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Attendances

CAFCBourne
CAFCBourne Posts: 3,791
in General Charlton
Arguably our best team for years and myself feel this team can at least make the play offs but 14k today with 1.2k Exeter (good turnout) have our fans found other things to do on Saturdays after years of garbage? Will it pick up? Personally I can’t see it going above 15k until late April if we are still with a chance 
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Comments

  • soapy_jones
    soapy_jones Posts: 21,355
    edited February 22
    You have answered your own question. The product has been predictably shite, the set up consistantly shite. If Charlton was El Dorado, the soap opera would of been cancelled after one season.

    I believe the damage done to our supporter base over this last 10 years is on a par with the decline we had up to leaving The Valley. We need another fairy tale and I don't think they are that common.
  • Croydon
    Croydon Posts: 12,728
    The upper tier of the covered end was the busiest it's been for a while but the atmosphere was mostly crap I thought
  • charltonbob
    charltonbob Posts: 8,260
    soapy_jones said:
    You have answered your own question. The product has been predictably shite, the set up consistantly shite. If Charlton was El Dorado, the soap opera would of been cancelled after one season.

    I believe the damage done to our supporter base over this last 10 years is on a par with the decline we had up to leaving The Valley. We need another fairy tale and I don't think they are that common.
    People need to be able to believe that something good is happening at our club. Birminghams owners go out & buy the leagues leading goal scorer & then splash £15M on a striker from the premiership. No wonder they are filling the stadium every week, the fans are excited seeing that something is happening. Our billionaires are covering our costs but are happy signing free transfers from Luton. Add to that the appalling hoofball that we were playing & it's no wonder that supporters have drifted in droves but yes the you're right the damage has occurred over many years not just since Jones arrived with his non football tactics. Fortunately he somehow stumbled onto a winning formula but we need to go up this season or we will lose Ramsey & probably Small & Leaburn & next year will be scrabbling around in mid table again. Fingers crossed.
  • Southendaddick
    Southendaddick Posts: 5,314
    Crowd was more like the actual announced crowd today

    Definitely busier in the AC and Covered End and fantastic away support, more than we took down there I think 👏
  • letthegoodtimesroll
    letthegoodtimesroll Posts: 10,622
    We are one win away from a game changer as far as support is concerned. It’s just of which will be the one win match that does it. THAT Pompey game was probably the best example of everything coming together and then being picked up by everyone else, though not necessarily in terms of numbers I guess but certainly in terms of atmosphere. Orient away could be the match where things step up a gear or two because those of us that were last season are owed one, big time, though Stockport is starting to look like it may be the one that does it, particularly as the away end is likely to be sold out and the game is being televised. 
  • CAFCTrev
    CAFCTrev Posts: 5,978

    There’s been talk about low attendance and hopes that bigger crowds will come if we keep up our good form, but I wouldn’t count on it. Even in 2018-19, when we had a strong season, we were barely getting over 12,000 towards the end. The reality is, there’s a ceiling on how many people want to watch League One football—whether it’s Charlton or anyone else.

    Years of League One mediocrity have led many potential fans to drift away, and the increasing availability of streaming options this season is only making things worse. A bit of mid-season momentum isn’t going to suddenly bring those lapsed supporters back.

    Streaming and general League One fatigue weren’t as much of a factor in 2018-19 (only our third season at this level), yet even then, crowds remained low despite our success. The truth is, the only way we’ll consistently draw 17,000–20,000+ at The Valley is by being in the Championship.

    The club could certainly do more to promote itself locally, but the harsh reality is that many football fans simply don’t care about anything outside the Premier League’s top five. For those of us who are passionate enough to support a struggling London club and engage in discussions like these, that might seem strange. But it’s the reality.

    I live in Woolwich, and I rarely see Charlton shirts or hats. Many locals weren’t born here, and for those who do follow football, League One doesn’t even register. Most have already pledged allegiance to Man United or Chelsea—some might not even realize they have a club right on their doorstep. That could change if we ever made it back to the Premier League, but for now, it’s a tough sell.

