Joey Barton loses in court
Comments
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Braziliance said:Garrymanilow said:Braziliance said:stoneroses19 said:Braziliance said:thenewbie said:Braziliance said:I don't think it's anything to celebrate tbh, I don't like a lot of the stuff Joey Barton says, but, Jeremy Vine purposely looks to antagonise members of the public/drivers for Internet clout. It's two insufferable people in a face-off, and neither should be celebrated or rooted for in my eyes.
I also think it's quite dangerous territory that something as petty as calling someone a 'bike nonce' or whatever other weird comment he has made towards him, which literally doesn't make any sense, has warranted a fine of 75 thousand pounds. I have seen people suffer far less for way worse.
More importantly Barton's defence was more or less "it's just banter" (except wrapped up in suitably legalese terminology) and it was quite rightly slapped down as nonsense, which is a precedent that needed setting.
I'm no fan of Vine at all but you don't get to do what Barton did just because the other person is a dickhead, that's not how it works.
I also truthfully couldn't care for what's ruled in courts, there have been plenty of occasions where courts have been completely wrong, and not served true justice imo, speaking as a victim and witness. I don't take what is ruled in court as gospel or a correct decision for every outcome, that would be naive of me.
It's an absurd amount of money and opens up for people like Vine, to antagonise the general public knowing they have full protection of any counter measures, even childish insults.
We are seeing a growing trend of people using platforms like tiktok, YouTube and Instagram to do antagonising or attention seeking acts on members of the public for online trend, court rulings like this just encourage those types more imo with that level of protection. That's my concern.It's a lot more harmful than "they're just words" and "playground remarks".
A serious accusation is someone saying something along the lines of they've seen me doing x activity and providing that information to the law or in the eyes of the public. Someone coming on my YouTube video and typing something like 'football vlog nonce' would just be ridiculous and nonsense.
It's kind of besides my original point now anyway and going off track, which is that IF people who go around sticking cameras in people's faces and creating a rod can decide how offending a comment is, it gives them serious power to do what they want on a camera (to an extent) to members of the public with 0 repercussions.
Complicated subject, but my belief is it doesn't warrant a 75k fine, and could lead down a very tricky path.
Defamation law requires that a person be defamed in a manner which causes them loss in their trade or profession, or damages their reputation. Barton calling Vine a 'raving bacon' and saying 'if you see this fella by a primary school call 999' as well as asking 'Did you, Rolf-aroo and Schofield go out on a tandem bike ride?' is a serious accusation. He wrote 'Elvis was a Nonce As well' and 'Have you been on Epstein Island? Are you going to be on these flight logs? Might as well own up now because I’d phone the police if I saw you near a primary school on ya bike.' There's lots more, all in all Barton wrote 14 defamatory tweets all based on some pretty horrific untrue claims that any reasonable person would see as defamatory. He linked Vine to Jimmy Savile and Jeffrey Epstein for God's sake. The tweets got increasingly libellous and had the serious possibility of massively reducing Vine's reputation and with it his viewership and therefore his job prospects if he didn't challenge those posts. Barton has 2.8m Twitter followers, do you seriously think that if Vine stayed quiet and just rolled his eyes there wouldn't be plenty of people who would accept the unchallenged view put forward by Barton? Of course they would.
Also, I don't think we need to worry about a very tricky path. Defamation law has been a thing since the 1200s, Barton getting done for being openly libellous and suffering the consequences isn't going to cause even a ripple in the wider framework of the law, just look at Colleen Rooney and Rebekah Vardy for an example about just how difficult it is to win a case where you can't prove proper damages or truth as a total defence. The only wider discussion to come from this really is the fact it's been reported so widely as just a case where Barton called Vine 'bike nonce' rather than the horrendous accusations he made about him being more thoroughly reported on.
Quite ironic anyway, as most people on here clearly think Barton is a moron, a lot of people on social media do, and know most of what he says probably isn't true, yet his words seems to carry so much weight and significance that Vine had no choice but to take it to court, and now people are celebrating his court loss?
