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I thought young players were supposed to be fearless?
Coveredendchoir
Posts: 246
I’ve always thought our young players that came through the ranks were always fearless and ran that little bit harder as they were one of our own? Too many greats of the past decades to mention…, but hopeful you’ll see where I’m coming from… let’s compare just these two at the moment.
TC to Shaun Newton… However frustrating Shaun was over his time at the Valley, but he put a shift in with regular 6,7,8 out of 10 performances and had the awareness (coached) into knowing when to pass and knowing when to dribble & run and had a good consistent career with us, I don’t see that in TC… I think it’s his fear of getting it wrong, and his mentality is full of woke nonsense of ‘the haters’ online… as we all know when he’s finally made up his mind to do ‘something’ with the ball - he’s lost it.
TC to Shaun Newton… However frustrating Shaun was over his time at the Valley, but he put a shift in with regular 6,7,8 out of 10 performances and had the awareness (coached) into knowing when to pass and knowing when to dribble & run and had a good consistent career with us, I don’t see that in TC… I think it’s his fear of getting it wrong, and his mentality is full of woke nonsense of ‘the haters’ online… as we all know when he’s finally made up his mind to do ‘something’ with the ball - he’s lost it.
Some may see this second one as unfair.. but Karoy to Lee Bowyer..unfortunately for Karoy he isn’t Lee Bowyers left foot, let alone a Lee Bowyer, I can see that but how does NJ see he’s the attacking midfielder in our system, yet again frightened of messing up.. I think Karoy will be kicking himself this evening for missing that chance today…first time toe punt, shin it, or smash it - basically anything apart from the 3? Touches he had to control and get a shot off… blimey how do they ‘coach’ him in scenarios like that..surely we practise these things don’t we? If we are expecting him to get into those positions..
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Forgot to summarise by saying if these two played with a little less fear, then we would see better performances out of them…0
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FishCostaFortune said:Unlike today’s ‘Thriller’? 0
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TC is currently playing wing back and doesn't know how to play that role. He is a decent L1 winger but we barely play him there.
Karoy is fearless, he miss places passes and frustrated but always gives 100% and literally the one criticism you can not apply is fear.8 -
Having seem Karoy play in youth football a few times, I saw a very promising player. He is a one touch player and that touch was generally excellent. Players like this have the attributes to go far. He has come into the first team and found it a massive jump. He started well but then opponents became wise to his threat and tried to counter it. Their tactic was to clatter into him and deprive him of any time which has worked well as a plan and I think it has affected his game where the accuracy of the first touch passes has gone down a level or two. The challenge to him is to adapt as quality players do. He has to get stronger and get a feel for the pace of the first team game. I think getting stronger physically will make a big difference to his game.
As it stands, his energy is still useful but he is far from the finished article and he is young enough to address the issues. He has to understand that his levels are not acceptable for him if he wants a better career, not a lower league one.5 -
I think I’m just frustrated for both of them tbh… just a bit more ooomph needed today and both could have contributed a game winning contribution0
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These are pretty unfair comparisons. Newton and Bowyer are two of the best players to ever come out of our youth team and played at a level higher than Campbell or Karoy are going to get to. I’m not sure it’s about desire so much as talent.
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I wouldn't write Karoy off just yet.1
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I wouldn’t write him off at L1 level, but you can’t seriously expect him to have a career on a par with Lee Bowyer’s?MuttleyCAFC said:I wouldn't write Karoy off just yet.1 -
I don't know how far he will go. I saw a young player who stood out. It is more than just ability. Application is also a factor. He is clearly not up to speed with League One football and he might never be but if he can get up to speed he has a higher level game for me than a lot of young players.0
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Meet you back here in 20 years time and we’ll see if Karoy has played in the Premier League for 15+ seasons!MuttleyCAFC said:I don't know how far he will go. I saw a young player who stood out. It is more than just ability. Application is also a factor. He is clearly not up to speed with League One football and he might never be but if he can get up to speed he has a higher level game for me than a lot of young players.
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Deal! Personally I would like to know if he thinks he is doing well or is frustrated. I hope it is the latter. Some players have the ability but don't have that extra drive to become better. That is where you can point to players like Bowyer but it is a bit too early to draw conclusions regarding Anderson IMO. I am saying there is something there.se9addick said:
Meet you back here in 20 years time and we’ll see if Karoy has played in the Premier League for 15+ seasons!MuttleyCAFC said:I don't know how far he will go. I saw a young player who stood out. It is more than just ability. Application is also a factor. He is clearly not up to speed with League One football and he might never be but if he can get up to speed he has a higher level game for me than a lot of young players.1 -
Ah good, we've cracked it: players too woke to pass the ball. Someone tell Jones
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Newton and Bowyer had Curbs (with and without Gritt) and Keith Peacock presiding over the first team during their development. In short stability. Compare and contrast with the basket cases that have presided over the first team since Karoy and TC broke through. If I was a gambling man I'd bet they receive little or no consistency in messaging during training which inevitably leads to confusion and uncertainty.
