The influence of the EU on Britain.

seth plum said:

golfaddick said:

seth plum said:

golfaddick said:

I'm sorry @seth plum but I don't get this "own it" mantra that you roll out at every turn. what & how am I suppose to "own it". wear a sack cloth with the word "I'm a Brexiter....kick me" on it. The electorate voted in a referendum & the result was that we leave the EU. The rest is now down to the UK Government. I have no more power or "ownership" over what happens next than I do over Philip Hammond raising income tax. The only democratic way of changing anything is every 5 years at the ballot box. Pressure can be put on the powers that be by protesting but the only major policy u-turn I have witnessed in the past 40 years has been the via the Poll Tax riots.

I might be mistaken, but I think you picked up the term 'own it' and ran with it a few pages ago, that you were indeed prepared to 'own it'.
The main thrust of my position is about those who voted brexit wanting to blame others for this nightmare, there is a lot of hand washing going on.
Brexit voters have created these conditions.
Interestingly you say the only democratic way of changing anything is every five years at the ballot box.
I wish.
It is rammed down our throats that the referendum vote was the 'democratic' will of the people, and it is a forever thing, not an every five year thing.
Maybe brave people should wear a sign that says 'I'm a brexiter...praise me, thank me'.
It is easy to find new and varied ways to avoid facing up to what brexiteers should actually do next, indeed your complaint about my mantra is another example.
Much better that you wear a sackcloth with a practical and workable solution to the Irish border written on it.

Once again you ask me to find an answer to the Irish border problem. Its not my problem to solve I'm not in the government - they are the ones we have elected to do our bidding for us.

I gave my answer to this a few days ago. Make it a hard border......sod the GFA. How it is done is, again, not my problem. I am not into security, border control, logistics, immigration etc etc...... am a financial adviser & have been for 30 years. I was given the chance to vote 1 of 2 ways.I votrd to leave the EU. how excatly that is done is down to others. When I board a plane to fly to Spain I don't exoect the pilot to ask all 200 passengers how they expect to get there & by the way, do they know the route. I have paid the airline to get me from A to B & assume that before offering a flight that they at least know the route & how to fly a plane.

sorry...my last post on this as we seem to be going round in circles & frankly I've had enough.

It's not my problem and anyway you intend to bail out of the debate.
Hmmmn.
2% of the ,Northern Irish population were either killed and injured during the modern troubles, and the ripple effect went everywhere. The people we elected to deal with it brokered peace.
Now you say sod the GFA.
So you want your elected representatives to sort brexit, yet say sod it to the GFA which was sorted by your elected representatives.
I think the term is 'cakeist'.
No wonder you want to exit this discussion.
Perhaps you might be one of the first to admit you didn't have a clue what you voted for.

Well done Mt Seth..add him to SWaddick, stonemuse, Dipps, ValiantPhil and many others. Thats some size of Halo above your head. Hope you did not handshake with them either.

seth plum said:

Chippycafc said:

seth plum said:

golfaddick said:

seth plum said:

golfaddick said:

I'm sorry @seth plum but I don't get this "own it" mantra that you roll out at every turn. what & how am I suppose to "own it". wear a sack cloth with the word "I'm a Brexiter....kick me" on it. The electorate voted in a referendum & the result was that we leave the EU. The rest is now down to the UK Government. I have no more power or "ownership" over what happens next than I do over Philip Hammond raising income tax. The only democratic way of changing anything is every 5 years at the ballot box. Pressure can be put on the powers that be by protesting but the only major policy u-turn I have witnessed in the past 40 years has been the via the Poll Tax riots.

I might be mistaken, but I think you picked up the term 'own it' and ran with it a few pages ago, that you were indeed prepared to 'own it'.
The main thrust of my position is about those who voted brexit wanting to blame others for this nightmare, there is a lot of hand washing going on.
Brexit voters have created these conditions.
Interestingly you say the only democratic way of changing anything is every five years at the ballot box.
I wish.
It is rammed down our throats that the referendum vote was the 'democratic' will of the people, and it is a forever thing, not an every five year thing.
Maybe brave people should wear a sign that says 'I'm a brexiter...praise me, thank me'.
It is easy to find new and varied ways to avoid facing up to what brexiteers should actually do next, indeed your complaint about my mantra is another example.
Much better that you wear a sackcloth with a practical and workable solution to the Irish border written on it.

Once again you ask me to find an answer to the Irish border problem. Its not my problem to solve I'm not in the government - they are the ones we have elected to do our bidding for us.

I gave my answer to this a few days ago. Make it a hard border......sod the GFA. How it is done is, again, not my problem. I am not into security, border control, logistics, immigration etc etc...... am a financial adviser & have been for 30 years. I was given the chance to vote 1 of 2 ways.I votrd to leave the EU. how excatly that is done is down to others. When I board a plane to fly to Spain I don't exoect the pilot to ask all 200 passengers how they expect to get there & by the way, do they know the route. I have paid the airline to get me from A to B & assume that before offering a flight that they at least know the route & how to fly a plane.

sorry...my last post on this as we seem to be going round in circles & frankly I've had enough.

