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General Things That Annoy You thread - part 2
Comments
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Jean, can I ask you which paper you read and where you get your information that illegal immigrants are to blame for all the problems in the country, because mis/disinformation is rife amongst the right wing parties.Fanny Fanackapan said:Thanks to Large & KBsLS , I feel vindicated in my posting my thoughts.
Maybe we should have a poll with the options A - agreeing on the whole with Fanny & likeminded Lifers & B - agreeing on the whole with ME14....although I can't prevent myself from pointing out that I know someone who recently attended a Stag weekend in Albania ( true !) & there was no sign of persecution, war or famine there ...
I , for one, would find the results extremely interesting.
There are good and bad in every society, but it is a well known fact that if you keep telling people that a certain group is to blame for all your problems, eventually you'll believe them. It's how the Nazis came to power and were able to do what they did.
A family member mentored an Afghan man who worked for the British Army as an interpreter. He is now integrated into his local community and working hard to provide for his family and contributing to society by paying taxes,
We need a kinder caring society where everyone is valued and not blamed for all the ills.
My husband has had need for a lot of NHS care in the last 10 months, many of those who have looked after him have been foreign born and do wonderful work., without them the NHS would collapse. My husband's care has been excellent, yet to listen to some you would think the NHS is on its knees. It does need investment to bring IT systems up to date so that each Trust can access a patient's care records, that will need money.
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I don’t think anyone has said that they are to blame for all of the problems that the country faces.Clearly blaming any single factor would be ridiculous… whatever side of the fence you sit on.2
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SuedeAdidas said:I don’t think anyone has said that they are to blame for all of the problems that the country faces.Clearly blaming any single factor would be ridiculous… whatever side of the fence you sit on.LargeAddick said:No you haven't lost the plot FF. The country is going to the dogs. A lot of the problems we have are down to illegal immigration. Whether that is lack of housing, drain on the NHS, a rising social bill or migrants who have been here just a few months sexually assaulting and raping women and girls and once found guilty we don't even send them packing because of Keir's reluctance to leave the ECHR. Farage will get in next election for these reasons alone. So many decent people are just so fucked off with it all. If that makes me a racist then so be it but I'm not. If people of whatever race, colour etc want to come here legally, work, adhere to our laws, behave, and contribute to society then I'm all for it but if not then don't bother coming.
If you listen to some of the far right parties, they DO blame asylum seekers for all the problems, yet they turn a blind eye when foreign domiciled billionaires give massive donations and then keep changing their story for the reason it was given. Billionaires don't give away money like that without wanting something in return.4 -
Well said Fanny. Some people don't like hearing it though and will get offended by your post 🙄Fanny Fanackapan said:
The tip of the iceberg of Titanic proportions that threatens our beloved country at this present time.Arsenetatters said:The judge that decided the boys who were found guilty of rape didn’t deserve a custodial sentence. Not even a short one. WTAF
WTAF indeed.
In fact, what is the point ?
As each day, accompanied by each additional piece of "news" ( now called " heartbreak" ....) reaches our eyes & ears, any optimism that the UK will be able to recover from its current free fall into oblivion decreases yet another notch.
The films envisaging " 24 Hours/Later " encapsulate my vision of our country following a cataclysmic breakdown of life as we've known it - no need for a virus of the killing kind though....but a different kind which is spreading like wildfire amongst us & dismissed by many as pernicious & dangerous rhetoric.
Yet all the discussion on here ignores this & concentrates on the impact on our future by global warming....
The Fanackapans may well have crossed " The Rainbow Bridge" by then but our grandchildren , already feeling the effects in their teenage years of the uncertain future, will be the victims of the horrors already creeping into our lives.
That's all I have at this moment in time but Arsentatters' post released this "prophecy" that has been building inside me for some time & whether you want to hear it or not, maybe it's time to have a long hard think as to whether my words have any relevance whatsoever for you & your loved ones.
Or has Fanny finally lost the plot ?
IF this post is allowed to stand , and I have my doubts, I'll be interested to hear your honest views as to the direction we are heading in this country that we "all" love.
(No need to mention the "P" word though.....)4 -
Threads getting derailed2
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I'm offended by racism, islamophobia, xenophobia, homophobia, sexism all of which are promoted by the far right.O-Randy-Hunt said:
Well said Fanny. Some people don't like hearing it though and will get offended by your post 🙄Fanny Fanackapan said:
The tip of the iceberg of Titanic proportions that threatens our beloved country at this present time.Arsenetatters said:The judge that decided the boys who were found guilty of rape didn’t deserve a custodial sentence. Not even a short one. WTAF
WTAF indeed.
In fact, what is the point ?
As each day, accompanied by each additional piece of "news" ( now called " heartbreak" ....) reaches our eyes & ears, any optimism that the UK will be able to recover from its current free fall into oblivion decreases yet another notch.
The films envisaging " 24 Hours/Later " encapsulate my vision of our country following a cataclysmic breakdown of life as we've known it - no need for a virus of the killing kind though....but a different kind which is spreading like wildfire amongst us & dismissed by many as pernicious & dangerous rhetoric.
Yet all the discussion on here ignores this & concentrates on the impact on our future by global warming....
