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Crawley Town V Charlton Athletic : was Wed 1st Jan 2025 rearranged for Tues 11th March 7:45pm (p16)
Comments
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Yes, you've touched on the real issue here. There is too much football in England. Other European countries somehow manage to cope with a complete shutdown at this time of year (even though the breaks are getting shorter). Their leagues are nearly all smaller, but more importantly they don't have inane second third or fourth level cup tournaments which out here would probably be called the Carlsbad Dumpling Trophy or similar.ArmchairAddick said:If the threshold for calling games off was made lower to do it earlier, there would be quite a few more called off each season, and that would make three or four game weeks even more common, which isn't really going to work unless something else is done to smooth it out (like extending the season a couple weeks, or thinning out the amount of games by reducing the number of teams within it) which brings its own problems of course.
English football has to grasp this nettle. Of course the PFA are already on it.4 -
Regarding the West Brom game, I was just desperate for us to win, with the FA Cup a) being the only chance of any joy that season b) the competition being almost/as important as the league. Conditions did get worse as the game went on and the rain kept falling but we had so many chances to get at least a draw. I was a player myself back then and played on pitches just as bad. It was just something you got on with. Quite honestly, I don't recall bad conditions (other than ice) causing any bad injuries.PragueAddick said:
Thanks for identifying my Palace game, above. I was there for this one too. And again, I don't remember being as sanguine as you about the experience. All of us in the car were ****ing fuming (and soaking wet). I dunno, I find it hard to accept this as 'part of the game' and some kind of resilience test for players and fans alike - and Jonathan Grade's tweet reminds us it isn't just the game itself which is shit and potentially dangerous in weather like that.Simonsen said:
1989/90 season. Tony Ford got their goal. Without doubt the worst pitch condition I've ever seen. Far worse than the Chelsea sand-pitch, the Coventry 99% mud pitch or the West Ham TV FA Cup match at Selhurst...which were all plenty bad.Briston_Addick said:PragueAddick said:I can't remember exactly which year but we lost a derby at Selhurst against the stripeys when the ball stuck in the mud in the penalty box and a Palace forward had a tap-in as a result.
I don't remember leaving, thinking "all part of the game, I've played in worse" etc.
Be careful what you wish for, some of you...
There was the FA Cup match in the late 80s at The Hawthorns where it pissed down all day (and I'm sure the urinals in the away end didn't have a roof) with big puddles in the pitch but the match went ahead.
Lower league West Brom turned over top flight Charlton (for the benefit of the MoTD cameras, probably why the game didn't get called off) with a goalmouth puddle helping the Baggies.
But...as gutting as it was to lose (and it was yet another kick in the guts during a mega-tough season) it was a memorable game with plenty of action.
I certainly get the frustration about the late call-off, but you know, this sort of incident is going to be more common. I was listening this morning to news of floods near Manchester which -unlike the previous two incidents - the weather forecaster failed to call. And now it's turned to ice apparently.1 -
I was at Leyton Orient that time when the game was abandoned at half time.
It turned out to be a significant fixture, as later in the season it was a serious relegation battle, which was on one day postponed due to rain, and set for the following day.
That was lucky for me as I was travelling down from Glasgow when it got called off, but made it the following day. It was a season saving 0-0 draw with the most back passes I’ve ever seen.7 -
Still annoyed the match was called off so late (actually, annoyed it was called off at all). Now we’ll have to schlep there on a Tuesday night in February instead.1
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It was a lovely rant, but also ahistorical of each country's professional football culture.PragueAddick said:
Yes, you've touched on the real issue here. There is too much football in England. Other European countries somehow manage to cope with a complete shutdown at this time of year (even though the breaks are getting shorter). Their leagues are nearly all smaller, but more importantly they don't have inane second third or fourth level cup tournaments which out here would probably be called the Carlsbad Dumpling Trophy or similar.ArmchairAddick said:If the threshold for calling games off was made lower to do it earlier, there would be quite a few more called off each season, and that would make three or four game weeks even more common, which isn't really going to work unless something else is done to smooth it out (like extending the season a couple weeks, or thinning out the amount of games by reducing the number of teams within it) which brings its own problems of course.
English football has to grasp this nettle. Of course the PFA are already on it.