It's not my problem and anyway you intend to bail out of the debate.
Hmmmn.
2% of the ,Northern Irish population were either killed and injured during the modern troubles, and the ripple effect went everywhere. The people we elected to deal with it brokered peace.
Now you say sod the GFA.
So you want your elected representatives to sort brexit, yet say sod it to the GFA which was sorted by your elected representatives.
I think the term is 'cakeist'.
No wonder you want to exit this discussion.
Perhaps you might be one of the first to admit you didn't have a clue what you voted for.

Well done Mt Seth..add him to SWaddick, stonemuse, Dipps, ValiantPhil and many others. Thats some size of Halo above your head. Hope you did not handshake with them either.

I am not a mountain, but I'm working on it.

Good for you...but there is one you wont get rid off.

seth plum said:

Do you mean a ride off or rid of?

How you get away with it, when last year i got flagged 8 times against one guy who thought he was too clever for himself and took liberties, i gave him slack and he kept pulling. we have one thing in common though both our posts are meant to be funny...I assume you don't aim to be serious.

When more people want another vote than not, how do we ensure we uphold the will of the people: by giving the majority their wish to hold a vote, or by denying them?

golfaddick said:

sorry, but you made me bite.

imo the IRA won & looks like they will win the brexit negitations too. brilliant...well done.

did you know that the Sien Fein MEP leader was serving a 16 years jail term when she was released as part if the GFA. didn't serve her jail term, just walked out free as a bird. Yes, it worked both ways but I didn't think you could stand as an MP is you're a convicted fellon....different for the EU parliament I suppose....

probably the reason why I don't give 2 shits about Ireland.

Nor do you seem too bothered about the UK, as a hard border (and other detrimental effects of Brexit) look increasingly likely to break up the UK.

Isn't the continued existence of the UK important to you?

blackpool72 said:

Chizz said:

blackpool72 said:

seth plum said:

blackpool72 said:

seth plum said:

blackpool72 said:

seth plum said:

UKIP wasn't an option in the referendum.

I never said it was.
The fact is that the pricks in parliament ain't up to the job.
That is down to whoever voted for them.
And it wasn't me

And 'the job' is down to anybody who voted brexit.
And it wasn't me.

But you have voted Labour or liberal in the past so does that mean all their f#$#ups are down to you.

Bollocks have I ever voted Liberal. How very dare you!
When there are general elections, you get another one a few years later and f**k ups can be addressed.
Brexit is for all time.

Sorry if I accused you of voting liberal.
You are correct election 's happen every 4 or 5 years.
As for Brexit being for all time I would suggest only if it's successful.
Which in the long term I believe it will be.
If not I am sure there will be another vote in years to come.

It's already unsuccessful

Hasn't even happened yet

Exactly

golfaddick said:

sorry, but you made me bite.

imo the IRA won & looks like they will win the brexit negitations too. brilliant...well done.

did you know that the Sien Fein MEP leader was serving a 16 years jail term when she was released as part if the GFA. didn't serve her jail term, just walked out free as a bird. Yes, it worked both ways but I didn't think you could stand as an MP is you're a convicted fellon....different for the EU parliament I suppose....

probably the reason why I don't give 2 shits about Ireland.

Should I mention Bobby Sands MP?

For what it's worth, despite my loathing of Sinn Fein and the Provisional IRA, I must make clear that their messages in the run up to the Referendum were anti-Brexit. Nothing that they have said or done since suggests that they believe that they were on the winning side of the plebiscite.

It was the dissident Republican groups that encouraged their supporters to vote for Brexit, because they wanted precisely the sort of difficulties and divisions that the Referendum has helped engender to happen.

However, despite losing, Sinn Fein are endeavouring to make the maximum possible capital out of the political landscape as it exists now. Sinn Fein are benefitting politically from the Brexit vote, partly because of their anti-Brexit stance, but also because of the Conservative alliance with the DUP.

The real genius of the Good Friday Agreement was that it allowed competing nationalist ideologies co-exist in a confined space without each feeling threatened by the other, and even create a shared identity. Both sides could claim a win, and could say that the future of Northern Ireland was in line with their vision.

What Brexit and the Conservative Party's political contortions have done is fundamentally, and perhaps fatally, undermined the one political achievement (however flawed it may be) that has underpinned 20 years of (mostly) peace in Northern Ireland and for the rest of the UK.

If you don't care at all about Ireland, does that include Northern Ireland? Because if it does, surely, you then don't care about the Union, or at least would be happy to see Northern Ireland be removed from the UK (in which case, you may have more in common with Martina Anderson than you'd care to admit).

Callumcafc said:

https://twitter.com/luchinlucho/status/1010199639885217793

and in return you get free healthcare from day one, benefit subsidised housing & one of the most diverse & multi-culteral societies. See of you get that in Turkey, Albania or Greece.

Another reason the Daily Mail is not worth the paper it's printed on is the header. Imbeciles.