Unbeaten run…

Chunes

We were in a historic slump and Jones took us on a near-historic unbeaten run. I struggle to see what there is to complain about. The idea he should accomplish that while playing pretty football is too much for me personally. 

lancashire lad

Chunes said:

We were in a historic slump and Jones took us on a near-historic unbeaten run. I struggle to see what there is to complain about. The idea he should accomplish that while playing pretty football is too much for me personally. 

you mean similar to the run that Appleton had ??????

ForeverAddickted

Callumcafc said:

Portsmouth finished last season DWDDDDWDD

Some of their fans wanted Mousinho out, saying he was a failed experiment and hadn’t improved them enough from what was being served up by the Cowleys.

Haven’t seen similar calls for Jones but I do think there’s too many people unhappy given the trouble we were in. And a lot of draws now doesn’t determine how next season will pan out.

I'd despair if we got calls for Jones to go... Even at any point next season, unless we're in dire trouble.

Can we not last a full season without changing Manager

A lot of shit embarrasses people on here these days, but the fact we've still to achieve that simple feat for the first time since 2019/20 truly is terrible - No wonder we're not going anywhere the right way fast, when we're unable to have stability in the most important role

MuttleyCAFC

I sort of view it this way. We are not losing and whilst we have played games where we have not been great, nor have the opposition in those. So if you are not losing with what you have, you probably don't need that high a percentage improvement to change draws to wins. So Jones has probably got to improve things by about 5% and we could well be top six and a bit higher for automatics. 

Getting a decent keeper in will have a massive positive impact but a few more goals through the team will make a big difference too. We have a goalscorer who year on year tops the divisional scoring charts already. I am looking at what Jones might need to do and whilst I wouldn't want to suggest what that is exactly, it comes down to whether it is likely he will and I am confident of that if he is backed. That is an if of course as it always has been with us recently. What we can see is that when we win, we are not running away with those games so more goals has to happen and that includes the midfield and defence.

Off_it

I love it when people on here present their own personal opinions as "facts". Really, I do. FACT.

ShootersHillGuru

Jones has worked a small miracle in turning, what at I consider at least is a very mediocre bunch of players from being relegation candidates to their true potential in mid table. I have every confidence that given the support he’ll definitely need to take the nucleus of this side onto promotion candidates then he’ll do it. Maybe not next season but within two. We’re a third tier club treading water and he’s exactly the type of manager we need. It’s up to the board now to step up.

Kap10

lancashire lad said:

let's look at the facts and not get carried away by happy clappy euphoria that we have avoided relegation:

1. Jones record is the same a Appleton's first games but Jones had the advantage of bringing in some new players
2. The style of football played by Jones is some of the worst seen at the Valley for many years, just hoof it up the field and hope for the best. (sight exaggeration )
3. The new owners have not invested any new money in new players

From the above what makes you optimists think we shall be in the hunt for promotion next season?

However whatever we all think the pre season will show whether Jones and the owners are serious about positive progress.

I'm hoping that Jones and the ownership are the real deal and we are pushing fir top two next season. Adkins came in half decent pedigree, fans liked him, had a good end if season was gone by December, Holden came in a questionable pedigree, fans liked him, had a good end of season, avoided relegation flirt, gone by end of January, so next season is by no means guaranteed to be a promotion push. We need investment by owners in players and Jones needs to prove he is the real deal not just someone with lots of enthusiasm and arms waving.

Grapevine49

Do some not understand the basic coaching premise of setting achievable targets? You set goals which people can achieve. 13 games undefeated is not an inconsiderable achievement by any team at any level. If you don’t recognise the nature of the changes seen in the team and certain players then it is largely your problem.

Where exactly did you expect this squad of players to finish the season? Just what targets were you setting in February?

Suffice to say Jones based on league position and the scale of January additions imposed a demarcation line of who would/ would not feature, working to a set playing style. The creative talent in the squad was viewed as inadequate defensively without the performance values to compensate

Based on the evidence the defensive talent in the building was not considerably better it is job done. Target achieved. Reference to any other statistics is irrelevant. I could just as easily argue based on Jones ppg we would be circa 7th, 8th or 9th. No two sets of circumstances are identical. Performances will vary and progress is rarely linear.

Some seem unable to understand League 1 football has always been attritional and all too often very direct. You may as well complain about the British weather. Stopping people playing is the default. Stevenage has taken it to an art form. In part Jones used the same default. How many opponents in those 13 games played well?

Many of the talents in the building do not naturally fit into this Jones modus operandi but we battled through often on the back of the inconsistency of the youth of Kanu’s tireless work rate, Anderson’s physicality & ability to disrupt and Small’s bringing balance to the side.