Most European countries don't have a history of professional national leagues below the second tier in the main, Germany has only had a national 3rd league since 2008, France/Spain goes semi pro and regional at what would be League 1, whereas England runs with 5 Professional leagues, and the 6th tier is going that way at a rate of knots, so you have a different dynamic when cutting league sizes, ensuring cash flow etc4 -
Agreed have a spare if anyone wants one lol. Will give it back to the club on Saturday and get me money back. Wont get me 40 quid back though on travel.se9addick said:Still annoyed the match was called off so late (actually, annoyed it was called off at all). Now we’ll have to schlep there on a Tuesday night in February instead.0 -
The centre circle area isn't great and from what we've heard the refs point of view was that with the continuing rain it was going to only get worse.eastterrace6168 said:
So, what was so wrong with the pitch from that video, the ball was bouncing, sure it got held up a bit in the centre circle but come on it didn't look too bad from that little bit of film...did it🤷♂️Nicholas said:Highlights of the game if anyone is interested
https://www.sussexexpress.co.uk/sport/football/crawley-town-v-charlton-athletic-postponed-watch-the-referees-inspections-before-decision-that-led-to-boos-from-the-crowd-4927276
I totally understand why those that travelled were pissed off, but imagine if we were 2-0 up, the rain made the pitch worse and he then called it off. I can guarantee people would then be moaning that he shouldn't have started the game knowing the rain would only get worse.6 -
I was at the Palace and West brom games as mentioned and at the 0-0 draw too. Those were the days when you didnt know how much injury time was being played. I am sure the ref played about 10 minutes that night.seth plum said:I was at Leyton Orient that time when the game was abandoned at half time.
It turned out to be a significant fixture, as later in the season it was a serious relegation battle, which was on one day postponed due to rain, and set for the following day.
That was lucky for me as I was travelling down from Glasgow when it got called off, but made it the following day. It was a season saving 0-0 draw with the most back passes I’ve ever seen.0 -
parked my car in Victoria avenue duly paid me £5 parking and headed off only to find the game was postponed. 10 minutes later got back to the car park and hope to get me fiver back and the guy was long since gone.MuttleyCAFC said:I recall a boxing day game at home at Southampton where we got out of the car at Macros and was told it was off and got straight back in again.0 -
The only other time I've been to an away game when it's been postponed after I arrived was Hillsborough in the FA Cup in 2014, which was also a waterlogged pitch. That was mid February, but heavy rain can strike anytime, the 1-3 Doncaster game was in August!1
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I was on a train from St Pancras as it got to the end of the platform we were told the game was off, next stop Leicester. My son got off there but we carried on to Derby and got pissed instead. Fair play to East Midlands railway who allowed fans with reserved seats to utilise the trains coming back from leicester.killerandflash said:The only other time I've been to an away game when it's been postponed after I arrived was Hillsborough in the FA Cup in 2014, which was also a waterlogged pitch. That was mid February, but heavy rain can strike anytime, the 1-3 Doncaster game was in August!
I went to the rearranged game but i am sure it was played on a Monday night due to Euro fixtures on a Tuesday and Wednesday.1 -
a) I travel to the game, get into the ground, watch the warm up and the players pinging the ball around without issue and the game is postponed without a ball being kicked in anger.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
The centre circle area isn't great and from what we've heard the refs point of view was that with the continuing rain it was going to only get worse.eastterrace6168 said:
So, what was so wrong with the pitch from that video, the ball was bouncing, sure it got held up a bit in the centre circle but come on it didn't look too bad from that little bit of film...did it🤷♂️Nicholas said:Highlights of the game if anyone is interested
https://www.sussexexpress.co.uk/sport/football/crawley-town-v-charlton-athletic-postponed-watch-the-referees-inspections-before-decision-that-led-to-boos-from-the-crowd-4927276
I totally understand why those that travelled were pissed off, but imagine if we were 2-0 up, the rain made the pitch worse and he then called it off. I can guarantee people would then be moaning that he shouldn't have started the game knowing the rain would only get worse.
Or
b) I travel to the game, get into the ground, watch the warm up and the players pinging the ball around without issue and the game kicks off. The weather eventually makes the pitch clearly unplayable, and the game is abandoned.
I'd imagine the majority would prefer option b, particularly having now seen the ref pushing the ball at a snails pace. The game should have started.5 -
Those are fair points about relative numbers of fully porfessional clubs but when it comes to “ensuring cash flow” the main issue is and has been the lack of cash flow from the top league down throught the pyramid. Fix that - and its on the Regulator’s agenda - and you can start to cut back on the current excess of football at the levels below FAPL. If the “CEOs” of the FAPL clubs want to keep “sweating the assets” with inane pre-season tournos etc, that’s a different issue, but as I said the PFA are on to that.Rothko said:
It was a lovely rant, but also ahistorical of each country's professional football culture.WPragueAddick said:
Yes, you've touched on the real issue here. There is too much football in England. Other European countries somehow manage to cope with a complete shutdown at this time of year (even though the breaks are getting shorter). Their leagues are nearly all smaller, but more importantly they don't have inane second third or fourth level cup tournaments which out here would probably be called the Carlsbad Dumpling Trophy or similar.ArmchairAddick said:If the threshold for calling games off was made lower to do it earlier, there would be quite a few more called off each season, and that would make three or four game weeks even more common, which isn't really going to work unless something else is done to smooth it out (like extending the season a couple weeks, or thinning out the amount of games by reducing the number of teams within it) which brings its own problems of course.
