Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.

The General Election - June 8th 2017

1146147149151152320

Comments

  • edited June 2017

    See this is the problem now day's, the photo you posted and then there's this one floating around the internet, 2 completely contradictory pieces of information on pretty much the same thing
    Latter one is from Guido so can be safely ignored as it's probably untrue.
  • apologies got the country wrong think we know what i meant.
  • See this is the problem now day's, the photo you posted and then there's this one floating around the internet, 2 completely contradictory pieces of information on pretty much the same thing
    Does that 11bn include the fact he wants to ditch the fees from September onwards? Unlikely I'd say.

    Also just seen he's wanting to scrap the 30bn of student fee debt already owed. Wonder if that's coming from his money tree as well?
  • Fiiish said:

    Two fallacies there regarding 'selling houses means same number of people waiting for a home' (yes, same number of people on the waiting list but now less homes!) and that open door immigration increases numbers of homeless (red herring as councils ought to be increasing stock to meet demand regardless of citizenship).
    Most migrants are not eligible for assistance if homeless. They would need to have indefinite leave to remain or be considered habitually resident, or in the case of EU migrants, be considered to be Workers. For local authorities to have a homelessness duty in addition to being eligible, they would also need to be in priority need (having children or some other vulnerability) and unintentionally homeless.
  • Most migrants are not eligible for assistance if homeless. They would need to have indefinite leave to remain or be considered habitually resident, or in the case of EU migrants, be considered to be Workers. For local authorities to have a homelessness duty in addition to being eligible, they would also need to be in priority need (having children or some other vulnerability) and unintentionally homeless.
    So regardless of council house stock immigration levels would basically have no effect on statutory homelessness, statistically speaking?
  • The main problem with the original right to buy is that local authorities were not permitted to build replacements. Consequently the amount of social housing stock went down. Unfortunately the Tories decided in 2015 to extend right to buy to housing association tenants, and also increased the RTB discounts. And as a double whammy of epic proportions, the new RTB discounts to be funded by forcing councils to sell off their most valuable housing stock.
  • Just to add to the earlier comments about the bias on here, I was interested so went back and did a back of the fag packet calculation from the preceding 6 pages earlier.

    There were contributions from a total of 49 different posters which broke down as follows:

    13 broadly pro or supportive of the Tories
    27 broadly anti or critical of the Tories
    9 where there wasn't an obvious leaning either way due to the nature of the post.

    So yes, more anti's than pro as claimed but then again we have split views from Lab, Lib Dem & Green supporters versus Tory (and UKIP I expect) supporters so that might be expected. And certainly nowhere near the 85-90% bias claimed.

    Yeah. I'm sad like that.

    Good stats.

    Get on to Jezza. With calculations like that you will have Abbotts job waiting if Labour get in power.
  • Go sit in the sun BA, it's lovely outside.
  • Homelessness includes more than just rough sleepers and yes it has increased since 2010, but my point was that it actually peaked at much higher levels in 2003 under Labour.

    So if you believe that Tory cuts have caused the recent spike in homelessness (seems fair to assume it has been a partial contributory factor), then one needs an alternative explanation for what happened under Labour last time (unsurprisingly Corbyn keeps quiet on this one!).
    The extent of rough sleeping on the streets is a global shame on this country, but if you are looking for a historical context, then you better go back to when it all started. Round about 1986, when the country was supposedly "booming" under Thatcher and Lawson's crazed policies.

  • Sponsored links:


  • cafcpolo said:

    Does that 11bn include the fact he wants to ditch the fees from September onwards? Unlikely I'd say.

    Also just seen he's wanting to scrap the 30bn of student fee debt already owed. Wonder if that's coming from his money tree as well?
    The £30bn is money already loaned - so the cost is the loss of income from the loan repayments - estimated I believe at about £2bn a year.
  • Rothko said:

    As someone who was working in the government department responsible for housing in the early 2000's, the numbers jumped as local authorities were in the process of doing massive upgrades to their housing stock, which delayed homing lots of people, once decent homes was completed, the numbers dropped at a massive rate.

    As someone who was working for a local authority at the time, the upgrades would have progressed more quickly if the Government hadn't insisted that LAs hive off their housing stock to Housing Associations or ALMOs (Arms Length Management Organisations) in order to get the funding to do the work.
  • agim said:

    You make going to state school sound like going to the work house. I know plenty of successful people that haven't didn't even go to grammar school and are earning great money and leading prosperous careers
    So do I. Especially in meritocratic industries like advertising.