It is now a matter of personnel. The squad has remained unbalanced through the season. I am not sure many January recruits were used in the manner Scott anticipated. None of it means a thing going forward. 2024/ 2025 brings forth a different remit and a need for greater flexibility in playing style based on the team ethos established.

In terms of personnel too many assumptions are being made. To restructure the squad “again” will not be straightforward*, not because “everybody is useless” but because they will not naturally provide the options Jones will seek/ need going forward.

* We currently hold circa 61 contracts (8 out on loan). 38/40 expire in 2024 and 2025.

I have no time for any 8+8+8 plan. It is Corporate smoke & mirrors and a recipe for mediocrity offering zero traction in delivering performance. Do our players need special shirt tags, with “4 stars”, “1 star ” and L plate graphics?

I applaud the Academy but as Sandgaard found the club status/ infrastructure is unable to carry “the Roddy pipeline.” There is nothing wrong/ unique with the strategy. It is whether the club is strong enough to carry the changes. Right now, with 3 mediocre seasons, nothing to date suggests it is.

22 Outfield players & 3 goalkeepers with 2 players competing to win each outfield shirt & 10% margin will do me.  I have no need of labels, nor overly care about the age, origin or pay cheque. You just need to be fit/ good enough to compete to win.

A player unable to consistently do so can have no expectation of being in the building. No sub divisions just one senior clubhouse, one squad and one team. Will there be pay differentials? Always, but each player has to be in position to compete for and win the shirt.

Promotion squads have precious little space for injury profiles, one season wonders, 2nd season syndrome sufferers or those learning on the job. I do not automatically preclude such talent but every punt in such areas diminishes the options for the Manager and puts at risk the business plan.

Dazzler21

lancashire lad said:

Chunes said:

We were in a historic slump and Jones took us on a near-historic unbeaten run. I struggle to see what there is to complain about. The idea he should accomplish that while playing pretty football is too much for me personally. 

you mean similar to the run that Appleton had ??????

It's not similar other than points gained. 

In terms of results we've stopped losing. We have the same shit players so the unbeaten run is even more inspiring of what this manager can do with some backing. 

Off_it

Dazzler21 said:

lancashire lad said:

Chunes said:

We were in a historic slump and Jones took us on a near-historic unbeaten run. I struggle to see what there is to complain about. The idea he should accomplish that while playing pretty football is too much for me personally. 

you mean similar to the run that Appleton had ??????

It's not similar other than points gained. 

In terms of results we've stopped losing. We have the same shit players so the unbeaten run is even more inspiring of what this manager can do with some backing. 

And, don't forget, this unbeaten run has come off the back of a winless run stretching back to the previous millennium (or at least it felt like it!) 

tangoflash

Nothing wrong with dirty draws.

Chunes

lancashire lad said:

Chunes said:

We were in a historic slump and Jones took us on a near-historic unbeaten run. I struggle to see what there is to complain about. The idea he should accomplish that while playing pretty football is too much for me personally. 

you mean similar to the run that Appleton had ??????

Is it similar? Appleton went 7 undefeated (and one of those was against an U23's team). Jones has done 13, almost double

Stig

There's an old saying that you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Well, Jones has taken a sow's ear and in no time tuned it into a functional item. It ain't pretty and it ain't made of silk but it just about does a job without leaking. Just hoping that next season he'll be working with rather nicer base materials. 

ShootersHillGuru

I prefer “ you can’t polish a turd” but Jones has certainly rolled it in glitter

paulsturgess

15 feels like a bit of a pathetic all time record unbeaten run, particularly when you consider it Vs our club record and at the time league record run of consecutive WINS was 13!! 

carly burn

lancashire lad said:

Chunes said:

We were in a historic slump and Jones took us on a near-historic unbeaten run. I struggle to see what there is to complain about. The idea he should accomplish that while playing pretty football is too much for me personally. 

you mean similar to the run that Appleton had ??????

  What are you on about?
Appleton lost lots of games. Jones has lost one, and that was the week he came in.

Go and have a lie down.

Covered End

lancashire lad said:

Chunes said:

We were in a historic slump and Jones took us on a near-historic unbeaten run. I struggle to see what there is to complain about. The idea he should accomplish that while playing pretty football is too much for me personally. 

you mean similar to the run that Appleton had ??????

Err no.
Appleton may well have got us relegated.
Jones has us unbeaten and producing results that would have us in play off contention.

Garrymanilow

It's odd how quickly people forget that this was a team that had started conceding late goals like clockwork so that they could drop points. Just couldn't win a match. Even being 2 goals up wasn't enough as we showed against Cambridge in December. 12 games without a win including matches against some of the worst teams in the league, 7 of those losses. 8 goals scored in the last ten minutes against us in that run. 

