirement planning on the assumption that will be no state pension when I get to the end of my working career (which, based on my mortgage, will be sometime in the year 2800). 
    Same (29 yr old). I have what should be by the time I retire a fairly generous public sector pension but will only be able to take that from state pension age without incurring significant penalties. State pension age will likely be 85 by the time I get there so the issue for me is having enough of a pot elsewhere to see me through from 55ish when I plan on winding down (part time etc.) to state pension age when that kicks in. 
  • se9addick said:
    As a 38 year old I’m basing my retirement planning on the assumption that will be no state pension when I get to the end of my working career (which, based on my mortgage, will be sometime in the year 2800). 
    Same (29 yr old). I have what should be by the time I retire a fairly generous public sector pension but will only be able to take that from state pension age without incurring significant penalties. State pension age will likely be 85 by the time I get there so the issue for me is having enough of a pot elsewhere to see me through from 55ish when I plan on winding down (part time etc.) to state pension age when that kicks in. 
    I’d be very surprised if by the time you reach state pensionable age there will even be a state pension to be had. I think anyone under age 40 who doesn’t make significant provision for their old age is going to be in bother. 
  • se9addick said:
    As a 38 year old I’m basing my retirement planning on the assumption that will be no state pension when I get to the end of my working career (which, based on my mortgage, will be sometime in the year 2800). 
    Same (29 yr old). I have what should be by the time I retire a fairly generous public sector pension but will only be able to take that from state pension age without incurring significant penalties. State pension age will likely be 85 by the time I get there so the issue for me is having enough of a pot elsewhere to see me through from 55ish when I plan on winding down (part time etc.) to state pension age when that kicks in. 
    I’d be very surprised if by the time you reach state pensionable age there will even be a state pension to be had. I think anyone under age 40 who doesn’t make significant provision for their old age is going to be in bother. 
    Sorry I didnt explain that well. I was meaning my workplace pension kicks in at state pension age. I am in no way relying on any form of state pension.

    I am expecting there to only be a means tested state pension/pension age benefit by that time
  • IF National Insurance is ever incorporated into income tax, that i m o will spell the beginning of the end for the state pension. There will be greater incentives for those who pay into a private pension, and automatic enrolment into a 'works based pension' (presumably audited by 'the state') will be the norm
  • I was born in 1957 so am a WASPI woman, but I can't remember when I first knew about the change.

    I think it's the pace of the change that is the main bone of contention for most women, as most of us would have started our working life expecting to retire at 60. I agree that it was the right thing to equalise the retirement age with men.

    I am not holding out much hope that I'll receive any money, although it would be nice.
  • I think an ombudsman will have good reason for their judgement. It seems to me that for such a major change, everybody affected should have got a letter from the DWP as a minimum explaining the consequences. Having said that, through my working life, I have always looked at the state pension as something I might not receive with the possibility of the age being pushed upwards. A bit extreme but it ensures you rely on other things. We must appreciate that some women had their retirement age raised by 5 years at a stroke. It is messy as somebody born a month later may have to wait 5 years longer for something they expected to get much earlier.
    The only consequence is to delay the start of the state pension. Not difficult to grasp. Compensation for reduced expectations is not normally recognised in law unless it is accompanied by proof that it caused financial loss.

    On the other hand, it could have been explained that we are generally living twice as long after state pension age as our grandparents so are getting twice the pension payout originally envisaged by the State Pension system.

    I would add that the change doesn’t provide savings for the Government to pay compensation at no cost as WASPIS claim, it just reduces the pace of growth in pension payouts.

    Just for the record, pension age for women was increased “at a stroke” to comply with an EU directive to the government to remove discriminatory social security rules.

    The whole point of auto-enrolment was to render reliance on the state system obsolete for the next generation.  Contributing from age 20 to age 70 for the current generation entering the workplace should more than replace current state pension levels particularly if contribution rates are increased gradually over time. The first 10 years of contributions will be the sums that produce perhaps 75%+ of a pension pot. It's called compound interest.

    It's those caught in the middle of the transition who started work after final salary schemes had been abandoned, relying on inadequate rates of DC contribution for their age, that fall between the cracks.
  • The first announcement of changes to retirement age made back in 1995, I remember checking and seeing it was still 65 for me then but proposed that woman`s age would start to equalize from 2010. Then in 2007 another changes announced at the budget that year raising the age to 68, so checked and great still 65 for me. Then Conservative-liberal Democrat government changed it again at their first budget and yes I got caught, moved my retirement age to 66. 
    But note over all those years all you had to do was follow the news papers, broadcasts and current affairs programs to no this.
    So now I wonder if men may be entitled to some compensation.
  • I don’t think there will be a state pension in years to come this is just the way they’re facing it out and pushing it onto companies and individuals.
    This is what we pay our National insurance for to contribute to our retirement but they keep moving goalposts and make us keep paying and get less.  
    I still can’t believe we don’t kick off about it in France they riot if they just talk about doing it. 
    We just nod our heads and agree when the lying politicians say we can’t afford to pay for pensioners who have worked all there lives contributing to a pension and our country 
    But we can afford to spend millions on  wars that have nothing to do with us and illegal immigrates who haven’t contributed a penny to our nation. 
    It stinks we are probably the highest retirement age and lowest paid pension in Europe. 
  • I don’t think there will be a state pension in years to come this is just the way they’re facing it out and pushing it onto companies and individuals.
    This is what we pay our National insurance for to contribute to our retirement but they keep moving goalposts and make us keep paying and get less.  
    I still can’t believe we don’t kick off about it in France they riot if they just talk about doing it. 

    I don’t think the French would be happy about that. 
    I think doing it in England would be more effective.
  • Why were there different retirement ages for men and women? What was the logic?

    Women have had a rough deal on so many things over the years - and still do - but I dont understand how equalising the retirement age was somehow discriminating against them. All it did was put them on an equal footing with men, which is surely what the fight has always been about?
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