Olympic Stadium; our day in court
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But who will Millwall blame it on when it all kicks off?lancashire lad said:Let's hope they draw Millwall in the FA Cup
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Just a thought. Have the Stadium admin thought of outsourcing the police presence to a group of corner shop owners??
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Don't worry they have plenty...Redrobo said:
But who will Millwall blame it on when it all kicks off?lancashire lad said:Let's hope they draw Millwall in the FA Cup
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The reason you can't understand is because there is nothing to understand. This was dodgy from the start. All you have to do if you want to do Boris' Tory party donating mates a favour is change the requirements which mean a premiership club has to play there (complete rubbish). Then when you have done that criticise the design because it doesn't meet this new invented requirement. As a premiership club has to use it - no expense can be spared - tax payers get stung - Tory party or Boris get modest financial support from their friends going forwards. Not a good rate of exchange but it isn't their money, it is tax payers' money. This is money laundering - nothing more nothing less.killerandflash said:
The upper tier was designed to be removed after the Olympics so was a very basic structure, leaving a 30k athletics track using the permanent lower tier. I still don't entirely understand why "we" couldn't afford to just keep this going, but CAN afford the massive bill involved in converting it into a football stadium?Missed It said:
It really isn't. I was there for the Olympics and couldn't believe what a bare-bones structure it was. Spurs had the right idea, knock it down and build a proper football ground with a sensible athletics facility elsewhere. As usual, ego and greed get in the way of common sense.colthe3rd said:
I suppose the benefit of keeping the higher capacity is that it can be used next summer for the World Athletics, but after that the 60k capacity will probably never be needed again for athletics8 -
The Sports Ground Safety Authority are all over this at the moment, with one of their safety advisers spending all her time at the Olympic Park.
Some issue that haven't come to light so far, include the fact that LS185 have not accepted handover of the removable seated area from the Contractors and no one is actually taking responsibility for them - or the safety of people who use them. These seats are not included within the Stadiums safety certificate and should not be used until full handover to LS185 has been accepted.
West Ham have already been threatened with the removal of the safety certificate unless they make significant improvements over the next four weeks - including re-siting fans to designated areas to prevent more issues from the old guard and the newer prawn sarnie brigade. It appears the family area is actually half way up a stand with some choice language being experienced by the children present from all areas around them.
The Police issue is also a concern. It is the Police themselves who are refusing to go into the stadium, unless they are provided with reliable radio communications. There is a Police presence outside the ground, but is purely on a public order basis and is not supported by response teams as back up should there be an incident........ for the moment.21 -
My wifes a WHU fan so I went to the preseason friendly at Olympic Park V Juventus, and before that the Anniversary Games, and a few things were obvious then:
The fans who used to be in the standup, shout and sing section have been dispersed all over the ground, so pensioners and children have fans who want to stand up and sing in front of people who dont, or cant. This means that the atmos is damaged as everyones dispersed, and also that people who wish to sit and watch the game cant enjoy the game the way they prefer. This undoubtedly will lead to rows between WHU fans, as I believe happened last week.
Secondly that the view is already poor because a lot are sitting a very long way from the action, and thats without fans also standing up and obscuring it further.
Theres very little segregation, and you could walk all around the ground inside the stadium. Unless they have since subdivided the walkway (they hadnt then, a week before the season start) and installed barriers there was nothing to prevent home & away friends getting together to "mingle". Plus I couldnt see designated Away entrances and exits, and once your through the turnstyles, in any case theres no segregation.
Finally, and I thought probably most seriously, when you leave there seems to be just the one shared route out, on the bridge across the river, past a funfair, and then through to the shopping centre, and then carpark and station etc. The shopping centre on a busy saturday has cafes and bars with lots of nice chairs & tables to throw around, plus many nonfootballing shoppers and diners. This seemed, to my eyes, to be just asking for trouble. And I cant see how this can be controlled unless there was a really big police presense, and the away fans are kept back for ages (not easy when theres no barriers in the ground), and then its still ambush alley, especially at games with "history" behind them.
Basically its a fine athletics stadium but a very niavely designed, and badly compromised football ground. If they drew Millwall in the Cup I would put the balls back in the bag.