Anyway, I'll take a step back from this thread, I am spending too much of my time talking about two blokes I don't care about, and what my original view was, has been completely lost. Which was can this be heavily exploited in this day and age depending on someones financial situation/social media clout. Especially with the access to engage among celebrities. Anyway, there's no outcome here where my opinion on this can change, and vice versa, so it's not a good use of time.
No more replies from me on this topic, without sounding arrogant, enjoy your day all
Edit: & just to be clear, I genuinely understand the majority of every quoted post at me, I just have a different train of thought is all and don't want to bicker about it all.1 -
killerandflash said:What I don't understand is WHY Barton has gone after Vine like this. It's not as if their paths have crossed much in their careers.0
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Braziliance said:Garrymanilow said:Braziliance said:stoneroses19 said:Braziliance said:thenewbie said:Braziliance said:I don't think it's anything to celebrate tbh, I don't like a lot of the stuff Joey Barton says, but, Jeremy Vine purposely looks to antagonise members of the public/drivers for Internet clout. It's two insufferable people in a face-off, and neither should be celebrated or rooted for in my eyes.
I also think it's quite dangerous territory that something as petty as calling someone a 'bike nonce' or whatever other weird comment he has made towards him, which literally doesn't make any sense, has warranted a fine of 75 thousand pounds. I have seen people suffer far less for way worse.
More importantly Barton's defence was more or less "it's just banter" (except wrapped up in suitably legalese terminology) and it was quite rightly slapped down as nonsense, which is a precedent that needed setting.
I'm no fan of Vine at all but you don't get to do what Barton did just because the other person is a dickhead, that's not how it works.
I also truthfully couldn't care for what's ruled in courts, there have been plenty of occasions where courts have been completely wrong, and not served true justice imo, speaking as a victim and witness. I don't take what is ruled in court as gospel or a correct decision for every outcome, that would be naive of me.
It's an absurd amount of money and opens up for people like Vine, to antagonise the general public knowing they have full protection of any counter measures, even childish insults.
We are seeing a growing trend of people using platforms like tiktok, YouTube and Instagram to do antagonising or attention seeking acts on members of the public for online trend, court rulings like this just encourage those types more imo with that level of protection. That's my concern.It's a lot more harmful than "they're just words" and "playground remarks".
A serious accusation is someone saying something along the lines of they've seen me doing x activity and providing that information to the law or in the eyes of the public. Someone coming on my YouTube video and typing something like 'football vlog nonce' would just be ridiculous and nonsense.
It's kind of besides my original point now anyway and going off track, which is that IF people who go around sticking cameras in people's faces and creating a rod can decide how offending a comment is, it gives them serious power to do what they want on a camera (to an extent) to members of the public with 0 repercussions.
Complicated subject, but my belief is it doesn't warrant a 75k fine, and could lead down a very tricky path.
Defamation law requires that a person be defamed in a manner which causes them loss in their trade or profession, or damages their reputation. Barton calling Vine a 'raving bacon' and saying 'if you see this fella by a primary school call 999' as well as asking 'Did you, Rolf-aroo and Schofield go out on a tandem bike ride?' is a serious accusation. He wrote 'Elvis was a Nonce As well' and 'Have you been on Epstein Island? Are you going to be on these flight logs? Might as well own up now because I’d phone the police if I saw you near a primary school on ya bike.' There's lots more, all in all Barton wrote 14 defamatory tweets all based on some pretty horrific untrue claims that any reasonable person would see as defamatory. He linked Vine to Jimmy Savile and Jeffrey Epstein for God's sake. The tweets got increasingly libellous and had the serious possibility of massively reducing Vine's reputation and with it his viewership and therefore his job prospects if he didn't challenge those posts. Barton has 2.8m Twitter followers, do you seriously think that if Vine stayed quiet and just rolled his eyes there wouldn't be plenty of people who would accept the unchallenged view put forward by Barton? Of course they would.
