I think Small had very likely agreed a deal with Preston well before the season ended. Ok, not signed a PCA but nonetheless. I mean I certainly knew he was almost certainly off to Preston in the spring and I think a lot of our fans did as well.
Small moving to Preston was not great surprise. He’s 20 and PNE are his seventh club. Two of which admittedly were on loan. His first club was his local team, WBA and he jumped ship aged 12 to Everton. Since then he’s seemingly never settled anywhere and the only stable and good period of form was with us and Nathan Jones. If you believe the reports, CAFC were negotiating with Small for months and he wasn’t interested in our offer. Fair enough, good luck to the lad for getting more from Preston, but I think he had that move lined up months in advance and was leaving us promotion or not. Don’t blame him one iota for chasing the money but as soon as an opportunity comes along he’ll be off again. I think the moment a Championship club started sniffing he’s mind was made up. Charlton winning promotion was not in the equation because it was a done deal months before.
Yep, and to add to that ...... during last year's close season, the club had offered Small an extended/improved contract. He hadn't signed by the start of the new season, so Charlton exercised their option for a further year on his existing contract.
I'm guessing Small and his agent weren't best pleased .... and once Preston made overtures to him, he was never going to re-sign for Charlton.
Incidentally, within England a pre-contract can only be signed inside the final 30 days of an existing contract. So, putting 2+2 together and making whatever, does it appear that Small was tapped up illegally?
Thierry Small also wasn't a right wing back but Jones eventually saw the potential positives in putting him there and he became a key part of our way of playing. I'm actually delighted that it looks like we're putting Apter there because it means that Jones has recognised what made us so effective from December onwards and is looking to recreate it. Having a left footed RWB playing very high in front of a RCB who can cover RB effectively and a left footed LWB who sits deeper with a right footed striker/winger in front of him is what gave our team its balance and its threat. Small was barely a wingback for us, most outlets used to describe our shape as a 433 rather than a 352 because he played so high up the pitch.
Apter is 22 and he's been brought in to be developed. He's by all accounts a hard working player and if Jones can improve his defensive game while also making the most of his attacking abilities then that's perfect; as we saw with Small it can be much harder to train attacking instincts and final product than defensive awareness. I trust the bloke who coached a team into a record number of clean sheets to manage that part of Apter's game
We were strong defensively because of Small though, not despite of him. I will be amazed if Apter can defend as well as Small which is why he was such a unique asset, despite his attacking flaws. Severely underselling Small and what he did for us there (An attacking role with 'some' defensive discipline) we wouldn't have got promoted if we didn't have Small, his versatility and movement out wide while also being able to defend changed our dynamic.
We are up a league and we have signed a pure winger to play a role that requires an engine and to be able to defend, just doesn't make sense.
Even if he does end up being this all action right sider, it still doesn't mean he has successfully done it before as there is no proof of it. His whole career shows he is a winger, and a good one.
We still need a right wing back if we persist with 5 at the back/want to be more defensive minded, away from home particularly.
@Braziliance on that chart from Transfermarkt, Apter has played at right midfield a lot, and wouldn't you agree that in possession, our formation employs a right midfielder? Out of possession he'll just have to help defend like he already would have done at Blackpool.
I believe that will be his role this season, and if we sign a more defensive RWB to compete, then maybe we'll switch it up occasionally and play Apter right up top in a front 3, but I think the vast majority of his playing time will be hugging that right touchline, getting back as well as driving forwards, and trying to cut inside and shoot when the opportunity comes up, like Small, but hopefully better.
"Knibbs has yet to feature for Reading so far this pre-season and manager Noel Hunt confirmed that after his team’s defeat to Portsmouth at the Select Car Leasing Stadium that Knibbs had withdrawn from the squad due to a development with a Championship transfer.
According to reports, Charlton have agreed a fee with Reading in the region of £1.8m to sign the 26-year-old."
I assume we are busy filming the ‘reveal’ video where Knibbs is dressed as the mascot and takes off his furry head to reveal the Real Harvey !
I hope, after this window, there's no bedwetting if we DON'T sign Knibbs!
I am waiting for the bed wetting on social media when we don’t sign anyone on the final day … forgetting what’s gone on before .. it will happen lol lol
Big caveat that we don’t know what happens when a tricky winger is trying to get past him to put in a cross but it’s not like Apter isn’t happy and able to do defensive work
I’ll be very happy when and if his Knibbs signs. Great option as an advanced midfielder and exactly what we lack. I really hope this one comes off.
