If you want to vote for more of the same when there is an opportunity for a real choice for the first time in memory, well go and do so. You may want to hit yourself over the head with a shovel too - if it gives you pleasure. Being part of trying to make things better - that's what we should all be doing. May is a terrible prime minister, she is cynical and plays to her crowd but there is no substance behind her. She isn't slick like some and is detached and dislikeable. God help us if we vote her in with an increased majority.
If she gets a reduced majority, that will be the end of her because of the reasons for calling the election, and hopefully the Tories will find somebody better. But I haven't given up on Corbyn yet. He has enough days to continue to press the message and people may just wake up on polling day and decide, let's try to make a better country.
As has been pointed out, the only numbers in the Tory Manifesto are the page numbers, but we should give them some credit for putting them in the right order!
Dippenhall and Greenie please advise something positive from seven years of Tory rule. May called the election on Brexit issues but she won't say wether my German friend Heidi will have to return home, will CAP grants to farmers be maintained, employment laws protected, fishing rights changed and a thousand other issues. Uncosted vague promises. She is winging it.
In my opinion calling the referendum was a positive and I can also say ive never been out of work under Tory government, my industry is doing well and under Corbyns I can only see people being struck off due to the over zealous tax's imposed on business owners, that coupled with the £10 minimum wage concerns me hugely and I predict we'll see a lot of people out of work..
Although I'm not voting Tory so not sure why you've asked me that.
As has been pointed out, the only numbers in the Tory Manifesto are the page numbers, but we should give them some credit for putting them in the right order!
This was one of the things that really pissed me off, the audacity to not even attempt to cost their pledges is an absolute joke
If you want to vote for more of the same when there is an opportunity for a real choice for the first time in memory, well go and do so. You may want to hit yourself over the head with a shovel too - if it gives you pleasure. Being part of trying to make things better - that's what we should all be doing. May is a terrible prime minister, she is cynical and plays to her crowd but there is no substance behind her. She isn't slick like some and is detached and dislikeable. God help us if we vote her in with an increased majority.
If she gets a reduced majority, that will be the end of her because of the reasons for calling the election, and hopefully the Tories will find somebody better. But I haven't given up on Corbyn yet. He has enough days to continue to press the message and people may just wake up on polling day and decide, let's try to make a better country.
This is what gets me - at the start of this election campaign the Tories were running it like a presidential campaign - her name appeared in big letters, with "Conservatives" either not on the poster at all or in smaller writing. They have re-launched their campaign 3 times now and seem to have moved away from this, having seen how badly she's performing. Have you noticed too, how the "strong and stable" slogan is not being used? She's asking us to vote for her but she could be dumped the week after the election if it doesn't go well. Just as well they've stopped using that slogan.
If you want to vote for more of the same when there is an opportunity for a real choice for the first time in memory, well go and do so. You may want to hit yourself over the head with a shovel too - if it gives you pleasure. Being part of trying to make things better - that's what we should all be doing. May is a terrible prime minister, she is cynical and plays to her crowd but there is no substance behind her. She isn't slick like some and is detached and dislikeable. God help us if we vote her in with an increased majority.
If she gets a reduced majority, that will be the end of her because of the reasons for calling the election, and hopefully the Tories will find somebody better. But I haven't given up on Corbyn yet. He has enough days to continue to press the message and people may just wake up on polling day and decide, let's try to make a better country.
It all comes down to if you think the vote for Labour and a Labour government as proposed will actually lead to a 'better country' or not. I'm less than convinced, that said if there was a 'none of the above' on the voting paper I'd almost certainly tick that as I'd always vote as feel it's our duty to.
Although it helps, you don't need a government to tell you what to do to make for a better country, 1,000's of people everyday do just that, whether that's in their profession, voluntary work, whatever it may be every individual can make a difference.