English football has to grasp this nettle. Of course the PFA are already on it.
Most European countries don't have a history of professional national leagues below the second tier in the main, Germany has only had a national 3rd league since 2008, France/Spain goes semi pro and regional at what would be League 1, whereas England runs with 5 Professional leagues, and the 6th tier is going that way at a rate of knots, so you have a different dynamic when cutting league sizes, ensuring cash flow etc1 -
Good luck with selling to fans of League 1, League 2 and National League sides, that they would be cut back because of a perceived problem with money coming down from the Premier League. The Championship is the problem child and needs reform, and the Premier League with the help of the regulator will have to sort it, but it's not the other professional leagues that you seem to want to cut back.PragueAddick said:
Those are fair points about relative numbers of fully porfessional clubs but when it comes to “ensuring cash flow” the main issue is and has been the lack of cash flow from the top league down throught the pyramid. Fix that - and its on the Regulator’s agenda - and you can start to cut back on the current excess of football at the levels below FAPL. If the “CEOs” of the FAPL clubs want to keep “sweating the assets” with inane pre-season tournos etc, that’s a different issue, but as I said the PFA are on to that.Rothko said:
It was a lovely rant, but also ahistorical of each country's professional football culture.WPragueAddick said:
Yes, you've touched on the real issue here. There is too much football in England. Other European countries somehow manage to cope with a complete shutdown at this time of year (even though the breaks are getting shorter). Their leagues are nearly all smaller, but more importantly they don't have inane second third or fourth level cup tournaments which out here would probably be called the Carlsbad Dumpling Trophy or similar.ArmchairAddick said:If the threshold for calling games off was made lower to do it earlier, there would be quite a few more called off each season, and that would make three or four game weeks even more common, which isn't really going to work unless something else is done to smooth it out (like extending the season a couple weeks, or thinning out the amount of games by reducing the number of teams within it) which brings its own problems of course.
English football has to grasp this nettle. Of course the PFA are already on it.
Most European countries don't have a history of professional national leagues below the second tier in the main, Germany has only had a national 3rd league since 2008, France/Spain goes semi pro and regional at what would be League 1, whereas England runs with 5 Professional leagues, and the 6th tier is going that way at a rate of knots, so you have a different dynamic when cutting league sizes, ensuring cash flow etc0 -
I work down in East Grinstead on a Tuesday so will be a nice easy Tuesday night jaunt over after work if that's when its rearranged. Still incredibly pissed off about it though!0
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Calling it now that it's rearranged for a Monday in February and called off due to frozen pitch 😆Pelling1993 said:I work down in East Grinstead on a Tuesday so will be a nice easy Tuesday night jaunt over after work if that's when its rearranged. Still incredibly pissed off about it though!1 -
Notts county just before xmas in 1984 was hard to take. Got off the train at Nottingham to be told. A small detail in a stressful year/couple of seasons. Pre internet/ camera phones of course, and thousands of opinions as to the correctness of the decision.
Gutted to lose the £6 rtn rail fare with no refunds given.0 -
Many people who wernt there seem to think it was the correct decision.
I was in the ground about 2pm, the communication from Crawley was non existent.
2 blokes were sweeping one area of the pitch, another bloke joined them for about a minute.
Officials came out, if they threw the ball up in the air the ball bounced. If they lightly dropped it to the ground, it did not bounce, hardly a surprise.
The officials left the pitch, our keepers already out on the pitch warming up were given a thumbs up.
No one worked on the pitch from that moment.
Both teams came out for the warm up without any issues.
Officials come back out, and quite clearly were looking for perfection.
A total nonsense which sums up where modern sport is at, forgetting that at the pro level they have paying customers they used to entertain, now they are just seen as a irrelevance
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Having to make a call on a dodgy pitch is horrible. You always have some that want an early call off, some want a late call off, some don't want a call off and some do want a call off. I'm pleased that I don't have that stress anymore, trying to second guess the weather forecast too!JohnnyH2 said:Many people who wernt there seem to think it was the correct decision.
