Next England Manager - Thomas Tuchel

BR7_addick

Rob

Addick Addict said:

The more I hear from Tuchel and the FA's view, via Mark Bellingham, on his appointment, the more I believe that this is a stop gap from both sides. Tuchel is not a long term international manager (as he says "he's used to 18 months") and would prefer to be managing one of Europe's top sides - but who is going to give him that gig at the moment?  Bellingham also indicated that some of those that were interviewed for the job "wanted it more than others but that Tuchel wanted it the most". That suggests to me that, perhaps, the FA have one or two in mind who might be more committed at the end of next season e.g. Pep or Howe. 

Surely that depends on how well he does though right?

ValleyGary

I can’t believe people still take any notice of things like the Daily Mirror

Macronate

First thing I said to everyone when he was appointed was, "I wonder if he's had a tangled love-life."

BR7_addick

ValleyGary said:

I can’t believe people still take any notice of things like the Daily Mirror

I take as much notice as I do to the go-compare adverts.  But unfortunately the song is still stuck in millions of heads.

Bostonaddick

My main problem with Tuchel is that he is known for playing players out of position to fit whatever formation/system he employs.  At Chelsea he was playing forwards as wingbacks and Mount in a more deeper holding role.  Not sure we have the wingbacks to play his preferred 3421 formation

BR7_addick

The only decent argument I’ve seen for wanting the manager to be English has come from Gary Neville.  I don’t agree with it but it’s an opinion which has some logic and long term thinking to it.

Basically he wants it to be an Englishman to promote English coaching and management in general, as I think we can all agree it’s pretty poor when you look at an all English short list.

But for me that’s too long term, and frankly not practical.  I want to win something and win something soon, I think we’ve earned the right to be a little impatient with that.

Addick Addict

Rob said:

Addick Addict said:

The more I hear from Tuchel and the FA's view, via Mark Bellingham, on his appointment, the more I believe that this is a stop gap from both sides. Tuchel is not a long term international manager (as he says "he's used to 18 months") and would prefer to be managing one of Europe's top sides - but who is going to give him that gig at the moment?  Bellingham also indicated that some of those that were interviewed for the job "wanted it more than others but that Tuchel wanted it the most". That suggests to me that, perhaps, the FA have one or two in mind who might be more committed at the end of next season e.g. Pep or Howe. 

Surely that depends on how well he does though right? 

Of course it will from our side if he does do well but that might not be in his plans even if he does (if anything, winning the WC will make him worth even more to top clubs) and why it might suit us from the perspective too assuming that we have someone else in mind in 18 months. Capello's first contract was 4.5 years and Eriksson's was 5 years. So why only 18 months for Tuchel and why has he accepted such a short contract? There's no longevity in the relationship in doing so which is why I said that it probably suits both sides to have that relatively short term contract. That's not to say that if everything is going well at that point and Tuchel wants to stay on that won't happen but one or both sides want that door open at that time.    

fenaddick

BR7_addick said:

The only decent argument I’ve seen for wanting the manager to be English has come from Gary Neville.  I don’t agree with it but it’s an opinion which has some logic and long term thinking to it.

Basically he wants it to be an Englishman to promote English coaching and management in general, as I think we can all agree it’s pretty poor when you look at an all English short list.

But for me that’s too long term, and frankly not practical.  I want to win something and win something soon, I think we’ve earned the right to be a little impatient with that.

Problem with that argument is that it clearly doesn't work, we have almost always had an English coach and it hasn't made a difference to the quality produced below. 

RodneyCharltonTrotta

guinnessaddick said:

Asked the man with a German wife.

Which should underline the point he's not anti German or xenophobic in this statement.

People aren't saying no to German club managers but as usual the lazy narrative is it's xenophobic/ bigoted to think/ desire that a national manager should be of that nation for a football nation of the status of England.

Chizz

I am happy for him.  He's taking over from an Englishman who did his best, but wasn't up to it and had to step down.  But now, Tommy T has landed the big gig.  Good luck to him.  And good luck to his constituents in Tonbridge. 

Although I am not sure he's really qualified to be England Manager, especially as he's still Shadow Minister for Security. 

