Will Trump become President?

ValleyGary said:

redlanered said:

ValleyGary said:

SDAddick said:

ValleyGary said:

SDAddick said:

ValleyGary said:

bobmunro said:

What is really disturbing for me is the way this thread is turning into the Brexit thread - all 'you're a racist' and 'no I'm not, you're a lefty Guardian reader'.

Forget politics, forget views on immigration or the people who have been left behind, forget left or right, forget revolution, forget the little man speaking, forget working-class, middle-class, upper-class, under-class, forget democracy, forget totalitarianism and so on ......

Remember, Trump is a liar and cheat, a business failure, a chancer who took his moment, an altogether despicable individual. He's in it for the little man queuing up on food lines in the rust belt? Is he bollox.

Absolutely. He's a cretin, like 95% of the rest of the people involved in politics, which is why he will fit in well.

I don't know if I'd go with 95%, but I do largely agree. That whole "desire for change" thing sure does feel a bit odd though, don't you think?

Yeah pretty much, almost as strange as seeing college students crying and needing counceling. The last 24 hours all very OTT.

Those crazy college kids and their completely unreasonable fears of being the victims of hate crimes.

We heard the same stuff about foreigners being strung up in the street after Brexit results, mostly complete fabricated bollocks

Interesting use of the word 'mostly' - not sure how you have measured that, but regardless, you are implying that at least some of it is not made-up.

I think here in the UK these incidents are so far mercifully rare (which is not to say that we should ignore it all..), but you never know in the USofA. This is a place that really did lynch people (in my lifetime) just for their skin colour. And they have guns... and significant concentrations of real whackos in pockets.

I hope your words don't come back to haunt us VG...

A few brain dead dickheads will use yesterday's results as fuel to act like racists arse holes, but the complete overreaction on social media yesterday was insane. It was like people trying to outdo each other on the extreme scale, almost begging for retweets.

SuedeAdidas said:

Leuth said:

Like, I'm asking for claritShould I just not ask for clarification on how society should be run? And blindly accept what's put before me?

Leuth said:

J BLOCK said:

Leuth said:

Leuth said:

Some questions:

1. What is 'the end of social engineering'?

2. How can you constitutionally end political correctness? Wouldn't that be like ending politeness, or slang? I suppose you can term certain phrases hate-crimes. Is that what you'd do?

3. How secure will the borders be? And how to enforce it?

4. What law and what order?

5. Indigenous has a few grey areas. How do you define it?

6. Given our media is already largely right-wing, do you mean that fair and balanced means greater left-wing presence? Don't answer this one.

7. How do you 'teach conservatism'? And how are schools currently 'teaching socialism'?

Someone gonna take this btw?

No, turn it in.

But if the ideal society isn't explained then I'll have to assume the worst, and we all know what that means

Give it a rest mate. Nobody gives a flying fuck for what you might assume.

You are a proper string.

Leuth said:

SuedeAdidas said:

Leuth said:

Like, I'm asking for claritShould I just not ask for clarification on how society should be run? And blindly accept what's put before me?

Leuth said:

J BLOCK said:

Leuth said:

Leuth said:

Some questions:

1. What is 'the end of social engineering'?

2. How can you constitutionally end political correctness? Wouldn't that be like ending politeness, or slang? I suppose you can term certain phrases hate-crimes. Is that what you'd do?

3. How secure will the borders be? And how to enforce it?

4. What law and what order?

5. Indigenous has a few grey areas. How do you define it?

6. Given our media is already largely right-wing, do you mean that fair and balanced means greater left-wing presence? Don't answer this one.

7. How do you 'teach conservatism'? And how are schools currently 'teaching socialism'?

Someone gonna take this btw?

No, turn it in.

But if the ideal society isn't explained then I'll have to assume the worst, and we all know what that means

Give it a rest mate. Nobody gives a flying fuck for what you might assume.

You are a proper string.

I'm not giving it a rest, just for you.

Does anyone want to help answer my seven questions for q_a?

LuckyReds said:

SDAddick said:

ValleyGary said:

redlanered said:

ValleyGary said:

SDAddick said:

ValleyGary said:

SDAddick said:

ValleyGary said:

bobmunro said:

What is really disturbing for me is the way this thread is turning into the Brexit thread - all 'you're a racist' and 'no I'm not, you're a lefty Guardian reader'.

Forget politics, forget views on immigration or the people who have been left behind, forget left or right, forget revolution, forget the little man speaking, forget working-class, middle-class, upper-class, under-class, forget democracy, forget totalitarianism and so on ......

Remember, Trump is a liar and cheat, a business failure, a chancer who took his moment, an altogether despicable individual. He's in it for the little man queuing up on food lines in the rust belt? Is he bollox.

Absolutely. He's a cretin, like 95% of the rest of the people involved in politics, which is why he will fit in well.