  • shirty5
    shirty5 Posts: 19,235
    edited February 22
    CAFCBourne said:
    Arguably our best team for years and myself feel this team can at least make the play offs but 14k today with 1.2k Exeter (good turnout) have our fans found other things to do on Saturdays after years of garbage? Will it pick up? Personally I can’t see it going above 15k until late April if we are still with a chance 
    The official attendance was just under 15,000

    We have 8,000 season ticket holders

    1200 in the away end

    That’s about as accurate as it gets on this afternoon’s fixture 

    So are we seriously saying that just under 6,000 people walked up to the turnstiles this afternoon via buying online in advance or on the day and paid to watch League one football at an adult price of £25 minimum 

    Or are the figures being massaged to impress the owners
  • paulsturgess
    paulsturgess Posts: 3,804
    shirty5 said:
    CAFCBourne said:
    Arguably our best team for years and myself feel this team can at least make the play offs but 14k today with 1.2k Exeter (good turnout) have our fans found other things to do on Saturdays after years of garbage? Will it pick up? Personally I can’t see it going above 15k until late April if we are still with a chance 
    The official attendance was just under 15,000

    We have 8,000 season ticket holders

    1200 in the away end

    That’s about as accurate as it gets on this afternoon’s fixture 

    So are we seriously saying that just under 6,000 people walked up to the turnstiles this afternoon via buying online in advance or on the day and paid to watch League one football at an adult price of £25 minimum 

    Or are the figures being massaged to impress the owners
    The ground looked much better populated today than most recent games 
  • Bedsaddick
    Bedsaddick Posts: 24,750
    edited February 22
    I think that fact that non 3.00pm Saturday games are all on Sky has had a massive detrimental effect on attendances . 
    I’ve tried to get to most matches this season but I admit there’s been a couple of Tuesdays when I’ve not braved the cold and stayed at home . It’s a shame and it will only get worse when Sky eventually show all saturday games and that’s definitely coming .

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  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,854
    We're in the THIRD division, I'm not sure what people are realistically expecting. 

    I thought it was a decent crowd today, it definitely felt busier than normal. And there was a massive queue outside the club shop after the game.
  • Uboat
    Uboat Posts: 12,196

  • follett
    follett Posts: 1,034
    Barring Wrexham that’s one of the busiest turn outs I’ve seen this season, as the results continue the fans will come back 
  • boggzy
    boggzy Posts: 3,595
    People want to be entertained - hopefully see some exciting football, if not at least see a bunch of players who appear to play as a team and put in effort to get a result.

    This lot might not be the best team in the league, but they are doing all of the above, really have something about them, and if we could scrape a play-off place then who knows?

    At any rate, that's why more people are buying tickets. Long may it all continue, tho I agree with Croydon's comment - North Upper atmosphere was very flat/lethargic.
  • charltonbob
    charltonbob Posts: 8,260
    edited February 22
    boggzy said:
    People want to be entertained - hopefully see some exciting football, if not at least see a bunch of players who appear to play as a team and put in effort to get a result.

    This lot might not be the best team in the league, but they are doing all of the above, really have something about them, and if we could scrape a play-off place then who knows?

    At any rate, that's why more people are buying tickets. Long may it all continue, tho I agree with Croydon's comment - North Upper atmosphere was very flat/lethargic.
    Covered End (sorry  :#)
  • Airman Brown
    Airman Brown Posts: 15,738
    edited February 22
    shirty5 said:
    CAFCBourne said:
    Arguably our best team for years and myself feel this team can at least make the play offs but 14k today with 1.2k Exeter (good turnout) have our fans found other things to do on Saturdays after years of garbage? Will it pick up? Personally I can’t see it going above 15k until late April if we are still with a chance 
    The official attendance was just under 15,000

    We have 8,000 season ticket holders

    1200 in the away end

    That’s about as accurate as it gets on this afternoon’s fixture 

    So are we seriously saying that just under 6,000 people walked up to the turnstiles this afternoon via buying online in advance or on the day and paid to watch League one football at an adult price of £25 minimum 

    Or are the figures being massaged to impress the owners
    It was a better crowd today but not 14,800. That would mean 55% of home seats were occupied and it was well below that in the west, AC and NWQ.

    You never get anywhere near a full turnout of season ticket holders. You probably also have to allow circa 1,000 comps, many of which won’t be used. Without knowing exactly how many comps are issued I wouldn’t say the number isn’t correct for tickets issued, but you are right that we won’t be selling anything near 6,000 home matchday tickets. 