Also, I don't think we need to worry about a very tricky path. Defamation law has been a thing since the 1200s, Barton getting done for being openly libellous and suffering the consequences isn't going to cause even a ripple in the wider framework of the law, just look at Colleen Rooney and Rebekah Vardy for an example about just how difficult it is to win a case where you can't prove proper damages or truth as a total defence. The only wider discussion to come from this really is the fact it's been reported so widely as just a case where Barton called Vine 'bike nonce' rather than the horrendous accusations he made about him being more thoroughly reported on.
Quite ironic anyway, as most people on here clearly think Barton is a moron, a lot of people on social media do, and know most of what he says probably isn't true, yet his words seems to carry so much weight and significance that Vine had no choice but to take it to court, and now people are celebrating his court loss?
Anyway, I'll take a step back from this thread, I am spending too much of my time talking about two blokes I don't care about, and what my original view was, has been completely lost. Which was can this be heavily exploited in this day and age depending on someones financial situation/social media clout. Especially with the access to engage among celebrities. Anyway, there's no outcome here where my opinion on this can change, and vice versa, so it's not a good use of time.
No more replies from me on this topic, without sounding arrogant, enjoy your day all
Edit: & just to be clear, I genuinely understand the majority of every quoted post at me, I just have a different train of thought is all and don't want to bicker about it all.
It's true that defamation law can be exploited, but this has been the case for decades; wealthy businessmen, newspapers and celebrities will regularly use the fact they can bleed someone dry with a drawn-out court case to silence people who point out bad things they have done knowing that they don't have the money to do anything other than acquiesce and publicly apologise. It's not anything new that's been brought on by the Barton case so I don't think this is exactly the one to take a hand-wringing stance on when in fact it's a cut and dried case of Barton libelling someone. I'm troubled that you feel your opinion can't be changed because the issue here is clearly that your knowledge of the law isn't really sufficient for you to really engage with why it's so important that Vine intervene here and why this is actually a perfectly good example of using defamation law for its intended purpose and absolutely nothing new in the world of libel. There's no slippery slope here, it's a bloke with a large following making specific, clear statements that are factually untrue about another person and causing him loss. There's just really nothing there that's 'dangerous territory', I think you just don't like Jeremy Vine very much. That's fine, you don't have to, but he still falls under the protections of tort law I'm afraid.9 -
He could have just called vine a bike bellend and saved himself 75k.5
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man_at_milletts said:I have to wonder how he is in employment.2
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Braziliance said:Garrymanilow said:Braziliance said:stoneroses19 said:Braziliance said:thenewbie said:Braziliance said:I don't think it's anything to celebrate tbh, I don't like a lot of the stuff Joey Barton says, but, Jeremy Vine purposely looks to antagonise members of the public/drivers for Internet clout. It's two insufferable people in a face-off, and neither should be celebrated or rooted for in my eyes.
I also think it's quite dangerous territory that something as petty as calling someone a 'bike nonce' or whatever other weird comment he has made towards him, which literally doesn't make any sense, has warranted a fine of 75 thousand pounds. I have seen people suffer far less for way worse.
More importantly Barton's defence was more or less "it's just banter" (except wrapped up in suitably legalese terminology) and it was quite rightly slapped down as nonsense, which is a precedent that needed setting.
I'm no fan of Vine at all but you don't get to do what Barton did just because the other person is a dickhead, that's not how it works.
I also truthfully couldn't care for what's ruled in courts, there have been plenty of occasions where courts have been completely wrong, and not served true justice imo, speaking as a victim and witness. I don't take what is ruled in court as gospel or a correct decision for every outcome, that would be naive of me.
It's an absurd amount of money and opens up for people like Vine, to antagonise the general public knowing they have full protection of any counter measures, even childish insults.
We are seeing a growing trend of people using platforms like tiktok, YouTube and Instagram to do antagonising or attention seeking acts on members of the public for online trend, court rulings like this just encourage those types more imo with that level of protection. That's my concern.It's a lot more harmful than "they're just words" and "playground remarks".
A serious accusation is someone saying something along the lines of they've seen me doing x activity and providing that information to the law or in the eyes of the public. Someone coming on my YouTube video and typing something like 'football vlog nonce' would just be ridiculous and nonsense.