The Fanackapans may well have crossed " The Rainbow Bridge" by then but our grandchildren , already feeling the effects in their teenage years of the uncertain future, will be the victims of the horrors already creeping into our lives.
That's all I have at this moment in time but Arsentatters' post released this "prophecy" that has been building inside me for some time & whether you want to hear it or not, maybe it's time to have a long hard think as to whether my words have any relevance whatsoever for you & your loved ones.
Or has Fanny finally lost the plot ?
IF this post is allowed to stand , and I have my doubts, I'll be interested to hear your honest views as to the direction we are heading in this country that we "all" love.
(No need to mention the "P" word though.....)9 -
So, like Suede said, no one said all, at all, which clearly isn’t the case, but it’s hard to comprehend a situation where 600,000-800,000 undocumented migrants don’t cause any issues with regards to overpopulation, crime rates or general integration.ME14addick said:SuedeAdidas said:I don’t think anyone has said that they are to blame for all of the problems that the country faces.Clearly blaming any single factor would be ridiculous… whatever side of the fence you sit on.LargeAddick said:No you haven't lost the plot FF. The country is going to the dogs. A lot of the problems we have are down to illegal immigration. Whether that is lack of housing, drain on the NHS, a rising social bill or migrants who have been here just a few months sexually assaulting and raping women and girls and once found guilty we don't even send them packing because of Keir's reluctance to leave the ECHR. Farage will get in next election for these reasons alone. So many decent people are just so fucked off with it all. If that makes me a racist then so be it but I'm not. If people of whatever race, colour etc want to come here legally, work, adhere to our laws, behave, and contribute to society then I'm all for it but if not then don't bother coming.
If you listen to some of the far right parties, they DO blame asylum seekers for all the problems, yet they turn a blind eye when foreign domiciled billionaires give massive donations and then keep changing their story for the reason it was given. Billionaires don't give away money like that without wanting something in return.10 -
So am I. Nothing in fanny's post has anything to do with that. Strange reply.ME14addick said:
I'm offended by racism, islamophobia, xenophobia, homophobia, sexism all of which are promoted by the far right.O-Randy-Hunt said:
Well said Fanny. Some people don't like hearing it though and will get offended by your post 🙄Fanny Fanackapan said:
The tip of the iceberg of Titanic proportions that threatens our beloved country at this present time.Arsenetatters said:The judge that decided the boys who were found guilty of rape didn’t deserve a custodial sentence. Not even a short one. WTAF
WTAF indeed.
In fact, what is the point ?
As each day, accompanied by each additional piece of "news" ( now called " heartbreak" ....) reaches our eyes & ears, any optimism that the UK will be able to recover from its current free fall into oblivion decreases yet another notch.
The films envisaging " 24 Hours/Later " encapsulate my vision of our country following a cataclysmic breakdown of life as we've known it - no need for a virus of the killing kind though....but a different kind which is spreading like wildfire amongst us & dismissed by many as pernicious & dangerous rhetoric.
Yet all the discussion on here ignores this & concentrates on the impact on our future by global warming....
The Fanackapans may well have crossed " The Rainbow Bridge" by then but our grandchildren , already feeling the effects in their teenage years of the uncertain future, will be the victims of the horrors already creeping into our lives.
That's all I have at this moment in time but Arsentatters' post released this "prophecy" that has been building inside me for some time & whether you want to hear it or not, maybe it's time to have a long hard think as to whether my words have any relevance whatsoever for you & your loved ones.
Or has Fanny finally lost the plot ?
IF this post is allowed to stand , and I have my doubts, I'll be interested to hear your honest views as to the direction we are heading in this country that we "all" love.
(No need to mention the "P" word though.....)
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Part 3 incoming.3
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The far right DO blame immigrants for all the problems and that rubs off on those that follow them. There are good and bad in every society.Stu_of_Kunming said:
So, like Suede said, no one said all, at all, which clearly isn’t the case, but it’s hard to comprehend a situation where 600,000-800,000 undocumented migrants don’t cause any issues with regards to overpopulation, crime rates or general integration.ME14addick said:SuedeAdidas said:I don’t think anyone has said that they are to blame for all of the problems that the country faces.Clearly blaming any single factor would be ridiculous… whatever side of the fence you sit on.LargeAddick said:No you haven't lost the plot FF. The country is going to the dogs. A lot of the problems we have are down to illegal immigration. Whether that is lack of housing, drain on the NHS, a rising social bill or migrants who have been here just a few months sexually assaulting and raping women and girls and once found guilty we don't even send them packing because of Keir's reluctance to leave the ECHR. Farage will get in next election for these reasons alone. So many decent people are just so fucked off with it all. If that makes me a racist then so be it but I'm not. If people of whatever race, colour etc want to come here legally, work, adhere to our laws, behave, and contribute to society then I'm all for it but if not then don't bother coming.
If you listen to some of the far right parties, they DO blame asylum seekers for all the problems, yet they turn a blind eye when foreign domiciled billionaires give massive donations and then keep changing their story for the reason it was given. Billionaires don't give away money like that without wanting something in return.3 -
Sponsored links:
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Maybe open a new one then ?The Red Robin said:Threads getting derailed
THIS is a subject we should ALL be discussing /exchanging views on regardless of angering, upsetting others.