    Huddersfield might be a good crowd, but generally you don’t get much traction until the end of the season.
  • ThrappersAddick
    ThrappersAddick Posts: 31
    follett said:
    Barring Wrexham that’s one of the busiest turn outs I’ve seen this season, as the results continue the fans will come back 
    It's a big commitment for those who no longer live local, both with time and finances; when we have faced the prospect of losing to some really unappealing teams over the past few seasons, I think it's more than justifiable to stay home and listen to Tel. 

    I do my best to go to the away games nearby - but even then it's been a toss up. Having bought a ticket for Northampton away in December, I very nearly couldn't be bothered to go right up until 1pm because the quality of football up until that point had been dire. Thankfully I changed my mind last minute, and now the dilemma is trying to work out what expenses to cut down on so that I get to as many games at The Valley as I can. 

    There must be hundreds of other families in the same boat - and it becomes more justifiable the better we play. Before this season, bringing the kids to a match must have been like punishment to them; now there is a real sense of pride they have in their team. 
  • BalladMan
    BalladMan Posts: 1,116
    ThrappersAddick said:
    follett said:
    Barring Wrexham that’s one of the busiest turn outs I’ve seen this season, as the results continue the fans will come back 
    It's a big commitment for those who no longer live local, both with time and finances; when we have faced the prospect of losing to some really unappealing teams over the past few seasons, I think it's more than justifiable to stay home and listen to Tel. 

    I do my best to go to the away games nearby - but even then it's been a toss up. Having bought a ticket for Northampton away in December, I very nearly couldn't be bothered to go right up until 1pm because the quality of football up until that point had been dire. Thankfully I changed my mind last minute, and now the dilemma is trying to work out what expenses to cut down on so that I get to as many games at The Valley as I can. 

    There must be hundreds of other families in the same boat - and it becomes more justifiable the better we play. Before this season, bringing the kids to a match must have been like punishment to them; now there is a real sense of pride they have in their team. 
    Agree with the above re: children. 
    We know some hardcore kids that have been going home and away their whole lives and I have so much respect for them. 
    My boys are now of an age where they can decide (teenagers) and currently, actively want to go to the games as they like the performances and the players. 
    Long may it continue.  
  • SporadicAddick
    SporadicAddick Posts: 6,860
    It's division 3. 
  • shine166
    shine166 Posts: 13,922
    edited February 23
    Would love to attend more, but at £100 a time just for me once everything's spent, it's become a easy choice to put that money towards family life and spend more time with the boy... especially while the weather has been crap. Got some games penciled in with him over the nect couple of months though. 
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  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,730
    It's growing gradually.
  • CharltonKerry
    CharltonKerry Posts: 2,960
    edited February 23
    Airman Brown said:
    shirty5 said:
    CAFCBourne said:
    Arguably our best team for years and myself feel this team can at least make the play offs but 14k today with 1.2k Exeter (good turnout) have our fans found other things to do on Saturdays after years of garbage? Will it pick up? Personally I can’t see it going above 15k until late April if we are still with a chance 
    The official attendance was just under 15,000

    We have 8,000 season ticket holders

    1200 in the away end

    That’s about as accurate as it gets on this afternoon’s fixture 

    So are we seriously saying that just under 6,000 people walked up to the turnstiles this afternoon via buying online in advance or on the day and paid to watch League one football at an adult price of £25 minimum 

    Or are the figures being massaged to impress the owners
    It was a better crowd today but not 14,800. That would mean 55% of home seats were occupied and it was well below that in the west, AC and NWQ.

    You never get anywhere near a full turnout of season ticket holders. You probably also have to allow circa 1,000 comps, many of which won’t be used. Without knowing exactly how many comps are issued I wouldn’t say the number isn’t correct for tickets issued, but you are right that we won’t be selling anything near 6,000 home matchday tickets. 