I don't know if I'd go with 95%, but I do largely agree. That whole "desire for change" thing sure does feel a bit odd though, don't you think?

Yeah pretty much, almost as strange as seeing college students crying and needing counceling. The last 24 hours all very OTT.

Those crazy college kids and their completely unreasonable fears of being the victims of hate crimes.

We heard the same stuff about foreigners being strung up in the street after Brexit results, mostly complete fabricated bollocks

Interesting use of the word 'mostly' - not sure how you have measured that, but regardless, you are implying that at least some of it is not made-up.

I think here in the UK these incidents are so far mercifully rare (which is not to say that we should ignore it all..), but you never know in the USofA. This is a place that really did lynch people (in my lifetime) just for their skin colour. And they have guns... and significant concentrations of real whackos in pockets.

I hope your words don't come back to haunt us VG...

A few brain dead dickheads will use yesterday's results as fuel to act like racists arse holes, but the complete overreaction on social media yesterday was insane. It was like people trying to outdo each other on the extreme scale, almost begging for retweets.

Tweeting sadness IS NOT equal to hate speech. Legally. Morally. Or in any way I can think.

To be entirely fair to @ValleyGary, watching some of the election hashtags showed some horrific comments about "white people". A quick search for "white people" would most likely show hate speech on the level of a quick search for "black people".

LuckyReds said:

SDAddick said:

ValleyGary said:

redlanered said:

ValleyGary said:

SDAddick said:

ValleyGary said:

SDAddick said:

ValleyGary said:

bobmunro said:

What is really disturbing for me is the way this thread is turning into the Brexit thread - all 'you're a racist' and 'no I'm not, you're a lefty Guardian reader'.

Forget politics, forget views on immigration or the people who have been left behind, forget left or right, forget revolution, forget the little man speaking, forget working-class, middle-class, upper-class, under-class, forget democracy, forget totalitarianism and so on ......

Remember, Trump is a liar and cheat, a business failure, a chancer who took his moment, an altogether despicable individual. He's in it for the little man queuing up on food lines in the rust belt? Is he bollox.

Absolutely. He's a cretin, like 95% of the rest of the people involved in politics, which is why he will fit in well.

I don't know if I'd go with 95%, but I do largely agree. That whole "desire for change" thing sure does feel a bit odd though, don't you think?

Yeah pretty much, almost as strange as seeing college students crying and needing counceling. The last 24 hours all very OTT.

Those crazy college kids and their completely unreasonable fears of being the victims of hate crimes.

We heard the same stuff about foreigners being strung up in the street after Brexit results, mostly complete fabricated bollocks

Interesting use of the word 'mostly' - not sure how you have measured that, but regardless, you are implying that at least some of it is not made-up.

I think here in the UK these incidents are so far mercifully rare (which is not to say that we should ignore it all..), but you never know in the USofA. This is a place that really did lynch people (in my lifetime) just for their skin colour. And they have guns... and significant concentrations of real whackos in pockets.

I hope your words don't come back to haunt us VG...

A few brain dead dickheads will use yesterday's results as fuel to act like racists arse holes, but the complete overreaction on social media yesterday was insane. It was like people trying to outdo each other on the extreme scale, almost begging for retweets.

Tweeting sadness IS NOT equal to hate speech. Legally. Morally. Or in any way I can think.

To be entirely fair to @ValleyGary, watching some of the election hashtags showed some horrific comments about "white people". A quick search for "white people" would most likely show hate speech on the level of a quick search for "black people".

SDAddick said:

LuckyReds said:

I said it after similar reports back in June, and I'll say it again: those who are partaking in such actions were most likely doing so before.

No one woke up as an average human being, went to a polling station and voted Trump, and then walked out a flaming racist with a burning hatred in their heart. These feelings were there last week, and they're still there this week. No change.

Sure, the result may have provided them with a means of legitimising their views.. But is it not just as scary to think that those people were walking around in plain sight harbouring that hatred all along? I'd rather be able to see my foe than to contemplate whether they're sitting next to me, seething. Once you see the problem you can confront it.

Would a Hillary victory have seen these same individuals going around randomly hugging minorities and drawing hearts on random cars with lipstick?! Of course not. They'd just be the ones on Twitter now... But blaming blacks and Latinos for destroying their country. Just like the large number of "fuck white people" and "I hope white people die" tweets were posted yesterday. Are we going to confront those views too? Or are we going to label all Hillary supporters as racist and claim that they all hate white people? Hate begets hate.

It's classic causation vs correlation: America isn't in a state because Trump got voted in. Trump got voted in because America is in a state. A small percentage of people didn't become racist because they voted Trump, a small percentage of people voted Trump because they're racist. (Whilst I'm sure, like Brexit, a larger percentage voted for different reasons.)