For me, THIS is by far the most important issue facing our country at this moment in time despite the lengthy views expressed regarding climate change.
And it has nothing to do with political beliefs ( so a thread that should past that "test" ) OR what papers you read! I find that comment disrespectful , indicating that we don't each possess the ability to examine both fact & fiction and make up our own minds....Perhaps the covid thread should be revisited....
Let's wait & see how many on here engage on this subject ( Please note the heading states " ALL discussions" ) and have the balls to share their thoughts.
THIS is about the very future of our country. You'd better start believing that, dear friends.
If that doesn't warrant discussion on a forum of mainly long term posters, "ordinary" people ( can't think of a better word) who have for many years communicated sensibly & respectfully( well, mainly) with others, then what does ?6 -
HMRC issuing incorrect refunds then when they finally notice, demanding the money back plus extortionate interest. They've just done this to Mrs Idle and they did it to me three or four years ago. Is this an underhand policy or incompetence?1
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Just needs a clean up, which I’m sure admin will do.
I tried to get it back on track after letting my good friend know she wasn’t alone in her thinking.
Now, Sky Sports are now going to talk ALL day about fecking Liverpool FC……..oh great!1 -
But you were accusing a well respected member of our community of saying it “Jean, can I ask you which paper you read and where you get your information that illegal immigrants are to blame for all the problems” which she simply didn’t claim.ME14addick said:
The far right DO blame immigrants for all the problems and that rubs off on those that follow them. There are good and bad in every society.Stu_of_Kunming said:
So, like Suede said, no one said all, at all, which clearly isn’t the case, but it’s hard to comprehend a situation where 600,000-800,000 undocumented migrants don’t cause any issues with regards to overpopulation, crime rates or general integration.ME14addick said:SuedeAdidas said:I don’t think anyone has said that they are to blame for all of the problems that the country faces.Clearly blaming any single factor would be ridiculous… whatever side of the fence you sit on.LargeAddick said:No you haven't lost the plot FF. The country is going to the dogs. A lot of the problems we have are down to illegal immigration. Whether that is lack of housing, drain on the NHS, a rising social bill or migrants who have been here just a few months sexually assaulting and raping women and girls and once found guilty we don't even send them packing because of Keir's reluctance to leave the ECHR. Farage will get in next election for these reasons alone. So many decent people are just so fucked off with it all. If that makes me a racist then so be it but I'm not. If people of whatever race, colour etc want to come here legally, work, adhere to our laws, behave, and contribute to society then I'm all for it but if not then don't bother coming.
If you listen to some of the far right parties, they DO blame asylum seekers for all the problems, yet they turn a blind eye when foreign domiciled billionaires give massive donations and then keep changing their story for the reason it was given. Billionaires don't give away money like that without wanting something in return.3 -
My first post on the subject was in response to Large Addict's comment that if what he said is racism then so be it. That's a phrase that is often used to justify the blaming of immigrants. I'm certainly not saying that immigrants don't carry out illegal acts, they clearly do, but so do white British people. My dismay is that immigrants are an easy target and too many do blame them for everything.O-Randy-Hunt said:
So am I. Nothing in fanny's post has anything to do with that. Strange reply.ME14addick said:
I'm offended by racism, islamophobia, xenophobia, homophobia, sexism all of which are promoted by the far right.O-Randy-Hunt said:
Well said Fanny. Some people don't like hearing it though and will get offended by your post 🙄Fanny Fanackapan said:
The tip of the iceberg of Titanic proportions that threatens our beloved country at this present time.Arsenetatters said:The judge that decided the boys who were found guilty of rape didn’t deserve a custodial sentence. Not even a short one. WTAF
WTAF indeed.
In fact, what is the point ?
As each day, accompanied by each additional piece of "news" ( now called " heartbreak" ....) reaches our eyes & ears, any optimism that the UK will be able to recover from its current free fall into oblivion decreases yet another notch.
The films envisaging " 24 Hours/Later " encapsulate my vision of our country following a cataclysmic breakdown of life as we've known it - no need for a virus of the killing kind though....but a different kind which is spreading like wildfire amongst us & dismissed by many as pernicious & dangerous rhetoric.
Yet all the discussion on here ignores this & concentrates on the impact on our future by global warming....
The Fanackapans may well have crossed " The Rainbow Bridge" by then but our grandchildren , already feeling the effects in their teenage years of the uncertain future, will be the victims of the horrors already creeping into our lives.
That's all I have at this moment in time but Arsentatters' post released this "prophecy" that has been building inside me for some time & whether you want to hear it or not, maybe it's time to have a long hard think as to whether my words have any relevance whatsoever for you & your loved ones.
Or has Fanny finally lost the plot ?
IF this post is allowed to stand , and I have my doubts, I'll be interested to hear your honest views as to the direction we are heading in this country that we "all" love.
(No need to mention the "P" word though.....)4 -
Jean, I agree with you it is a subject that we should be able to discuss, but we haven't been able to as it is political and that isn't allowed.Fanny Fanackapan said:
Maybe open a new one then ?The Red Robin said:Threads getting derailed
THIS is a subject we should ALL be discussing /exchanging views on regardless of angering, upsetting others.