    But at a rough guess I would guess these people are aged 45 or over, right?

    Times have changed. If you wanna get in at the advertising agency called Lowe nowadays you better have a damn good degree. MBA an advantage. Which is ironic, since Frank Lowe, whose name the agency bears, started his career in 16 in an ad agency's postroom.

  • See this is the problem now day's, the photo you posted and then there's this one floating around the internet, 2 completely contradictory pieces of information on pretty much the same thing
    The costs of re-nationalising industries is included there where it isn't in the original pic that I posted. That is because the re-nationalisations pay for themselves over time by the "profits" they generate for the taxpayer, rather than for private business.

    I like to think of it as installing solar panels on your roof. You might have to pay out a couple of thousand at first, but once you become fully self sufficient and even sell your excess solar energy back to the grid, it pays for itself many times over.
  • Fiiish said:

    So regardless of council house stock immigration levels would basically have no effect on statutory homelessness, statistically speaking?
    Correct. Although migrant arrivals moving into the privately rented sector will undoubtedly have impacted on the availability of privately rented properties for all residents.
  • https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/may/25/london-property-squeeze-affordable-housing

    If you've got time, well worth a read. A wake up call to the absolute clusterfuck and shambles the housing market is in this country (especially london)
  • As has been mentioned already, most homelessness data relates to statutory homelessness - ie the numbers of homeless households accepted as homeless by local authorities. By definition this data does not include households who, after their application to a local authority, are not accepted because they are deemed ineligible; not homeless; homeless but not in priority need; or homeless, and in priority need but intentionally so. What this means is that the actual number of homeless households will exceed the statistical data by some margin.

    Shelter did some interesting work on this at the end of last year where they considered 4 sets of data -
    - government statistics on rough sleepers (these are collected annually by local authorities and returned to government);
    - statistics on those who are in temporary accommodation (again, returned to government on a quarterly basis by local authorities, and likely to include households who may eventually not be accepted as homeless)
    - the number of people housed in hostels
    - the number of people waiting to be housed by Social Services departments (for example, homeless 16 and 17 year olds who are accepted as a child in need under the Children Act and where Childrens Services have a responsibility to provide accommodation.)

    As reported here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-38157410
  • edited June 2017

    i take it you didnt vote leave are you going to continue to sulk about or shall we do a best out of 3
    When we know exactly what the Brexit terms are after the completion of the negotiations I believe it would be a grotesque obscenity if the government of the day did not allow the country to decide if those terms are acceptable. Which is why I am voting Lib Dem. There is an outside chance (if the current polls are to be believed - which I don't to be fair) that Labour could form a coalition government with the Lib Dems and the SNP. Allowing the country to accept or reject the terms of the final Brexit deal should be the minimum concession the Lib Dems and SNP extract from Labour in exchange for joining the coalition.
  • So do I. Especially in meritocratic industries like advertising.

    But at a rough guess I would guess these people are aged 45 or over, right?

    Times have changed. If you wanna get in at the advertising agency called Lowe nowadays you better have a damn good degree. MBA an advantage. Which is ironic, since Frank Lowe, whose name the agency bears, started his career in 16 in an ad agency's postroom.

    What industries aren't meritocratic out of interest?

    (in my experience the least meritocratic employers are in the public sector with their tightly structured pay scales and promotion based on age/tenure rather than ability)
  • I'm not sure what to read into this and am not posting this with a political lever to pull but in London only 41% of the 8,000 or so sleeping rough are UK nationals, whilst 37% are from Eastern European countries which joined the EU in 2004 or 2007.

    The remainder are from other European countries (10%), Africa (6%), Asia (5%), The Americas (1%) and other (0.1%).

    Source: CHAIN, Jun 2016.

  • Sponsored links:


  • edited June 2017

    What industries aren't meritocratic out of interest?

    (in my experience the least meritocratic employers are in the public sector with their tightly structured pay scales and promotion based on age/tenure rather than ability)
    Not entirely correct (he said on his tea break).

    The vast majority of internal public sector promotions will be by competition (in the Civil Service the most common means is by criteria based interviewing, your age and/or length of service have no impact); external recruitment is generally by competition also (and, in the case of Fast Stream entrants to the Civil Service can have young graduates leap frog many existing Civil Servants).

