Charlton fans pepper sprayed? (Ed. Police statement page 3)
Comments
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Further investigation has revelled the man in orange was not alone in causing problems
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Better check your wardrobe, think they've had your best clobber away.T_C_E said:Further investigation has revelled the man in orange was not alone in causing problems
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The pitch invader should have been arrested or ejected from the ground, not patted on the shoulder and plopped back into the stand.
They goaded, our fans shouldn't have reacted.
People ceding to the police and moving away should not have continued to be pepper sprayed to oblivion as they stepped back. The first use had the intended effect.
Nobody comes out of this in a good light, police included in my opinion.15 -
The bloke on the left at the bottom has got an alibi - he's dead.T_C_E said:Further investigation has revelled the man in orange was not alone in causing problems
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I thought it would be a lame , least amount of aggro fixture possible , hence took the kids but I should have realised if Shrewsbury scored and dared to give it the big one it would ignite our fans in to stampeding down the front without due care an attention, after being on the beer and gear for a few hours .
Ok for me cos I know the 3ft wall and 4 stewards would hold everyone back and no one would really want it till there's more stewards /old bill in the way .
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Must have been a high wall, fence or miners strike type line of police that stopped our lot getting on the pitch. They were so angry nothing else could have stopped them.8
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About 15 or so years ago about 100 of them jumped a group of half a dozen Millwall. One Millwall lad got stabbed and ended up with a punctured lung. I know of a group of Millwall who have been looking out for them at England games ever since.palarsehater said:Said it before Shrewsbury fans are scum they’ve been slapped about at England games before for the shit behaviour
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It appears tango man on the pitch giving it the biggun has been found on Facebook by one of our very own Inspector Clouseau
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Well said. If video evidence was available I’d be in favour of bans for fans of either side intent on violence. Grow up.Athletico Charlton said:@bobcafc7 instead of just lol’ing posts I would be interested to hear your opinion on why our fans trying to fight the home fans, spitting, throwing bottles, acting aggressively generally in front of kids and standing in the way of elderly fans a number of which had requested to be moved to the front row so they could sit and watch the game they had paid to go to is so funny and acceptable to you?
Sure Shrews fans acted badly too, but ‘they started it and deserved to be dealt with by police too’ is the quality and level of argument I would expect from my 5 year old.0 -
Animals - string em up!PeterGage said:I was at the game and here is my perspective.
Long before the incident, there was a Charlton supporter in front of me give rude hand gestures constantly to the away supporters. How mature is that?
When Shrewsbury scored, I was not aware that some of their supporters entered the pitch and goaded ours. That though is no reason for dozens and dozens our our supporters to leave their seats, one falling over me whilst I was sitting down, to charge in mob-like form and try to attent to engage the home supporters. The stewards and the police had no option but to keep them apart, and if the solution was the use of pepper spray, then so be it. I am of course extremely sorry if innocent supporters sitting nearby were affected but the incident did look as though drastic action was needed to keep OUR fabs from entering the Shrewsbury stand, hence the use of spay on our so called fans only.
Thereafter a number of Charlton supporters stood at the barriers close to the pitch and in doing so, blocked the view of the supporters sitting down in the front rows; they refused to move when politely asked to do so. One supporter on the barriers was spitting at the opposing goalkeeper.
Overall, I was not proud on the night to be a Charlton supporter and thus I was supportive of the police action to attempt to keep our thugs in order.