Dippenhall and Greenie please advise something positive from seven years of Tory rule. May called the election on Brexit issues but she won't say wether my German friend Heidi will have to return home, will CAP grants to farmers be maintained, employment laws protected, fishing rights changed and a thousand other issues. Uncosted vague promises. She is winging it.
In my opinion calling the referendum was a positive and I can also say ive never been out of work under Tory government, my industry is doing well and under Corbyns I can only see people being struck off due to the over zealous tax's imposed on business owners, that coupled with the £10 minimum wage concerns me hugely and I predict we'll see a lot of people out of work..
Although I'm not voting Tory so not sure why you've asked me that.
Of all the responses you could have given, that is the most bizarre. The Brexit campaign was launched by the Tory party due to threats from UKIP. It featured outright lies in the campaign, mainly from a man who is still a cabinet minister. Did we vote for a hard or soft Brexit? Did people voting leave know we'd lose trade agreements with Europe? Did they even know we had free trade agrrements? Has May said what will happen to EU citizens here, EU farming grants, EU employment laws? Vote May cos she is strong and stable despite two major policy U turns in as many weeks. Have you considered supporting Millwall?
Wonder if Labour would be polling higher or lower with a more 'conventional/palatable' leader? Is Corbyn an asset or liability? At the start of the campaign I would have said the latter but now I am not sure. What do people think?
Dippenhall and Greenie please advise something positive from seven years of Tory rule. May called the election on Brexit issues but she won't say wether my German friend Heidi will have to return home, will CAP grants to farmers be maintained, employment laws protected, fishing rights changed and a thousand other issues. Uncosted vague promises. She is winging it.
In my opinion calling the referendum was a positive and I can also say ive never been out of work under Tory government, my industry is doing well and under Corbyns I can only see people being struck off due to the over zealous tax's imposed on business owners, that coupled with the £10 minimum wage concerns me hugely and I predict we'll see a lot of people out of work..
Although I'm not voting Tory so not sure why you've asked me that.
Of all the responses you could have given, that is the most bizarre. The Brexit campaign was launched by the Tory party due to threats from UKIP. It featured outright lies in the campaign, mainly from a man who is still a cabinet minister. Did we vote for a hard or soft Brexit? Did people voting leave know we'd lose trade agreements with Europe? Did they even know we had free trade agrrements? Has May said what will happen to EU citizens here, EU farming grants, EU employment laws? Vote May cos she is strong and stable despite two major policy U turns in as many weeks. Have you considered supporting Millwall?
All very true, at the last election didn't UKIP get something like 8-9m votes? Had the Conservative party running scared. I stand by the mantra that I trust any of our political parties about as much as I do our football club owners having 'learnt lessons'....... I'll believe any of it when I actually see it and I've seen nothing for years!!
Dippenhall and Greenie please advise something positive from seven years of Tory rule. May called the election on Brexit issues but she won't say wether my German friend Heidi will have to return home, will CAP grants to farmers be maintained, employment laws protected, fishing rights changed and a thousand other issues. Uncosted vague promises. She is winging it.
In my opinion calling the referendum was a positive and I can also say ive never been out of work under Tory government, my industry is doing well and under Corbyns I can only see people being struck off due to the over zealous tax's imposed on business owners, that coupled with the £10 minimum wage concerns me hugely and I predict we'll see a lot of people out of work..
Although I'm not voting Tory so not sure why you've asked me that.
Of all the responses you could have given, that is the most bizarre. The Brexit campaign was launched by the Tory party due to threats from UKIP. It featured outright lies in the campaign, mainly from a man who is still a cabinet minister. Did we vote for a hard or soft Brexit? Did people voting leave know we'd lose trade agreements with Europe? Yes Did they even know we had free trade agrrements? Yes Has May said what will happen to EU citizens here yes EU farming grants - I'll give you that. EU employment laws? Yes Vote May cos she is strong and stable despite two major policy U turns in as many weeks. Have you considered supporting Millwall?
I said I'm not voting Tory, have you considered reading my post properly?