Agreed, really want this one finalised, he gets a lot of goals and assists and is very versatile, I can see him playing centre midfield at times aswell , apparently his closing down is one of his biggest strengths think Jones will love that.
I think Small had very likely agreed a deal with Preston well before the season ended. Ok, not signed a PCA but nonetheless. I mean I certainly knew he was almost certainly off to Preston in the spring and I think a lot of our fans did as well.
Isn’t this illegal?
I think you’re allowed to start talking to other clubs if you’re only 6 months of contract left. You’ll recall Dobson had signed a formal deal with Ferencvaros whilst still playing for us
I don’t believe you’re allowed to talk/sign with another English club (without permission from your existing club) until after your contract has ended.
You’re not allowed to shag someone else when you’re married but …….
@Braziliance on that chart from Transfermarkt, Apter has played at right midfield a lot, and wouldn't you agree that in possession, our formation employs a right midfielder? Out of possession he'll just have to help defend like he already would have done at Blackpool.
I believe that will be his role this season, and if we sign a more defensive RWB to compete, then maybe we'll switch it up occasionally and play Apter right up top in a front 3, but I think the vast majority of his playing time will be hugging that right touchline, getting back as well as driving forwards, and trying to cut inside and shoot when the opportunity comes up, like Small, but hopefully better.
I understand where he will end up playing/what Jones has in mind for him. I am not saying he will freeze when he has to do his defensive duties, as most good footballers go back to defend, unless they're a special player and have been given attacking freedom.
My main point is, people can't say he has successfully played right wing back before, as he hasn't, and it is unlikely he will be able to defend as well as Small, as Small was actually a defender converted, not the other way around.
I think we all know now we change our shape in and out of attack, there is no doubt in my mind that Apter will offer more than Small in terms of attacking output, my concern is, is he physically as capable as Small to be able to defend and attack the whole game, especially at a higher level. We will find out in time.
Admittedly I've not watched much of knibbs but have always seen his name mentioned about as a potential signing for a good while,if he can play centre mid what's his passing like ?
I think Small had very likely agreed a deal with Preston well before the season ended. Ok, not signed a PCA but nonetheless. I mean I certainly knew he was almost certainly off to Preston in the spring and I think a lot of our fans did as well.
Isn’t this illegal?
I think you’re allowed to start talking to other clubs if you’re only 6 months of contract left. You’ll recall Dobson had signed a formal deal with Ferencvaros whilst still playing for us
I don’t believe you’re allowed to talk/sign with another English club (without permission from your existing club) until after your contract has ended.
Is there anything to prevent his representative doing all the groundwork though.
I think Small had very likely agreed a deal with Preston well before the season ended. Ok, not signed a PCA but nonetheless. I mean I certainly knew he was almost certainly off to Preston in the spring and I think a lot of our fans did as well.
Isn’t this illegal?
I think you’re allowed to start talking to other clubs if you’re only 6 months of contract left. You’ll recall Dobson had signed a formal deal with Ferencvaros whilst still playing for us
I don’t believe you’re allowed to talk/sign with another English club (without permission from your existing club) until after your contract has ended.
You’re allowed to talk to another English club 3 months before your contract expires iirc. 6 months to talk to a non English club.
Just googled "Ridsdale Thierry Small" and this article came up. As a few have suggested, it was done and dusted way before Wembley:
"Thierry Small, we've been looking at him and talking to his family - which I'm allowed to say - since we played him in the FA Cup. We were delighted that, despite Charlton's promotion, we were able to attract him."
Admittedly I've not watched much of knibbs but have always seen his name mentioned about as a potential signing for a good while,if he can play centre mid what's his passing like ?
Naturally played as a CAM and has filled in on the wings before. From what you would expect from an attacking midfielder his passing isn’t great but he’s unique in the sense that there are very few CAM’s who work as hard, press and have a big physical profile whilst also being decent in front of goal. There will be very few CAM’s in the whole of the EFL that are more suited to a NJ system
We were strong defensively because of Small though, not despite of him. I will be amazed if Apter can defend as well as Small which is why he was such a unique asset, despite his attacking flaws. Severely underselling Small and what he did for us there (An attacking role with 'some' defensive discipline) we wouldn't have got promoted if we didn't have Small, his versatility and movement out wide while also being able to defend changed our dynamic.
We are up a league and we have signed a pure winger to play a role that requires an engine and to be able to defend, just doesn't make sense.
Even if he does end up being this all action right sider, it still doesn't mean he has successfully done it before as there is no proof of it. His whole career shows he is a winger, and a good one.