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I attended the Anniversary games and was also surprised at the route through the shopping centre. On returning to the station the large, obedient, family crowd was staggered by marshals to prevent crushing. I wondered how that would work if West Ham had just been stuffed 0 3 by Chelsea.
The Shopping centre and shoppers could’ve been better protected if a station had been built in or adjacent to the Olympic Park.
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There has been a fair bit of work since the anniversary games to "football" it up, including new "temporary stands " over the running track, but the problems with the shopping centre still remain. I dont think one feller on the door at John Lewis to prevent people cutting through is going to work. I can imagine a few hundred "Fans" storming through the stores and helping themselves to five finger discount, at least that will help them recoup the exorbitant cost of the food and drink at the stadium itself.Raith_C_Chattonell said:I attended the Anniversary games and was also surprised at the route through the shopping centre. On returning to the station the large, obedient, family crowd was staggered by marshals to prevent crushing. I wondered how that would work if West Ham had just been stuffed 0 3 by Chelsea.
The Shopping centre and shoppers could’ve been better protected if a station had been built in or adjacent to the Olympic Park.1 -
Having a football club there is so problematic - It was never the best option. What we need to remember is that West Ham has a famous ground that fully met their needs before all this. This is all about lining the pockets, from tax payers' pockets, of a couple of porn barons!4
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There will be tears alright but not in the multi-millionaire, high profile politician and self ingratiating press department...0
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Ssshh. Don't go giving them ideas, we'll be paying for that next.Raith_C_Chattonell said:I attended the Anniversary games and was also surprised at the route through the shopping centre. On returning to the station the large, obedient, family crowd was staggered by marshals to prevent crushing. I wondered how that would work if West Ham had just been stuffed 0 3 by Chelsea.
The Shopping centre and shoppers could’ve been better protected if a station had been built in or adjacent to the Olympic Park.2 -
The shopping centre was built in that location to deliberately "encourage" people visiting the Olympics to walk through it. Indeed the main routes from Stratford and Stratford International go right through the Westfield.Raith_C_Chattonell said:I attended the Anniversary games and was also surprised at the route through the shopping centre. On returning to the station the large, obedient, family crowd was staggered by marshals to prevent crushing. I wondered how that would work if West Ham had just been stuffed 0 3 by Chelsea.
The Shopping centre and shoppers could’ve been better protected if a station had been built in or adjacent to the Olympic Park.
There are a lot of railway lines in the area, hence a limited number of exit routes. You can go north towards Hackney Wick, and there was a route south towards West Ham station1 -
Has there been any trouble outside of the ground? All the reports seem to be from West Ham fans fighting themselves inside the stadium. There are plenty of stadium's in this country where opposing fans will come out towards the same exit (I'm sure we all know of one). I don't necessarily see this as a big deal as I'm sure for the high risk games they can keep them separated if need be or worst case keep the away fans behind in the stadium.0
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@PragueAddick Not sure if you saw the guardian yesterday, but there's a good bit about government procurement and the switch over from Airwave. Along the lines of what @Missed It has said; Airwave is now owned by a private equity group who charge a phenomenal fee for usage and licensing.
In true government fashion it looks like the acquisition process may be another balls up though..
I personally don't blame the police for refusing to operate without radio coverage though, it's a huge officer safety issue and I wouldn't want to be on duty in a stadium without efficient comms.
Going back a year or so, I know Huwai was mentioned as a potential government supplier for the equipment, but for security reasons this didn't have much support. There was a good article on the tech news site "The Register" about this.
To be honest, the whole situation reaks of the what happened to the NYFD after the WTC 1993 bombings. Essentially they discovered their radios were unable to operate in the WTC buildings, and spent 8 years requesting The Mayor to provide adequate equipment. This never happened, and sadly many of the NYFD losses on 9/11 were totally avoidable and came as a result of the firefighters not receiving messages warning them that building was likely to collapse and that they needed to evacuate ASAP.