For me, THIS is by far the most important issue facing our country at this moment in time despite the lengthy views expressed regarding climate change.
And it has nothing to do with political beliefs ( so a thread that should past that "test" ) OR what papers you read! I find that comment disrespectful , indicating that we don't each possess the ability to examine both fact & fiction and make up our own minds....Perhaps the covid thread should be revisited....
Let's wait & see how many on here engage on this subject ( Please note the heading states " ALL discussions" ) and have the balls to share their thoughts.
THIS is about the very future of our country. You'd better start believing that, dear friends.
If that doesn't warrant discussion on a forum of mainly long term posters, "ordinary" people ( can't think of a better word) who have for many years communicated sensibly & respectfully( well, mainly) with others, then what does ?
We live in a world of mis/disinformation I see it every day on other social media and is a tool of politicians.
I asked about the media you use, because I am well aware that certain papers, one which I used to read myself, are purveyors of mis/disinformation, usually to suit the political stance of their billionaire owners.
I could post a lot more about Covid and my views on that have not changed with the huge number of studies that have taken place since I last posted on the subject. It would again be shut down as people become abusive.
You may not be aware, but others who used to comment on the politics thread, will know that I completely changed my political views about 5 years ago, when there was a big lurch to the right. I agree the future of our country is at stake and I don't want it to go down the populist route that has taken the USA on a very dark path.5 -
It's amazing how one post about 3 little cnuts being let off for rape gets the usual mob going on about far right and misinformation. Unbelievable but totally expected.4
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The media that people use has a big bearing on how they perceive what's going on.Stu_of_Kunming said:
But you were accusing a well respected member of our community of saying it “Jean, can I ask you which paper you read and where you get your information that illegal immigrants are to blame for all the problems” which she simply didn’t claim.ME14addick said:
The far right DO blame immigrants for all the problems and that rubs off on those that follow them. There are good and bad in every society.Stu_of_Kunming said:
So, like Suede said, no one said all, at all, which clearly isn’t the case, but it’s hard to comprehend a situation where 600,000-800,000 undocumented migrants don’t cause any issues with regards to overpopulation, crime rates or general integration.ME14addick said:SuedeAdidas said:I don’t think anyone has said that they are to blame for all of the problems that the country faces.Clearly blaming any single factor would be ridiculous… whatever side of the fence you sit on.LargeAddick said:No you haven't lost the plot FF. The country is going to the dogs. A lot of the problems we have are down to illegal immigration. Whether that is lack of housing, drain on the NHS, a rising social bill or migrants who have been here just a few months sexually assaulting and raping women and girls and once found guilty we don't even send them packing because of Keir's reluctance to leave the ECHR. Farage will get in next election for these reasons alone. So many decent people are just so fucked off with it all. If that makes me a racist then so be it but I'm not. If people of whatever race, colour etc want to come here legally, work, adhere to our laws, behave, and contribute to society then I'm all for it but if not then don't bother coming.
If you listen to some of the far right parties, they DO blame asylum seekers for all the problems, yet they turn a blind eye when foreign domiciled billionaires give massive donations and then keep changing their story for the reason it was given. Billionaires don't give away money like that without wanting something in return.1 -
Will be interesting to see if Fanny gets an apology but don't expect it tbh.Stu_of_Kunming said:
But you were accusing a well respected member of our community of saying it “Jean, can I ask you which paper you read and where you get your information that illegal immigrants are to blame for all the problems” which she simply didn’t claim.ME14addick said:
The far right DO blame immigrants for all the problems and that rubs off on those that follow them. There are good and bad in every society.Stu_of_Kunming said:
So, like Suede said, no one said all, at all, which clearly isn’t the case, but it’s hard to comprehend a situation where 600,000-800,000 undocumented migrants don’t cause any issues with regards to overpopulation, crime rates or general integration.ME14addick said:SuedeAdidas said:I don’t think anyone has said that they are to blame for all of the problems that the country faces.Clearly blaming any single factor would be ridiculous… whatever side of the fence you sit on.LargeAddick said:No you haven't lost the plot FF. The country is going to the dogs. A lot of the problems we have are down to illegal immigration. Whether that is lack of housing, drain on the NHS, a rising social bill or migrants who have been here just a few months sexually assaulting and raping women and girls and once found guilty we don't even send them packing because of Keir's reluctance to leave the ECHR. Farage will get in next election for these reasons alone. So many decent people are just so fucked off with it all. If that makes me a racist then so be it but I'm not. If people of whatever race, colour etc want to come here legally, work, adhere to our laws, behave, and contribute to society then I'm all for it but if not then don't bother coming.
