The influence of the EU on Britain.
Comments
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I forgot to mention the historical revisionism of the Brexiter movement. Think of all the other political forces in history that have tried to revise history for their own sinister purposes. They have never been on the people's side and neither are those engineering the pro-Brexit movement.1
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What, even the Nazis?PragueAddick said:
It's a sensible suggestion, of course. Not sure I am capable of responding in kind now. Still seething. Watching that bloody game on the stream hasn't helped.Southbank said:
Look at Red in se8s posts.PragueAddick said:
Bottler.Southbank said:
Guven that somebody on this thread just called Leavers Nazis I think you need to take this kind of ridiculous name calling up with him.PragueAddick said:I am listening to the World Tonight on R4. They are talking about the continuing bitter divide between Brexiters and Remainers. There was some research quoted which basically said people are so entrenched that when asked if they would take in a lodger, they would only take in one who was like minded on Brexit. And then they returned to "a pub in SE London" where they were before the referendum. They ask a guy what he thinks about Remainers. I can quote him verbatim
"Greedy bastards. Rich people. (edit:" It' all money to these people") I mean, who won the war? We did."
OK, @stonemuse, @Southbank @blackpool72 @dippenhall . Any of you...?????
WTF is he talking about? In what way am I greedy by being a Remainer? Do you suppose I am "richer" than any of you? Even if that were true, why did EU membership make me richer than you? And as for the frigging war!! Who's this "we"? Not him or me, obviously. Well my Dad was one of 7 kids from Plumstead and did his time in Burma with the Royal Signals in the rank of corporal. Is that enough of a contribution? WTF? WTF is this shit? Does this guy speak for you? we are leaving the EU on the back of a wave of hateful incomprehensible bile like that?
And as for that second half at the Valley...
He was quoted because he was found to be representative of the mood in the pub. In South East London. I might even be able to name the pub if I can find the clip. (edit: The Lord Nelson)
On the other hand I have missed the post where Leavers were called Nazis. I think you saw the word Nazi and read what you wanted to read. Of course it is absurd. You won the war against the Nazis and I didn't.
Foreign commentators often say that Britain seems to be having a collective nervous breakdown. Reading and hearing this absolute shite, I could not agree more.
If you like we could both take responsibility for the idiot wings of Remain and Leave, or we could both agree that these people are not worth talking about and stick to the issues instead.
I bid you all fellow Charlton tribe members a good night.
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bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43045553
...Can't wait for this patronising plonker to remind me again how wonderful it's all going to be. Deep joy, a speech by Boris.
And once again we have the line that those not on board are "betraying" the UK.2 -
"...The Government is chronically underprepared to deal with immigration changes after Brexit, is responsible for “unacceptable” delays in setting out its plans, and continues to starve key border agencies of resources, according to a damning report from a parliamentary committee.."
independent.co.uk/news/brexit-latest-government-not-ready-changes-unprepared-home-affairs-committee-border-security-a8209251.html
Would anyone on here be confident enough to book a ferry trip for April next year?0 -
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-public-spending-was-calculated-in-your-tax-summary/how-public-spending-was-calculated-in-your-tax-summary
According to this website, 1.1% of my taxes go to the EU.
How much has been wasted on all of this shambles?2 -
"Johnson will claim that Brexit could open the door to an outward-facing, liberal and global Britain" - is that actually what most Brexit voters want? He talks about people's attempts to stop Brexit as 'betrayal' but I am not sure if his vision of a post Brexit Britain is itself in tune with what most Leave voters believe. Seems like an attempt to soften the tone and get Remain voters on board.1
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Boris' speech today is part of an orchestrated set of speeches being delivered by the government collectively named "the Road to Brexit". It would be easy to fob this off as typical Boris nonsense but this is, effectively, the governments position.
As I said a couple of days ago, the chances of a no deal Brexit are pretty high and any rebellion from MPs that think remaining in the SM and CU needs to start immediately.0 -
What a weird post. Why the fuck would any of us take responsibility for those words when they are not our own?PragueAddick said:I am listening to the World Tonight on R4. They are talking about the continuing bitter divide between Brexiters and Remainers. There was some research quoted which basically said people are so entrenched that when asked if they would take in a lodger, they would only take in one who was like minded on Brexit. And then they returned to "a pub in SE London" where they were before the referendum. They ask a guy what he thinks about Remainers. I can quote him verbatim
"Greedy bastards.Rich people. I mean, who won the war? We did."