It's a bit disturbing to see that 15 years later, London still has a landmark which is plagued by the same issues; especially considering Airwave is in use with The Met, LFB and LAS. There would be no way of coordinating any of the emergency services if the comms are failing for one, then surely they'll fail for all. I mentioned in the other thread, if armed plod are going to be deployed to football matches soon then it's clear that this is an immense issue in the current climate.4 -
Yes. You Tube footage of it kicking off with Watford outside the ground.colthe3rd said:Has there been any trouble outside of the ground? All the reports seem to be from West Ham fans fighting themselves inside the stadium. There are plenty of stadium's in this country where opposing fans will come out towards the same exit (I'm sure we all know of one). I don't necessarily see this as a big deal as I'm sure for the high risk games they can keep them separated if need be or worst case keep the away fans behind in the stadium.
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I don't understand why the police just don't use telephones.
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When was the last time you went a week making mobile calls in London without dropping at least one call? I don't think voice call reliability is any better than 20 years ago.Addickted said:I don't understand why the police just don't use telephones.
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In Mail today
West Ham and the owners of the London Stadium have appointed former Metropolitan Police Assistant Commissioner Chris Allison to help tackle crowd trouble at their new ground. Allison was a security adviser for the 2015 Rugby World Cup.
Good luck with that.
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"London Stadium landlords E20 today confirmed the appointment of Chris Allison CBE to work with London Stadium partners to make sure that the ‘safety and security of all those using the Stadium remains of the highest quality’.
An E20 Stadium LLP spokesperson said, “We have appointed Chris Allison CBE, a former Metropolitan Police Assistant Commissioner, to work with the London Stadium partners, London Stadium 185, West Ham United, LLDC and Newham Council to help make sure that the safety and security of all those using the Stadium remains of the highest quality."
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We, i.e. E20, not WHUFC, are paying the guy.
Read more at http://www.whufc.com/News/Articles/2016/September/15-September/E20-confirm-Chris-Allison-CBE-appointment#BoAi1Fk0hBUgcB5L.99
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So the Mail have tried to spin it .MountsfieldPark said:"London Stadium landlords E20 today confirmed the appointment of Chris Allison CBE to work with London Stadium partners to make sure that the ‘safety and security of all those using the Stadium remains of the highest quality’.
An E20 Stadium LLP spokesperson said, “We have appointed Chris Allison CBE, a former Metropolitan Police Assistant Commissioner, to work with the London Stadium partners, London Stadium 185, West Ham United, LLDC and Newham Council to help make sure that the safety and security of all those using the Stadium remains of the highest quality."
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We, i.e. E20, not WHUFC, are paying the guy.
Read more at http://www.whufc.com/News/Articles/2016/September/15-September/E20-confirm-Chris-Allison-CBE-appointment#BoAi1Fk0hBUgcB5L.991 -
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"West Ham seem aggrieved that they were not consulted more fully about how their new home would be run."...Oh do just feck off!swords_alive said:
I was always of the view that our beef was with those that negotiated the deal on the taxpayers behalf. But the more noises like this WHU make are turning me around to them going beyond simply negotiating a commercially advantageous deal and abusing their position to a point where it becomes, almost, morally unacceptable.
They cannot argue with any credibility whatsoever that, having got themselves an absolutely ridiculous level of lease payments and negotiated stewarding to be provided by the landlord as part of that, that they should now have ANY say in how that stewarding is delivered beyond ensuring that statutory safety standards are met.
If WHU want extra stewarding to help control a situation of their own making (in poor management of the transition from UP) then stick their hand in their own pocket or shut the feck up.22 -
Same with Bournemouth toored_murph said:
Yes. You Tube footage of it kicking off with Watford outside the ground.colthe3rd said:Has there been any trouble outside of the ground? All the reports seem to be from West Ham fans fighting themselves inside the stadium. There are plenty of stadium's in this country where opposing fans will come out towards the same exit (I'm sure we all know of one). I don't necessarily see this as a big deal as I'm sure for the high risk games they can keep them separated if need be or worst case keep the away fans behind in the stadium.