It's kind of besides my original point now anyway and going off track, which is that IF people who go around sticking cameras in people's faces and creating a rod can decide how offending a comment is, it gives them serious power to do what they want on a camera (to an extent) to members of the public with 0 repercussions.
Complicated subject, but my belief is it doesn't warrant a 75k fine, and could lead down a very tricky path.
Defamation law requires that a person be defamed in a manner which causes them loss in their trade or profession, or damages their reputation. Barton calling Vine a 'raving bacon' and saying 'if you see this fella by a primary school call 999' as well as asking 'Did you, Rolf-aroo and Schofield go out on a tandem bike ride?' is a serious accusation. He wrote 'Elvis was a Nonce As well' and 'Have you been on Epstein Island? Are you going to be on these flight logs? Might as well own up now because I’d phone the police if I saw you near a primary school on ya bike.' There's lots more, all in all Barton wrote 14 defamatory tweets all based on some pretty horrific untrue claims that any reasonable person would see as defamatory. He linked Vine to Jimmy Savile and Jeffrey Epstein for God's sake. The tweets got increasingly libellous and had the serious possibility of massively reducing Vine's reputation and with it his viewership and therefore his job prospects if he didn't challenge those posts. Barton has 2.8m Twitter followers, do you seriously think that if Vine stayed quiet and just rolled his eyes there wouldn't be plenty of people who would accept the unchallenged view put forward by Barton? Of course they would.
Also, I don't think we need to worry about a very tricky path. Defamation law has been a thing since the 1200s, Barton getting done for being openly libellous and suffering the consequences isn't going to cause even a ripple in the wider framework of the law, just look at Colleen Rooney and Rebekah Vardy for an example about just how difficult it is to win a case where you can't prove proper damages or truth as a total defence. The only wider discussion to come from this really is the fact it's been reported so widely as just a case where Barton called Vine 'bike nonce' rather than the horrendous accusations he made about him being more thoroughly reported on.
Quite ironic anyway, as most people on here clearly think Barton is a moron, a lot of people on social media do, and know most of what he says probably isn't true, yet his words seems to carry so much weight and significance that Vine had no choice but to take it to court, and now people are celebrating his court loss?
Anyway, I'll take a step back from this thread, I am spending too much of my time talking about two blokes I don't care about, and what my original view was, has been completely lost. Which was can this be heavily exploited in this day and age depending on someones financial situation/social media clout. Especially with the access to engage among celebrities. Anyway, there's no outcome here where my opinion on this can change, and vice versa, so it's not a good use of time.
No more replies from me on this topic, without sounding arrogant, enjoy your day all
Edit: & just to be clear, I genuinely understand the majority of every quoted post at me, I just have a different train of thought is all and don't want to bicker about it all.0 -
Stu_of_Kunming said:Braziliance said:Garrymanilow said:Braziliance said:stoneroses19 said:Braziliance said:thenewbie said:Braziliance said:I don't think it's anything to celebrate tbh, I don't like a lot of the stuff Joey Barton says, but, Jeremy Vine purposely looks to antagonise members of the public/drivers for Internet clout. It's two insufferable people in a face-off, and neither should be celebrated or rooted for in my eyes.
I also think it's quite dangerous territory that something as petty as calling someone a 'bike nonce' or whatever other weird comment he has made towards him, which literally doesn't make any sense, has warranted a fine of 75 thousand pounds. I have seen people suffer far less for way worse.
More importantly Barton's defence was more or less "it's just banter" (except wrapped up in suitably legalese terminology) and it was quite rightly slapped down as nonsense, which is a precedent that needed setting.
I'm no fan of Vine at all but you don't get to do what Barton did just because the other person is a dickhead, that's not how it works.
I also truthfully couldn't care for what's ruled in courts, there have been plenty of occasions where courts have been completely wrong, and not served true justice imo, speaking as a victim and witness. I don't take what is ruled in court as gospel or a correct decision for every outcome, that would be naive of me.
It's an absurd amount of money and opens up for people like Vine, to antagonise the general public knowing they have full protection of any counter measures, even childish insults.