    Huddersfield might be a good crowd, but generally you don’t get much traction until the end of the season.
    I’m of the opinion that these owners aren’t so easily hoodwinked by just looking at the stated attendance, they will undoubtedly have there own accountants looking at the figures, which can be easily checked, as an example by looking at the VAT receipts, if the ticket sales don’t equal the equivalent VAT receipt then there’s a possible error that will need investigation. The club (UK operations) will know the complete breakdown of complimentary and sales by age and season tickets. Even if a season ticket holder doesn't turn up for a game, that portion of VAT has to be paid, in my opinion that why every season ticket is included for each game. No doubt there are many other ways to check these figures, but I can’t see why you would overpay on your VAT bill. Obviously I could easily be wrong, but these owners aren’t billionaires by letting themselves being conned by some dodgy dealers.

    I was there yesterday and commented on the fact that there were more in the ground recently, but I take your point re it didn’t look 55% full, but as I inferred above, that could be missing season ticket holders and your point re concessions if they issued an awful lot.
  • RedPanda
    RedPanda Posts: 4,987
    Bedsaddick said:
    I think that fact that non 3.00pm Saturday games are all on Sky has had a massive detrimental effect on attendances . 
    I’ve tried to get to most matches this season but I admit there’s been a couple of Tuesdays when I’ve not braved the cold and stayed at home . It’s a shame and it will only get worse when Sky eventually show all saturday games and that’s definitely coming .

    It has an affect on Saturdays already. If there is a Tuesday game before or after then there's less incentive to spend £26+ that Saturday. 
  • eaststandmike
    eaststandmike Posts: 14,956
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    It's growing gradually.

  • fenaddick
    fenaddick Posts: 11,073
    If the tickets were lower people would come. Or you need to do a promotion that drags someone back. Season ticket holders can bring a friend for free and then two weeks later do football for a fiver. Gives the friend a week away to do other things but drags them back in cheaply 
  • Airman Brown
    Airman Brown Posts: 15,738
    edited February 23
    CharltonKerry said:
    Airman Brown said:
    shirty5 said:
    CAFCBourne said:
    Arguably our best team for years and myself feel this team can at least make the play offs but 14k today with 1.2k Exeter (good turnout) have our fans found other things to do on Saturdays after years of garbage? Will it pick up? Personally I can’t see it going above 15k until late April if we are still with a chance 
    The official attendance was just under 15,000

    We have 8,000 season ticket holders

    1200 in the away end

    That’s about as accurate as it gets on this afternoon’s fixture 

    So are we seriously saying that just under 6,000 people walked up to the turnstiles this afternoon via buying online in advance or on the day and paid to watch League one football at an adult price of £25 minimum 

    Or are the figures being massaged to impress the owners
    It was a better crowd today but not 14,800. That would mean 55% of home seats were occupied and it was well below that in the west, AC and NWQ.

    You never get anywhere near a full turnout of season ticket holders. You probably also have to allow circa 1,000 comps, many of which won’t be used. Without knowing exactly how many comps are issued I wouldn’t say the number isn’t correct for tickets issued, but you are right that we won’t be selling anything near 6,000 home matchday tickets. 

    Huddersfield might be a good crowd, but generally you don’t get much traction until the end of the season.
    I’m of the opinion that these owners aren’t so easily hoodwinked by just looking at the stated attendance, they will undoubtedly have there own accountants looking at the figures, which can be easily checked, as an example by looking at the VAT receipts, if the ticket sales don’t equal the equivalent VAT receipt then there’s a possible error that will need investigation. The club (UK operations) will know the complete breakdown of complimentary and sales by age and season tickets. Even if a season ticket holder doesn't turn up for a game, that portion of VAT has to be paid, in my opinion that why every season ticket is included for each game. No doubt there are many other ways to check these figures, but I can’t see why you would overpay on your VAT bill. Obviously I could easily be wrong, but these owners aren’t billionaires by letting themselves being conned by some dodgy dealers.

    I was there yesterday and commented on the fact that there were more in the ground recently, but I take your point re it didn’t look 55% full, but as I inferred above, that could be missing season ticket holders and your point re concessions if they issued an awful lot.
    The VAT simply isn’t the club’s money in the first place, so that’s never been a consideration and of course the ticket revenue tells in the end if you have access to it. It still suits the management to pretend the actual crowds are bigger than they are, as it has their predecessors, for all sorts of reasons. The takeaway is that the announced figures are not accurate in terms of the number in the ground and haven’t been for years. That’s also the case elsewhere, but particularly true at Charlton. The gap goes up and down depending on circumstances but it is always there. The only exception is cup games, because there are no STs and the club has to pay the pool/opposition to issue comps over the allowance in the rules.


