Went Owlerton in Sheffield a few times in the 80s when a student, was a good night.
My Dad used to drive up there from Ickenham for the Boxing Day morning meeting! Part of it was a Xmas social visit to big mates in Barnsley but a lot of it was for some serious action.
Prior to 1961 the only 'legal' betting was on course - horses or greyhounds accounted for 95% of all betting (how times change - with football now the overwhelming betting medium). A day at the race track was a lot more expensive and a lot less accessible than a night at the dogs, and I think I'm right in saying that in the 30s/40s/50s total spectator attendance at dog tracks was second only to football. Betting shops opening from 1961 changed the betting industry completely and if you wanted a bet on horses or dogs you could pop in to your local bookies. Attendances at both sports subsequently fell off a cliff and I'm guessing most of those dog track closures came after 1961.
In my first job as a warehouse boy the foreman used to bet on greyhound racing and he would tell me he did ‘five and three reverse forecast doubles through the card’. An absolutely marvellous sentence that sounded both poetic and mumbo jumbo to my young ears.
In my first job as a warehouse boy the foreman used to bet on greyhound racing and he would tell me he did ‘five and three reverse forecast doubles through the card’. An absolutely marvellous sentence that sounded both poetic and mumbo jumbo to my young ears.
8 races 112 bets, 10 races 180 bets.
Way back when, punters in the shops used to do those for 1p (so £1.12 or £1.80 respectively). 1-2 and 6-5 were the most popular trap combinations and the first thing I would look at was how many 1-2 or 6-5 came in!
Prior to 1961 the only 'legal' betting was on course - horses or greyhounds accounted for 95% of all betting (how times change - with football now the overwhelming betting medium). A day at the race track was a lot more expensive and a lot less accessible than a night at the dogs, and I think I'm right in saying that in the 30s/40s/50s total spectator attendance at dog tracks was second only to football. Betting shops opening from 1961 changed the betting industry completely and if you wanted a bet on horses or dogs you could pop in to your local bookies. Attendances at both sports subsequently fell off a cliff and I'm guessing most of those dog track closures came after 1961.
All true Bob, but you are forgetting that on course betting at that time was Tax free. Whereas your betting shop winnings were Taxed at 8% I think. So it was still viable to actually go to the track. After some time, on course betting was Taxed as well. The tax direct to the punter was ceased in 2001 and the Bookmakers concerned paid the tax from their profits. So pretty much the same, but collected from the bookie directly and not the punter, via the bookie to HMRC.
I can remember the dilemma of when to pay the tax. You could have a £1 bet and pay 8p tax on the stake so £1.08. If you won £10 you got £11 back. If you didn’t do the bet Tax paid you got £10.20p as you paid tax on the £10 winnings.
It made the Bookies ring at horses and dogs a nightmare with all the odd pence calculations.
Prior to 1961 the only 'legal' betting was on course - horses or greyhounds accounted for 95% of all betting (how times change - with football now the overwhelming betting medium). A day at the race track was a lot more expensive and a lot less accessible than a night at the dogs, and I think I'm right in saying that in the 30s/40s/50s total spectator attendance at dog tracks was second only to football. Betting shops opening from 1961 changed the betting industry completely and if you wanted a bet on horses or dogs you could pop in to your local bookies. Attendances at both sports subsequently fell off a cliff and I'm guessing most of those dog track closures came after 1961.
All true Bob, but you are forgetting that on course betting at that time was Tax free. Whereas your betting shop winnings were Taxed at 8% I think. So it was still viable to actually go to the track. After some time, on course betting was Taxed as well. The tax direct to the punter was ceased in 2001 and the Bookmakers concerned paid the tax from their profits. So pretty much the same, but collected from the bookie directly and not the punter, via the bookie to HMRC.
I can remember the dilemma of when to pay the tax. You could have a £1 bet and pay 8p tax on the stake so £1.08. If you won £10 you got £11 back. If you didn’t do the bet Tax paid you got £10.20p as you paid tax on the £10 winnings.
It made the Bookies ring at horses and dogs a nightmare with all the odd pence calculations.
Based on 10% tax, if you wanted to back a horse for £10 then there was the same return if you backed it for £9 and paid the tax on (so £9.90 total). Tax on gave you a 1% advantage so never a dilemma for me
Don't forget you paid tax on the total return not just winnings - so in your example the return would be £10.12, not £10.20.
Prior to 1961 the only 'legal' betting was on course - horses or greyhounds accounted for 95% of all betting (how times change - with football now the overwhelming betting medium). A day at the race track was a lot more expensive and a lot less accessible than a night at the dogs, and I think I'm right in saying that in the 30s/40s/50s total spectator attendance at dog tracks was second only to football. Betting shops opening from 1961 changed the betting industry completely and if you wanted a bet on horses or dogs you could pop in to your local bookies. Attendances at both sports subsequently fell off a cliff and I'm guessing most of those dog track closures came after 1961.