Lincsaddick

could well be good for England and Tuchel .. he seems to be a man who quickly falls out with those around him, the fact that he will only have the players for very limited amounts of time might allow him to be cooler and more constructive in his interpersonal dealings .. as for the players they will not have him to deal with on a day to day basis .. he is clearly a man who understands tactics and to get his ideas across .. (lastly) the fact that his initial contract is just for 18 months means that if he totally pisses everybody off and fails miserably, it won't cost umpteen €s to get rid of him

guinnessaddick

Lincsaddick said:

could well be good for England and Tuchel .. he seems to be a man who quickly falls out with those around him, the fact that he will only have the players for very limited amounts of time might allow him to be cooler and more constructive in his interpersonal dealings .. as for the players they will not have him to deal with on a day to day basis .. he is clearly a man who understands tactics and to get his ideas across .. (lastly) the fact that his initial contract is just for 18 months means that if he totally pisses everybody off and fails miserably, it won't cost umpteen €s to get rid of him

Wait till the mail find out he's being paid in euros.

soapy_jones

Don't care if he's Chinese, Japanese, dirty knees, what are these...

Just make me want to watch an England match for entertainment and not as an exercise with thumb screws, yelling "back to fucking Pickford" at the telly like a demented fool!

The Red Robin

fenaddick said:

anyone know if these prices are true? if they are then that’s mad! 

Clubs will generally fund it though. I’m UEFA C and my club refunded me and if I want to do my UEFA B I could probably persuade them. Tougher to get onto though. 

eaststandmike

Bostonaddick said:

My main problem with Tuchel is that he is known for playing players out of position to fit whatever formation/system he employs.  At Chelsea he was playing forwards as wingbacks and Mount in a more deeper holding role.  Not sure we have the wingbacks to play his preferred 3421 formation

Jones: “Hold my beer”

CAFCsayer

JustFloydRoad

CAFCDAZ said:

I think it's diabolical. Call me old fashioned but how can we genuinely feel happy about a GERMAN managing the national team? if Gareth Southgate was made Argentina manager, i reckon they'd riot. 

Gareth Southgate managing Messi (and getting him to track back). I would love to see that

soapboxsam

I have no problem with the German Thomas Tuchel✅  being England's manager But having an assistant Antony Barry from the breakaway city of Liverpool❌ is a low blow. 😁

cafctom

swordfish said:

Otto Rehaggel (German) won the Euros coaching Greece in 2004, so proving that there's nothing in a non national's DNA that prevents them from achieving success coaching another country's players. See more recently our own women's team success!

I don't suppose the celebrations in Greece were tempered by his nationality, nor the achievement undermined by it, yet I'm sure they are as proud and patriotic about their nation as we are of ours.

The example you have referenced there is the only single instance of a foreign manager winning a World Cup or Euros for their country, ever. 

cafctom

I don’t feel like a WC win would be cheapened by having a foreign manager at all. If we win it, then we win it.

But the idea of an Englishman who has lived through the decades of hurt like the rest of us and finally wins the big one is something that I’ve always romanticised in my head. The idea that every single English manager wants to be ‘the one’ to do it and immortalise themselves as a national hero. That particular element would be a little bit diminished (in amongst a wave of absolute euphoria, still)

Then again, the options aren’t quite there so we just have to accept it and get behind him. It’s a shocking indictment on English football when a powerhouse like ourselves cannot put together a legitimate list of English born candidates. 

Braziliance

https://x.com/WeAreTheOverlap/status/1846525428615246081?t=2tLZWMSvXp3WPZUk5GQjng&s=19

I make Neville and Carragher spot on. I disagree there's a credible England coach though, as Neville has said. The only one I'd even like the idea of is Howe (would have preferred him to Tuchel) but Carragher is right about the whole purpose of international football.

Quite shocked at how many silly comparisons have been made on social media, like what food people eat, what car they drive etc. Bloody ridiculous thought process and not even slightly relevant 😂

carly burn

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/3739345/2022/12/13/world-cup-foreign-coaches/

Pertinent piece in the Athletic from a couple of years ago on the whole foreign international coach debate.