If you listen to some of the far right parties, they DO blame asylum seekers for all the problems, yet they turn a blind eye when foreign domiciled billionaires give massive donations and then keep changing their story for the reason it was given. Billionaires don't give away money like that without wanting something in return.1 -
You’re missing the point here I think, it’s very unfair to put those kinds of words into someone else’s mouth….. it’s misinformationME14addick said:
The media that people use has a big bearing on how they perceive what's going on.Stu_of_Kunming said:
But you were accusing a well respected member of our community of saying it “Jean, can I ask you which paper you read and where you get your information that illegal immigrants are to blame for all the problems” which she simply didn’t claim.ME14addick said:
The far right DO blame immigrants for all the problems and that rubs off on those that follow them. There are good and bad in every society.Stu_of_Kunming said:
So, like Suede said, no one said all, at all, which clearly isn’t the case, but it’s hard to comprehend a situation where 600,000-800,000 undocumented migrants don’t cause any issues with regards to overpopulation, crime rates or general integration.ME14addick said:SuedeAdidas said:I don’t think anyone has said that they are to blame for all of the problems that the country faces.Clearly blaming any single factor would be ridiculous… whatever side of the fence you sit on.LargeAddick said:No you haven't lost the plot FF. The country is going to the dogs. A lot of the problems we have are down to illegal immigration. Whether that is lack of housing, drain on the NHS, a rising social bill or migrants who have been here just a few months sexually assaulting and raping women and girls and once found guilty we don't even send them packing because of Keir's reluctance to leave the ECHR. Farage will get in next election for these reasons alone. So many decent people are just so fucked off with it all. If that makes me a racist then so be it but I'm not. If people of whatever race, colour etc want to come here legally, work, adhere to our laws, behave, and contribute to society then I'm all for it but if not then don't bother coming.
If you listen to some of the far right parties, they DO blame asylum seekers for all the problems, yet they turn a blind eye when foreign domiciled billionaires give massive donations and then keep changing their story for the reason it was given. Billionaires don't give away money like that without wanting something in return.0 -
Sponsored links:
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Stoked by tabloid headlines and exaggeration from certain people involved in politics, stuff like this is just accepted "A lot of the problems we have are down to illegal immigration. Whether that is lack of housing, drain on the NHS, a rising social bill or migrants who have been here just a few months sexually assaulting and raping women and girls and once found guilty we don't even send them packing"
Lack of housing? Really? I mean I like to think most people on here are clued up enough to realise where that problem has it roots.
Drain on the NHS: Got to be some effect, sure, but if another repeated trope of the blame shifters is "they are all fighting age young men" and they are much less likely to be using the health service. Can't have it both ways.
Rising social bill? Illegal immigrants get nothing - they are illegal - asylum seekers costs come out of the overseas aid bill, not the general pot.
Criminals? I believe the protocol is to deport people who commit crimes while seeking asylum. I am happy to consider any verified figures that can be produced that show there are significant numbers who are not.
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No, it was when a poster (not Jean) claimed thatO-Randy-Hunt said:It's amazing how one post about 3 little cnuts being let off for rape gets the usual mob going on about far right and misinformation. Unbelievable but totally expected.
'A lot of the problems we have are down to illegal immigration. Whether that is lack of housing, drain on the NHS, a rising social bill or migrants who have been here just a few months sexually assaulting and raping women and girls '
It's a familiar theme that runs across social media and that is to blame immigrants.
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The media in the UK is largely owned by right leaning billionaires and they use it to promote their interests. Telling everyone that the country is terrible and falling apart is a tool they use.Stu_of_Kunming said:
You’re missing the point here I think, it’s very unfair to put those kinds of words into someone else’s mouth….. it’s misinformationME14addick said:
The media that people use has a big bearing on how they perceive what's going on.Stu_of_Kunming said:
But you were accusing a well respected member of our community of saying it “Jean, can I ask you which paper you read and where you get your information that illegal immigrants are to blame for all the problems” which she simply didn’t claim.ME14addick said:
The far right DO blame immigrants for all the problems and that rubs off on those that follow them. There are good and bad in every society.Stu_of_Kunming said:
So, like Suede said, no one said all, at all, which clearly isn’t the case, but it’s hard to comprehend a situation where 600,000-800,000 undocumented migrants don’t cause any issues with regards to overpopulation, crime rates or general integration.ME14addick said:SuedeAdidas said:I don’t think anyone has said that they are to blame for all of the problems that the country faces.Clearly blaming any single factor would be ridiculous… whatever side of the fence you sit on.LargeAddick said:No you haven't lost the plot FF. The country is going to the dogs. A lot of the problems we have are down to illegal immigration. Whether that is lack of housing, drain on the NHS, a rising social bill or migrants who have been here just a few months sexually assaulting and raping women and girls and once found guilty we don't even send them packing because of Keir's reluctance to leave the ECHR. Farage will get in next election for these reasons alone. So many decent people are just so fucked off with it all. If that makes me a racist then so be it but I'm not. If people of whatever race, colour etc want to come here legally, work, adhere to our laws, behave, and contribute to society then I'm all for it but if not then don't bother coming.
If you listen to some of the far right parties, they DO blame asylum seekers for all the problems, yet they turn a blind eye when foreign domiciled billionaires give massive donations and then keep changing their story for the reason it was given. Billionaires don't give away money like that without wanting something in return.4 -
Nobody with a brain blames immigration for all the ills of this great nation
As for the case that the health service would collapse without immigration has always irritated me. The countries that these people come from, I am sure, have not run out of ill people nor are so oversubscribed for qualified healthcare professionals they can afford to have them leaving for the UK. To address that over-reliance it should be a lot easier for people already living in the UK to become, nurses, doctors and to be able to live whilst training.
