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Incident in Nice
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RIP. terrible news.0
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At a pre-planned event maybe. However, should something like the Bataclan attack happen (unexpected, on an "average evening") outside of a metropolitan area then I dread to think how we'd respond.Super_Eddie_Youds said:
At a gathering this size, they'd be there already. No doubt. Not sure what your point is though, are you saying he police in this country should be routinely armed?Lincsaddick said:
but probably they'd arrive well after the event .. the point is that an immediate response is required, not calling for an 'armed response' car that might be miles awaySuper_Eddie_Youds said:
If this event was in the UK there would be armed police all over it.Lincsaddick said:
good point BUT to stop a vehicle that has circumvented obstacles and security procedures, the best way is to shoot the driver .. deadGoonerhater said:a gun against a 4 ton truck ?
Take a look outside your office windows ----see those massive "flower pots" ? take a walk down Victoria street---see the big planters out side many many buildings? just to bring flowers and plants into Westminster aint they ?
If so, it's coming through the back door anyway, but if the police aren't calling for it then why should we? They're the experts.
France have 100K more police than we do, but have bolstered their security forces by 10K today by pulling in army reserves to bolster the police numbers. We regularly bolster our police force though.. with volunteers (Special Constables), and that's for average front-line policing duties with no additional stress. If you pay attention to the epaulettes of the police you see in Central London, or anywhere of a weekend evening, you'll be shocked to see how many have the Special Constabulary crown on them.
We've got a police force that has been hit hard by cuts (thanks to our new Prime Minister), and that includes to Armed Response. That said, the Met do appear to have had significant money poured in to the type of units they'd need to respond to an incident. Greater Manchester were also carrying out drills recently too. That's great for Manchester and London, but not so good for anywhere else though.
It's also worth considering that this has happened, even though we've been told by UK Gov that we've been specifically preparing for an active-shooter type of scenario ever since Charlie Hebdo...0 -
this is really getting off the topic of the Nice atrocity .. however, if you haven't got 'my point', then so be it .. and as for armed police being at any 'gathering' .. a lorry aimed at a bus queue could do a LOT of damage, I would not expect armed police to be standing by at every street corner or shopping mall .. compare with the Glasgow accident with the refuse truck, six dead, fifteen seriously injured .. imagine the carnage if the driver had intended to kill in that particular situation .. there have been several recent incidents of 'murder by vehicle' in the UK .. to me, there is little or nothing that can be done in the normal course of things, rather as with the increasing number of attacks on people using acid as a weaponSuper_Eddie_Youds said:
At a gathering this size, they'd be there already. No doubt. Not sure what your point is though, are you saying he police in this country should be routinely armed?Lincsaddick said:
but probably they'd arrive well after the event .. the point is that an immediate response is required, not calling for an 'armed response' car that might be miles awaySuper_Eddie_Youds said:
If this event was in the UK there would be armed police all over it.Lincsaddick said:
good point BUT to stop a vehicle that has circumvented obstacles and security procedures, the best way is to shoot the driver .. deadGoonerhater said:a gun against a 4 ton truck ?
Take a look outside your office windows ----see those massive "flower pots" ? take a walk down Victoria street---see the big planters out side many many buildings? just to bring flowers and plants into Westminster aint they ?
If so, it's coming through the back door anyway, but if the police aren't calling for it then why should we? They're the experts.0 -
RIP to all those that have lost their lives. Thoughts and prayers to all those who have survived and to all the friends and families of those that have so tragically died. And also to the people of France in general, when will it end?
(The internet is a powerful tool but it shouldn't be used to post videos of people actually losing their lives and the immediate aftermath of such events. Those poor people, many children, deserve to be shown the utmost respect and dignity at such a time. Of course events will be covered on the news afterwards but to show such videos is, in my opinion, frankly appalling and distasteful. I'm also not sure I care much for the people whose first instinct in such an event is to film it.)6 -
Bloc Identitairecantersaddick said:Only so many times people will sit by and see innocent people killed. Eventually people will be pushed over the edge.