It's safe to say you and I are at opposite ends on the spectrum regarding Brexit, I think it's a great thing that the politicians gave the public a choice and are carrying out the choice. I'm excited for the potential this country could have if we do things right and I'm proud we took a proper chance to handle our own future, you're obviously worried and I understand and respect that.
Lots to consider there as usual. I'll be fact checking a lot of your assertions with my Swedish mate. dont worry, he is far to the right of me, and is CEO of Haki, a scaffolding company. Nevertheless....
In the meantime, i am glad you brought up the issue of economic predictions of Remainers. I tried to explain ad nauseam that no sensible person with any economic background was predicting instant recession. My personal prediction was that we would see U.K. growth slowing to a rate lower than that in leading euro zone countries. ( wheats for most of last year it was outperforming most, as much touted by Bojo and co.
In that regard, what then are your comments about the Q1 GDP growth figures for,the U.K., and for the euro zone?
Never disputed the possibility of Brexit causing a short term drop in growth. Consumption is what drives our economy and anything that reduces consumer spending will hit output. There would be no double standards if I voted for Brexit, Corbyn and a recession.
If following Brexit, (the dumbest decision in the history of the World I am reliably informed), results in a 3% increase in unit cost of production, or even 10% on some goods, by way of EU tariffs, and is a disaster for UK profitability, can someone tell me why a 7% hit on actual profits themselves will have no impact on UK business that concerns a Corbyn Remain voter. Answers on the back of stamp.
Who will benefit from the 10% tariffs? The EU economy.
Who will benefit from a 7% increase in corporation tax? The UK economy.
The increase in corporation tax will help fund government investment in education, training, NHS and transport infrastructure to name just a few things. Government investment in big ticket items like these leads to increased GDP in the longer term, increased consumer demand and bigger profits for UK companies.
The EU consumer will pay 10% more for UK imports to increase EU inflation, or we export to countries that want to trade with us, that's good for the EU?
A 7% corporation tax does not help the economy unless the money government takes away from businesses, that otherwise would have invested, is better invested to improve output and is not pissed up the wall. It's not the motives that are necessarily wrong, it's the idea Corbyn and Abbott and McDonnell have a have a scooby doo how to achieve their aims.
Much more likely is an alliance between the Labour government Unite and Momentum to nationalise everything, fuel wage inflation without productivity gains, burn all the money they raise from tax and borrowing, run out of cash and then blame business and the rich for making the country bankrupt.
In a funny peculiar way I would like to see Corbyn get elected and sit back and watch the fun.
I will not vote Tory out of a genetic abnormality, but through a simple process of elimination of the parties least likely to destroy the economy. That's ignoring the Labour party led by chancers who have spent their attention seeking political careers as "radicals" and now in the uncomfortable position of having to justify and explain their bizarre past activities. If May is winging it Labour are flying on a wing and a prayer.
Wonder if Labour would be polling higher or lower with a more 'conventional/palatable' leader? Is Corbyn an asset or liability? At the start of the campaign I would have said the latter but now I am not sure. What do people think?
Good question. Personally i quite like some of his polices but not him. If Labour had a leader who appealed to the masses and had the same policies as Corbyn I believe this election would be very close
Wonder if Labour would be polling higher or lower with a more 'conventional/palatable' leader? Is Corbyn an asset or liability? At the start of the campaign I would have said the latter but now I am not sure. What do people think?
Asset I'd say. Without him the manifesto wouldn't be the way it is and I don't think people would see as much of a clear cut choice as they are seeing now. "They're all the same" would be heard a lot I'd imagine.
Obviously some are steering clear purely because of him but I think a lot more are considering voting Labour purely for their policies.
Wonder if Labour would be polling higher or lower with a more 'conventional/palatable' leader? Is Corbyn an asset or liability? At the start of the campaign I would have said the latter but now I am not sure. What do people think?
Lower IMO unless you mean a charismatic leader who doesn't exist within the labour party at present.