Edit : he said "it's all money to these people" Another one said "rich people"
OK, @stonemuse, @Southbank @blackpool72 @dippenhall . Any of you...?????
WTF is he talking about? In what way am I greedy by being a Remainer? Do you suppose I am "richer" than any of you? Even if that were true, why did EU membership make me richer than you? And as for the frigging war!! Who's this "we"? Not him or me, obviously. Well my Dad was one of 7 kids from Plumstead and did his time in Burma with the Royal Signals in the rank of corporal. Is that enough of a contribution? WTF? WTF is this shit? Does this guy speak for you? we are leaving the EU on the back of a wave of hateful incomprehensible bile like that?
And as for that second half at the Valley...
Plus you have seen enough of our posts to know the way we think is far from those comments.1 -
Would have been better mate to give what it deserved just ignore it. Some of the comments on the last few pages are boarding on hysteria, particularly the berk who keeps comparing brexiters to Nazi's. If that was me calling remainers that you know what would happen.stonemuse said:
What a weird post. Why the fuck would any of us take responsibility for those words when they are not our own?PragueAddick said:I am listening to the World Tonight on R4. They are talking about the continuing bitter divide between Brexiters and Remainers. There was some research quoted which basically said people are so entrenched that when asked if they would take in a lodger, they would only take in one who was like minded on Brexit. And then they returned to "a pub in SE London" where they were before the referendum. They ask a guy what he thinks about Remainers. I can quote him verbatim
"Greedy bastards.Rich people. I mean, who won the war? We did."
Edit : he said "it's all money to these people" Another one said "rich people"
OK, @stonemuse, @Southbank @blackpool72 @dippenhall . Any of you...?????
WTF is he talking about? In what way am I greedy by being a Remainer? Do you suppose I am "richer" than any of you? Even if that were true, why did EU membership make me richer than you? And as for the frigging war!! Who's this "we"? Not him or me, obviously. Well my Dad was one of 7 kids from Plumstead and did his time in Burma with the Royal Signals in the rank of corporal. Is that enough of a contribution? WTF? WTF is this shit? Does this guy speak for you? we are leaving the EU on the back of a wave of hateful incomprehensible bile like that?
And as for that second half at the Valley...
Plus you have seen enough of our posts to know the way we think is far from those comments.0 -
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This is an accurate summary of the dishonesty of many Brexit supporting politicians today. My belief is a hard Brexit is the most likely result as the current talks cannot succeed. I just have faith that there are enough sane people of all parties in the Commons to ensure this doesn't happen. It is their duty to put the country above their parties.Red_in_SE8 said:
This is a specious argument. The government warned that a very likely and very very very bad consequence of a Leave vote is that the UK would end up leaving the CU and SM. The government did not need to spell out what a disaster that would be for the U.K. Economy. It was a given that anyone with half a brain cell knew this to be a fact. The Leave campaign knew this was a fact and labelled the claim that the UK would have to leave the CU and the SM as another example of Project Fear. Brexit supporters cannot now claim that actually, they voted Leave knowing that the the government claim was true when at the time they were screaming blue murder about scaremongering government propaganda.stonemuse said:
The government may not have been an ‘active’ participant in campaigning, but the government leaflet was unambiguous in that it transparently advocated that we should remain. The choice it gave was that if we did not vote remain, we would leave the European Union.Fiiish said:The problem with the supposition of the above, that the government promised that Brexit means Brexit, is that the government was not an active participant in campaigning. The government can either state unambiguously what will happen in the event of either option winning and then allow no campaigning, or otherwise it allows two campaigns and it enacts whichever one got the result. Instead the government promised one thing, the official Leave campaign another and we are left with a total mess on our hands.
I am not saying that the entire populace was as clued up as me, but I clearly interpreted that as meaning we leave both the SM and the CU.0 -
Seems the worlds largest hedge fund isn't so keen on the prospects of Europe...