What you're seeing is the result of social issues that were bubbling away for many years, not just since the election results came in. I've already said it once, but I'll reiterate: it's a traversty that those issues developed so intensely and were allowed to become so strong that this now happens. The blame for that doesn't lie in the past 12 months, it goes back much deeper.

I agree largely, with one big exception, I think people held those BELIEFS beforehand, but what I think we're seeing is those beliefs turned in to ACTIONS. And that is what is scary.

ValleyGary said:

LuckyReds said:

SDAddick said:

ValleyGary said:

redlanered said:

ValleyGary said:

SDAddick said:

ValleyGary said:

SDAddick said:

ValleyGary said:

bobmunro said:

What is really disturbing for me is the way this thread is turning into the Brexit thread - all 'you're a racist' and 'no I'm not, you're a lefty Guardian reader'.

Forget politics, forget views on immigration or the people who have been left behind, forget left or right, forget revolution, forget the little man speaking, forget working-class, middle-class, upper-class, under-class, forget democracy, forget totalitarianism and so on ......

Remember, Trump is a liar and cheat, a business failure, a chancer who took his moment, an altogether despicable individual. He's in it for the little man queuing up on food lines in the rust belt? Is he bollox.

Absolutely. He's a cretin, like 95% of the rest of the people involved in politics, which is why he will fit in well.

I don't know if I'd go with 95%, but I do largely agree. That whole "desire for change" thing sure does feel a bit odd though, don't you think?

Yeah pretty much, almost as strange as seeing college students crying and needing counceling. The last 24 hours all very OTT.

Those crazy college kids and their completely unreasonable fears of being the victims of hate crimes.

We heard the same stuff about foreigners being strung up in the street after Brexit results, mostly complete fabricated bollocks

Interesting use of the word 'mostly' - not sure how you have measured that, but regardless, you are implying that at least some of it is not made-up.

I think here in the UK these incidents are so far mercifully rare (which is not to say that we should ignore it all..), but you never know in the USofA. This is a place that really did lynch people (in my lifetime) just for their skin colour. And they have guns... and significant concentrations of real whackos in pockets.

I hope your words don't come back to haunt us VG...

A few brain dead dickheads will use yesterday's results as fuel to act like racists arse holes, but the complete overreaction on social media yesterday was insane. It was like people trying to outdo each other on the extreme scale, almost begging for retweets.

Tweeting sadness IS NOT equal to hate speech. Legally. Morally. Or in any way I can think.

To be entirely fair to @ValleyGary, watching some of the election hashtags showed some horrific comments about "white people". A quick search for "white people" would most likely show hate speech on the level of a quick search for "black people".

Both sides at it yesterday on social media.

https://twitter.com/bnfvd/status/796418755895164932

People need to get a grip.

shine166 said:

ME14addick said:

People in this country ARE being affected by immigration - my husband has experience of this working in the kitchen of a pub/restaurant.

Before Romanians were allowed free access, my husband was paid well above the minimum wage, as it was difficult to get people to do the job. By paying above the minimum wage they were able to recruit British workers.

When Romanians were allowed free access to the labour market my husband's wages did not increase until it was forced on his employer with this year's increase.

For 4 years he had no wage increase. The Romanians were happy to work for minimum wage and whenever anyone left, one of their friends or family was waiting for a job and it wasn't necessary to advertise. Consequently a British worker had no chance of being employed.

All the other employees doing the same work as my husband speak very little English and when they work together, speak their own language and my husband feels like a foreigner in his own country.

At the age of 62 it is not easy for him to find alternative employment so he is stuck with it for now.

With the greatest respect, it's not a Romanians fault that your old man is doing kP work in his 60s. There's part of a generation that presumed they had jobs for life so didn't bother learning skills or trades. My stepdad is that Same and finds himself scanning bags at a airport or doing delivery work.

ValleyGary said:

colthe3rd said:

Is it just me that dislikes the "If that was a white person making that comment..." nonsense? Racism is racism and any sane person can see that. You don't need to point it out. It's all over social media and going there to prove a point is like going to a Britain First rally to prove white people are racist.

Agree, it didn't need mentioning but then it's not my tweet.

SDAddick said:

It's disconcerting to me that we're now talking about tweets against white people and white people are like "oh that's terrible" but we have people gratifying swastikas and white power messages and that ones seems to have just gone right past you.

ValleyGary said:

just so we are clear on this, acting like a racist cunt is only acceptable when you've got real reason to be?

ValleyGary said:

SDAddick said:

It's disconcerting to me that we're now talking about tweets against white people and white people are like "oh that's terrible" but we have people gratifying swastikas and white power messages and that ones seems to have just gone right past you.

No that wasn't the point. The point was that theres extreme bollocks from both sides because of the result. People need to get a grip.