At best, weird, subjective takes on what the police and justice system should act on, what it shouldn't and who should be arrested and charged for different offences.
The police privatising theft and ignoring anti-social behaviour
I was getting into it about stop and search a while ago in the pub and one of the blokes there chimed in. He might still be a copper but he definitely was then and he threw some numbers at us regarding knife crime, victims of knife crime, the demographics of it all and shrugged his shoulders and said something like "so what are we meant to do with that data" if we aren't meant to be stopping and searching people in the profile, in the area of where violent crime is prevalent.
The bits we cannot escape is the cost of welfare, illegal immigration is a not inconsiderate part of that. Not as much as people just not working and paying tax for a multitude of reasons but no escaping the fact more is spent on welfare than is collected in tax revenue.
I hate having to say this as if I'm pleading to quantify what is plain as day. I don't give a fuck where someone is from, I care when they are taking more than they are putting in which clearly is the case given our welfare bill. That is there to be a safety net, not a lifestyle choice
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Lol ! I think most Lifers will know that I am not a billionaire paper owner ! And I have a mind & opinion of my own, thank you for querying it. As did you with the Covid issue....ME14addick said:
Jean, I agree with you it is a subject that we should be able to discuss, but we haven't been able to as it is political and that isn't allowed.Fanny Fanackapan said:
Maybe open a new one then ?The Red Robin said:Threads getting derailed
THIS is a subject we should ALL be discussing /exchanging views on regardless of angering, upsetting others.
For me, THIS is by far the most important issue facing our country at this moment in time despite the lengthy views expressed regarding climate change.
And it has nothing to do with political beliefs ( so a thread that should past that "test" ) OR what papers you read! I find that comment disrespectful , indicating that we don't each possess the ability to examine both fact & fiction and make up our own minds....Perhaps the covid thread should be revisited....
Let's wait & see how many on here engage on this subject ( Please note the heading states " ALL discussions" ) and have the balls to share their thoughts.
THIS is about the very future of our country. You'd better start believing that, dear friends.
If that doesn't warrant discussion on a forum of mainly long term posters, "ordinary" people ( can't think of a better word) who have for many years communicated sensibly & respectfully( well, mainly) with others, then what does ?
We live in a world of mis/disinformation I see it every day on other social media and is a tool of politicians.
I asked about the media you use, because I am well aware that certain papers, one which I used to read myself, are purveyors of mis/disinformation, usually to suit the political stance of their billionaire owners.
I could post a lot more about Covid and my views on that have not changed with the huge number of studies that have taken place since I last posted on the subject. It would again be shut down as people become abusive.
You may not be aware, but others who used to comment on the politics thread, will know that I completely changed my political views about 5 years ago, when there was a big lurch to the right. I agree the future of our country is at stake and I don't want it to go down the populist route that has taken the USA on a very dark path.
I have no interest whatsoever in your political views and made it clear at the outset in my initial post that the "P" word had no immediate relevance to my declaration that our country is in an increasingly bad, worrying place.
It was your good self who mentioned immigration and somewhat curiously, implicated ( certain ?) billionaires.
That in itself is interesting....
Maybe you've heard the quote " The lady doth protest too much, methinks ..." ?5 -
The UK currently spends around £5–6 billion per year on the asylum system, which represents roughly 0.4–0.5% of total UK public expenditure. It comes out of the overseas aid budget and is a very small part of total public expenditure.Carter said:Nobody with a brain blames immigration for all the ills of this great nation
As for the case that the health service would collapse without immigration has always irritated me. The countries that these people come from, I am sure, have not run out of ill people nor are so oversubscribed for qualified healthcare professionals they can afford to have them leaving for the UK. To address that over-reliance it should be a lot easier for people already living in the UK to become, nurses, doctors and to be able to live whilst training.
At best, weird, subjective takes on what the police and justice system should act on, what it shouldn't and who should be arrested and charged for different offences.
The police privatising theft and ignoring anti-social behaviour
I was getting into it about stop and search a while ago in the pub and one of the blokes there chimed in. He might still be a copper but he definitely was then and he threw some numbers at us regarding knife crime, victims of knife crime, the demographics of it all and shrugged his shoulders and said something like "so what are we meant to do with that data" if we aren't meant to be stopping and searching people in the profile, in the area of where violent crime is prevalent.
The bits we cannot escape is the cost of welfare, illegal immigration is a not inconsiderate part of that. Not as much as people just not working and paying tax for a multitude of reasons but no escaping the fact more is spent on welfare than is collected in tax revenue.
I hate having to say this as if I'm pleading to quantify what is plain as day. I don't give a fuck where someone is from, I care when they are taking more than they are putting in which clearly is the case given our welfare bill. That is there to be a safety net, not a lifestyle choice
I agree that we need more people to become nurses and doctors, that needs more training places. As I said previously, from what I have seen of the NHS in the last 10 months on my husband's cancer journey, the NHS wouldn't cope without foreign workers.