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02-09/dalios-13-billion-short-bridgewater-unveils-its-biggest-ever-short-position
Basically a big bet on Europe going bust, with shorts across all sectors.1 -
I don't think it's fair for sensible Leave voters to have to defend morons who call Remain voters traitors or undemocratic. In the same way Remain voters do not need to defend those who call Leavers racists or Nazis. This is the sort of divisive identity based tribalist mudslinging I was referring to earlier that has allowed far-right politicians and media moguls to flourish in a vacuum of idiocy. The moron in the pub is a moron. The fact he voted to leave is incidental.2
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That's a huge leap to say a hedge fund having shorts is a bet on Europe going bust. Far more likely is they believe the Brexit will end in No Deal, which will hit all European sectors, most likely in the short term only, but it only needs to happen for a minute for those shorts to pay off.PolzeathNick said:Seems the worlds largest hedge fund isn't so keen on the prospects of Europe...
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02-09/dalios-13-billion-short-bridgewater-unveils-its-biggest-ever-short-position
Basically a big bet on Europe going bust, with shorts across all sectors.1 -
Ties in with exactly why I voted Brexit. Although I can obviously only speak for myself though.CharltonMadrid said:"Johnson will claim that Brexit could open the door to an outward-facing, liberal and global Britain" - is that actually what most Brexit voters want? He talks about people's attempts to stop Brexit as 'betrayal' but I am not sure if his vision of a post Brexit Britain is itself in tune with what most Leave voters believe. Seems like an attempt to soften the tone and get Remain voters on board.
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From the article itself:PolzeathNick said:Seems the worlds largest hedge fund isn't so keen on the prospects of Europe...
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02-09/dalios-13-billion-short-bridgewater-unveils-its-biggest-ever-short-position
Basically a big bet on Europe going bust, with shorts across all sectors.
"So yes, perhaps if you're holding cash, you will feel pretty stupid eventually, but not after last week's global market plunge; however, you will certainly feel much dumber if you actually believed Dalio."
Also it isn't a bet on Europe going bust but the premise that Europe's stocks are overvalued and there is going to be a cooldown (which we saw last week on a global scale, not just in Europe).2 -
Boris Johnson has made things worse for that woman in Iran and she is still suffering.
Maybe he said 'don't keep going on about her to me, it's getting boring and nobody cares. Anyway I have to talk bollocks about brexit'.
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I would be far less concerned with Brexit, in all honesty, if it wasn't for the likes of Gove, Johnson, Redwood and other loonies on the Tory right having too much influence.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Ties in with exactly why I voted Brexit. Although I can obviously only speak for myself though.CharltonMadrid said:"Johnson will claim that Brexit could open the door to an outward-facing, liberal and global Britain" - is that actually what most Brexit voters want? He talks about people's attempts to stop Brexit as 'betrayal' but I am not sure if his vision of a post Brexit Britain is itself in tune with what most Leave voters believe. Seems like an attempt to soften the tone and get Remain voters on board.
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For the first time ever, I couldn't agree with you moreMuttleyCAFC said:
I would be far less concerned with Brexit, in all honesty, if it wasn't for the likes of Gove, Johnson, Redwood and other loonies on the Tory right having too much influence.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Ties in with exactly why I voted Brexit. Although I can obviously only speak for myself though.CharltonMadrid said:"Johnson will claim that Brexit could open the door to an outward-facing, liberal and global Britain" - is that actually what most Brexit voters want? He talks about people's attempts to stop Brexit as 'betrayal' but I am not sure if his vision of a post Brexit Britain is itself in tune with what most Leave voters believe. Seems like an attempt to soften the tone and get Remain voters on board.
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Japan destroys Johnson's bollocks about Brexit leading to a more global liberal outward facing Britain:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/you-should-read-japans-brexit-note-to-britain-its-brutal-a7833396.html
Cue the usual bollocks from the morons who think that farkin' foreigners should shut up about Brexit.1 -
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+1 for me @MuttleyCAFCStu_of_Kunming said:
For the first time ever, I couldn't agree with you moreMuttleyCAFC said:
I would be far less concerned with Brexit, in all honesty, if it wasn't for the likes of Gove, Johnson, Redwood and other loonies on the Tory right having too much influence.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Ties in with exactly why I voted Brexit. Although I can obviously only speak for myself though.CharltonMadrid said:"Johnson will claim that Brexit could open the door to an outward-facing, liberal and global Britain" - is that actually what most Brexit voters want? He talks about people's attempts to stop Brexit as 'betrayal' but I am not sure if his vision of a post Brexit Britain is itself in tune with what most Leave voters believe. Seems like an attempt to soften the tone and get Remain voters on board.