I was in the ground about 2pm, the communication from Crawley was non existent.
2 blokes were sweeping one area of the pitch, another bloke joined them for about a minute.
Officials came out, if they threw the ball up in the air the ball bounced. If they lightly dropped it to the ground, it did not bounce, hardly a surprise.
The officials left the pitch, our keepers already out on the pitch warming up were given a thumbs up.
No one worked on the pitch from that moment.
Both teams came out for the warm up without any issues.
Officials come back out, and quite clearly were looking for perfection.
A total nonsense which sums up where modern sport is at, forgetting that at the pro level they have paying customers they used to entertain, now they are just seen as a irrelevance
The one thing that is inexcusable is that groundstaff should have been toiling away, sweeping and forking until the decision had been made. Absolutely no excuses for not doing so and very unprofessional, it makes me wonder what the Crawley injury list was like.3 -
Not sure about their injury list, but they’ve been in bad form whereas we’ve won three in a row…TellyTubby said:
Having to a call on a dodgy pitch is horrible. You always have some that want an early call off, some want a late call off, some don't want a call off and some do want a call off. I'm pleased that I don't have that stress anymore, trying to second guess the weather forecast too!JohnnyH2 said:Many people who wernt there seem to think it was the correct decision.
I was in the ground about 2pm, the communication from Crawley was non existent.
2 blokes were sweeping one area of the pitch, another bloke joined them for about a minute.
Officials came out, if they threw the ball up in the air the ball bounced. If they lightly dropped it to the ground, it did not bounce, hardly a surprise.
The officials left the pitch, our keepers already out on the pitch warming up were given a thumbs up.
No one worked on the pitch from that moment.
Both teams came out for the warm up without any issues.
Officials come back out, and quite clearly were looking for perfection.
A total nonsense which sums up where modern sport is at, forgetting that at the pro level they have paying customers they used to entertain, now they are just seen as a irrelevance
The one thing that is inexcusable is that groundstaff should have been toiling away, sweeping and forking until the decision had been made. Absolutely no excuses for not doing so and very unprofessional, it makes me wonder what the Crawley injury list was like.2 - Sponsored links:
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Is this thread as long as it would have been had the game been played?3
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That’s my only issue with this all.TellyTubby said:
Having to a call on a dodgy pitch is horrible. You always have some that want an early call off, some want a late call off, some don't want a call off and some do want a call off. I'm pleased that I don't have that stress anymore, trying to second guess the weather forecast too!JohnnyH2 said:Many people who wernt there seem to think it was the correct decision.
I was in the ground about 2pm, the communication from Crawley was non existent.
2 blokes were sweeping one area of the pitch, another bloke joined them for about a minute.
Officials came out, if they threw the ball up in the air the ball bounced. If they lightly dropped it to the ground, it did not bounce, hardly a surprise.
The officials left the pitch, our keepers already out on the pitch warming up were given a thumbs up.
No one worked on the pitch from that moment.
Both teams came out for the warm up without any issues.
Officials come back out, and quite clearly were looking for perfection.
A total nonsense which sums up where modern sport is at, forgetting that at the pro level they have paying customers they used to entertain, now they are just seen as a irrelevance
The one thing that is inexcusable is that groundstaff should have been toiling away, sweeping and forking until the decision had been made. Absolutely no excuses for not doing so and very unprofessional, it makes me wonder what the Crawley injury list was like.
When I was driving down the rain, as @Braziliance has mentioned, it was mental. My old man I were saying we have not driven in much worse.
With that in mind I was sceptical that the pitch was going to be able to take that much rain, and although it eventually eased off it never stopped.
I have some sympathy with the ref. You can’t call a game off the day before or really early because the weather looks like it might be bad.
So by the time that really bad band of rain hit, it was around 12:30/13:00, and it makes sense at that point to give it as much time as possible to see if the game can go ahead and how the weather pans out.
The problem is apart from some cursory brooming from the ground staff at about 13:45 when I got into the ground they literally did nothing - so it was never going to get any better.
People will have opinions on whether they thought the pitch was playable or not - and certainly compared to conditions that used to get played in it would be. By in the modern era, if you can’t pass the ball around the middle of the pitch because the ball is holding up and practically stopping dead the game is not going to go ahead.
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I believe on a twitter feed from Crawley at lunchtime, it said that they have one of the best pitches in the league and no way would it be called off. I didnt see this myself as i am not on twitter, but informed from someone who is.0
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This wasn't overnight rain, the heavy rain came around 12:30-1:15, so it's not as if the ref could have called it off at 11am before we all set off. You can't call off a game just because some heavy rain is forecast. The ref could have called it off after his 2:15 inspection, but everyone had either arrived by then, or have been in the area anyway.