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The lot I speak of are younger types, genuinely look like there going trout poaching, one of these lots that just go in there group and act like wankers, there latest was telling everyone some bloke was undercover old bill - the bloke wasn’t I would just imagine they were off there heads on drugs. They also started throwing chairs around which impressed no one so they got a slap, there an equal to Bristol city who are also a shitstain on the footballing with there fans behaviour, I enjoy England games to chat to other fans, the afore mentioned see it as a chance to promote there club - which tbh I don’t see as I wouldn’t be admitting I’m from Shrewsbury or Bristol, the lad in the orange Facebook has been put on Charlton Facebook Which is a bit ott, but he looks like a prick and apparently calls himself a semi pro boxer, obviousky models himself on david haye the way he got sat on his ass.MillwallFan said:
About 15 or so years ago about 100 of them jumped a group of half a dozen Millwall. One Millwall lad got stabbed and ended up with a punctured lung. I know of a group of Millwall who have been looking out for them at England games ever since.palarsehater said:Said it before Shrewsbury fans are scum they’ve been slapped about at England games before for the shit behaviour
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Thanks @WSS for your descriptive and thought-provoking response.WSS said:
Typical ref against CharltonPeterGage said:I was at the game and here is my perspective.
Long before the incident, there was a Charlton supporter in front of me give rude hand gestures constantly to the away supporters. How mature is that?
When Shrewsbury scored, I was not aware that some of their supporters entered the pitch and goaded ours. That though is no reason for dozens and dozens our our supporters to leave their seats, one falling over me whilst I was sitting down, to charge in mob-like form and try to attent to engage the home supporters. The stewards and the police had no option but to keep them apart, and if the solution was the use of pepper spray, then so be it. I am of course extremely sorry if innocent supporters sitting nearby were affected but the incident did look as though drastic action was needed to keep OUR fabs from entering the Shrewsbury stand, hence the use of spay on our so called fans only.
Thereafter a number of Charlton supporters stood at the barriers close to the pitch and in doing so, blocked the view of the supporters sitting down in the front rows; they refused to move when politely asked to do so. One supporter on the barriers was spitting at the opposing goalkeeper.
Overall, I was not proud on the night to be a Charlton supporter and thus I was supportive of the police action to attempt to keep our thugs in order.
You clearly dont agree with the content of my interpretation of the facts and that is fine by me.
However, I would like to think that most people would agree that in a civilised society there is no justification for the moronic acts I witnessed and described, regardless of whether they are carried out by Charlton fans, Shrewbury fans or any other football or non football groups of people.
In such cases it is the responsibility of the police to restore order in a proportional way. Whether or not the use of pepper spray is proportional is a matter of opinion, as shown by the debate on here.
Given you dont agree with the content of my posting, perhaps you would kindly give your views on what is acceptable (spitting for example?)
I look forward to seeing your response. Thanks3 -
To not expect chanting against the opposition or rude hand gestures at a football match is, in my opinion, somewhat naive.PeterGage said:
Thanks @WSS for your descriptive and thought-provoking response.WSS said:
Typical ref against CharltonPeterGage said:I was at the game and here is my perspective.
Long before the incident, there was a Charlton supporter in front of me give rude hand gestures constantly to the away supporters. How mature is that?
When Shrewsbury scored, I was not aware that some of their supporters entered the pitch and goaded ours. That though is no reason for dozens and dozens our our supporters to leave their seats, one falling over me whilst I was sitting down, to charge in mob-like form and try to attent to engage the home supporters. The stewards and the police had no option but to keep them apart, and if the solution was the use of pepper spray, then so be it. I am of course extremely sorry if innocent supporters sitting nearby were affected but the incident did look as though drastic action was needed to keep OUR fabs from entering the Shrewsbury stand, hence the use of spay on our so called fans only.
Thereafter a number of Charlton supporters stood at the barriers close to the pitch and in doing so, blocked the view of the supporters sitting down in the front rows; they refused to move when politely asked to do so. One supporter on the barriers was spitting at the opposing goalkeeper.
Overall, I was not proud on the night to be a Charlton supporter and thus I was supportive of the police action to attempt to keep our thugs in order.
You clearly dont agree with the content of my interpretation of the facts and that is fine by me.
However, I would like to think that most people would agree that in a civilised society there is no justification for the moronic acts I witnessed and described, regardless of whether they are carried out by Charlton fans, Shrewbury fans or any other football or non football groups of people.
In such cases it is the responsibility of the police to restore order in a proportional way. Whether or not the use of pepper spray is proportional is a matter of opinion, as shown by the debate on here.