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This is a very valid point. The truth about agreements that aren't win/win is that they are always a lose. If one party is struggling, there will always be problems. If it's the service provider on the lose side, you shouldn't be surprised when the service is shite.LoOkOuT said:Bullshit you can't blame them, meaning West Ham SMT... You know when you're ripping someone off, whether it's your fault or not. You can argue about what that might mean, but when it's the taxpayer and you're using your years of experience to exploit the naive negotiators on a massive public works project, then you're a special piece of shit.
EDIT: As if to prove my point, that Guardian article says "Under the deal LS185 is responsible for all matchday costs, including stewarding and policing. With Brady having struck a characteristically hard bargain, there is an underlying irritation at being blamed for the latest problems."
For 'characteristically hard bargain' read win/lose. The subsequent relationship souring is inevitable, and as soon as the relationship goes, you can kiss goodbye to a happy journey. I would imagine West Ham are right now threatening to withhold their rent.2 -
This is a sad reality and 100% correct.rikofold said:
This is a very valid point. The truth about agreements that aren't win/win is that they are always a lose. If one party is struggling, there will always be problems. If it's the service provider on the lose side, you shouldn't be surprised when the service is shite.LoOkOuT said:Bullshit you can't blame them, meaning West Ham SMT... You know when you're ripping someone off, whether it's your fault or not. You can argue about what that might mean, but when it's the taxpayer and you're using your years of experience to exploit the naive negotiators on a massive public works project, then you're a special piece of shit.
EDIT: As if to prove my point, that Guardian article says "Under the deal LS185 is responsible for all matchday costs, including stewarding and policing. With Brady having struck a characteristically hard bargain, there is an underlying irritation at being blamed for the latest problems."
For 'characteristically hard bargain' read win/lose. The subsequent relationship souring is inevitable, and as soon as the relationship goes, you can kiss goodbye to a happy journey. I would imagine West Ham are right now threatening to withhold their rent.
Win/lose is spot on. I think it's tough enough to secure a commercial agreement which allows both sides some room to deliver. This whole sorry saga seems to be about a desperate attempt for those steering the fate of the Olympic legacy to get out from under the shit that was created by trying to bring closure to that legacy. Not a strong negotiating position.1 -
Speaking to a Spurs supporting mate who had the pleasure of watching their game versus Monaco at Wembley last week. I asked him what the atmosphere was like what with it not being in their usual stadium, but a different stadium that is much larger than their own and how they got around the difficult situation of ensuring that those who wanted to stand a sing were grouped together and those who didn't could enjoy the game in their own way.Addickted said:West Ham have already been threatened with the removal of the safety certificate unless they make significant improvements over the next four weeks - including re-siting fans to designated areas to prevent more issues from the old guard and the newer prawn sarnie brigade. It appears the family area is actually half way up a stand with some choice language being experienced by the children present from all areas around them.
Apparently Spurs sent out details to season tickets holders saying that if you usually prefer to stand at matches and make noise then purchase tickets in 5 designated blocks.
This meant that those who would want to sit for the duration of the match could find tickets elsewhere, and those 40,000 or so Spurs fans who didn't regularly attend matches would fill up the remaining seats after existing season ticket holders had chosen theres.
Apparently the place as bouncing before kick off, and it would appear that from a commercial point of view the game went off without a hitch. It's amazing what you can achieve with a little common sense and a purpose built football stadium.
Oh and he also told me the atmosphere died down after the first 15 minutes...I wonder why?11 -
http://www.kumb.com/story.php?id=130322
Bonzo has spoken about the stadium as well, he doesn't seem impressed! The full comments are quite interesting, Sir Trevor spoke as well"I went to the Bournemouth game and I was sat behind the media," he said. "It just seemed miles away from the pitch and you couldn't get the atmosphere up there.
Amazingly Billy Bonds is 70! The last time I saw him on the pitch was a charity game at The Valley when he was in his late 40s and ran around like a teenager.
"Personally speaking, I don't think it's a football ground. I can honestly say that. That's not to say I didn't moan about it when we were moving, but I didn't share a lot of opinions about it because we were going to move anyway, so it didn't matter.6 -
Soooo, West Ham v Chelsea in next round of the League Cup ......
Better sort out that segregation!!!11 -
Thought exactly the same as soon as i saw the draw. Baptism of fire for the new security team0