We are seeing a growing trend of people using platforms like tiktok, YouTube and Instagram to do antagonising or attention seeking acts on members of the public for online trend, court rulings like this just encourage those types more imo with that level of protection. That's my concern.It's a lot more harmful than "they're just words" and "playground remarks".
A serious accusation is someone saying something along the lines of they've seen me doing x activity and providing that information to the law or in the eyes of the public. Someone coming on my YouTube video and typing something like 'football vlog nonce' would just be ridiculous and nonsense.
It's kind of besides my original point now anyway and going off track, which is that IF people who go around sticking cameras in people's faces and creating a rod can decide how offending a comment is, it gives them serious power to do what they want on a camera (to an extent) to members of the public with 0 repercussions.
Complicated subject, but my belief is it doesn't warrant a 75k fine, and could lead down a very tricky path.
Defamation law requires that a person be defamed in a manner which causes them loss in their trade or profession, or damages their reputation. Barton calling Vine a 'raving bacon' and saying 'if you see this fella by a primary school call 999' as well as asking 'Did you, Rolf-aroo and Schofield go out on a tandem bike ride?' is a serious accusation. He wrote 'Elvis was a Nonce As well' and 'Have you been on Epstein Island? Are you going to be on these flight logs? Might as well own up now because I’d phone the police if I saw you near a primary school on ya bike.' There's lots more, all in all Barton wrote 14 defamatory tweets all based on some pretty horrific untrue claims that any reasonable person would see as defamatory. He linked Vine to Jimmy Savile and Jeffrey Epstein for God's sake. The tweets got increasingly libellous and had the serious possibility of massively reducing Vine's reputation and with it his viewership and therefore his job prospects if he didn't challenge those posts. Barton has 2.8m Twitter followers, do you seriously think that if Vine stayed quiet and just rolled his eyes there wouldn't be plenty of people who would accept the unchallenged view put forward by Barton? Of course they would.
Also, I don't think we need to worry about a very tricky path. Defamation law has been a thing since the 1200s, Barton getting done for being openly libellous and suffering the consequences isn't going to cause even a ripple in the wider framework of the law, just look at Colleen Rooney and Rebekah Vardy for an example about just how difficult it is to win a case where you can't prove proper damages or truth as a total defence. The only wider discussion to come from this really is the fact it's been reported so widely as just a case where Barton called Vine 'bike nonce' rather than the horrendous accusations he made about him being more thoroughly reported on.
Quite ironic anyway, as most people on here clearly think Barton is a moron, a lot of people on social media do, and know most of what he says probably isn't true, yet his words seems to carry so much weight and significance that Vine had no choice but to take it to court, and now people are celebrating his court loss?
Anyway, I'll take a step back from this thread, I am spending too much of my time talking about two blokes I don't care about, and what my original view was, has been completely lost. Which was can this be heavily exploited in this day and age depending on someones financial situation/social media clout. Especially with the access to engage among celebrities. Anyway, there's no outcome here where my opinion on this can change, and vice versa, so it's not a good use of time.
No more replies from me on this topic, without sounding arrogant, enjoy your day all
Edit: & just to be clear, I genuinely understand the majority of every quoted post at me, I just have a different train of thought is all and don't want to bicker about it all.
If I say Brazillance is a palace fan in the pub to two people then not much damage to his reputation.
If i say it to 20k+ people on Charlton Life it might impact on his reputation and his vlogs.
But I have a defence in law ie it is true0 -
I can't understand why anyone would be quite content to be called a paedophile to the rest of the world. I don't think they would if it actually happened.7
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Covered End said:I can't understand why anyone would be quite content to be called a paedophile to the rest of the world. I don't think they would if it actually happened.2
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Joey Barton to pay an extra £35,000 to Jeremy Vine
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Covered End said:I can't understand why anyone would be quite content to be called a paedophile to the rest of the world. I don't think they would if it actually happened.5
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Barton behaviour is pretty disgraceful. It would be good if this settlement and the grovelling apology discouraged other keyboard warriors from making libellous statements on social media but I fear that most of them are too thick to appreciate that the burden of proof falls squarely upon them to establish any spurious allegations and that they usually have not a scintilla of evidence to do so. Others are happy to push their luck because they know that most people have neither the inclination or financial resources to pursue legal action.