Given you dont agree with the content of my posting, perhaps you would kindly give your views on what is acceptable (spitting for example?)
I look forward to seeing your response. Thanks
However, in terms of the behaviour of a small section of our fans in response to the behaviour of a small section of their fans after they scored, it was, I totally agree, moronic and unacceptable by BOTH sets of fans (see my previous post on this thread).6 -
Shrewsbury ----Charlton
Shrewsbury-----Charlton
PEPPER SPRAY ????? ---------- FFS Plod have words with yourself0 -
The highlighted bit reminded me of thisPeterGage said:
Thanks @WSS for your descriptive and thought-provoking response.WSS said:
Typical ref against CharltonPeterGage said:I was at the game and here is my perspective.
Long before the incident, there was a Charlton supporter in front of me give rude hand gestures constantly to the away supporters. How mature is that?
When Shrewsbury scored, I was not aware that some of their supporters entered the pitch and goaded ours. That though is no reason for dozens and dozens our our supporters to leave their seats, one falling over me whilst I was sitting down, to charge in mob-like form and try to attent to engage the home supporters. The stewards and the police had no option but to keep them apart, and if the solution was the use of pepper spray, then so be it. I am of course extremely sorry if innocent supporters sitting nearby were affected but the incident did look as though drastic action was needed to keep OUR fabs from entering the Shrewsbury stand, hence the use of spay on our so called fans only.
Thereafter a number of Charlton supporters stood at the barriers close to the pitch and in doing so, blocked the view of the supporters sitting down in the front rows; they refused to move when politely asked to do so. One supporter on the barriers was spitting at the opposing goalkeeper.
Overall, I was not proud on the night to be a Charlton supporter and thus I was supportive of the police action to attempt to keep our thugs in order.
You clearly dont agree with the content of my interpretation of the facts and that is fine by me.
However, I would like to think that most people would agree that in a civilised society there is no justification for the moronic acts I witnessed and described, regardless of whether they are carried out by Charlton fans, Shrewbury fans or any other football or non football groups of people.
In such cases it is the responsibility of the police to restore order in a proportional way. Whether or not the use of pepper spray is proportional is a matter of opinion, as shown by the debate on here.
Given you dont agree with the content of my posting, perhaps you would kindly give your views on what is acceptable (spitting for example?)
I look forward to seeing your response. Thanks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rksKvZoUCPQ
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Judging by some responses on here to the incident I can only assume Charlton life is full of angels and types that never did anything stupid with their mates as a youngster.6
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Might have done some stupid things & have been pissed up many a time but have never got into a fight or been that lairy & wound up thst I wanted to battle my way past dozens of stewards & ob.BR7_addick said:Judging by some responses on here to the incident I can only assume Charlton life is full of angels and types that never did anything stupid with their mates as a youngster.
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Doesn't matter if it had been Eton old boys. If a mob are that out of control that other people are in serious trouble of getting hurt then the ob's response was justified.Goonerhater said:Shrewsbury ----Charlton
Shrewsbury-----Charlton
PEPPER SPRAY ????? ---------- FFS Plod have words with yourself
I had a ringside seat & was no more than 10 yards away. I myself was never in danger of getting hurt but if our lot had managed to get onto the pitch & into their stand god knows what would have happened. At one point I thought the game would have to be halted as upon the re-start it was looking very ugly in our corner.0 -
dont go to a sale in Ikea mate if you think that was rough11
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Fair enough, but I’m sure the mob involved will look back and laugh at themselves 20 years from now like most have.golfaddick said:
Might have done some stupid things & have been pissed up many a time but have never got into a fight or been that lairy & wound up thst I wanted to battle my way past dozens of stewards & ob.BR7_addick said:Judging by some responses on here to the incident I can only assume Charlton life is full of angels and types that never did anything stupid with their mates as a youngster.