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On a philosophical note 48% of UK citizens are foreigners now.Fiiish said:Japan destroys Johnson's bollocks about Brexit leading to a more global liberal outward facing Britain:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/you-should-read-japans-brexit-note-to-britain-its-brutal-a7833396.html
Cue the usual bollocks from the morons who think that farkin' foreigners should shut up about Brexit.
52% won, they can say and do what they want in what is now their country.
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It would be great if Brexit was all about being open and forward thinking but I worry that only a minority of people voted for it with that in their minds, and for many it was more about fear and rejection. Some on here have helpfully demonstrated that, at least for them, it was a desire for the UK to have a more modern, global outlook and this is definitely something I can sympathise with. The politicians representing the UK are doing a horrible job at doing this though and have only made it look extremely insular from abroad.
Those who voted for Brexit hoping for a progressive, reinvented UK deserve much better than those who are representing them as well as having to be associated with all the mindless rhetoric about traitors, etc. If Brexit is to work it needs to have its focus brought away from much of the unstructured anger and instead onto something more positive.11 -
well statedCharltonMadrid said:It would be great if Brexit was all about being open and forward thinking but I worry that only a minority of people voted for it with that in their minds, and for many it was more about fear and rejection. Some on here have helpfully demonstrated that, at least for them, it was a desire for the UK to have a more modern, global outlook and this is definitely something I can sympathise with. The politicians representing the UK are doing a horrible job at doing this though and have only made it look extremely insular from abroad.
Those who voted for Brexit hoping for a progressive, reinvented UK deserve much better than those who are representing them as well as having to be associated with all the mindless rhetoric about traitors, etc. If Brexit is to work it needs to have its focus brought away from much of the unstructured anger and instead onto something more positive.0 -
very true @MuttleyCAFCMuttleyCAFC said:
I would be far less concerned with Brexit, in all honesty, if it wasn't for the likes of Gove, Johnson, Redwood and other loonies on the Tory right having too much influence.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Ties in with exactly why I voted Brexit. Although I can obviously only speak for myself though.CharltonMadrid said:"Johnson will claim that Brexit could open the door to an outward-facing, liberal and global Britain" - is that actually what most Brexit voters want? He talks about people's attempts to stop Brexit as 'betrayal' but I am not sure if his vision of a post Brexit Britain is itself in tune with what most Leave voters believe. Seems like an attempt to soften the tone and get Remain voters on board.
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This is simply not the case, hyperbole at its worstseth plum said:
On a philosophical note 48% of UK citizens are foreigners now.Fiiish said:Japan destroys Johnson's bollocks about Brexit leading to a more global liberal outward facing Britain:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/you-should-read-japans-brexit-note-to-britain-its-brutal-a7833396.html
Cue the usual bollocks from the morons who think that farkin' foreigners should shut up about Brexit.
52% won, they can say and do what they want in what is now their country.2 -
Brexiters have recently gone on about leaving meaning cheaper food, clothes and footwear.
They feel they can make predictions huh?
But not predict how to manage the land border with the EU.1 -
Bang on, I voted remain but don't think Brexit necessarily has to be a disaster. We could have been sensible about how long it would take for us to figure out what sort of deal we want with the EU, how long it would take to negotiate that deal and then trigger article 50.CharltonMadrid said:It would be great if Brexit was all about being open and forward thinking but I worry that only a minority of people voted for it with that in their minds, and for many it was more about fear and rejection. Some on here have helpfully demonstrated that, at least for them, it was a desire for the UK to have a more modern, global outlook and this is definitely something I can sympathise with. The politicians representing the UK are doing a horrible job at doing this though and have only made it look extremely insular from abroad.
Those who voted for Brexit hoping for a progressive, reinvented UK deserve much better than those who are representing them as well as having to be associated with all the mindless rhetoric about traitors, etc. If Brexit is to work it needs to have its focus brought away from much of the unstructured anger and instead onto something more positive.
The utter incompetence of our political leaders means the outcome will be disastrous and satisfy none but the most right wing nut jobs who just wanted us to leave as a manifestation of their hatred of foreigners.9 -
Same here. I was initially a Leave voter but I voted Remain because the only people in politics who wanted Brexit wanted a more fearful, insular and exploitative UK built on populist mantras and failed economics and that is the path we are currently heading down. The vast majority of Brits will be left worse off, both financially and from a civic perspective, by the Brexit currently on the table.
Unfortunately it'll be too late for those who let their hatred and fear of foreigners and the EU guide their vote to Leave to realise that hate and fear doesn't put food on the table.4