  • Stig
    Stig Posts: 29,026
    shirty5 said:
    CAFCBourne said:
    Arguably our best team for years and myself feel this team can at least make the play offs but 14k today with 1.2k Exeter (good turnout) have our fans found other things to do on Saturdays after years of garbage? Will it pick up? Personally I can’t see it going above 15k until late April if we are still with a chance 
    The official attendance was just under 15,000

    We have 8,000 season ticket holders

    1200 in the away end

    That’s about as accurate as it gets on this afternoon’s fixture 

    So are we seriously saying that just under 6,000 people walked up to the turnstiles this afternoon via buying online in advance or on the day and paid to watch League one football at an adult price of £25 minimum 

    Or are the figures being massaged to impress the owners
    I've long thought that our actual attendances are a lot lower than the published figures. Sometimes, so much so that it seems hard to believe the difference can be explained by missing STs and freebies. That said, I can't get my head around the idea of them being 'massaged to impress the owners'. Surely if they were, the owners would be looking for more income in the bank.

    I agree with most of what's been said above about the long term run down of the club. Hopefully the better football and winning ways will encourage a few back. But the damaging malaise has been too long and too deep to expect a complete turnaround on the basis of a good couple of months. 

    One thing that I think could hold us back next season, even if we get promoted, is the difficulty getting parked. Yesterday on the industrial estate it was worse than ever. It seems to me that that whole area has been allowed to get more and more run down, presumably in the expectation that the scummier it is, the less opposition there'll be to demolishing it all and covering the whole area in flats. There are cars parked all over the pavement (many of which look like they've been dumped by a breakers yard) and thick mud in the streets. It's harder than ever to find a space and a really unpleasant and potentially dangerous walk to the ground once you've got one. Perhaps this is an issue that could be raised by our Fans Champions. 
  • clive
    clive Posts: 19,469
    Stig said:
    shirty5 said:
    CAFCBourne said:
    Arguably our best team for years and myself feel this team can at least make the play offs but 14k today with 1.2k Exeter (good turnout) have our fans found other things to do on Saturdays after years of garbage? Will it pick up? Personally I can’t see it going above 15k until late April if we are still with a chance 
    The official attendance was just under 15,000

    We have 8,000 season ticket holders

    1200 in the away end

    That’s about as accurate as it gets on this afternoon’s fixture 

    So are we seriously saying that just under 6,000 people walked up to the turnstiles this afternoon via buying online in advance or on the day and paid to watch League one football at an adult price of £25 minimum 

    Or are the figures being massaged to impress the owners
    I've long thought that our actual attendances are a lot lower than the published figures. Sometimes, so much so that it seems hard to believe the difference can be explained by missing STs and freebies. That said, I can't get my head around the idea of them being 'massaged to impress the owners'. Surely if they were, the owners would be looking for more income in the bank.

    I agree with most of what's been said above about the long term run down of the club. Hopefully the better football and winning ways will encourage a few back. But the damaging malaise has been too long and too deep to expect a complete turnaround on the basis of a good couple of months. 

    One thing that I think could hold us back next season, even if we get promoted, is the difficulty getting parked. Yesterday on the industrial estate it was worse than ever. It seems to me that that whole area has been allowed to get more and more run down, presumably in the expectation that the scummier it is, the less opposition there'll be to demolishing it all and covering the whole area in flats. There are cars parked all over the pavement (many of which look like they've been dumped by a breakers yard) and thick mud in the streets. It's harder than ever to find a space and a really unpleasant and potentially dangerous walk to the ground once you've got one. Perhaps this is an issue that could be raised by our Fans Champions. 
    The area is part of the regeneration plan below.
    https://www.royalgreenwich.gov.uk/info/200200/regeneration/1822/charlton_riverside_regeneration
  • Stig
    Stig Posts: 29,026
    Thanks Clive. Any idea what impact that'll have on parking? My guess is that there'll be more residents only zones and those of us from out of town will be left floundering. 
  • DOUCHER
    DOUCHER Posts: 7,905
    it was much busier today - continue this form and win a few against our play off competitors,  with a lot of 3pm ko's coming up, crowds will continue to increase 

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