The General Election - June 8th 2017
Comments
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Mrs Plum is a fan of simplification.
She says that no University fees got the young to register to vote, and voted in their naked self interest.8 -
it's the Labour 'centrist' policies which cost them the last election and the move to the left which so appeals to younger people which has led to the 'Corbyn Revival' .. Blair was charismatic back in 1997 and that won Labour a landslide .. looking back at his policies, he was further to the 'right' than are the present day Tories .. stodgy, dodgy boring Brown just could not continue the 'New Labour' love in, especially after Iraq and AfghanistanShootersHillGuru said:
Would be the smart move but I'm not sure that sits with the ideology first that Corbyn's Labour stand for.WSS said:The Labour party needs to get some centrist players into the fold.
Certainly this result makes the possibility of a new centre left party emerging far more unlikely than I thought.
Corbyn has I must admit played a blinder.0 -
The numbers don't tell the whole story though.AFKABartram said:Will freely admit I'm neither educated nor particularly intelligent, so looking to take on board the views of others.
Where it comes to socialism, and the strapline 'for the many not the few' (which I think people massively bought into), isn't the fact that unemployment is at the lowest levels since 1975 not the best possible aspect of providing a platform and opportunities for all?
But Corbyn is far left and that is what rising numbers of people are apparently voting for, so why should they change?Super_Eddie_Youds said:
Agree.WSS said:The Labour party needs to get some centrist players into the fold.
How labour move forward from this is massive. No infighting and the centrist power players uniting under corbyn could see real force.
Unfortunately, the centrists turned their backs on corbyn during the repeated lynchings and I think this will not go unpunished.
The government fudges numbers by not counting certain people as unemployed.
A lot of these new jobs created are on subsistence wages that need to be topped up by in work benefits.
Wages are not keeping up with the cost of essentials such as rent, fuel, food etc.
If employers could pay everyone 5 pounds a day and people were forced into such jobs by government sanctions then unemployment would be wiped out but obviously that is not the way to live.
It is also of note that employment rates are higher where cost of living is higher and pockets of unemployment exist in areas with no jobs and no wealth creation, causing a poverty cycle .14 -
Blair was not right of this Tory government. That's a fact.Lincsaddick said:
it's the Labour 'centrist' policies which cost them the last election and the move to the left which so appeals to younger people which has led to the 'Corbyn Revival' .. Blair was charismatic back in 1997 and that won Labour a landslide .. looking back at his policies, he was further to the 'right' than are the present day ToriesShootersHillGuru said:
Would be the smart move but I'm not sure that sits with the ideology first that Corbyn's Labour stand for.WSS said:The Labour party needs to get some centrist players into the fold.
Certainly this result makes the possibility of a new centre left party emerging far more unlikely than I thought.
Corbyn has I must admit played a blinder.
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May set to go to the palace later today with the assurance that she can form a government with the DUP.
Start the engine on the next election thread - lets go!5 -
A Conservative/Lib Dem or Conservative/DUP coalition would be very weak. Conservative/SNP would be stronger but unlikely. Any of these options would be poor in terms of representation.
Minority governments are common across Europe. The election result allows for a Conservative minority government to work with the other parties in the national interest to move forward with legislation (ie get Lib Dem support for some legislation, SNP support for others etc). The Labour party should have reasonable conditions under which they would pledge not to bring down a minority government - one of which is bound to be a place at the negotiating table with Europe. If they do have a place at the negotiating table, then over 80% of the electorate would be represented there. There would be compromises between the two parties, but hopefully overall everyone's hopes and concerns will be addressed.
If the Conservatives and Labour cannot negotiate such an arrangement between them, do they deserve any seats in a re-run election?
Are they capable of negotiating on the nation's behalf with Europe if they're not able to negotiate on the nation's behalf locally?0 -
Point taken, but I don't think they'll ever get the votes to get power let alone to enact any of their manifesto without gaining in the centre ground.AFKABartram said:Will freely admit I'm neither educated nor particularly intelligent, so looking to take on board the views of others.
Where it comes to socialism, and the strapline 'for the many not the few' (which I think people massively bought into), isn't the fact that unemployment is at the lowest levels since 1975 not the best possible aspect of providing a platform and opportunities for all?
But Corbyn is far left and that is what rising numbers of people are apparently voting for, so why should they change?Super_Eddie_Youds said:
Agree.WSS said:The Labour party needs to get some centrist players into the fold.
How labour move forward from this is massive. No infighting and the centrist power players uniting under corbyn could see real force.
Unfortunately, the centrists turned their backs on corbyn during the repeated lynchings and I think this will not go unpunished.0 -
What's all this 'far left' bit, please?AFKABartram said:Will freely admit I'm neither educated nor particularly intelligent, so looking to take on board the views of others.