I don't know whether France have an equivalentof the EDL but I imagine the demand for their applications will rocket.
Not saying this is right personally I think the moral high ground is the way to go. Violence never ends violence. But I wouldn't be surprised to see armed militias/local defence forces patrolling the streets etc.0 -
This comment has provoked a fair amount of outrage on Twitter, I hope it's actually something lost in translation:
The attacker's name has been mentioned in local media, Mohamed Lahouaiej Bouhlel, who's local.
There's also more bravery being mentioned, as someone attempted to jump on the truck during the final moments. It sound's like that shock gave the police enough surprise to then kill the driver. There's some very brave stories coming out, ones that deserve a lot more attention than the coward who hid in a truck and had an easy death by bullet.2 -
If we don't watch them they won't be put online.Bedsaddick said:Anybody thinking about posting pictures or videos - please don't .
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The unimaginable horror to be sat on the floor beside your deceased son, or daughter or wife/husband waiting for someone to come along and help you move their body. Horrendous scenes. Truly bloody awful.
Poor France. RIP to all the victims.
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Hope this is just the police being very cautious and not a real device.0 -
"Live with terrorism" or "die with terrorism"
Don't pull the guy up for the irony in that comment when the man is speaking what every intelligent person knows.
The sad truth is you can't Beat terrorism in a free liberal society.
you can just negate the threat from time to time.
The mayor of London( Ken Livingstone) and the chief constable of the Met,
Before 7/7, said it was when, not If London would be a target.
Only Prescience words because most of the killers come from within.
as in the teacher from Leeds who was a 7/7 Bomber.2 - Sponsored links:
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Yes you can beat terrorism read the book " war of the running dogs" About communists terrorists in Malaya and how they were beaten
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Possibly for the ISIS thread, but a very different sort of terrorism, Malaya was different in many ways.Goonerhater said:Yes you can beat terrorism read the book " war of the running dogs" About communists terrorists in Malaya and how they were beaten
Much more of a guerrilla army/insurgency type of campaign, and the authorities could enforce news black-outs in those days.1 -
Not possible in a Western free liberal society,
where people of all shades of views,language and colour,
Try to work, live and play together.
Can't comment on Malaya.
But Zero chance when if you kill One terrorist,
or they kill their selves another 10 will take their place.
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Nice Airport now been evacuated, not sure on the seriousness of it yet, could just be a panic based on an unaccompanied bag. Apparently there are military inside the empty terminal.0
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Lockdown now over, understandable to evacuate over small things in the wake of last night.0
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I think I saw the same video at about 6 o'clock this morning. Horrible footage. The worst traffic collisions are those involving lorries (obviously).AFKABartram said:Could just be a rogue nut job, absolutely tragic. Just accidentally watched a video on Twitter of the aftermath and it was horrific
Why can't the bastards just leave everyone alone? These are innocent people. Men. Women. Children. Families destroyed for what?1 -
Very thoughtful and intelligent post which I think is very truthful.DRAddick said:
Whilst I agree when it comes to things like football the French Police are dire, it's very easy to criticize when I doubt you have any responsibility or experience in this kind of thing or have taken any interest in the country's politics or cultural landscape.cafc_harry said:France's absolutely lacklustre police being shown up again. Needs a serious overhaul, the attacks on France are almost as common as those in Turkey/ Iraq etc. a HIC Western European country should be catching this much, much earlier.
An attack like this is practically impossible to stop because when it's a simple attack by one or two people what intelligence is there really going to be? Unless a witness happens to find out and tells the authorities?
I love France and the people but I'm convinced that one of the main reasons France has more attacks is not because of the Police's lack of ability but because the country's housing policy in its major cities over decades has hugely marginalised immigrants and the poor, which has led to more radicalisation. To an extent far greater than we have over here. Plus you mention the weapons but there are far more weapons easily obtainable in mainland Europe than there are here simply because of the open borders where as we are an island, the fact that many countries have weapons legally anyway which we don't, and more importantly because the open borders are within easy reach of eastern european countries which is where the vast majority of illegal weapons in western europe come from. Criminals (and dodgy authorities) in Eastern europe have loads of arms and they don't give a fuck about who they sell them to.