Jones taking that bunch of players who looked like they didn't have a prayer of seeing out a game or getting a win and after one game making them unbeatable up to the point of safety is genuinely incredible. We've ground out four key wins in that time. Two of them against relegation rivals and two of them against teams looking to play in the Championship next season. There's still lapses where we revert to type, especially when we're asked to control a game and see it out but these players were shellshocked and now we get to start again in the summer. 

If we're still drawing too many games next season then sure, that's more of a problem, but right now the narrative being about one of the longest unbeaten runs in the country instead of 'will Charlton be relegated to the 4th tier for the first time in their history?' is perfectly fine by me

AddicksAddict

golfaddick said:

Callumcafc said:

golfaddick said:

se9addick said:

A draw is closer to a loss than a win in terms of points. 

THIS. 👏👏👏👏👏

How many points have Man City & Pompey got on their unbeaten runs compared to ours ?

Yes, Nathan Jones is a saint & out saviour. Yes, in years to.come the West Stand will be named after him. But currently most of the "unbeaten run" have been draws....and a few have been where we have been leading & have then been pegged back. 

So lets not get all high & mighty just because we've not lost in 13. The more important aspect is how many we've not won. 

I would be the first to applaud if the 13 unbeaten were actually 13 straight wins, like in 99/00. 

Now THERE'S something to applaud !

If it was thirteen one nil wins you’d be the first to say we didn’t score enough.

It’s funny that the defeat that stopped the 13 win streak was a 1-0 defeat. So, once again, the lack of goals scored by us was the determining factor. 

Oppo didn’t even have a shot on target. 

swordfish

.

Stig

Here's our record across the season as led by five different managers (including caretakers). We might not be playing the most exciting football, but there's no doubt that the 1½ points per game that we are averaging under Jones is far better than the 1.09 we were managing under Appleton. He's done a good job of steadying a very rickety ship.

masicat

RaplhMilne said:

I’m really sorry I just can not get excited about it. If when Jones joined you said to everyone when Jones joined we would go 13 games unbeaten, with 2 games to go, I and sure most would have thought…… crikey we made the playoffs.

We haven’t even made mid table……. This massive undefeated run has moved us up 4 or 5 places…. 

FFS

EveshamAddick

Kap10 said:

lancashire lad said:

let's look at the facts and not get carried away by happy clappy euphoria that we have avoided relegation:

1. Jones record is the same a Appleton's first games but Jones had the advantage of bringing in some new players
2. The style of football played by Jones is some of the worst seen at the Valley for many years, just hoof it up the field and hope for the best. (sight exaggeration )
3. The new owners have not invested any new money in new players

From the above what makes you optimists think we shall be in the hunt for promotion next season?

However whatever we all think the pre season will show whether Jones and the owners are serious about positive progress.

I'm hoping that Jones and the ownership are the real deal and we are pushing fir top two next season. Adkins came in half decent pedigree, fans liked him, had a good end if season was gone by December, Holden came in a questionable pedigree, fans liked him, had a good end of season, avoided relegation flirt, gone by end of January, so next season is by no means guaranteed to be a promotion push. We need investment by owners in players and Jones needs to prove he is the real deal not just someone with lots of enthusiasm and arms waving.

Holden was gone by October wasn’t he?

Croydon

killerandflash said:

Relief is the right word, but an unbeaten run containing lots of draws is nothing to get over excited about. This is our run

DDDWDWWDDDWDD - 4 wins, 9 draws, 21 points

This is Appleton's run for his first 13 games

DWDWDWLLWDDWD - 5 wins, 5 draws, 2 losses, 20 points

So much the same, indeed if you include the Reading defeat in Jones' first game in charge, both managers have the same points total for their first 14 games.

That's a mad stat tbf. Doesn't tell the whole picture obviously, but I remember people telling us to be happy with the Appleton unbeaten run at the time.

Huge rebuild needed this summer. Give Jones the players he needs and we'll challenge next season, I have no doubt. Appleton would have taken us down.

Stig

EveshamAddick said:

Kap10 said:

lancashire lad said:

let's look at the facts and not get carried away by happy clappy euphoria that we have avoided relegation:

1. Jones record is the same a Appleton's first games but Jones had the advantage of bringing in some new players
2. The style of football played by Jones is some of the worst seen at the Valley for many years, just hoof it up the field and hope for the best. (sight exaggeration )
3. The new owners have not invested any new money in new players

From the above what makes you optimists think we shall be in the hunt for promotion next season?

However whatever we all think the pre season will show whether Jones and the owners are serious about positive progress.