Many claiming welfare are actually in work and claiming 'in work' benefits. perhaps the big employers should pay them more so that the state doesn't have to subsidise them. I won't go into why so many more are claiming sickness and disability benefits since 2020 as that would open up another whole topic of debate.
Your statement 'more is spent on welfare than is collected in tax revenue', is true if you are taking into account only income tax, but not true if you take into account all revenue from VAT, National Insurance, corporation tax, fuel duty, business rates, capital gains tax,5 -
Or open a new one for this specific subject?Fanny Fanackapan said:
Maybe open a new one then ?The Red Robin said:Threads getting derailed
THIS is a subject we should ALL be discussing /exchanging views on regardless of angering, upsetting others.
For me, THIS is by far the most important issue facing our country at this moment in time despite the lengthy views expressed regarding climate change.
And it has nothing to do with political beliefs ( so a thread that should past that "test" ) OR what papers you read! I find that comment disrespectful , indicating that we don't each possess the ability to examine both fact & fiction and make up our own minds....Perhaps the covid thread should be revisited....
Let's wait & see how many on here engage on this subject ( Please note the heading states " ALL discussions" ) and have the balls to share their thoughts.
THIS is about the very future of our country. You'd better start believing that, dear friends.
If that doesn't warrant discussion on a forum of mainly long term posters, "ordinary" people ( can't think of a better word) who have for many years communicated sensibly & respectfully( well, mainly) with others, then what does ?
1 -
My initial post was in response to another poster who was blaming immigration for most of our problems.Fanny Fanackapan said:
Lol ! I think most Lifers will know that I am not a billionaire paper owner ! And I have a mind & opinion of my own, thank you for querying it. As did you with the Covid issue....ME14addick said:
Jean, I agree with you it is a subject that we should be able to discuss, but we haven't been able to as it is political and that isn't allowed.Fanny Fanackapan said:
Maybe open a new one then ?The Red Robin said:Threads getting derailed
THIS is a subject we should ALL be discussing /exchanging views on regardless of angering, upsetting others.
For me, THIS is by far the most important issue facing our country at this moment in time despite the lengthy views expressed regarding climate change.
And it has nothing to do with political beliefs ( so a thread that should past that "test" ) OR what papers you read! I find that comment disrespectful , indicating that we don't each possess the ability to examine both fact & fiction and make up our own minds....Perhaps the covid thread should be revisited....
Let's wait & see how many on here engage on this subject ( Please note the heading states " ALL discussions" ) and have the balls to share their thoughts.
THIS is about the very future of our country. You'd better start believing that, dear friends.
If that doesn't warrant discussion on a forum of mainly long term posters, "ordinary" people ( can't think of a better word) who have for many years communicated sensibly & respectfully( well, mainly) with others, then what does ?
We live in a world of mis/disinformation I see it every day on other social media and is a tool of politicians.
I asked about the media you use, because I am well aware that certain papers, one which I used to read myself, are purveyors of mis/disinformation, usually to suit the political stance of their billionaire owners.
I could post a lot more about Covid and my views on that have not changed with the huge number of studies that have taken place since I last posted on the subject. It would again be shut down as people become abusive.
You may not be aware, but others who used to comment on the politics thread, will know that I completely changed my political views about 5 years ago, when there was a big lurch to the right. I agree the future of our country is at stake and I don't want it to go down the populist route that has taken the USA on a very dark path.
I have no interest whatsoever in your political views and made it clear at the outset in my initial post that the "P" word had no immediate relevance to my declaration that our country is in an increasingly bad, worrying place.
It was your good self who mentioned immigration and somewhat curiously, implicated ( certain ?) billionaires.
That in itself is interesting....
Maybe you've heard the quote " The lady doth protest too much, methinks ..." ?
I mention billionaires because they fund so much of the dis/misinformation about the state of the UK.
4 -
To address the misinformed point about “immigrants draining the NHS”:• Migrants use the NHS significantly less than UK-born residents, not more. Multiple independent studies — from the Health Foundation, RAND Europe, and the University of Cambridge — consistently find that recent arrivals use inpatient hospital services around half as much as UK-born people of the same age and sex.Research from the Health Foundation and University of Cambridge found migrants are younger and healthier on arrival than the UK-born population, and that once age and health status are accounted for, the two groups use NHS services at largely the same rate — with migrants actually using dental care less even after adjusting for those factors.  The Home Office’s own Migration Advisory Committee concluded there is “no evidence that migration has reduced the quality of healthcare.” • Immigrants are not a drain — they are the NHS’s structural lifeline. As of June 2025, around 325,000 out of 1.5 million NHS staff reported a non-British nationality — roughly one in five of the workforce. The proportion of non-UK staff is higher for doctors (36%) and nurses (30%) than for staff overall. 