Where it comes to socialism, and the strapline 'for the many not the few' (which I think people massively bought into), isn't the fact that unemployment is at the lowest levels since 1975 not the best possible aspect of providing a platform and opportunities for all?
But Corbyn is far left and that is what rising numbers of people are apparently voting for, so why should they change?Super_Eddie_Youds said:
Agree.WSS said:The Labour party needs to get some centrist players into the fold.
How labour move forward from this is massive. No infighting and the centrist power players uniting under corbyn could see real force.
Unfortunately, the centrists turned their backs on corbyn during the repeated lynchings and I think this will not go unpunished.
How about a reaction to the utter shit that we have endured for decades?
Let's call it 'Socialism' and explore its benefits.
Why couch Corbyn and Co. in negatives?
Accentuate the positives; they are numerous.
Don't bleat 'What are they, then?'
The path, and the 'answers' are obvious.3 -
He wasn't to the right of this Tory governmentLincsaddick said:
it's the Labour 'centrist' policies which cost them the last election and the move to the left which so appeals to younger people which has led to the 'Corbyn Revival' .. Blair was charismatic back in 1997 and that won Labour a landslide .. looking back at his policies, he was further to the 'right' than are the present day Tories .. stodgy, dodgy boring Brown just could not continue the 'New Labour' love in, especially after Iraq and AfghanistanShootersHillGuru said:
Would be the smart move but I'm not sure that sits with the ideology first that Corbyn's Labour stand for.WSS said:The Labour party needs to get some centrist players into the fold.
Certainly this result makes the possibility of a new centre left party emerging far more unlikely than I thought.
Corbyn has I must admit played a blinder.0 - Sponsored links:
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Shit - if everyone had known beforehand that she was a secret stripy nigel her position really would have been untenable this morning.DamoNorthStand said:May set to go to the palace later today with the assurance that she can form a government with the DUP.
Start the engine on the next election thread - lets go!6 -
As a doner I was getting the daily e-mails form 'Jeremy Corbyn' they really knew how to deploy supporters to best effect. The average donation was £20! This is an amazing figure when you think about it.seth plum said:The Tories spent north of six million on this campaign, more than double the Labour spend, let alone the free favours from the right wing print media.
They managed to turn a box of Thornton's into a bag of sprouts.0 -
I hope she succeeds - this is all falling into place if she does.DamoNorthStand said:May set to go to the palace later today with the assurance that she can form a government with the DUP.
Start the engine on the next election thread - lets go!1 -
what's happened is that people who voted UKIP at the last election and OUT in the referendum just did not automatically switch to the Tories but, especially in the north, returned to Labour
All in all the political situation is VERY messy and complicated .. another election will be held soon I would guess .. the sooner the better, this all needs sorting out and we need a proper government in position ... May and the Tories are no longer credible, BUT .. is Labour under Corbyn ?0 -
Unemployment being low is great, but when people employed are still having to go to food banks then it clearly isn't an incredibly important stat.AFKABartram said:Will freely admit I'm neither educated nor particularly intelligent, so looking to take on board the views of others.
Where it comes to socialism, and the strapline 'for the many not the few' (which I think people massively bought into), isn't the fact that unemployment is at the lowest levels since 1975 not the best possible aspect of providing a platform and opportunities for all?
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Annoyed at myself for noticing yesterday that I could have got 5/6 on the Tories getting fewer than 370.5 seats. Thought then it looked like free money, and I did nothing about it.
Tories ran a crap campaign with an appalling manifesto that a ten year old could have picked apart. On a scale of 0-10 where 10 is far right, I'm probably normally about a 7 but have moved further towards the middle as this shower of tories cock up time and again.
I dont trust Labour with their costed policies because I never believe that they account for the fact that tax policies change behaviour. For example, if you introduce marginal rates of tax of almost 70% on earnings between 100 and 120k you will not raise more tax from that bracket than currently. Instead of keeping only 32% of earnings, people in that group will make additional pension contributions, and thus pay no tax on that range of earnings. To take an extreme example, if you tax people at 100% you will raise no tax at all, but I'm not sure they get that.
But still, kicking down hill with the wind behind them and the labour opposition down to ten men (Abbott must count as -1), the tories have only managed a draw. May has proved herself a shocking leader, and her endless meaningless mantras and refusal to engage have cost them dearly. Corbyn has managed this campaign extremely well, and I'm sure cemented himself as leader for the foreseeable future.
We seem to be living in interesting times.
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2 years ago my MD came in singing 'blue is the colour'
Hasn't come in yet today :-)5 -
May on her way to the Palace.