We still need a right wing back if we persist with 5 at the back/want to be more defensive minded, away from home particularly.
I get what you're saying, but Apter didn't play as a conventional right winger for Blackpool.
Bruce favoured a Curbs style old skool 4-4-2, and Apter was his right-sided wide midfielder with traditional defensive midfield duties, but also being an important outlet for the team from frequently deep positions.
He did have Offiah behind him, nominally as a fullback, who could also be effective overlapping and getting forward - but also staying back playing an almost CB role, a bit Kayne Ramsey, if you like.
I guess NJ is looking to play the same fluid style as we saw 2nd half of last season?
It's important to remember that Apter has a good engine, and built a reputation for tracking back and tenacity - not afraid of defending or making a tackle. I can't imagine NJ would have wanted him otherwise.
Where Small did have an edge was with his biig build; his strength and physicality was a great advantage when he powered forward. But then his lack of composure and reading of the game was often a big disappointment.
There'll be other team mates to compensate for losing Small's physicality - and it's up to NJ to select players to provide the crucial balance in the team. Apter doesn't have that physical presence in the same way, of course, but his football brain and end product appears to be far ahead of Small.
Admittedly I've not watched much of knibbs but have always seen his name mentioned about as a potential signing for a good while,if he can play centre mid what's his passing like ?
If you’re hoping for a creative passer it doesn’t sound that’s what he’s about, everything I’ve seen suggests he’s a hard working goalscorer who presses well.
On his technical ability I’ve seen some Reading fans have doubted his touch, passing etc is good enough for the Championship.
Sounds a proper NJ player - for Reading he has the output he wants in terms of running, ball winning, goals and a few assists, but not the flair, creativity, dribbling etc fans in general want in a more typical attacking midfielder.
We were strong defensively because of Small though, not despite of him. I will be amazed if Apter can defend as well as Small which is why he was such a unique asset, despite his attacking flaws. Severely underselling Small and what he did for us there (An attacking role with 'some' defensive discipline) we wouldn't have got promoted if we didn't have Small, his versatility and movement out wide while also being able to defend changed our dynamic.
We are up a league and we have signed a pure winger to play a role that requires an engine and to be able to defend, just doesn't make sense.
Even if he does end up being this all action right sider, it still doesn't mean he has successfully done it before as there is no proof of it. His whole career shows he is a winger, and a good one.
We still need a right wing back if we persist with 5 at the back/want to be more defensive minded, away from home particularly.
I get what you're saying, but Apter didn't play as a conventional right winger for Blackpool.
Bruce favoured a Curbs style old skool 4-4-2, and Apter was his right-sided wide midfielder with traditional defensive midfield duties, but also being an important outlet for the team from frequently deep positions.
He did have Offiah behind him, nominally as a fullback, who could also be effective overlapping and getting forward - but also staying back playing an almost CB role, a bit Kayne Ramsey, if you like.
I guess NJ is looking to play the same fluid style as we saw 2nd half of last season?
It's important to remember that Apter has a good engine, and built a reputation for tracking back and tenacity - not afraid of defending or making a tackle. I can't imagine NJ would have wanted him otherwise.
Where Small did have an edge was with his biig build; his strength and physicality was a great advantage when he powered forward. But then his lack of composure and reading of the game was often a big disappointment.
There'll be other team mates to compensate for losing Small's physicality - and it's up to NJ to select players to provide the crucial balance in the team. Apter doesn't have that physical presence in the same way, of course, but his football brain and end product appears to be far ahead of Small.
You've pretty much broke it down perfectly.
To be fair, I can see what Jones has in mind for him, and I can see how it might work, I am mainly nit picking over people saying he has been succesful as a wing back before, as he hasn't, but I should probably just let that go.
I think Apter is going to be class going forwards, look forward to seeing what he can do. I feel he is going to be what we thought Charlie Kirk would be, a hard working winger with end product. He definitely doesn't strike me as someone like Kirk who was a bit meek, he seems a confident lad who believes he can play at a higher level.
Admittedly I've not watched much of knibbs but have always seen his name mentioned about as a potential signing for a good while,if he can play centre mid what's his passing like ?
If you’re hoping for a creative passer it doesn’t sound that’s what he’s about, everything I’ve seen suggests he’s a hard working goalscorer who presses well.
On his technical ability I’ve seen some Reading fans have doubted his touch, passing etc is good enough for the Championship.
Sounds a proper NJ player - for Reading he has the output he wants in terms of running, ball winning, goals and a few assists, but not the flair, creativity, dribbling etc fans in general want in a more typical attacking midfielder.