People see cities like Paris and Nice as beautiful cities, and they are, but they achieve that a lot by pushing council estates and it's poverty to the outskirts of the city where they hope no one will see. Next time you visit Paris, leave the rich tourist centre and drive to the estates in the outskirts. They are more grim than any council estate you will see in London, Manchester, Birmingham, Berlin, Barcelona etc.... You can be walking around a nice area in the centre of London or other capital cities and turn a corner and you're on a council estate. Not so in Paris and some of it's other "beautiful" cities. And of course the poverty areas tend to have the biggest poor immigrants and therefore Muslims. That breeds further poverty and animosity. London thankfully has not done that (yet). Whilst things are changing and people are trying to gentrify everywhere, we (and other European cities) still have rich housing next door to poor estates, and that has made for more integration. It isn't just a simple question of intelligence by the authorities but creating the breeding grounds for the situations to be more likely.
Sickening for all the innocent people and their families, and as usual they are all easy innocent people targeted by cowards and not people who could ever be described as legitimate targets who could fight back. RIP.
It is why when politicians don't govern for all, they do so at their peril.
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RIP. Awful news and with around 50 critically injured 84 deaths may well rise.
Perhaps its a time for quiet reflection. There are a few thoughts that go through my head as to how we might tackle these issues. They will have to wait.
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Does anyone else have the opinion that Hollande's quote of "we will always be stronger than terrorists" is perhaps not the wisest thing to say? I get the impression this group will take that as a threat/challenge.1
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Anyone who pays £8000 a month for a hairdresser is probably not the best qualified to fight terrorism.andyg90 said:Does anyone else have the opinion that Hollande's quote of "we will always be stronger than terrorists" is perhaps not the wisest thing to say? I get the impression this group will take that as a threat/challenge.
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Sickening
RIP to all the victims0 -
This is unbelievable! So so tragic my thought go out to the families and friends of the the innocent people killed! Terrible ! RIP0
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Just sad. What a f****ng mess we've got ourselves into.0
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I have just felt sad all day not angry just sad can't shake it off
I cant stop thinking about the poor children, the poor parents
How scared they must have been how horrific what this cnut done
And there's no cure for this disease there's no end in sight and I am just sad about that, I want to be angry, I want revenge that's for sure but against who and how
, but then I get bought back to looking at my kids my wife and think for the grace of God every day my family stay safe from these people
Fuck you isis fuck you fuck you fuck you
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Even before the blood in the streets has dried and it's our fault, might've knownWheresmeticket? said:Just sad. What a f****ng mess we've got ourselves into.
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cantersaddick said:
Only so many times people will sit by and see innocent people killed. Eventually people will be pushed over the edge.
I don't know whether France have an equivalentof the EDL but I imagine the demand for their applications will rocket.
If they do they do.
Me personally, I'd rather stand up and fight these scum.
Donald Trump has said we need to get to the root of this and I agree. Myself... I would rather be called an islamophobe than see my family and friends die.0 -
If they do they do.
Me personally, I'd rather stand up and fight these scum.
Donald Trump has said we need to get to the root of this and I agree. Myself... I would rather be called an islamophobe than see my family and friends die.2 -
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I meant humanity.i_b_b_o_r_g said:
Even before the blood in the streets has dried and it's our fault, might've knownWheresmeticket? said:Just sad. What a f****ng mess we've got ourselves into.
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Ants are always fighting each other and they get byWheresmeticket? said:
I meant humanity.i_b_b_o_r_g said:
Even before the blood in the streets has dried and it's our fault, might've knownWheresmeticket? said:Just sad. What a f****ng mess we've got ourselves into.
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