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It was a joke (or an attempt at one. You are/were a ref weren't you? Your stance was "against' Charlton fans. Hence the joke.PeterGage said:
Thanks @WSS for your descriptive and thought-provoking response.WSS said:
Typical ref against CharltonPeterGage said:I was at the game and here is my perspective.
Long before the incident, there was a Charlton supporter in front of me give rude hand gestures constantly to the away supporters. How mature is that?
When Shrewsbury scored, I was not aware that some of their supporters entered the pitch and goaded ours. That though is no reason for dozens and dozens our our supporters to leave their seats, one falling over me whilst I was sitting down, to charge in mob-like form and try to attent to engage the home supporters. The stewards and the police had no option but to keep them apart, and if the solution was the use of pepper spray, then so be it. I am of course extremely sorry if innocent supporters sitting nearby were affected but the incident did look as though drastic action was needed to keep OUR fabs from entering the Shrewsbury stand, hence the use of spay on our so called fans only.
Thereafter a number of Charlton supporters stood at the barriers close to the pitch and in doing so, blocked the view of the supporters sitting down in the front rows; they refused to move when politely asked to do so. One supporter on the barriers was spitting at the opposing goalkeeper.
Overall, I was not proud on the night to be a Charlton supporter and thus I was supportive of the police action to attempt to keep our thugs in order.
You clearly dont agree with the content of my interpretation of the facts and that is fine by me.
However, I would like to think that most people would agree that in a civilised society there is no justification for the moronic acts I witnessed and described, regardless of whether they are carried out by Charlton fans, Shrewbury fans or any other football or non football groups of people.
In such cases it is the responsibility of the police to restore order in a proportional way. Whether or not the use of pepper spray is proportional is a matter of opinion, as shown by the debate on here.
Given you dont agree with the content of my posting, perhaps you would kindly give your views on what is acceptable (spitting for example?)
I look forward to seeing your response. Thanks
For what it's worth - spitting is never acceptable.
They should always swallow.
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Naive or not it's always depressing to see middle aged men in football crowds jumping up and down waiving wanker gestures at fans in other stands. I'd be embarrassed to see my 7 year old doing that let alone a supposedly grown up adult.bobmunro said:
To not expect chanting against the opposition or rude hand gestures at a football match is, in my opinion, somewhat naive.PeterGage said:
Thanks @WSS for your descriptive and thought-provoking response.WSS said:
Typical ref against CharltonPeterGage said:I was at the game and here is my perspective.
Long before the incident, there was a Charlton supporter in front of me give rude hand gestures constantly to the away supporters. How mature is that?
When Shrewsbury scored, I was not aware that some of their supporters entered the pitch and goaded ours. That though is no reason for dozens and dozens our our supporters to leave their seats, one falling over me whilst I was sitting down, to charge in mob-like form and try to attent to engage the home supporters. The stewards and the police had no option but to keep them apart, and if the solution was the use of pepper spray, then so be it. I am of course extremely sorry if innocent supporters sitting nearby were affected but the incident did look as though drastic action was needed to keep OUR fabs from entering the Shrewsbury stand, hence the use of spay on our so called fans only.
Thereafter a number of Charlton supporters stood at the barriers close to the pitch and in doing so, blocked the view of the supporters sitting down in the front rows; they refused to move when politely asked to do so. One supporter on the barriers was spitting at the opposing goalkeeper.
Overall, I was not proud on the night to be a Charlton supporter and thus I was supportive of the police action to attempt to keep our thugs in order.
You clearly dont agree with the content of my interpretation of the facts and that is fine by me.
However, I would like to think that most people would agree that in a civilised society there is no justification for the moronic acts I witnessed and described, regardless of whether they are carried out by Charlton fans, Shrewbury fans or any other football or non football groups of people.
In such cases it is the responsibility of the police to restore order in a proportional way. Whether or not the use of pepper spray is proportional is a matter of opinion, as shown by the debate on here.
Given you dont agree with the content of my posting, perhaps you would kindly give your views on what is acceptable (spitting for example?)