Wonder if Labour would be polling higher or lower with a more 'conventional/palatable' leader? Is Corbyn an asset or liability? At the start of the campaign I would have said the latter but now I am not sure. What do people think?
If David Milliband was the leader and the shadow cabinet were similar to the pre Corbyn era, I think they could have won, with their policies.
Wonder if Labour would be polling higher or lower with a more 'conventional/palatable' leader? Is Corbyn an asset or liability? At the start of the campaign I would have said the latter but now I am not sure. What do people think?
If David Milliband was the leader and the shadow cabinet were similar to the pre Corbyn era, I think they could have won, with their policies.
No chance with Corbyn, McDonnell & Abbott.
If David Milliband was leader of the Labour party and he had better people along side him than Abbott there is no way that May would have had the confidence to call an early election
Wonder if Labour would be polling higher or lower with a more 'conventional/palatable' leader? Is Corbyn an asset or liability? At the start of the campaign I would have said the latter but now I am not sure. What do people think?
If David Milliband was the leader and the shadow cabinet were similar to the pre Corbyn era, I think they could have won, with their policies.
No chance with Corbyn, McDonnell & Abbott.
If David Milliband was leader of the Labour party and he had better people along side him than Abbott there is no way that May would have had the confidence to call an early election
Won't be a popular point on here but May and Rudd have been running a country and an election campaign during these past difficult days. Corbyn and Abbott have only needed to run their campaign and both on specific days of new policy initiatives where they should have been fully clued up and focussed have massively fouled up. Doesn't bode well if they were in government.
No lover of the tories but they have my vote. If David Milliband or Andy burnham had been in charge it could have been a different story.
Wonder if Labour would be polling higher or lower with a more 'conventional/palatable' leader? Is Corbyn an asset or liability? At the start of the campaign I would have said the latter but now I am not sure. What do people think?
If David Milliband was the leader and the shadow cabinet were similar to the pre Corbyn era, I think they could have won, with their policies.
No chance with Corbyn, McDonnell & Abbott.
If David Milliband was leader of the Labour party and he had better people along side him than Abbott there is no way that May would have had the confidence to call an early election
Because she would have been the shadow home affairs minister.
Wonder if Labour would be polling higher or lower with a more 'conventional/palatable' leader? Is Corbyn an asset or liability? At the start of the campaign I would have said the latter but now I am not sure. What do people think?
In what way is he a hypocrite and May not? And in what way does her bench have quality?
On record that Corbyn has bullied his backbenchers into voting the way he instructs when his record as a backbencher voting against the whip is totally unbelievable. Screams hypocrisy to me.
His Home Secretary should he win will be Diane Abbott and chancellor John McDonnell. Both of whom are poor choices in my opinion. As for conservative front bench they are not any better.
With you all the way on Abbott but McDonnell seems at least OK.
McDonnell might look like someone's favourite uncle but he is an outright Trot. What's worse is that he now won't admit or let on exactly just how extreme his views are.
My problem with Corbyn is this: The manifesto is not hard left at all in a European context. But that is where he comes from. Him. Abbott and McDonnell. I've seen the hard left close -up, thank you very much and I detest them as much as I detest the hard right Tories. The hard left disguises its true intentions until it gains power. The hard left took control of the Labour party in the mid 80s and Liverpool is the place where you saw the result in practice. It took Neil Kinnock to root them out and John Smith to finish the job. "Hard" anything leads to authoritarianism, corruption and intimidation. It ought to have no place in British politics.
Of course there are many young people (on CL too) who have no idea what I am on about. But Corbyn is older than me. I remember him from those days. I don't believe for one minute he or McDonnell have changed. Abbott has the further disadvantage of being thick. That "change of hairstyle" comment was just crass.
Yet unfortunately, he will count my vote for Clive Efford as a vote for him. And if he keeps her majority down, we will be stuck with him and the entire Momentum crew (for which read Soshulist Workah) as the main opposition for five years. What a grim scenario.