A third of doctors and three in ten nurses working in the NHS now come from abroad — the highest proportion since records began.  The Health Foundation estimates the NHS needs to recruit an additional 5,000 international nurses a year just to maintain current service levels.  Without immigrant labour, the waiting list crisis would be substantially worse.• Non-EU migrants pay upfront for NHS access — often more than they consume. Far from receiving the NHS for free, most non-EU migrants are legally required to pay the Immigration Health Surcharge before they even arrive. The surcharge raised over £1.7 billion in gross revenue in 2023/24 alone, and £6.9 billion since its introduction in 2015. As of February 2024, the standard rate is £1,035 per person per year, set explicitly to match the government’s own estimate of the average annual cost of providing NHS care per migrant.  Many also pay income tax and National Insurance on top of this, meaning they contribute twice.• The real drivers of NHS pressure are ageing, chronic disease, and underfunding — not immigration. Academic and policy analysis identifies the root causes of the waiting crisis as long-term underinvestment in the face of an ageing population’s complex needs, severe staff shortages, and widening health inequalities — not immigration.  NHS England’s own Long Term Workforce Plan identifies multimorbidity, frailty, and the growing burden of chronic conditions among older adults as the central demand drivers, noting that on current trends two-thirds of over-65s will have multiple health conditions.  The BMA attributes record-high waiting times to “ongoing pressure on services, the backlog of care, and chronic workforce shortages”  — none of which are caused by immigration.• The real cost problem is structural under-recovery from overseas visitors, not immigrants living here. When it comes to people genuinely accessing NHS care without contributing, the issue is short-term overseas visitors — not settled immigrants. The estimated cost of deliberate health tourism — people travelling to England specifically for free treatment — is between £110 million and £280 million a year, and researchers stress this figure is “impossible to estimate with confidence.”  That compares to a total NHS budget of around £165 billion. Proposed extensions of overseas visitor charges to A&E and ambulance services are still awaiting government decisions , meaning this is a policy failure, not an immigration one. Settled immigrants — who pay taxes and the health surcharge — are an entirely different category.Key sources: Health Foundation; RAND Europe; University of Cambridge; House of Commons Library (NHS staff statistics, June 2025; Immigration Health Surcharge briefing); NHS England Long Term Workforce Plan; BMA backlog analysis; Home Office Migration Advisory Committee (2018); Full Fact.10 -
You can prove anything with well researched statistics and factual analysis...The Red Robin said:To address the misinformed point about “immigrants draining the NHS”:• Migrants use the NHS significantly less than UK-born residents, not more. Multiple independent studies — from the Health Foundation, RAND Europe, and the University of Cambridge — consistently find that recent arrivals use inpatient hospital services around half as much as UK-born people of the same age and sex.Research from the Health Foundation and University of Cambridge found migrants are younger and healthier on arrival than the UK-born population, and that once age and health status are accounted for, the two groups use NHS services at largely the same rate — with migrants actually using dental care less even after adjusting for those factors.  The Home Office’s own Migration Advisory Committee concluded there is “no evidence that migration has reduced the quality of healthcare.” • Immigrants are not a drain — they are the NHS’s structural lifeline. As of June 2025, around 325,000 out of 1.5 million NHS staff reported a non-British nationality — roughly one in five of the workforce. The proportion of non-UK staff is higher for doctors (36%) and nurses (30%) than for staff overall. 
A third of doctors and three in ten nurses working in the NHS now come from abroad — the highest proportion since records began.  The Health Foundation estimates the NHS needs to recruit an additional 5,000 international nurses a year just to maintain current service levels.  Without immigrant labour, the waiting list crisis would be substantially worse.• Non-EU migrants pay upfront for NHS access — often more than they consume. Far from receiving the NHS for free, most non-EU migrants are legally required to pay the Immigration Health Surcharge before they even arrive. The surcharge raised over £1.7 billion in gross revenue in 2023/24 alone, and £6.9 billion since its introduction in 2015. As of February 2024, the standard rate is £1,035 per person per year, set explicitly to match the government’s own estimate of the average annual cost of providing NHS care per migrant.  Many also pay income tax and National Insurance on top of this, meaning they contribute twice.• The real drivers of NHS pressure are ageing, chronic disease, and underfunding — not immigration. Academic and policy analysis identifies the root causes of the waiting crisis as long-term underinvestment in the face of an ageing population’s complex needs, severe staff shortages, and widening health inequalities — not immigration.  NHS England’s own Long Term Workforce Plan identifies multimorbidity, frailty, and the growing burden of chronic conditions among older adults as the central demand drivers, noting that on current trends two-thirds of over-65s will have multiple health conditions.  The BMA attributes record-high waiting times to “ongoing pressure on services, the backlog of care, and chronic workforce shortages”  — none of which are caused by immigration.• The real cost problem is structural under-recovery from overseas visitors, not immigrants living here. When it comes to people genuinely accessing NHS care without contributing, the issue is short-term overseas visitors — not settled immigrants. The estimated cost of deliberate health tourism — people travelling to England specifically for free treatment — is between £110 million and £280 million a year, and researchers stress this figure is “impossible to estimate with confidence.”  That compares to a total NHS budget of around £165 billion. Proposed extensions of overseas visitor charges to A&E and ambulance services are still awaiting government decisions , meaning this is a policy failure, not an immigration one. Settled immigrants — who pay taxes and the health surcharge — are an entirely different category.Key sources: Health Foundation; RAND Europe; University of Cambridge; House of Commons Library (NHS staff statistics, June 2025; Immigration Health Surcharge briefing); NHS England Long Term Workforce Plan; BMA backlog analysis; Home Office Migration Advisory Committee (2018); Full Fact.4