I look forward to seeing your response. Thanks
However, in terms of the behaviour of a small section of our fans in response to the behaviour of a small section of their fans after they scored, it was, I totally agree, moronic and unacceptable by BOTH sets of fans (see my previous post on this thread).4 -
If they've been looking out for them for 15 years then perhaps they should just go to Shrewsbury?!MillwallFan said:
About 15 or so years ago about 100 of them jumped a group of half a dozen Millwall. One Millwall lad got stabbed and ended up with a punctured lung. I know of a group of Millwall who have been looking out for them at England games ever since.palarsehater said:Said it before Shrewsbury fans are scum they’ve been slapped about at England games before for the shit behaviour
On a serious note though, no need for that in football. If 1 group of blokes wants to meet another group away from the stadium and have a fight, then by all means go for it, but absolutely no need to be jumping significantly outnumbered groups and stabbing them.
I assume Millwall will be out in force for Shrewsbury away next season if those mugs get promoted.1 -
WSS said:
It was a joke (or an attempt at one. You are/were a ref weren't you? Your stance was "against' Charlton fans. Hence the joke.PeterGage said:
Thanks @WSS for your descriptive and thought-provoking response.WSS said:
Typical ref against CharltonPeterGage said:I was at the game and here is my perspective.
Long before the incident, there was a Charlton supporter in front of me give rude hand gestures constantly to the away supporters. How mature is that?
When Shrewsbury scored, I was not aware that some of their supporters entered the pitch and goaded ours. That though is no reason for dozens and dozens our our supporters to leave their seats, one falling over me whilst I was sitting down, to charge in mob-like form and try to attent to engage the home supporters. The stewards and the police had no option but to keep them apart, and if the solution was the use of pepper spray, then so be it. I am of course extremely sorry if innocent supporters sitting nearby were affected but the incident did look as though drastic action was needed to keep OUR fabs from entering the Shrewsbury stand, hence the use of spay on our so called fans only.
Thereafter a number of Charlton supporters stood at the barriers close to the pitch and in doing so, blocked the view of the supporters sitting down in the front rows; they refused to move when politely asked to do so. One supporter on the barriers was spitting at the opposing goalkeeper.
Overall, I was not proud on the night to be a Charlton supporter and thus I was supportive of the police action to attempt to keep our thugs in order.
You clearly dont agree with the content of my interpretation of the facts and that is fine by me.
However, I would like to think that most people would agree that in a civilised society there is no justification for the moronic acts I witnessed and described, regardless of whether they are carried out by Charlton fans, Shrewbury fans or any other football or non football groups of people.
In such cases it is the responsibility of the police to restore order in a proportional way. Whether or not the use of pepper spray is proportional is a matter of opinion, as shown by the debate on here.
Given you dont agree with the content of my posting, perhaps you would kindly give your views on what is acceptable (spitting for example?)
I look forward to seeing your response. Thanks
For what it's worth - spitting is never acceptable.
They should always swallow.0 -
i am a simple man, i see bill burr and i give a "like".Big_Bad_World said:
The highlighted bit reminded me of thisPeterGage said:
Thanks @WSS for your descriptive and thought-provoking response.WSS said:
Typical ref against CharltonPeterGage said:I was at the game and here is my perspective.
Long before the incident, there was a Charlton supporter in front of me give rude hand gestures constantly to the away supporters. How mature is that?
When Shrewsbury scored, I was not aware that some of their supporters entered the pitch and goaded ours. That though is no reason for dozens and dozens our our supporters to leave their seats, one falling over me whilst I was sitting down, to charge in mob-like form and try to attent to engage the home supporters. The stewards and the police had no option but to keep them apart, and if the solution was the use of pepper spray, then so be it. I am of course extremely sorry if innocent supporters sitting nearby were affected but the incident did look as though drastic action was needed to keep OUR fabs from entering the Shrewsbury stand, hence the use of spay on our so called fans only.