    The complaint that you can have about this kind of promotion and recruitment is that it does not promote anyone on their actual ability to do their jobs, but on their ability to sell themselves at interview, once they have got that far.

    In general, promotion based on tenure is generally in professional/technical etc. career paths, where indivivduals are actually promoted on ability.

    Being, as I am, shy and retiring, I am not best placed to benefit from current promotion systems in the Northern Ireland Civil Service, but I'm very confident that I am equally competent (sometimes even more so) than numbers who have been promoted ahead of me.

    No system is perfect, there will always be some promoted above their level of competence, by age and tenure arre not generally the deciding factors.
  • bobmunro said:

    Let's start with law and medicine.
    Agree medicine is not at all meritocratic in the public sector but very much so in the private sector (which is why many of the best doctors do much/all of their work there).

    With regard to law, it seems pretty meritocratic to me - if you're referring to the private sector then once qualified, there's a fast track to partnership if you are proficient and capable of winning business.
  • If anyone missed Theresa's trip to Plymouth yesterday to speak with ordinary people and think about Brexit, rather than a debate, the attached link will give you a feel for how successful it was. Video too, so no misrepresentation here and this quote says it all from the reporter Sam Blackledge...


    Before 8.30am today, I had never interviewed a Prime Minister.

    Heading back to the office to transcribe my encounter with Theresa May at Plymouth's fish market, I couldn't be certain that had changed.


    Read more at http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/three-minutes-of-nothing-herald-reporter-reflects-on-pm-encounter/story-30363961-detail/story.html#oawEiALFps4BiW11.99

    So...she's not only Strong and Stable, she's also now "Very Clear" on everything! What a bloody waste of time that was. Very Clear...As Mud!!
  • I'm not sure what to read into this and am not posting this with a political lever to pull but in London only 41% of the 8,000 or so sleeping rough are UK nationals, whilst 37% are from Eastern European countries which joined the EU in 2004 or 2007.

    The remainder are from other European countries (10%), Africa (6%), Asia (5%), The Americas (1%) and other (0.1%).

    Source: CHAIN, Jun 2016.

    I'm intrigued by 'and other'. Are the 0.1% literally illegal aliens. If you're not from Europe, Asia, Africa or the Americas where else could you come from?
  • I'm intrigued by 'and other'. Are the 0.1% literally illegal aliens. If you're not from Europe, Asia, Africa or the Americas where else could you come from?
    Might of been an Eskimo
  • There are lots of reasons for homeless people and I do think it shames us all. About time we had somebody from any party committed to doing something about it.

  • Yes but it applies to both.
    Where have i said or suggested it doesn't?

    I don't believe the Corbyn figures any more than I wouldn't believe any Tory figures. Once a policy is put in place governments just borrow if they want to finish the job. When has anyone ver seen an attempt to hold them to account on how much was raised buy a particular budget and how much of it got spent on what? Attention span of the voters wouldn't make it worth the effort. All you get is a re-jig of numbers at the next budget with perhaps a passing reference as to why they need to borrow/tax/spend more than they thought originally.

    The game is to try and present the figures to win votes as if you believe them, Corbyn and Abbott didn't do a good job.

    If voters want to believe them fine, but deep down they don't care, as long as they think they will benefit from the promises, and anyway, why would you probe what you want to believe?
  • I'm not sure what to read into this and am not posting this with a political lever to pull but in London only 41% of the 8,000 or so sleeping rough are UK nationals, whilst 37% are from Eastern European countries which joined the EU in 2004 or 2007.

    The remainder are from other European countries (10%), Africa (6%), Asia (5%), The Americas (1%) and other (0.1%).

    Source: CHAIN, Jun 2016.

    I'd be prepared to bet that a significant proportion of the Europeans would, in fact, be Irish and often relatively old.

    It is a recognised feature of the emigrant experience that not all will find the streets paved with gold (even if they have employment) and, over time, as their wider immigrant cohort becomes more assimilated with the host nation, fail to move their lives on.

    Single men, still living in middle age as they did when they were in their 20s, without savings or their own homes are quite vulnerable and, often, afraid to go home to where they may no longer know many people or where they fear being seen as failures.

    The Irish government and charities (like the Aisling Project) have over the last few decades worked hard to bring back emigrants (even for brief holidays) who have not done so well.
This discussion has been closed.

Roland Out Forever!