Just a thought as to why the youngsters are no longer performing as well as in the past. Talent is a factor too in that the ceiling for Bowyer and Newton is /was higher probably than the other two but with proper consistent management at first team level both TC and Karoy possess the talent to perform well at league 1 level at the very least.5 -
Too scared by the comments of a life revolving around social media…. Needs to get rid of the fear.. we can see there’s players there in all of our current crop, Kanu & Miles too. Just a bit of belief needed (and proper coaching too)3
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Yes, unfair to pick on these two when almost no other player, or anyone in the management as far as we can tell, is doing the job to the standard the vast majority expect of them. We are seeing youngsters forced in to a poor side really, like so many times before, and it could get a lot worse yet. How long before we see another ownership crisis and a whole team full of kids out there out of necessity? A comparison to Bowyer and Newton feels very contrived too. Bigger things to worry about.2
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With Karoy, I see he is still trying to play his game. I think that is a positive and it can take a bit of time to get up to speed but changing his game would be a mistake. It is what set him apart as a youngster and it is what he needs to refine as good players will do.1
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Maybe I should have used lesser successful players playing in their positions… wasn’t trying be contrived just making a point of young players no longer being fearless0
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Karoy’s biggest problem is an inability to pass to a Charlton player.
I’m starting to think that maybe he should aim to pass to the opposition and he’ll probably find a team mate instead.3 -
Anderson is not the problem.
He makes mistakes trying to make things happen. He missed a good chance but made a rare, for our midfield, run beyond the strikers to get on the end of TC's pass.
Maybe if he constantly passed it backwards like certain other players he'd be praised to high heaven every week.10 -
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You could have just said you don’t rate either of them without adding that woke fear nonsense.
Indont think Anderson should be anywhere near our first team but the one attribute I’d say he definitely has is that he is fearless.8 -
Karoy is twenty years and two months old, but then again Pele was scoring in a World Cup Final at the age of seventeen so let’s write off Karoy eh?
He was the only midfielder doing the hard yards yesterday.
Maybe Docherty, Alan Campbell and Luke Berry bring more to the team when they ‘play’.
How many of us had made it in our jobs two months after being nineteen years old?5 -
TC could easily have had a couple of assists yesterday3
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Football fans in general never hesitate to write off young players. And then point to Rooney and say “well he was doing it at 16!”
Every individual is different, some mature at 19, others at 24. The only way “our own” progress is through competitive minutes, and a supporting arm around them.We’re all frustrated, but you’ve gotta get behind the youngsters.4 -
Some young players have the luxury of great players around them. Karoy doesn't have this.4
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Well if Methven and co thought they could raise a bit of money in the January transfer window with selling one of the youngsters to a Championship club or above then they will be very disappointed, as on their current showings this season they are all League One players and no better than that1
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Also yeah, yesterday was possibly Karoy's best game this season and he could have easily had an assist too1
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The silly woke nonsense thing aside, you have to laugh at the whole 'why aren't our young players fearless anymore??' question being put on a post on a very public Charlton forum created specifically to criticise our young players. Sort of answers its own question doesn't it. The players aren't above criticism but comparing them to a Champions League semi-finalist just goes to show how stupid some of the expectations on these players are and how ridiculous online discourse has become around football in some areas. 'Why is Anderson so concerned about being punched in the face at the moment?' asks man punching Anderson in the face.
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I like Anderson. I think he’s brave, he has an engine, and technically he’s pretty decent as well being able to control and keep the ball in tight spaces.
His passing, on the other hand whether short, backwards or long really has not improved over two seasons and that’s worrying for me.He does not even have a tendency to under hit the ball - he constantly does this. To me it should be an easy fix - yet it has not been, and I’m miffed as to why - because that is nothing to do with the players around him.2 -
He wouldn’t be if Berry, Allan Campbell and Docherty were performing to the level we expected.AFKABartram said:You could have just said you don’t rate either of them without adding that woke fear nonsense.
Indont think Anderson should be anywhere near our first team but the one attribute I’d say he definitely has is that he is fearless.2