All true Bob, but you are forgetting that on course betting at that time was Tax free. Whereas your betting shop winnings were Taxed at 8% I think. So it was still viable to actually go to the track. After some time, on course betting was Taxed as well. The tax direct to the punter was ceased in 2001 and the Bookmakers concerned paid the tax from their profits. So pretty much the same, but collected from the bookie directly and not the punter, via the bookie to HMRC.
I can remember the dilemma of when to pay the tax. You could have a £1 bet and pay 8p tax on the stake so £1.08. If you won £10 you got £11 back. If you didn’t do the bet Tax paid you got £10.20p as you paid tax on the £10 winnings.
It made the Bookies ring at horses and dogs a nightmare with all the odd pence calculations.
Based on 10% tax, if you wanted to back a horse for £10 then there was the same return if you backed it for £9 and paid the tax on (so £9.90 total). Tax on gave you a 1% advantage so never a dilemma for me
Don't forget you paid tax on the total return not just winnings - so in your example the return would be £10.12, not £10.20.
Yes, I don’t know why but thought only paid on the profit. The days when we all did numbers in our heads, and on course bookies gave you fractions.
No Dumpton Park on that wiki list......just re-looked it come's under Ramsgate Stadium.
Was known as Dumpton Park, as it was right next to Dumpton Park Station. A the Stadium was Dogs and Football. Had many a night there. Including a record crowd to see Scurlouge Champ.
Prior to 1961 the only 'legal' betting was on course - horses or greyhounds accounted for 95% of all betting (how times change - with football now the overwhelming betting medium). A day at the race track was a lot more expensive and a lot less accessible than a night at the dogs, and I think I'm right in saying that in the 30s/40s/50s total spectator attendance at dog tracks was second only to football. Betting shops opening from 1961 changed the betting industry completely and if you wanted a bet on horses or dogs you could pop in to your local bookies. Attendances at both sports subsequently fell off a cliff and I'm guessing most of those dog track closures came after 1961.
All true Bob, but you are forgetting that on course betting at that time was Tax free. Whereas your betting shop winnings were Taxed at 8% I think. So it was still viable to actually go to the track. After some time, on course betting was Taxed as well. The tax direct to the punter was ceased in 2001 and the Bookmakers concerned paid the tax from their profits. So pretty much the same, but collected from the bookie directly and not the punter, via the bookie to HMRC.
I can remember the dilemma of when to pay the tax. You could have a £1 bet and pay 8p tax on the stake so £1.08. If you won £10 you got £11 back. If you didn’t do the bet Tax paid you got £10.20p as you paid tax on the £10 winnings.
It made the Bookies ring at horses and dogs a nightmare with all the odd pence calculations.
Based on 10% tax, if you wanted to back a horse for £10 then there was the same return if you backed it for £9 and paid the tax on (so £9.90 total). Tax on gave you a 1% advantage so never a dilemma for me
Don't forget you paid tax on the total return not just winnings - so in your example the return would be £10.12, not £10.20.
Yes, I don’t know why but thought only paid on the profit. The days when we all did numbers in our heads, and on course bookies gave you fractions.
Most on course bookies still give fractions if you ask - some don't, and some would not know what you were talking about!
Gone are the days of a manual field book and multi-coloured numbered tickets, but the machine does have a fractions button.
No Dumpton Park on that wiki list......just re-looked it come's under Ramsgate Stadium.
Was known as Dumpton Park, as it was right next to Dumpton Park Station. A the Stadium was Dogs and Football. Had many a night there. Including a record crowd to see Scurlouge Champ.
I've been there a few times when I was young (6-7yrs old)....family holidays to Margate, Broadstairs etc....my dad (rip) loved going to the dogs. I remember on one occasion I tripped up and grazed my leg. I was taken to the first aid place and they cleaned me up and also gave me some photos of the dogs, stadium and the pictures they take at the finish....wished I kept them now but were most likely chucked out years ago.
Comments
Prior to 1961 the only 'legal' betting was on course - horses or greyhounds accounted for 95% of all betting (how times change - with football now the overwhelming betting medium). A day at the race track was a lot more expensive and a lot less accessible than a night at the dogs, and I think I'm right in saying that in the 30s/40s/50s total spectator attendance at dog tracks was second only to football. Betting shops opening from 1961 changed the betting industry completely and if you wanted a bet on horses or dogs you could pop in to your local bookies. Attendances at both sports subsequently fell off a cliff and I'm guessing most of those dog track closures came after 1961.
I can remember the dilemma of when to pay the tax. You could have a £1 bet and pay 8p tax on the stake so £1.08. If you won £10 you got £11 back. If you didn’t do the bet Tax paid you got £10.20p as you paid tax on the £10 winnings.
One of the best tracks in the country.