If there are questions, they would be
a) Did the Crawley staff do enough to try and get the pitch ready, especially in the worst part?
b) Is it better to start a game, with the risk of it not finishing, or to not start at all?
c) What is the criteria for whether a pitch is acceptable or not? This wasn't a frozen pitch, which would clearly be dangerous for the players. Waterlogged pitches can produce some comedy football, but are they actually more dangerous for players than dryer ones, when the main risk would appear to just be more sliding around. How many knee injuries have been caused by waterlogged pitches, as opposed to dry ones?4 -
Enjoyed watching that game, see you got it from the museum as the logo I designed is on it!. I was 13 at the time, cannot remember the game, which I may well have gone to with my late father. Forgotten that Frank Bough covered the games, long before he was caught sniffing the white powder, and bondage type behaviour, he seem's to have been 'airbrushed' out of BBC heritage programmes. He refers to the "lake' on the pitch, which must have been besides the snow/ice a very difficult surface to run on, let alone play football on, som praise to the skill of the players. The third Bolton goal was skilful, and despite a 'spirited' second half performance they deserved the win, although we did not give up. Surprised at the lack of players, feigning injury, they just got on with it!. This was in March so god knows what some of the pitches were like in January to March, people forget football is played during the winter. I long argued for a mid season break in non professional football, as the pitches got wrecked, and were often frozen, with players getting injuries, and having to miss work. But was rejected at league level..... after all none of the players were wearing gloves, let alone undergarments compared to these days. How the game has changed, and the attitude of the player's, good or bad that is up for debate, but still a great bit of film.Airman Brown said:1 -
Oh yeah...I was at that one. But for me it did have a silver lining.swords_alive said:Notts county just before xmas in 1984 was hard to take. Got off the train at Nottingham to be told. A small detail in a stressful year/couple of seasons. Pre internet/ camera phones of course, and thousands of opinions as to the correctness of the decision.
Gutted to lose the £6 rtn rail fare with no refunds given.
The replayed game was a Saturday morning (0-0....about as bad as you could get). A few of us decided to stay on for Nottingham Forest v Wimbledon in the FA Cup that afternoon. A random Charlton fan called Pete tagged along with us and we watched another 0-0! (this time, it was actually a good game though). 40 years later Pete is still my mate and he'll be making a rare visit to to The Valley this Saturday.7 -
I think it was clear when we were in the pub and saw the video of TWO Crawley ground staff half heartedly pushing a broom there wasn’t much appetite at their end and the outcome was only going in one direction6
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The only upside of yesterday was going to the Brewery Shades which is an excellent pub with great beer and good music.AFKABartram said:I think it was clear when we were in the pub and saw the video of TWO Crawley ground staff half heartedly pushing a broom there wasn’t much appetite at their end and the outcome was only going in one direction2 -
11am kick off at the county ground? Think I went to both games tooSimonsen said:
Oh yeah...I was at that one. But for me it did have a silver lining.swords_alive said:Notts county just before xmas in 1984 was hard to take. Got off the train at Nottingham to be told. A small detail in a stressful year/couple of seasons. Pre internet/ camera phones of course, and thousands of opinions as to the correctness of the decision.
Gutted to lose the £6 rtn rail fare with no refunds given.
The replayed game was a Saturday morning (0-0....about as bad as you could get). A few of us decided to stay on for Nottingham Forest v Wimbledon in the FA Cup that afternoon. A random Charlton fan called Pete tagged along with us and we watched another 0-0! (this time, it was actually a good game though). 40 years later Pete is still my mate and he'll be making a rare visit to to The Valley this Saturday.0 -
I had to call off a Sunday league game once on the football pitch next to the Old Brockleians ground down by Badgers.
What happened regularly in Sunday leagues would be the clubs paid a pitch fee, but the grounds were never touched from September to March.
Anyway the pitch was churned from other games, hollows and on this occasion areas that had been raised up alongside the hollows.
Pitches were never rolled flat, so the ground was frozen, and the raised areas of mud became like hundreds of rock solid sharp blades all over the pitch.
Now when we trained as referees it was emphasised that we could be liable for injuries if we did not take into account safety. Both teams turned up, and bless them they wanted to play yet recognised the awful nature of the pitch. Some players pleaded for the game to go ahead. ‘We will be careful” they said, “we won’t blame you if anything happens ref’ they pleaded.
But it was simply too dangerous.
I never took the match fee after inspecting a pitch and calling it off, even though I was entitled to it, it felt too greedy.6