I used to run with the Revolutionary Communist Group (about 35 years ago) so trust me when I say that Cobyn is not hard left. He is soft left it is just that our politics have moved so far to the right he appears hard left merely on the virtue of standing still.
Incidentally I am now quite sure that I was the only member of the RCG who was not an undercover officer. I am not sure membership ever got over 15 mind.
In what way is he a hypocrite and May not? And in what way does her bench have quality?
On record that Corbyn has bullied his backbenchers into voting the way he instructs when his record as a backbencher voting against the whip is totally unbelievable. Screams hypocrisy to me.
His Home Secretary should he win will be Diane Abbott and chancellor John McDonnell. Both of whom are poor choices in my opinion. As for conservative front bench they are not any better.
With you all the way on Abbott but McDonnell seems at least OK.
McDonnell might look like someone's favourite uncle but he is an outright Trot. What's worse is that he now won't admit or let on exactly just how extreme his views are.
I am a bit pissed so will no doubt regret this later but I like Lev Bronstein. Who else has been in a Stranglers song, got killed with an ice pick and had an affair with Frida Kahlo. We need mor of that kind of colour in British politics.
Yeah, probably not the best idea to out yourself as a Communist, even if no longer Revolutionary .
35 years ago I was also slim, had hair and didn't need glasses.
Wonder if Labour would be polling higher or lower with a more 'conventional/palatable' leader? Is Corbyn an asset or liability? At the start of the campaign I would have said the latter but now I am not sure. What do people think?
If David Milliband was the leader and the shadow cabinet were similar to the pre Corbyn era, I think they could have won, with their policies.
No chance with Corbyn, McDonnell & Abbott.
If David Milliband was leader of the Labour party and he had better people along side him than Abbott there is no way that May would have had the confidence to call an early election
Because she would have been the shadow home affairs minister.
In what way is he a hypocrite and May not? And in what way does her bench have quality?
On record that Corbyn has bullied his backbenchers into voting the way he instructs when his record as a backbencher voting against the whip is totally unbelievable. Screams hypocrisy to me.
His Home Secretary should he win will be Diane Abbott and chancellor John McDonnell. Both of whom are poor choices in my opinion. As for conservative front bench they are not any better.
With you all the way on Abbott but McDonnell seems at least OK.
McDonnell might look like someone's favourite uncle but he is an outright Trot. What's worse is that he now won't admit or let on exactly just how extreme his views are.
My problem with Corbyn is this: The manifesto is not hard left at all in a European context. But that is where he comes from. Him. Abbott and McDonnell. I've seen the hard left close -up, thank you very much and I detest them as much as I detest the hard right Tories. The hard left disguises its true intentions until it gains power. The hard left took control of the Labour party in the mid 80s and Liverpool is the place where you saw the result in practice. It took Neil Kinnock to root them out and John Smith to finish the job. "Hard" anything leads to authoritarianism, corruption and intimidation. It ought to have no place in British politics.
Of course there are many young people (on CL too) who have no idea what I am on about. But Corbyn is older than me. I remember him from those days. I don't believe for one minute he or McDonnell have changed. Abbott has the further disadvantage of being thick. That "change of hairstyle" comment was just crass.
Yet unfortunately, he will count my vote for Clive Efford as a vote for him. And if he keeps her majority down, we will be stuck with him and the entire Momentum crew (for which read Soshulist Workah) as the main opposition for five years. What a grim scenario.
I used to run with the Revolutionary Communist Group (about 35 years ago) so trust me when I say that Cobyn is not hard left. He is soft left it is just that our politics have moved so far to the right he appears hard left merely on the virtue of standing still.
Incidentally I am now quite sure that I was the only member of the RCG who was not an undercover officer. I am not sure membership ever got over 15 mind.
In what way is he a hypocrite and May not? And in what way does her bench have quality?