I'm hoping that Jones and the ownership are the real deal and we are pushing fir top two next season. Adkins came in half decent pedigree, fans liked him, had a good end if season was gone by December, Holden came in a questionable pedigree, fans liked him, had a good end of season, avoided relegation flirt, gone by end of January, so next season is by no means guaranteed to be a promotion push. We need investment by owners in players and Jones needs to prove he is the real deal not just someone with lots of enthusiasm and arms waving.

Holden was gone by October wasn’t he?

August 

Callumcafc

Croydon said:

killerandflash said:

Relief is the right word, but an unbeaten run containing lots of draws is nothing to get over excited about. This is our run

DDDWDWWDDDWDD - 4 wins, 9 draws, 21 points

This is Appleton's run for his first 13 games

DWDWDWLLWDDWD - 5 wins, 5 draws, 2 losses, 20 points

So much the same, indeed if you include the Reading defeat in Jones' first game in charge, both managers have the same points total for their first 14 games.

That's a mad stat tbf. Doesn't tell the whole picture obviously, but I remember people telling us to be happy with the Appleton unbeaten run at the time.

Huge rebuild needed this summer. Give Jones the players he needs and we'll challenge next season, I have no doubt. Appleton would have taken us down.

It’s easily forgotten that Appleton had a fairly decent start. Seven unbeaten, late comebacks against Stevenage and Blackpool, etc.

It was after the Gillingham FA Cup game where everything went properly down the toilet. Appleton never really recovered from that point.

RaplhMilne

Can I just say I love the fact that this stream, is really an open discussion, without descending into an argumentative  / knob head abusive stream.

We all want Nathan in charge next season, we just slightly disagree on what he has actually achieved so far,

But, we are all happy, just some happier than others.

jimmymelrose

ForeverAddickted said:

Callumcafc said:

Portsmouth finished last season DWDDDDWDD

Some of their fans wanted Mousinho out, saying he was a failed experiment and hadn’t improved them enough from what was being served up by the Cowleys.

Haven’t seen similar calls for Jones but I do think there’s too many people unhappy given the trouble we were in. And a lot of draws now doesn’t determine how next season will pan out.

I'd despair if we got calls for Jones to go... Even at any point next season, unless we're in dire trouble.

Can we not last a full season without changing Manager

A lot of shit embarrasses people on here these days, but the fact we've still to achieve that simple feat for the first time since 2019/20 truly is terrible - No wonder we're not going anywhere the right way fast, when we're unable to have stability in the most important role

Agree. I’m past caring about anything else be it results, style of play because it’s all short term.

I just want to keep the same manager so much that I couldn’t care particularly who it was. As far as NJ is concerned I’m not creaming myself over him like many people on this desperation forum but if fans like him then all the better because maybe’ just maybe, we may have the simple common sense to just stick with the same guy for a while.

 The only statistic that counts is the one that no-one ever bothers to compile and that is ’loyalty to manager v success.’ I’m sure it would show that a sacking culture doesn’t work. You don’t even have to look beyond ourselves to see it.

killerandflash

ShootersHillGuru said:

Jones has worked a small miracle in turning, what at I consider at least is a very mediocre bunch of players from being relegation candidates to their true potential in mid table. I have every confidence that given the support he’ll definitely need to take the nucleus of this side onto promotion candidates then he’ll do it. Maybe not next season but within two. We’re a third tier club treading water and he’s exactly the type of manager we need. It’s up to the board now to step up.

Small miracle is overstating it. He's done a good job, but I doubt fans of Fleetwood, Port Vale, Cheltenham etc are shocked that we dragged ourselves to safety. It's not like the transformation at Lincoln from strugglers to playoff contenders. 

I was happy Appleton was sacked as clearly it wasn't working by the end, but it's also worth noting that we have a better team than the one Appleton had. Ramsay, Small and Wickham (plus Lualua) have all arrived since he was sacked, and Chuks has (partially) returned from injury.

lancashire lad

carly burn said:

lancashire lad said:

Chunes said:

We were in a historic slump and Jones took us on a near-historic unbeaten run. I struggle to see what there is to complain about. The idea he should accomplish that while playing pretty football is too much for me personally. 

you mean similar to the run that Appleton had ??????

  What are you on about?
Appleton lost lots of games. Jones has lost one, and that was the week he came in.

Go and have a lie down.

if you bothered to read an earlier comment it showed that Appleton and Jones both had similar success in their initial games - that is to what I was refering

from KillerandFlash's comment

Jones: DDDWDWWDDDWDD - 4 wins, 9 draws, 21 points

This is Appleton's run for his first 13 games

DWDWDWLLWDDWD - 5 wins, 5 draws, 2 losses, 20 points