Buckingham not Chrystal0 -
70% turnout in Dartford, bloody good that. Looks like Tories and Labour shared the UKIP vote (15% down).3
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Perhaps he's busy learning the words to "Red and yellow and pink and green..."3
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I know Corbyn will call it socialism. I think that is a term for the last century. For me this is a new social justice movement and a fightback against corporate greed and for a fairer society. More words but that is how I see it. I am a capitalist not a socialist, but words don't bother me - it is about results and actions.Anna_Kissed said:
What's all this 'far left' bit, please?AFKABartram said:Will freely admit I'm neither educated nor particularly intelligent, so looking to take on board the views of others.
Where it comes to socialism, and the strapline 'for the many not the few' (which I think people massively bought into), isn't the fact that unemployment is at the lowest levels since 1975 not the best possible aspect of providing a platform and opportunities for all?
But Corbyn is far left and that is what rising numbers of people are apparently voting for, so why should they change?Super_Eddie_Youds said:
Agree.WSS said:The Labour party needs to get some centrist players into the fold.
How labour move forward from this is massive. No infighting and the centrist power players uniting under corbyn could see real force.
Unfortunately, the centrists turned their backs on corbyn during the repeated lynchings and I think this will not go unpunished.
How about a reaction to the utter shit that we have endured for decades?
Let's call it 'Socialism' and explore its benefits.
Why couch Corbyn and Co. in negatives?
Accentuate the positives; they are numerous.
Don't bleat 'What are they, then?'
The path, and the 'answers' are obvious.1 -
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Does this mean they go from racist idiots to social justice liberals over night?Lincsaddick said:what's happened is that people who voted UKIP at the last election and OUT in the referendum just did not automatically switch to the Tories but, especially in the north, returned to Labour
All in all the political situation is VERY messy and complicated .. another election will be held soon I would guess .. the sooner the better, this all needs sorting out and we need a proper government in position ... May and the Tories are no longer credible, BUT .. is Labour under Corbyn ?2 -
I would suggest it is a good idea that Prince Phillip isn't in the room.Chris_from_Sidcup said:9 -
If you want to be in the top 1% in this country you will need to add a few zeros to that 26k.Rob7Lee said:
You do realise anyone who earns more than circa £26k is in the top 1% in the world on income....... So that's most Nurses, Teachers, Policeman etc etc. Are you suggesting now they need to have their incoems reduced and some of that given to the 99%MuttleyCAFC said:1% of families and Corporations own 48% of the worlds income and they are not content with that. Lob old Rupert in that. They are using politics to achieve their ends. This has ramifications for the world. There was a similar issue in the states where Sanders fought against Clinton for the nomination. He was fiddled out of victory. He is probably the most popular politician in America at the moment. This movement is not just fighting on one front. Those of us that support it were not expecting instant victory, we see it as a battle. But we are on our way to a better world.
Thank you agent May - you played a blinder.
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/050615/are-you-top-one-percent-world.asp
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Yes on the ones that went to labourBR7_addick said:
Does this mean they go from racist idiots to social justice liberals over night?Lincsaddick said:what's happened is that people who voted UKIP at the last election and OUT in the referendum just did not automatically switch to the Tories but, especially in the north, returned to Labour
All in all the political situation is VERY messy and complicated .. another election will be held soon I would guess .. the sooner the better, this all needs sorting out and we need a proper government in position ... May and the Tories are no longer credible, BUT .. is Labour under Corbyn ?
No on the ones that went to the Tories
I'd have thought you'd have got this by now.4 -
fees first introduced by the Blair government ?MrOneLung said:
Of course - Corbyn has basically said he will give them 30k each by removing fees.seth plum said:Mrs Plum is a fan of simplification.
She says that no University fees got the young to register to vote, and voted in their naked self interest.0 -
Yes, Blair is new Labour not Corbyn's Labour. The key part of yesterday - was the battle against the Blairites - that has been won.Lincsaddick said:
fees first introduced by the Blair government ?MrOneLung said:
Of course - Corbyn has basically said he will give them 30k each by removing fees.seth plum said:Mrs Plum is a fan of simplification.
She says that no University fees got the young to register to vote, and voted in their naked self interest.1 -
lol .. it shows that they want out of Europe but do not want a land ruined/ruled by leather skirt May and her Tory sheep ..BR7_addick said:
Does this mean they go from racist idiots to social justice liberals over night?Lincsaddick said:what's happened is that people who voted UKIP at the last election and OUT in the referendum just did not automatically switch to the Tories but, especially in the north, returned to Labour
All in all the political situation is VERY messy and complicated .. another election will be held soon I would guess .. the sooner the better, this all needs sorting out and we need a proper government in position ... May and the Tories are no longer credible, BUT .. is Labour under Corbyn ?0