I obviously can't say I have watched as much as a Reading fan, but is that sour grapes?
Knibbs moves with the ball and off the ball very well and had a great understanding with Sam Smith, if he can replicate a same understanding with Kelman, we are in for a right treat.
Comments
He hadn't signed by the start of the new season, so Charlton exercised their option for a further year on his existing contract.
I'm guessing Small and his agent weren't best pleased .... and once Preston made overtures to him, he was never going to re-sign for Charlton.
Incidentally, within England a pre-contract can only be signed inside the final 30 days of an existing contract.
So, putting 2+2 together and making whatever, does it appear that Small was tapped up illegally?
We are up a league and we have signed a pure winger to play a role that requires an engine and to be able to defend, just doesn't make sense.
Even if he does end up being this all action right sider, it still doesn't mean he has successfully done it before as there is no proof of it. His whole career shows he is a winger, and a good one.
We still need a right wing back if we persist with 5 at the back/want to be more defensive minded, away from home particularly.
I believe that will be his role this season, and if we sign a more defensive RWB to compete, then maybe we'll switch it up occasionally and play Apter right up top in a front 3, but I think the vast majority of his playing time will be hugging that right touchline, getting back as well as driving forwards, and trying to cut inside and shoot when the opportunity comes up, like Small, but hopefully better.
Big caveat that we don’t know what happens when a tricky winger is trying to get past him to put in a cross but it’s not like Apter isn’t happy and able to do defensive work
My main point is, people can't say he has successfully played right wing back before, as he hasn't, and it is unlikely he will be able to defend as well as Small, as Small was actually a defender converted, not the other way around.
I think we all know now we change our shape in and out of attack, there is no doubt in my mind that Apter will offer more than Small in terms of attacking output, my concern is, is he physically as capable as Small to be able to defend and attack the whole game, especially at a higher level. We will find out in time.
"Thierry Small, we've been looking at him and talking to his family - which I'm allowed to say - since we played him in the FA Cup. We were delighted that, despite Charlton's promotion, we were able to attract him."
https://www.lep.co.uk/sport/football/preston-north-end/preston-north-end-transfer-news-rumours-callum-lang-portsmouth-pompey-sheffield-wednesday-pne-5235748
https://x.com/RichSCawley/status/1949765910866055657?t=q2CsMBnrMFwZzYkFCN9Nhw&s=19
"Charlton are working on a deal for Harvey Knibbs, but you no doubt already know that, because you wont stop bothering me with questions about him"
Bruce favoured a Curbs style old skool 4-4-2, and Apter was his right-sided wide midfielder with traditional defensive midfield duties, but also being an important outlet for the team from frequently deep positions.
He did have Offiah behind him, nominally as a fullback, who could also be effective overlapping and getting forward - but also staying back playing an almost CB role, a bit Kayne Ramsey, if you like.
I guess NJ is looking to play the same fluid style as we saw 2nd half of last season?
It's important to remember that Apter has a good engine, and built a reputation for tracking back and tenacity - not afraid of defending or making a tackle.
I can't imagine NJ would have wanted him otherwise.
Where Small did have an edge was with his biig build; his strength and physicality was a great advantage when he powered forward.
But then his lack of composure and reading of the game was often a big disappointment.
There'll be other team mates to compensate for losing Small's physicality - and it's up to NJ to select players to provide the crucial balance in the team.
Apter doesn't have that physical presence in the same way, of course, but his football brain and end product appears to be far ahead of Small.
On his technical ability I’ve seen some Reading fans have doubted his touch, passing etc is good enough for the Championship.
Sounds a proper NJ player - for Reading he has the output he wants in terms of running, ball winning, goals and a few assists, but not the flair, creativity, dribbling etc fans in general want in a more typical attacking midfielder.
To be fair, I can see what Jones has in mind for him, and I can see how it might work, I am mainly nit picking over people saying he has been succesful as a wing back before, as he hasn't, but I should probably just let that go.
I think Apter is going to be class going forwards, look forward to seeing what he can do. I feel he is going to be what we thought Charlie Kirk would be, a hard working winger with end product. He definitely doesn't strike me as someone like Kirk who was a bit meek, he seems a confident lad who believes he can play at a higher level.
Can't see Jamie Donley coming in now.
Best window since the 11/12 Powell rebuild?
Knibbs moves with the ball and off the ball very well and had a great understanding with Sam Smith, if he can replicate a same understanding with Kelman, we are in for a right treat.
Watch some of his play here, he is brilliant