Thereafter a number of Charlton supporters stood at the barriers close to the pitch and in doing so, blocked the view of the supporters sitting down in the front rows; they refused to move when politely asked to do so. One supporter on the barriers was spitting at the opposing goalkeeper.
Overall, I was not proud on the night to be a Charlton supporter and thus I was supportive of the police action to attempt to keep our thugs in order.
You clearly dont agree with the content of my interpretation of the facts and that is fine by me.
However, I would like to think that most people would agree that in a civilised society there is no justification for the moronic acts I witnessed and described, regardless of whether they are carried out by Charlton fans, Shrewbury fans or any other football or non football groups of people.
In such cases it is the responsibility of the police to restore order in a proportional way. Whether or not the use of pepper spray is proportional is a matter of opinion, as shown by the debate on here.
Given you dont agree with the content of my posting, perhaps you would kindly give your views on what is acceptable (spitting for example?)
I look forward to seeing your response. Thankshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rksKvZoUCPQ3 -
Oh, I thought he was the moderator on another site.Big William said:
The bloke on the left at the bottom has got an alibi - he's dead.T_C_E said:Further investigation has revelled the man in orange was not alone in causing problems
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I wondered when you would comment on this.Acab said:
Oh, I thought he was the moderator on another site.Big William said:
The bloke on the left at the bottom has got an alibi - he's dead.T_C_E said:Further investigation has revelled the man in orange was not alone in causing problems
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I think the whole issue here is "was the police response proportionate?"
As far as I'm aware, pepper spray has never been used in a British football ground and if it has, certainly on very rare occasions as i'm not aware of it and no one I have spoken to remembers it. So there is a precedent here that has, I believe, been broken.
Thus, considering what we saw from Charlton fans, notwithstanding that it was unsavoury, esp to some fans of us who are not used to that behaviour, it was hardly a rare occurrence in football grounds here in this day and age. You only have to look back to Wigan v Man City the other week, or Port Vale at Grimsby etc etc and (to keep SLL and BBW happy) numerous times from our neighbours down the years.
Additionally, our lot were hardly going to break through in numbers as we all know the invisible wall does it's job in these situations. Anyone seriously intent on getting on the pitch and engaging would have been able to (and then do the bird afterwards), but didn't. It was just a lot of gesturing and shoving from those joining the 'mob' who were pushing those at the front into the police - an all too familiar situation.
I would say therefore that it was not a proportionate response from the police, but they will obviously be the judge of that.
I was also delighted to see orange shirt get lamped - highlight of the day. There is goading and there is goading and running on the pitch, to the front of our stand, offering everyone out was an absolute p**s take and believe me, as i'm sure SLL or BWW would confirm, it would have been a very different reaction had they or similar clubs been there.
Totally poor policing of their fans, which escalated the situation. He should have been warned ages back as he (along with some other) were at it all game and sent packing after the pitch incident.
I'd say the policing the whole day was v.low key, esp with the element Charlton had there, almost to the point it felt like a set-up.10 -
Does look like a couple of coppers/stewards lay into people on the ground in the video! I’m sure they were just checking for vital signs!Sage said:Be interesting to know how many people with opinions were actually there and saw everything first hand from a matter of meters away. I didn’t get involved but saw everything unfold.
I was there with my partner and we both saw police punch fans and kick fans who were already on the ground, police spraying PAVA without warning and as if it was water or air freshener.
Yes, there were many Charlton fans who reacted in a poor and unacceptable way, but it was started by the Shrewsbury scum who goaded us and tried to get to us first instead of just celebrating their goal, then were allowed to get away with whatever they wanted, and it was carried on by the poor and shameful policing that took place thereafter.
But as others have mentioned, they can say they’ll look into it but they won’t and nothing will happen.
At the end of the day, we were all there to watch the football, support our team and do our best to help the team however we could to get to the final. In a high pressure and tense game that meant a lot, with much at stake, there is always going to be a retaliation when it had carried on from before the game, heading into that section of the crowd clearly aiming to wind many of us up.0