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Algarveaddick said:Carter said:Jeremy Vine is essentially the same animal that Joey Barton is. Both chucking red meat out to a known audience and if anything Vine is worse for the idiotic videos he posts when he is cycling and the faux outrage and disingenuous ways he broadcasts. At least with Barton you know what you are getting and he is a lot more.... clumsy isn't the right word but let's say raw. He clearly doesn't have much of a brain or a filter like Vine does but they essentially do the same thing.
Don't see it myself.
For what its worth I dont like either of them personally. Vine for the reasons I've given and Barton because I just don't like him constantly playing the victim when the problems he has got himself into are entirely his own doing.0 -
Chizz said:3
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Carter said:Algarveaddick said:Carter said:Jeremy Vine is essentially the same animal that Joey Barton is. Both chucking red meat out to a known audience and if anything Vine is worse for the idiotic videos he posts when he is cycling and the faux outrage and disingenuous ways he broadcasts. At least with Barton you know what you are getting and he is a lot more.... clumsy isn't the right word but let's say raw. He clearly doesn't have much of a brain or a filter like Vine does but they essentially do the same thing.
Don't see it myself.
For what its worth I dont like either of them personally. Vine for the reasons I've given and Barton because I just don't like him constantly playing the victim when the problems he has got himself into are entirely his own doing.2 -
Ex-footballer Joey Barton has been charged with making malicious communications.
The former Manchester City and Burnley player is due to appear in court on July 30.
On his X account, Mr Barton, 41, said he had been charged over tweets relating to broadcaster Eni Aluko.
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clive said:
Ex-footballer Joey Barton has been charged with making malicious communications.
The former Manchester City and Burnley player is due to appear in court on July 30.
On his X account, Mr Barton, 41, said he had been charged over tweets relating to broadcaster Eni Aluko.
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I hope the whole of the world takes turns in rinsing Barton in court. Not sure there are many more people deserving of going completely broke than that cretin.8
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clive said:
Ex-footballer Joey Barton has been charged with making malicious communications.
The former Manchester City and Burnley player is due to appear in court on July 30.
On his X account, Mr Barton, 41, said he had been charged over tweets relating to broadcaster Eni Aluko.
8 - Sponsored links:
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thenewbie said:clive said:
Ex-footballer Joey Barton has been charged with making malicious communications.
The former Manchester City and Burnley player is due to appear in court on July 30.
On his X account, Mr Barton, 41, said he had been charged over tweets relating to broadcaster Eni Aluko.
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What a disgraceful individual Barton is. He appears to be trying to promote himself in a similar way to that clown who calls himself Tommy Robinson.
I don’t think his response to the charges is likely to engage the sympathy of the court, nor assist any plea in mitigation in the event that he’s found guilty.5 -
Garrymanilow said:thenewbie said:clive said:
Ex-footballer Joey Barton has been charged with making malicious communications.
The former Manchester City and Burnley player is due to appear in court on July 30.
On his X account, Mr Barton, 41, said he had been charged over tweets relating to broadcaster Eni Aluko.
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Don’t forget he’s just been charged. Be very careful what you write.0
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Don’t go woke you go broke 😂2
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BR7_addick said:Don’t go woke you go broke 😂9
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Haha Barton is a proper cory sniffer.
Let’s hope when Aluko gets a settlement offer it’s someone else ‘doing the maths’3 -
Now tweeting about Steve Evans weight.
https://x.com/joey7barton/status/1814221425797956064?s=46&t=A-w3Eq0EWWpjMxring904Q
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Scoham said:Now tweeting about Steve Evans weight.
https://x.com/joey7barton/status/1814221425797956064?s=46&t=A-w3Eq0EWWpjMxring904Q2 -
Outrage bait.
Him and many others just want the clicks and headlines.
Katy Hopkins, Laurence Fox, Barton, Brand, Owen Jones et al, all grifters having to get ever more extreame to get the outrage they literally feed off.
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