On record that Corbyn has bullied his backbenchers into voting the way he instructs when his record as a backbencher voting against the whip is totally unbelievable. Screams hypocrisy to me.
His Home Secretary should he win will be Diane Abbott and chancellor John McDonnell. Both of whom are poor choices in my opinion. As for conservative front bench they are not any better.
With you all the way on Abbott but McDonnell seems at least OK.
McDonnell might look like someone's favourite uncle but he is an outright Trot. What's worse is that he now won't admit or let on exactly just how extreme his views are.
I am a bit pissed so will no doubt regret this later but I like Lev Bronstein. Who else has been in a Stranglers song, got killed with an ice pick and had an affair with Frida Kahlo. We need mor of that kind of colour in British politics.
Yeah, probably not the best idea to out yourself as a Communist, even if no longer Revolutionary .
35 years ago I was also slim, had hair and didn't need glasses.
Are you Jeremy Corbyn ?
Oi, Diane Abbot and now Jeremy Corbyn. One slightly pissed afternoon on here and I am damned forever.
Currently sitting in the Salvation Army Hall in Catford waiting for the Lewisham East hustings to begin. All the candidates have turned up except the Tory.
Won't be a popular point on here but May and Rudd have been running a country and an election campaign during these past difficult days. Corbyn and Abbott have only needed to run their campaign and both on specific days of new policy initiatives where they should have been fully clued up and focussed have massively fouled up. Doesn't bode well if they were in government.
No lover of the tories but they have my vote. If David Milliband or Andy burnham had been in charge it could have been a different story.
May and Rudd have not been running the country - parliament has been dissolved until after the election.
Currently sitting in the Salvation Army Hall in Catford waiting for the Lewisham East hustings to begin. All the candidates have turned up except the Tory.
Currently sitting in the Salvation Army Hall in Catford waiting for the Lewisham East hustings to begin. All the candidates have turned up except the Tory.
Comments
If she gets a reduced majority, that will be the end of her because of the reasons for calling the election, and hopefully the Tories will find somebody better. But I haven't given up on Corbyn yet. He has enough days to continue to press the message and people may just wake up on polling day and decide, let's try to make a better country.
Although I'm not voting Tory so not sure why you've asked me that.
Although it helps, you don't need a government to tell you what to do to make for a better country, 1,000's of people everyday do just that, whether that's in their profession, voluntary work, whatever it may be every individual can make a difference.
A 7% corporation tax does not help the economy unless the money government takes away from businesses, that otherwise would have invested, is better invested to improve output and is not pissed up the wall. It's not the motives that are necessarily wrong, it's the idea Corbyn and Abbott and McDonnell have a have a scooby doo how to achieve their aims.
Much more likely is an alliance between the Labour government Unite and Momentum to nationalise everything, fuel wage inflation without productivity gains, burn all the money they raise from tax and borrowing, run out of cash and then blame business and the rich for making the country bankrupt.
In a funny peculiar way I would like to see Corbyn get elected and sit back and watch the fun.
I will not vote Tory out of a genetic abnormality, but through a simple process of elimination of the parties least likely to destroy the economy. That's ignoring the Labour party led by chancers who have spent their attention seeking political careers as "radicals" and now in the uncomfortable position of having to justify and explain their bizarre past activities. If May is winging it Labour are flying on a wing and a prayer.
If Labour had a leader who appealed to the masses and had the same policies as Corbyn I believe this election would be very close
Obviously some are steering clear purely because of him but I think a lot more are considering voting Labour purely for their policies.
I think Chukka Umunna could have won as well.
Burnham, Kendall, Cooper, I doubt it.
No chance with Corbyn, McDonnell & Abbott.
No lover of the tories but they have my vote. If David Milliband or Andy burnham had been in charge it could have been a different story.
Oi, Diane Abbot and now Jeremy Corbyn. One slightly pissed afternoon on here and I am damned forever.
And I reject beards in all their forms.