Hal1x

RodneyCharltonTrotta said:

guinnessaddick said:

Asked the man with a German wife.

Which should underline the point he's not anti German or xenophobic in this statement.

People aren't saying no to German club managers but as usual the lazy narrative is it's xenophobic/ bigoted to think/ desire that a national manager should be of that nation for a football nation of the status of England.

So you are saying the normally xenophobic / bigoted Daily Mail, isn't actually being xenophobic or bigoted on this one occasion, when you would typically expect it to fill its big xenophobic bigoted boots, and that we should give them the benefit of the doubt. Well I have thought it over and, I say bull-plop!!, it's a horrible newspaper and always has a borderline racist little England agenda, (that directly lead to the chasm in the Royal Family), oh and all that Female claptrap! and piss-poor Charlton coverage now Patrick Collins has retired.

Carter

Hal1x said:

RodneyCharltonTrotta said:

guinnessaddick said:

Asked the man with a German wife.

Which should underline the point he's not anti German or xenophobic in this statement.

People aren't saying no to German club managers but as usual the lazy narrative is it's xenophobic/ bigoted to think/ desire that a national manager should be of that nation for a football nation of the status of England.

So you are saying the Daily Mail isn't xenophobic or bigoted on this one occasion, when its DNA make up is normally xenophobic and bigoted, and we should give it the benefit of a doubt. Well I have thought it over and, I say bullshit!, it's a horrible newspaper and always works to its own borderline racist little England agenda.

I think he's talking about the person who is the subject of the headline rathe than the maggots who write the headline 

RodneyCharltonTrotta

Hal1x said:

RodneyCharltonTrotta said:

guinnessaddick said:

Asked the man with a German wife.

Which should underline the point he's not anti German or xenophobic in this statement.

People aren't saying no to German club managers but as usual the lazy narrative is it's xenophobic/ bigoted to think/ desire that a national manager should be of that nation for a football nation of the status of England.

So you are saying the Daily Mail isn't xenophobic or bigoted on this one occasion, when its DNA make up is normally xenophobic and bigoted, and we should give them the benefit of a doubt. Well I have thought it over and, I say bullshit!, it's a horrible newspaper and seemingly always works to its own borderline racist little England agenda (oh that and all the Female claptrap!).

No I'm not saying that at all. 

I haven't mentioned the Daily Mail.

KBslittlesis

Hold on.
Are we seriously saying the price of coaching badges are holding back English coaches.?
Realistically, the only coaches likely to get anywhere near coaching in the England set up are ex footballers now aren’t they? Ex footballers who have been paid a ridiculous amount of money from the mid 90’s onwards?
Do me a favour.

We don’t have decent English coaches/managers because no one gets the time anymore. Didn’t Potter start & build up abroad before he came back to the UK?

We are our own worst enemies imho.

DA9

RodneyCharltonTrotta said:

guinnessaddick said:

Asked the man with a German wife.

Which should underline the point he's not anti German or xenophobic in this statement.

People aren't saying no to German club managers but as usual the lazy narrative is it's xenophobic/ bigoted to think/ desire that a national manager should be of that nation for a football nation of the status of England.

My other half who is very much on the left said the same thing to me when I said I'm not happy about his appointment "xenophobic", I disagreed purely on the basis that I don't want anyone Scottish/German/Argentinian managing an England team, any other nationality, don't care.
Those nations are our fiercest footballing rivals for different reasons, that's it, no other reason

RodneyCharltonTrotta

It's also cheating a bit in my view. Just getting the best coach/ manager regardless of their nationality. Not what international competition is about in my view but perhaps in this global world international competition is on borrowed time and diluting it with non national managers is just a symptom.

Chris_from_Sidcup

RodneyCharltonTrotta said:

It's also cheating a bit in my view. Just getting the best coach/ manager regardless of their nationality. Not what international competition is about in my view but perhaps in this global world international competition is on borrowed time and diluting it with non national managers is just a symptom.

Well it's definitely not cheating because any other top level nation could do the same. 

But out of interest seeing as you've been pretty clear on this thread that the manager should be English, which manager who was available would you have given the job to?